If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

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post

Pick one

Lewis
0
No votes
Higgins
0
No votes
Adams
0
No votes
Okwara
0
No votes
Herbert
6
32%
Wirfs
5
26%
Simmons
1
5%
Delpit
3
16%
Kinlaw
1
5%
Fulton
0
No votes
Eason
2
11%
Gross-Matos
0
No votes
Terrell
0
No votes
Chaisson
1
5%
McKinney
0
No votes
Weaver
0
No votes
Ruggs III
0
No votes
Epenesa
0
No votes
Baun
0
No votes
Lamb
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 19

Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby Deja Entendu » Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:21 pm

Cheb wrote:Getting the quarterback situation right is going to define our team this upcoming year. While having a first round deep safety or a right tackle or a guy to contribute to the front seven would undoubtedly help our team, the biggest deciding factor for our team success will be whether we have a stud or a dud taking snaps every game. With our first round pick, we can change the direction of our team drastically.

In this scenario with me as presumptive GM, Winston has already left for greener pastures, and I have a capable but unsexy veteran on the payroll. I need a new quarterback in the draft. Maybe my shiny rookie will play this season, maybe he'll redshirt for part of or the entirety of next year. Let the best man win in camp and go forward from there.

With these available prospects in this scenario, my quarterback decision therefore comes down to Herbert versus Eason. That makes sense; both Burrow and Tua will be long-gone. As I wrote this post, Jake Fromm just declared for the draft, but there are (rightful) concerns about his abilities as a deep passer in a system such as ours that values the deep ball.

Anyways, back to Herbert and Eason. Both are long-limbed and strong-armed pocket passers from the PAC-10. Both can make plays with their legs, but they are first and foremost passers. Both benefited from being in strong programs and from being in a conference where defensive play can at times come a distant second behind offense.

You can make arguments back and forth for liking one over the other. Here's one I'd like to present to the jury:

Given that both of these quarterbacks played in the same conference, they have quite a few common opponents. For one, they played against each other this season, dueling for a combined seven passing touchdowns and zero turnovers in a 35-31 shootout that the Ducks ultimately won.

But more generally, this year both quarterbacks played against Utah, Oregon State, Arizona, Colorado, USC, Cal, and Stanford. Let's take a look at how they fared against common opponents:

Quarterback A threw 131 pass completions on 232 attempts, with a completion percentage of 56%. He threw for 1488 yards, eight touchdowns, and seven interceptions. His record over that time was 3-4.

Quarterback B threw 130 pass completions on 199 attempts, with a completion percentage of 65%. He threw for 1659 yards, fifteen touchdowns, and three interceptions. His record over that time was 7-0.

Looking at these numbers, there's an obvious winner and an obvious loser. Quarterback B was dominant over Quarterback A; he threw for the same amount of completions on fewer attempts for a higher completion percentage, almost 200 more yards, nearly twice the touchdowns, less than half the interceptions, and won every game.

So, which quarterback was Quarterback B, the obviously better of the two players when comparing common opponents?

Spoiler:
Image


Welcome to Tampa young man.


This was a great post.

Ken, I’m curious your thoughts on this as the resident Eason drum banger.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby Deja Entendu » Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:23 pm

As for the OP, I went with Herbert assuming we still need a QB.

If anything happens during FA to change that very immediate need, I’ll have more time to decide between Wirfs or Simmons.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby Jason Bourne » Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:57 pm

Herbs. But I think J miss is here next here
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby mdb1958 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:03 pm

I'll take the guy that can throw for 9 TD's with no defense.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby GrownishBF » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:09 pm

Arians and especially Licht can't afford to let 2020 rest on the shoulders of a rookie QB, no matter how talented he is in college. Taking Herbert prevents us from adding to the defense or the Oline which desperately needs talent. I don't see us taking a QB early this year.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:14 pm

GrownishBF wrote:Arians and especially Licht can't afford to let 2020 rest on the shoulders of a rookie QB, no matter how talented he is in college. Taking Herbert prevents us from adding to the defense or the Oline which desperately needs talent. I don't see us taking a QB early this year.

Herbert certainly isn't ready to play next year, but I don't think rational people belive we will be superbowl contenders next year either.

I don't want Herbert, but he'd be picked to sit behind someone (maybe Jameis or a FA). Unless Jameis gets a long term deal, I'd expect us to take a QB in the first 3 rounds.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby Ken Carson » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:26 pm

Deja Entendu wrote:
Cheb wrote:Getting the quarterback situation right is going to define our team this upcoming year. While having a first round deep safety or a right tackle or a guy to contribute to the front seven would undoubtedly help our team, the biggest deciding factor for our team success will be whether we have a stud or a dud taking snaps every game. With our first round pick, we can change the direction of our team drastically.

In this scenario with me as presumptive GM, Winston has already left for greener pastures, and I have a capable but unsexy veteran on the payroll. I need a new quarterback in the draft. Maybe my shiny rookie will play this season, maybe he'll redshirt for part of or the entirety of next year. Let the best man win in camp and go forward from there.

With these available prospects in this scenario, my quarterback decision therefore comes down to Herbert versus Eason. That makes sense; both Burrow and Tua will be long-gone. As I wrote this post, Jake Fromm just declared for the draft, but there are (rightful) concerns about his abilities as a deep passer in a system such as ours that values the deep ball.

Anyways, back to Herbert and Eason. Both are long-limbed and strong-armed pocket passers from the PAC-10. Both can make plays with their legs, but they are first and foremost passers. Both benefited from being in strong programs and from being in a conference where defensive play can at times come a distant second behind offense.

You can make arguments back and forth for liking one over the other. Here's one I'd like to present to the jury:

Given that both of these quarterbacks played in the same conference, they have quite a few common opponents. For one, they played against each other this season, dueling for a combined seven passing touchdowns and zero turnovers in a 35-31 shootout that the Ducks ultimately won.

But more generally, this year both quarterbacks played against Utah, Oregon State, Arizona, Colorado, USC, Cal, and Stanford. Let's take a look at how they fared against common opponents:

Quarterback A threw 131 pass completions on 232 attempts, with a completion percentage of 56%. He threw for 1488 yards, eight touchdowns, and seven interceptions. His record over that time was 3-4.

Quarterback B threw 130 pass completions on 199 attempts, with a completion percentage of 65%. He threw for 1659 yards, fifteen touchdowns, and three interceptions. His record over that time was 7-0.

Looking at these numbers, there's an obvious winner and an obvious loser. Quarterback B was dominant over Quarterback A; he threw for the same amount of completions on fewer attempts for a higher completion percentage, almost 200 more yards, nearly twice the touchdowns, less than half the interceptions, and won every game.

So, which quarterback was Quarterback B, the obviously better of the two players when comparing common opponents?

Spoiler:
Image


Welcome to Tampa young man.


This was a great post.

Ken, I’m curious your thoughts on this as the resident Eason drum banger.

Sure, I’ll mount a defense.

It’s fair to compare the players performances in those games, but stats only tell you so much. Then again, one might point out that against Utah, the best defense in the conference, Eason threw for 4 TDS and over 300 yards while Herbert was 16/26 for 193 and one TD. A couple of second half picks ruined Eason’s day, though.

Furthermore, Herbert was a 4-year starter at Oregon, while Eason was playing his first year at Washington. That Herbert played well against well-known opponents in which his team had a general athlete advantage isn’t necessarily impressing me (his game against Wisconsin was the definition of “meh”).

Lastly, I’d point to the systems the two QBs ran. Herbert took basically every snap in the shotgun or pistol and has misdirection of some kind in literally every play. Couple that with the recruiting advantages Oregon has had over the PAC 12 and you should expect video game numbers. Eason has to come by his out of a pro style offense, mostly under center taking pro dropbacks and making pro reads. I love his mature play action game. I’ve seen none of that from Herbert outside of read-option or misdirection fakes from the shotgun.

Finally, when you look at Eason’s release, it’s a clone of Patrick Mahommes. He dips his front hip and rotates through that sucker like a pitcher, and he completes the throw with a live follow through. His delivery is mechanically solid, with good footwork, and he is not just living off of arm talent which is why his bullets are not only accurate but catchable.

I think he is the perfect guy to draft and sit a year learning the offense. Herbert is fine, but like I said, his college production is what I expect a QB at Oregon to do at a minimum. I think he plateaued the last 2 years and that Eason has so much more potential than his one year at Washington showed.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:43 pm

Eason to me is easily the most stereotypical BA QB in this draft, and it really isn’t close. Like with a lot of these guys, 14 is just a touch rich for me. Via a late first trade up? I’m game.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby BacksidePursuit » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:43 pm

The added bonus of Eason is that he could be there in round 2, or with a late round 1 trade up.

Wirfs/Delpit
Eason

Could do worse.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:44 pm

BacksidePursuit wrote:The added bonus of Eason is that he could be there in round 2, or with a late round 1 trade up.

Wirfs/Delpit
Eason

Could do worse.

Delpit then a trade up for Eason means our offensive line likely gets worse next year.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby BacksidePursuit » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:50 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
BacksidePursuit wrote:The added bonus of Eason is that he could be there in round 2, or with a late round 1 trade up.

Wirfs/Delpit
Eason

Could do worse.

Delpit then a trade up for Eason means our offensive line likely gets worse next year.

I think that’s very unlikely. As far as talent goes.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:53 pm

BacksidePursuit wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Delpit then a trade up for Eason means our offensive line likely gets worse next year.

I think that’s very unlikely. As far as talent goes.

I guess if you think a late round pick, UFA, or free agent "X" will be an upgrade day 1 next season.

It also depends what we are trading to move up.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:38 pm

Cappa was solid in his first year starting and showed lots of toughness. But we still need an RT. Wirfs and a late first trade up Qb is perfect since we’d get that 5th year option which is key for these projects. We can sign a vet FS.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby GrownishBF » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:47 pm

real bucs fan wrote:Cappa was solid in his first year starting and showed lots of toughness. But we still need an RT. Wirfs and a late first trade up Qb is perfect since we’d get that 5th year option which is key for these projects. We can sign a vet FS.


What vet FS is hitting free agency?
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:51 pm

GrownishBF wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Cappa was solid in his first year starting and showed lots of toughness. But we still need an RT. Wirfs and a late first trade up Qb is perfect since we’d get that 5th year option which is key for these projects. We can sign a vet FS.


What vet FS is hitting free agency?

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/safety/

Lotta guys and a lotta different directions we could go. Safety's are generally cheap so we should be able to get one.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby Deja Entendu » Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:01 am

Ken Carson wrote:
Deja Entendu wrote:
This was a great post.

Ken, I’m curious your thoughts on this as the resident Eason drum banger.

Sure, I’ll mount a defense.

It’s fair to compare the players performances in those games, but stats only tell you so much. Then again, one might point out that against Utah, the best defense in the conference, Eason threw for 4 TDS and over 300 yards while Herbert was 16/26 for 193 and one TD. A couple of second half picks ruined Eason’s day, though.

Furthermore, Herbert was a 4-year starter at Oregon, while Eason was playing his first year at Washington. That Herbert played well against well-known opponents in which his team had a general athlete advantage isn’t necessarily impressing me (his game against Wisconsin was the definition of “meh”).

Lastly, I’d point to the systems the two QBs ran. Herbert took basically every snap in the shotgun or pistol and has misdirection of some kind in literally every play. Couple that with the recruiting advantages Oregon has had over the PAC 12 and you should expect video game numbers. Eason has to come by his out of a pro style offense, mostly under center taking pro dropbacks and making pro reads. I love his mature play action game. I’ve seen none of that from Herbert outside of read-option or misdirection fakes from the shotgun.

Finally, when you look at Eason’s release, it’s a clone of Patrick Mahommes. He dips his front hip and rotates through that sucker like a pitcher, and he completes the throw with a live follow through. His delivery is mechanically solid, with good footwork, and he is not just living off of arm talent which is why his bullets are not only accurate but catchable.

I think he is the perfect guy to draft and sit a year learning the offense. Herbert is fine, but like I said, his college production is what I expect a QB at Oregon to do at a minimum. I think he plateaued the last 2 years and that Eason has so much more potential than his one year at Washington showed.


I Iike it.

I still haven’t seen much of Eason, but it’s on my list.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby Deuce » Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:30 am

Ken Carson wrote:
Deja Entendu wrote:
This was a great post.

Ken, I’m curious your thoughts on this as the resident Eason drum banger.

Sure, I’ll mount a defense.

It’s fair to compare the players performances in those games, but stats only tell you so much. Then again, one might point out that against Utah, the best defense in the conference, Eason threw for 4 TDS and over 300 yards while Herbert was 16/26 for 193 and one TD. A couple of second half picks ruined Eason’s day, though.

Furthermore, Herbert was a 4-year starter at Oregon, while Eason was playing his first year at Washington. That Herbert played well against well-known opponents in which his team had a general athlete advantage isn’t necessarily impressing me (his game against Wisconsin was the definition of “meh”).

Lastly, I’d point to the systems the two QBs ran. Herbert took basically every snap in the shotgun or pistol and has misdirection of some kind in literally every play. Couple that with the recruiting advantages Oregon has had over the PAC 12 and you should expect video game numbers. Eason has to come by his out of a pro style offense, mostly under center taking pro dropbacks and making pro reads. I love his mature play action game. I’ve seen none of that from Herbert outside of read-option or misdirection fakes from the shotgun.

Finally, when you look at Eason’s release, it’s a clone of Patrick Mahommes. He dips his front hip and rotates through that sucker like a pitcher, and he completes the throw with a live follow through. His delivery is mechanically solid, with good footwork, and he is not just living off of arm talent which is why his bullets are not only accurate but catchable.

I think he is the perfect guy to draft and sit a year learning the offense. Herbert is fine, but like I said, his college production is what I expect a QB at Oregon to do at a minimum. I think he plateaued the last 2 years and that Eason has so much more potential than his one year at Washington showed.


Nice job.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:09 am

Ken Carson wrote:
Deja Entendu wrote:
This was a great post.

Ken, I’m curious your thoughts on this as the resident Eason drum banger.

Sure, I’ll mount a defense.

It’s fair to compare the players performances in those games, but stats only tell you so much. Then again, one might point out that against Utah, the best defense in the conference, Eason threw for 4 TDS and over 300 yards while Herbert was 16/26 for 193 and one TD. A couple of second half picks ruined Eason’s day, though.

Furthermore, Herbert was a 4-year starter at Oregon, while Eason was playing his first year at Washington. That Herbert played well against well-known opponents in which his team had a general athlete advantage isn’t necessarily impressing me (his game against Wisconsin was the definition of “meh”).

Lastly, I’d point to the systems the two QBs ran. Herbert took basically every snap in the shotgun or pistol and has misdirection of some kind in literally every play. Couple that with the recruiting advantages Oregon has had over the PAC 12 and you should expect video game numbers. Eason has to come by his out of a pro style offense, mostly under center taking pro dropbacks and making pro reads. I love his mature play action game. I’ve seen none of that from Herbert outside of read-option or misdirection fakes from the shotgun.

Finally, when you look at Eason’s release, it’s a clone of Patrick Mahommes. He dips his front hip and rotates through that sucker like a pitcher, and he completes the throw with a live follow through. His delivery is mechanically solid, with good footwork, and he is not just living off of arm talent which is why his bullets are not only accurate but catchable.

I think he is the perfect guy to draft and sit a year learning the offense. Herbert is fine, but like I said, his college production is what I expect a QB at Oregon to do at a minimum. I think he plateaued the last 2 years and that Eason has so much more potential than his one year at Washington showed.


great back and forth, Cheb and Ken
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby Teitan » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:42 am

Ken Carson wrote:
Deja Entendu wrote:
This was a great post.

Ken, I’m curious your thoughts on this as the resident Eason drum banger.

Sure, I’ll mount a defense.

It’s fair to compare the players performances in those games, but stats only tell you so much. Then again, one might point out that against Utah, the best defense in the conference, Eason threw for 4 TDS and over 300 yards while Herbert was 16/26 for 193 and one TD. A couple of second half picks ruined Eason’s day, though.



This does not help your argument. This simply displays that Herbert, while he didn’t dominate a great defense, he was able to play mistake free football and ultimately come out with a win. Eason had more scores, yards, etc but his two INT’s led to 9 points for the other team, and a loss.

While that’s one game, and is certainly not a damnation of his body of work, it is very familiar in a Jameis kind of way. Yards, TD’s, INT’s and a loss.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby Ken Carson » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:18 pm

Teitan wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:Sure, I’ll mount a defense.

It’s fair to compare the players performances in those games, but stats only tell you so much. Then again, one might point out that against Utah, the best defense in the conference, Eason threw for 4 TDS and over 300 yards while Herbert was 16/26 for 193 and one TD. A couple of second half picks ruined Eason’s day, though.



This does not help your argument. This simply displays that Herbert, while he didn’t dominate a great defense, he was able to play mistake free football and ultimately come out with a win. Eason had more scores, yards, etc but his two INT’s led to 9 points for the other team, and a loss.

While that’s one game, and is certainly not a damnation of his body of work, it is very familiar in a Jameis kind of way. Yards, TD’s, INT’s and a loss.

You should go back and watch the game. Late in the second quarter up by 4, Huskies go for it on 4th and 1. Eason throws an absolute dime of a touch pass over two trail defenders and his tight end just couldn’t make the play. Instead of going up 7 or 11 the Utes get a field goal to get it within 1.

Second half opening drive, the team is marching down the field and Eason makes a bad throw into coverage. Totally on him, never should have put it up. The other INT that went for a pick six was off a blitz that came from the corner same side as the man he ended up throwing to. Eason threw hot of his back foot, and his receiver ran a regular route. Could be on him, his receiver and likely both.

The other issue was that Washington literally could not move the ball on the ground. 2.4 yards per carry is horrendous, and so Eason was the entirety of the offense. Oregon ran for 5.8 yards per carry and had a guy over 200 yards on his own.

So, again, all stats being equal, sure Herbert was better. But if they switched teams, do you think that Herbert is overcoming 53 total rushing yards by his ground game and throwing 4 TDs from the pocket to keep the game within reach? I sure as hell do not.

You should also watch the second TD Eason threw in this game. That’s the throw Jameis misses every time because he has no touch.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby Ken Carson » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:42 pm

If we are going LSU defender again, give me Chaisson 100 times over Delpit.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:46 pm

Ken Carson wrote:If we are going LSU defender again, give me Chaisson 100 times over Delpit.

Delpit had 1 great great play this game and like 6 horrible and lazy ones.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby Rocker » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:16 pm

Ken Carson wrote:If we are going LSU defender again, give me Chaisson 100 times over Delpit.

This is the way.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:38 pm

Delpit is clearly battling injury and not wanting to get further hurt before the draft.

That said, first round safety is not the way.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby Alpha » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:00 am

So much of this depends on FA.

IF we lose much of our D-line (JPP/Suh), then this will effect our priority at 14.

I think we ALL agree that an upgrade at RT (O-line in general), would be beneficial.

Hell...I could even make a case for drafting a WR (unless Perriman is re-signed).

Same at RB or LB...not to mention QB.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby Alpha » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:03 am

I went with Wirfs, should this scenario play out.

We DESPERATELY need a better o-line. Jameis was sacked what....50 times this year? They'd also make our RB's more effective.

Let's check back in 2 months and see what's, what.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby Konatown » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:29 am

I voted Delpit, only because it just feels like that’s who we’re going to take with Jameis more than likely coming back. Kinda like when we drafted Hargreaves everyone knew that would be the pick.

I wouldn’t hate it, he’d easily be our best Safety and fill a major hole on defense. But we would need to address OT/RB in rounds 2-3 if it does play out like that.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby Deuce » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:38 am

Alpha wrote:We DESPERATELY need a better o-line. Jameis was sacked what....50 times this year? They'd also make our RB's more effective.


I keep seeing people say stuff like this. First off, Jameis was sacked so much, in part, because he holds the ball longer than almost any other QB in the league. Just looking at sacks isn't really an indicator of anything.

Second, I think our o-line is mostly set. Smith isn't going anywhere until next off-season, Marpet and Jensen are entrenched, and I doubt we find an upgrade on Cappa unless we pay out for a pricey FA or draft someone really high.

RT, where Dotson played, is really the one spot where we'll most likely see someone new. I think a 1st round pick would be smart there.

And then of course we have almost no depth.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby Ken Carson » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:48 am

I convinced someone else to go Eason. My work here is done.
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Re: If these random mocks are right, make your pick.

Postby Kress » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:53 am

Konatown wrote:I voted Delpit, only because it just feels like that’s who we’re going to take with Jameis more than likely coming back. Kinda like when we drafted Hargreaves everyone knew that would be the pick.



Kind of like how the obvious pick was for us to take Keuchly.
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