Mariota or Winston?

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What will Lovie do with #1 Pick?

Jameis Winston
62
50%
Marcus Mariota
27
22%
No preference as long as it's MM or JW
16
13%
Defensive Line
2
2%
Offensive Line
3
2%
Other
1
1%
Trade Down
13
10%
 
Total votes : 124

Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Ken Carson » Mon May 04, 2015 12:22 pm

A Man's Part wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Agreed,

That whole conversation in this thread about FSU's O-line was basically all the Winston-haters making claim that the FSU O-line was some dominant force in '14 due to them having so many players (potentially) drafted. Meanwhile people that actually watched FSU play (Ken, Delt, myself, among others) attempted to point out that their O-line wasn't what his haters were making them out to be and that their performance was average. Which is why Winstons' sack #s went up along w/ FSU's rushing attack went from like 20th in the nation in '13 all the way down to somewhere in the 80's in '14.

When we made such a claim we were all labeled Winston-homers. Glad to see NFL evaluators validate our claim. Outside of Cam Erving, who we all agree is stud O-lineman NO OTHER FSU offensive player was drafted before Tre Jackson in the mid 4th round.

Jose Matuis (the other OG supposedly being drafted day 2 went completely undrafted)
Bobby Hart was a 7th rounder
Karlos Williams was a 5th (same Karlos Williams that lost his starting job late in the season to TFROSH Talvin Cook)
Rashad Greene was a 5th and Nick Oleary was a 6th.

Hopefully we can put to bed the '14 FSU offense was loaded w/ talent around Jameis' narrative'

FWIW, based on draft position it could be argued that the Gators had the better O-line in '14.


Are you really claiming vindication because 80% of his line got drafted for the NFL?

That would be a pretty good O-Line for college.

If you use the C who was drafted last year, it was all 5 from the championship team. However, they also weren't the 2002 Miami Hurricanes either...
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby DreadNaught » Mon May 04, 2015 1:03 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
A Man's Part wrote:
Are you really claiming vindication because 80% of his line got drafted for the NFL?

That would be a pretty good O-Line for college.

If you use the C who was drafted last year, it was all 5 from the championship team. However, they also weren't the 2002 Miami Hurricanes either...


Jose Matias was not drafted, although he has signed as an UDFA w/ the Titans. So 4/5 of '13 starting O-line was drafted, although all 5 are on NFL rosters.

AMP - Not at all, If you read though the part of this thread where the Winston's critics tore him down due to stats regressing from '13 to '14 and see some of statements made about how great their O-line and skill positions were based on where those guy were projected to be drafted than you'd understand the reasoning behind myself and Delt revisiting this topic.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby A Man's Part » Mon May 04, 2015 2:05 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:If you use the C who was drafted last year, it was all 5 from the championship team. However, they also weren't the 2002 Miami Hurricanes either...


Jose Matias was not drafted, although he has signed as an UDFA w/ the Titans. So 4/5 of '13 starting O-line was drafted, although all 5 are on NFL rosters.

AMP - Not at all, If you read though the part of this thread where the Winston's critics tore him down due to stats regressing from '13 to '14 and see some of statements made about how great their O-line and skill positions were based on where those guy were projected to be drafted than you'd understand the reasoning behind myself and Delt revisiting this topic.



I'm going to be honest..I misread your post and didn't realize you weren't just listing O-Lineman until I read it more closely the second time around(just barely).

Um.. Lol.. I guess.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby DreadNaught » Mon May 04, 2015 2:32 pm

A Man's Part wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Jose Matias was not drafted, although he has signed as an UDFA w/ the Titans. So 4/5 of '13 starting O-line was drafted, although all 5 are on NFL rosters.

AMP - Not at all, If you read though the part of this thread where the Winston's critics tore him down due to stats regressing from '13 to '14 and see some of statements made about how great their O-line and skill positions were based on where those guy were projected to be drafted than you'd understand the reasoning behind myself and Delt revisiting this topic.



I'm going to be honest..I misread your post and didn't realize you weren't just listing O-Lineman until I read it more closely the second time around(just barely).

Um.. Lol.. I guess.


I can see how it could come across w/ out the context of the specific discussion from earlier in this thread. I'm not trying to say FSU was depleted of talent or that those guys were bad players. Obviously them even being drafted means that they are talented.

The point was made (about 50 pages back?) regarding Winston's play 'regressing' (and by "play", I mean STATS), so naturally the 2 sides embarked in a discussion as to why. During that discussion there were some pretty preposterous claims made regarding the greatness of the rest of FSU's offense while refusing to acknowledge any slip in performance from the previous year. Basically saying Winston was just a worse QB and clearly regressing as a QB b/c his stats were not as good and he was surrounded by a bunch of Day 1-2 picks. In reality he was surrounded by only 1 player drafted in the top 3 rounds (Erving), and before moving him from LT to C, that O-line performed below average.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby PrimeMinister » Mon May 04, 2015 2:43 pm

bucfanclw wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Is the draft even losing ratings? Don't correlate players not attending with ratings going down. That hasn't happened. Will it? Who knows. Why do people watch? To see if 1 of 30 prospects in attendance get drafted by their favorite team or just to keep watch and stay up to date on who their team takes.

Ratings down 25% from last year. If the trend keeps heading this way I'd be surprised if they didn't just get rid of the big stage production.


I doubt it. Not when you have 200,000+ people attending the draft and claiming it to be a better experience than other years. The NFL is turning draft weekend into a festival.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Doctor » Tue May 05, 2015 2:16 am

DreadNaught wrote:
A Man's Part wrote:

I'm going to be honest..I misread your post and didn't realize you weren't just listing O-Lineman until I read it more closely the second time around(just barely).

Um.. Lol.. I guess.


I can see how it could come across w/ out the context of the specific discussion from earlier in this thread. I'm not trying to say FSU was depleted of talent or that those guys were bad players. Obviously them even being drafted means that they are talented.

The point was made (about 50 pages back?) regarding Winston's play 'regressing' (and by "play", I mean STATS), so naturally the 2 sides embarked in a discussion as to why. During that discussion there were some pretty preposterous claims made regarding the greatness of the rest of FSU's offense while refusing to acknowledge any slip in performance from the previous year. Basically saying Winston was just a worse QB and clearly regressing as a QB b/c his stats were not as good and he was surrounded by a bunch of Day 1-2 picks. In reality he was surrounded by only 1 player drafted in the top 3 rounds (Erving), and before moving him from LT to C, that O-line performed below average.

I hope you're right. That would be even better news because he's not going to have a great OL here...
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby real bucs fan » Tue May 05, 2015 7:45 am

Kinda funny this is being brought back up as an "I told you so", when in fact FSU just set a record for players drafted, no?
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Buc2 » Tue May 05, 2015 7:56 am

real bucs fan wrote:Kinda funny this is being brought back up as an "I told you so", when in fact FSU just set a record for players drafted, no?


A record for players drafted over the last 3 years, yes.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby deltbucs » Tue May 05, 2015 8:24 am

real bucs fan wrote:Kinda funny this is being brought back up as an "I told you so", when in fact FSU just set a record for players drafted, no?

Kinda funny how you claimed that FSU's OL was "great" last season.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Jonny » Tue May 05, 2015 8:33 am

All FSU O-linemen got drafted yes, but considering how good Jimbo is at recruiting, it is possible they were drafted for their athleticism more and technique less. It is somewhat similar to Cyrus Kouandjio from Bama getting drafted in high 2nd last year. But the tape on him was bad. All in all for what ever reason, FSU had a bad O-line last year (pass protection). We got to see some dumb interceptions and many outstanding plays by Jameis as a result.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Ken Carson » Tue May 05, 2015 8:33 am

real bucs fan wrote:Kinda funny this is being brought back up as an "I told you so", when in fact FSU just set a record for players drafted, no?


Some silly things were said on both sides of this debate. Hyperbole reigned. Some who didn't like Winston inflated the value of his supporting cast, while others diminished them. And a look at the draft shows that it was somewhere in between.

FSU had one offensive player not named Jameis taken in the first 110 picks. His best offensive weapon was taken in the 5th round after household names like Ty Montgomery, Justin Hardy, and Vince Mayle.

The University of Miami had the first OL, WR, RB, and TE taken.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby StillCSG » Tue May 05, 2015 8:36 am

Jonny wrote:All FSU O-linemen got drafted yes, but considering how good Jimbo is at recruiting, it is possible they were drafted for their athleticism more and technique less. It is somewhat similar to Cyrus Kouandjio from Bama getting drafted in high 2nd last year. But the tape on him was bad. All in all for what ever reason, FSU had a bad O-line last year (pass protection). We got to see some dumb interceptions and many outstanding plays by Jameis as a result.


Actually they didn't all get drafted..but it will get glossed over
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby deltbucs » Tue May 05, 2015 8:56 am

Ken Carson wrote:The University of Miami had the first OL, WR, RB, and TE taken.

And UF have more OL drafted than FSU. According to RBF I believe that makes them better than great.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby DreadNaught » Tue May 05, 2015 9:13 am

deltbucs wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:The University of Miami had the first OL, WR, RB, and TE taken.

And UF have more OL drafted than FSU. According to RBF I believe that makes them better than great.


Not only more, but earlier also.

Quick derail, How terrible were Jeff Driskel and Will Muschamp as a QB-HC combo???

I know our WR were bad, but Debose was still drafted (7th) along w/ 4 guys on the O-line (Humphries/1st-Green/3rd-Garcia/4th-Brown/7th) and a 3rd round RB (Matt Jones). Not to mention we had Freddy T jr also.

It could be argued that UF had a better supporting cast on offense than FSU last year from a talent perspective. I strongly believe UF had a better defense than FSU last season. But since FSU had Winston at QB, they had another undefeated regular season and won the Conference, while UF sucked balls again.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby real bucs fan » Tue May 05, 2015 10:46 am

deltbucs wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:The University of Miami had the first OL, WR, RB, and TE taken.

And UF have more OL drafted than FSU. According to RBF I believe that makes them better than great.

You're an idiot.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby StillCSG » Tue May 05, 2015 10:53 am

real bucs fan wrote:
deltbucs wrote:And UF have more OL drafted than FSU. According to RBF I believe that makes them better than great.

You're an idiot.


Hey your the dipshit that claimed the group Winston had around him was great...if they FSU's talent was so great it must make UF's all world
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby real bucs fan » Tue May 05, 2015 10:59 am

StillCSG wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:You're an idiot.


Hey your the dipshit that claimed the group Winston had around him was great...if they FSU's talent was so great it must make UF's all world

His supporting cast WAS great, especially during his Heisman year. It's not even worth arguing, but not only that, you guys are bumping this up as an I told you so after FSU just broke a record for players drafted. Fuckin moron moves mate.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby bucfanclw » Tue May 05, 2015 11:10 am

DreadNaught wrote:
deltbucs wrote:And UF have more OL drafted than FSU. According to RBF I believe that makes them better than great.


Not only more, but earlier also.

Quick derail, How terrible were Jeff Driskel and Will Muschamp as a QB-HC combo???

I know our WR were bad, but Debose was still drafted (7th) along w/ 4 guys on the O-line (Humphries/1st-Green/3rd-Garcia/4th-Brown/7th) and a 3rd round RB (Matt Jones). Not to mention we had Freddy T jr also.

It could be argued that UF had a better supporting cast on offense than FSU last year from a talent perspective. I strongly believe UF had a better defense than FSU last season. But since FSU had Winston at QB, they had another undefeated regular season and won the Conference, while UF sucked balls again.

UF was definitely better in the trenches on both sides of the ball. It was out skill positions (Looking at you Driskel) that completely let us down. The D just went into a "safe" zone opening up some running lanes for FSU and Winston took advantage of some wide open receivers to win the game.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby deltbucs » Tue May 05, 2015 11:11 am

real bucs fan wrote:
StillCSG wrote:
Hey your the dipshit that claimed the group Winston had around him was great...if they FSU's talent was so great it must make UF's all world

His supporting cast WAS great, especially during his Heisman year. It's not even worth arguing, but not only that, you guys are bumping this up as an I told you so after FSU just broke a record for players drafted. Fuckin moron moves mate.

I know following along with the discussion is tough for you, this whole discussion was about why he regressed last season. You said that his OL dropped from elite his freshman year to great last year. We tried to tell you that you didn't know what you were talking about when calling last year's OL great.
And I'm not sure why you're bringing up players that were drafted 3 years ago. It's crazy how lost you seem to get in a pretty simple discussion.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby deltbucs » Tue May 05, 2015 11:12 am

bucfanclw wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Not only more, but earlier also.

Quick derail, How terrible were Jeff Driskel and Will Muschamp as a QB-HC combo???

I know our WR were bad, but Debose was still drafted (7th) along w/ 4 guys on the O-line (Humphries/1st-Green/3rd-Garcia/4th-Brown/7th) and a 3rd round RB (Matt Jones). Not to mention we had Freddy T jr also.

It could be argued that UF had a better supporting cast on offense than FSU last year from a talent perspective. I strongly believe UF had a better defense than FSU last season. But since FSU had Winston at QB, they had another undefeated regular season and won the Conference, while UF sucked balls again.

UF was definitely better in the trenches on both sides of the ball. It was out skill positions (Looking at you Driskel) that completely let us down. The D just went into a "safe" zone opening up some running lanes for FSU and Winston took advantage of some wide open receivers to win the game.

Definitely agree that UF was better in the trenches. FSU couldn't find a pass rush all season and struggled against the run.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby SDBucs » Tue May 05, 2015 11:38 am

Honestly I think draft ratings fell for the length between picks and lack of content during this time to make up for it. At least on ESPN, all I heard was constant babbling and OPINIONS on players instead of showing tape and actually pinpointing strengths/weaknesses. They may have spent 1 minute doing that in comparison to 5-6 just talking to fill time. When teams are putting in picks 3 minutes in and its taking 7 more to actually announce the pick it gets rather old and takes much too long.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue May 05, 2015 1:00 pm

SDBucs wrote:Honestly I think draft ratings fell for the length between picks and lack of content during this time to make up for it. At least on ESPN, all I heard was constant babbling and OPINIONS on players instead of showing tape and actually pinpointing strengths/weaknesses. They may have spent 1 minute doing that in comparison to 5-6 just talking to fill time. When teams are putting in picks 3 minutes in and its taking 7 more to actually announce the pick it gets rather old and takes much too long.


I wish I would have watched it on NFLN. Maybe they would have done more analysis of each pick/player.

I read somewhere that one of the ESPN draft heads critiqued their coverage and stated that there was too little analysis on how a player FIT with their respective team. He felt he and others should have focused more on that but felt they were running out of time and could not get it all in.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby DreadNaught » Tue May 05, 2015 4:27 pm

The user stats pertaining to this thread are interesting. I have over 250 posts in this thread alone.

I think RBF is the walk away winner w/ over 350, nearly half of his total.

I only checked the users on this page though...
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue May 05, 2015 5:21 pm

DreadNaught wrote:The user stats pertaining to this thread are interesting. I have over 250 posts in this thread alone.

I think RBF is the walk away winner w/ over 350, nearly half of his total.

I only checked the users on this page though...


I think Sanka or WinstonMagic (and his other personalities) may have caghut up to RBF by draft day.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby UMiamiBucFan » Tue May 05, 2015 8:23 pm

Ken Carson wrote:The University of Miami had the first OL, WR, RB, and TE taken.


+ Al Golden = 6-7.

Thanks Ken, I'm gonna go cry for a bit.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Ken Carson » Tue May 05, 2015 8:40 pm

UMiamiBucFan wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:The University of Miami had the first OL, WR, RB, and TE taken.


+ Al Golden = 6-7.

Thanks Ken, I'm gonna go cry for a bit.

Shocked he wasn't fired by Sunday morning.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby UMiamiBucFan » Tue May 05, 2015 11:00 pm

Unlikely to happen any time soon. Miami just hired a former Mexican government official as President. I'm willing to bet he doesn't give a crap about athletics, especially American football.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby deltbucs » Wed May 06, 2015 8:29 am

UMiamiBucFan wrote:Unlikely to happen any time soon. Miami just hired a former Mexican government official as President. I'm willing to bet he doesn't give a crap about athletics, especially American football.

Well...The soccer program should be improving. So there's that.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby DreadNaught » Wed May 06, 2015 8:45 am

UMiamiBucFan wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:The University of Miami had the first OL, WR, RB, and TE taken.


+ Al Golden = 6-7.

Thanks Ken, I'm gonna go cry for a bit.


We can cry together;

The Gators has the most players drafted of any SEC team w/ 8. Yet we have gone 4-8 and 7-5 the past 2 seasons...

Atleast we fired out coach though. Muschamp is a great example of the Peter Principle in CFB.
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Re: Mariota or Winston?

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:07 pm

Bump in honor of the most long winded, polarizing debate in this boards history. Almost as infamous as the Darrelle Revis discussion on the old board.
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