The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:04 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Nelson, Fitzpatrick, Chubb, Barkley, James, Vea, Key, Davenport, Josh Jackson, Ward, Darnold, Mayfield, Roquan Smith, Edmunds to name a few, buddy. And again..


Bootz2004 wrote:I guess this is a bad time to mention that Bosa has come a lot closer to leading the league in sacks that Clowney or Garrett ever have....

Blue chippers? He'll to the naw naw naw


And what's your point? Like usual, you got none.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Cheb » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:26 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Nelson, Fitzpatrick, Chubb, Barkley, James, Vea, Key, Davenport, Josh Jackson, Ward, Darnold, Mayfield, Roquan Smith, Edmunds to name a few, buddy. And again..



Blue chippers? He'll to the naw naw naw


And what's your point? Like usual, you got none.


It's Bootz. He spends 99% of his time telling you how smart he is, and 1% of the time proving that statement. I'm sure that you and everyone else has enough life experience that they have met people similar. Act accordingly.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby MJW » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:28 am

Cheb wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Blue chippers? He'll to the naw naw naw


And what's your point? Like usual, you got none.


It's Bootz. He spends 99% of his time telling you how smart he is, and 1% of the time proving that statement. I'm sure that you and everyone else has enough life experience that they have met people similar. Act accordingly.


I object to the use of the word, "proving." He's smart in the sense that The Dude made a winning argument with, "That's just your opinion, man." That's the extent of Bootz's sophistry.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:04 pm

Cheb wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Blue chippers? He'll to the naw naw naw


And what's your point? Like usual, you got none.


It's Bootz. He spends 99% of his time telling you how smart he is, and 1% of the time proving that statement. I'm sure that you and everyone else has enough life experience that they have met people similar. Act accordingly.


And I don't really need the 1% because you know what I say is true. There's a reason people spend more time attacking me and not my posts, because they know what I'm saying is truth.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bucs N Beers » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:07 pm

You don't usually want to draft a guy in the top 10 and then switch his positions, but Tremaine Edmunds is 6'5" 250-ish and has freakishly long arms. He played his entire career at VT as a LB, but he has above average size and length. Maybe you don't switch him to DE, but if we're possibly looking at moving to 3-4, is he an option?

Edmunds - Lavonte - Kwon - Beckwith
Gholston - Stevie T - GMac

Spence would be in a reserve/rotational role, but I don't know that you can trust him to stay healthy at this point anyway.

Edit: Before I get flamed, I don't really believe that we would do this.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:40 pm

Bucs N Beers wrote:You don't usually want to draft a guy in the top 10 and then switch his positions, but Tremaine Edmunds is 6'5" 250-ish and has freakishly long arms. He played his entire career at VT as a LB, but he has above average size and length. Maybe you don't switch him to DE, but if we're possibly looking at moving to 3-4, is he an option?

Edmunds - Lavonte - Kwon - Beckwith
Gholston - Stevie T - GMac

Spence would be in a reserve/rotational role, but I don't know that you can trust him to stay healthy at this point anyway.

Edit: Before I get flamed, I don't really believe that we would do this.



As a linebacker his tackles stand out, who knows, he could develop into a freak DE.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/pla ... nds-1.html
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby theBKwhopper » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:49 pm

When are we doing the Buczone draft?
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:05 pm

theBKwhopper wrote:When are we doing the Buczone draft?


We'll pick teams next week during the combine then start up the following week.

Then we'll do another post FA sometime in April.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:21 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
theBKwhopper wrote:When are we doing the Buczone draft?


We'll pick teams next week during the combine then start up the following week.

Then we'll do another post FA sometime in April.


I hope the drafts this year go by as quickly and smoothly as they did last year. I'll continue to do pick by pick analysis also except my own.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby pewterpirates » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:29 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
pewterpirates wrote:
This board's perceived top 4 ... or just about every draft expert's board everywhere. But sure...

If you're gonna bitch about something like that, is your top 7 or top 10 all on the same tier? (Hint: no.)


That's not my question. My question is why does it stop at 4? Why is it a "worst case scenario" if we miss out on one of these 4 guys? Why isn't it worst case if we miss out on 2 of them or 3 of them? Or why isn't it "we have to have one of the top 6 or 7 prospects"?? Who decided that these 4 are the only prospects who can help us?

The fact that instead of answering the questions or attempting to answer you chose to cherry pick 1 small aspect of my post only displays how much of a puppet you are. You don't know anything other than what others tell you, like every draft expert(your words).


You're a clown.

Why ISN'T it worst-case if those four were gone? It's pretty clear cut who the top prospects are. Every year, there's a group of top tier prospects, whether it's four or eight or six. Why do you have to "Bootz up" a thread on something so simple?

Also, you didn't answer my question, so...
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby pewterpirates » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:31 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Nelson, Fitzpatrick, Chubb, Barkley, James, Vea, Key, Davenport, Josh Jackson, Ward, Darnold, Mayfield, Roquan Smith, Edmunds to name a few, buddy. And again..


So instead of me just listing the clear-cut top 4 guys, you extended it out to the top 14 or so with the usual names on here that everyone talks about. Riiiiiiight.

You'd put Davenport in the same tier as Nelson????


If we were picking at 10 this year, I'd still say there's four clear-cut blue chip prospects. I'd hope there were 4 QBs taken in the first 9 & then one of them fell to us. But I'd also be looking more realistic at someone else.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Selmon Rules » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:45 pm

Not being the draftnic that many of you are and seeming to get more and more forgetful as I get older, would someone tell me if JJ Watt was projected to be the guy that he has turned out to be?? Specifically, was he supposed to be the guy that is named DPOY or at least in the conversation every year until he gets injured??
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby theBKwhopper » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:48 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
theBKwhopper wrote:When are we doing the Buczone draft?


We'll pick teams next week during the combine then start up the following week.

Then we'll do another post FA sometime in April.

Sweet thanks
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:48 pm

Selmon Rules wrote:Not being the draftnic that many of you are and seeming to get more and more forgetful as I get older, would someone tell me if JJ Watt was projected to be the guy that he has turned out to be?? Specifically, was he supposed to be the guy that is named DPOY or at least in the conversation every year until he gets injured??


No he wasn't. He was seen as a high motor, high effort guy who wouldn't be much of a force off the edge.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Teitan » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:10 pm

This is his draft write up on NFL dot com.

J.J. Watt (DL52)
HT: 6'5" WT: 290LBS.
POSITION: DE
SCHOOL: Wisconsin
ARM LENGTH: 34"
HANDS: 11 1/8"

OVERVIEW
Watt is an ideal fit as a strong side 4-3 defensive end but some may like him more as a 3-4 end. A hard-working, intelligent, relentless player. Uses his hands extremely well to get off blocks both rushing the passer and against the run. Doesn't possesses great initial quickness but closes hard and fast on the quarterback and has enough straight-lined speed to pursue from the backside. Good height, fast hands and great anticipation allow him to bat down a ton of passes. Watt will give you everything he's got and is certainly a first-round selection.

COMBINE RESULTS
40 YARD DASH: 4.84 SEC
BENCH PRESS: 34 REPS
VERTICAL JUMP: 37.0 INCH
BROAD JUMP: 120.0 INCH
3 CONE DRILL: 6.88 SEC
20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.21 SEC

ANALYSIS
STRENGTHS
Watt has a good combination of size and speed. Takes direct routes to the quarterback, uses his hands well to get unblocked and shows a closing burst. Knocks down a lot of passes. Great hand usage against the run as well, keeps blockers off away from his frame and locates the ball-carrier. Outstanding football IQ. Non-stop motor.

WEAKNESSES
Won't consistently get the edge on tackles with his get off or quickness. Plays high at times, can be blown off the ball by the double team, but does fight hard to hold ground. Lacks some lateral mobility both rushing the passer and playing in space. Will occasionally give up outside contain.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Selmon Rules » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:07 pm

Interesting, no??

That's what I thought I remembered but wanted to check.... Would be willing to bet that there have been several DE prospects that have been more highly coveted since he was drafted so while it would be nice to see Chubb fall to #7, it's not the end of the world if he doesn't. Sometimes the high motor guy that's comes later can be the guy you wanted all along I guess....
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:20 pm

Selmon Rules wrote:Interesting, no??

That's what I thought I remembered but wanted to check.... Would be willing to bet that there have been several DE prospects that have been more highly coveted since he was drafted so while it would be nice to see Chubb fall to #7, it's not the end of the world if he doesn't. Sometimes the high motor guy that's comes later can be the guy you wanted all along I guess....


Exactly right. That's what seperates the majority of fans from teams. Teams have access to a ton more information. They send scouts to watch prospects play and during draft season have private workouts. I guarantee you that teams see way more than 4 "blue chip" prospects because there are more than 4. If there was just 4 teams would all be trying to send their entire drafts just so they could get 1 of the 4.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Selmon Rules » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:40 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Selmon Rules wrote:Interesting, no??

That's what I thought I remembered but wanted to check.... Would be willing to bet that there have been several DE prospects that have been more highly coveted since he was drafted so while it would be nice to see Chubb fall to #7, it's not the end of the world if he doesn't. Sometimes the high motor guy that's comes later can be the guy you wanted all along I guess....


Exactly right. That's what seperates the majority of fans from teams. Teams have access to a ton more information. They send scouts to watch prospects play and during draft season have private workouts. I guarantee you that teams see way more than 4 "blue chip" prospects because there are more than 4. If there was just 4 teams would all be trying to send their entire drafts just so they could get 1 of the 4.

I think you're confusing the term "blue chip prospect" with someone who turns out to be a great player despite what he was thought to be as a prospect..... There really aren't that many blue chip prospects in any single draft if you go by the idea that blue chip means can't miss. JJ Watt is an example of someone who wasn't a blue chip prospect that has taken the gifts he was born with and maximizing them. All I'm saying is that someone doesn't have to be a blue chipper to be great.

Joe Montana was not a blue chip prospect and neither was Jerry Rice but I'd say they definitely maximized the talents they had and became blue chip hall of famers....
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:07 pm

Selmon Rules wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Exactly right. That's what seperates the majority of fans from teams. Teams have access to a ton more information. They send scouts to watch prospects play and during draft season have private workouts. I guarantee you that teams see way more than 4 "blue chip" prospects because there are more than 4. If there was just 4 teams would all be trying to send their entire drafts just so they could get 1 of the 4.

I think you're confusing the term "blue chip prospect" with someone who turns out to be a great player despite what he was thought to be as a prospect..... There really aren't that many blue chip prospects in any single draft if you go by the idea that blue chip means can't miss. JJ Watt is an example of someone who wasn't a blue chip prospect that has taken the gifts he was born with and maximizing them. All I'm saying is that someone doesn't have to be a blue chipper to be great.

Joe Montana was not a blue chip prospect and neither was Jerry Rice but I'd say they definitely maximized the talents they had and became blue chip hall of famers....


Well what exactly is a blue chip prospect then? Aaron Curry was a "blue chip prospect". As were Trent Richardson, Morris Claiborne, Greg Robinson, Glenn Dorsey, Darren McFadden. If you can't include the outcome of the players career then really all a blue chip prospect would be is what a person perceives a prospect to be in their opinion. Nothing more.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Brazen331 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:21 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Selmon Rules wrote:I think you're confusing the term "blue chip prospect" with someone who turns out to be a great player despite what he was thought to be as a prospect..... There really aren't that many blue chip prospects in any single draft if you go by the idea that blue chip means can't miss. JJ Watt is an example of someone who wasn't a blue chip prospect that has taken the gifts he was born with and maximizing them. All I'm saying is that someone doesn't have to be a blue chipper to be great.

Joe Montana was not a blue chip prospect and neither was Jerry Rice but I'd say they definitely maximized the talents they had and became blue chip hall of famers....


Well what exactly is a blue chip prospect then? Aaron Curry was a "blue chip prospect". As were Trent Richardson, Morris Claiborne, Greg Robinson, Glenn Dorsey, Darren McFadden. If you can't include the outcome of the players career then really all a blue chip prospect would be is what a person perceives a prospect to be in their opinion. Nothing more.


Blue Chip is more a term used for HS prospects and recruiting, doesn’t really apply at this stage in the game where most players who are considered draftable were once considered blue chippers.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Jason Bourne » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Bucs were awarded a compensatory draft pick today . 7th rd #255 . We now have 8 picks in the draft

https://mobile.twitter.com/TBBuccaneers ... 08/photo/1
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Selmon Rules » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:33 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Selmon Rules wrote:I think you're confusing the term "blue chip prospect" with someone who turns out to be a great player despite what he was thought to be as a prospect..... There really aren't that many blue chip prospects in any single draft if you go by the idea that blue chip means can't miss. JJ Watt is an example of someone who wasn't a blue chip prospect that has taken the gifts he was born with and maximizing them. All I'm saying is that someone doesn't have to be a blue chipper to be great.

Joe Montana was not a blue chip prospect and neither was Jerry Rice but I'd say they definitely maximized the talents they had and became blue chip hall of famers....


Well what exactly is a blue chip prospect then? Aaron Curry was a "blue chip prospect". As were Trent Richardson, Morris Claiborne, Greg Robinson, Glenn Dorsey, Darren McFadden. If you can't include the outcome of the players career then really all a blue chip prospect would be is what a person perceives a prospect to be in their opinion. Nothing more.

Prospect is the part of the term that you are skipping over....

A blue chip prospect is a player that is expected to among the best at his position and no, they don't always pan out that way but that's the expectation they arrive with and are usually picked with a high draft pick. Calling someone a blue chip prospect assumes you will have to spend a very high pick (valuable like a blue poker chip) to get....

If you want to argue about the worth of a prospect being determined after he has completed his career, you're going to have to argue with the wall cause I ain't going there. I didn't crap all over this discussion and don't intend to start now....
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby MJW » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:10 am

I can't really throw stones on this subject, but this is why you don't invade the Southeast Asia that is Bootz and semantics. He doesn't actually try to win with relevant arguments and logic. He simply tries to wear you down with nonsense until you're demoralized and give up.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Selmon Rules » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:52 am

MJW wrote:I can't really throw stones on this subject, but this is why you don't invade the Southeast Asia that is Bootz and semantics. He doesn't actually try to win with relevant arguments and logic. He simply tries to wear you down with nonsense until you're demoralized and give up.

I haven't given up.... I simply refuse to bother if it comes back up....

There is a difference
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby I Are Serious Poster » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:27 pm

I, unfortunately, agree with Bootz. "Blue chip" is an arbitrary as hell term whose definition appears to be all the prospects that are just out of reach of wherever we happen to be picking each year. There is nothing that tells me with any level of certainty that half the picks before us won't be busts. There is nothing that tells me Derwin James, or Denzel Ward, or pick your player aren't as good as those 4 people keep naming.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:42 pm

Brazen331 wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Well what exactly is a blue chip prospect then? Aaron Curry was a "blue chip prospect". As were Trent Richardson, Morris Claiborne, Greg Robinson, Glenn Dorsey, Darren McFadden. If you can't include the outcome of the players career then really all a blue chip prospect would be is what a person perceives a prospect to be in their opinion. Nothing more.


Blue Chip is more a term used for HS prospects and recruiting, doesn’t really apply at this stage in the game where most players who are considered draftable were once considered blue chippers.


I agree with this. To sort of piggy back off of something Selmon said, I have a hard time believing that only 3 or 4 players in this draft have the potential to be the best at their position because again if that were a case teams would throw the kitchen sink at those top picks.


I Are Serious Poster wrote:I, unfortunately, agree with Bootz. "Blue chip" is an arbitrary as hell term whose definition appears to be all the prospects that are just out of reach of wherever we happen to be picking each year. There is nothing that tells me with any level of certainty that half the picks before us won't be busts. There is nothing that tells me Derwin James, or Denzel Ward, or pick your player aren't as good as those 4 people keep naming.


Pretty much as well. 2007 the 2 "blue chip" guys were Calvin Johnson and Joe Thomas. 2010 there was just "1" according to the board, Ndamukong Suh. 2014 there was Clowney, Watkins and Robinson. 2015 we just so happened to have the #1 pick yet many people wanted to trade back because there was no blue chip guy. 2016 Ramsey, Bosa, Elliott, Buckner, Tunsil. Last year every player projected to be picked before 19 was a blue chip guy. It seems like every year whether we pick 3 or 13 fans will say we will "just" miss out on the elite prospects...
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:23 am

Bootz, there's a difference in what people on this board think and what NFL executives think. Most years there are a consensus number of "blue chip prospects", "can't miss players", "top talent in the draft", "generational player"(this gets overplayed more than blue chip IMO) that scouts/GMs/coaches talk about or divulge after the fact. Most of the time these players are freakish athletes that also performed well in college. The whole "you can't teach size, athleticism, etc." usually plays into this. They do bust, but that doesn't retroactively make them a bad prospect after the fact. Darren McFadden was still a crazy good prospect. He checked every box; size, speed, tape, but his NFL career was mediocre at best.

It's true this term is extremely subjective and most paid analyst use it too often, which leads to fans using it more. For this draft it seems to be a consensus from talking heads and fans that there are four players that are can't miss. We haven't had this confirmed from scouts as much, yet, but a large consensus of fans, talking heads, and leaked information portray players like James or Ward to have glaring weaknesses that may be overcome, but are more likely to hinder them. Basically bigger question marks than those top 4 for most. We all have our different version of blue chip and we know what each other means when we say it. Last year I thought only Garrett, Fournette, and Adams were in that class, but there was an argument against each of those players and others had a long list from last years draft. This year, IMO, only Nelson leaves me with no question he will be at least a very good player. Chubb, Fitzpatrick, and Barkley are all really good prospects, but there are aspects to their games or ability that present enough questions that I don't feel they are guaranteed to be great.

edit: It is true that every year fans on this board claim before the draft we will "just miss the top tier talent", then after we pick many will claim we stole one of them like with Howard, VHIII, Evans, etc. It's part of the fun of being fanatical.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby PrimeMinister » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:51 pm

Well said.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby I Are Serious Poster » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:42 pm

I don't remember anyone saying we stole VHIII or Evans. They were content with VHIII in the first after Spence fell to us in the 2nd. Many were happy with Evans, but I don't think people were saying he fell. A quarter of the board was pounding the board for Manziel.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Sammich » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:37 pm

I remember a lot of people (myself included) mad that we passed on Tunsil and Aaron Donald to draft Evans and VH3.
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