The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:13 am

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
He impacted several plays, made a few on his own. For the most part though Georgia went away from him by design. Another day at the office for Minkah.

Was he playing mostly CB or S? When ever I looked for him preplay it seemed that he was lined up outside or in the slot.


Minkah was a boundary CB when Bama was in their base defense. When they went into their dime package he played in the slot. Harrison and Thompson (#14 & #15) were the safeties.

Georgia avoided throwing his direction it looked like.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:17 am

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
He impacted several plays, made a few on his own. For the most part though Georgia went away from him by design. Another day at the office for Minkah.

Was he playing mostly CB or S? When ever I looked for him preplay it seemed that he was lined up outside or in the slot.


That's exactly where he played. Outside in base D, slot in nickel and dime packages. Also played some dime LB on a few plays.

Edit
DreadNaught wrote:Minkah was a boundary CB when Bama was in their base defense. When they went into their dime package he played in the slot. Harrison and Thompson (#14 & #15) were the safeties.

Georgia avoided throwing his direction it looked like.


Yep basically what you said here. After that 1st quarter play where Minkah stopped that receiver from turning up field they didn't test their luck with him anymore.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:33 am

Good to know. Minkah is definitely someone i'm keeping a close eye on over the next few months. Would be perfect if he could have a Jalen Ramsey like pre-draft process and establish himself as a legit CB prospect as opposed to a versatile DB type...
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:39 pm

real bucs fan wrote:Good to know. Minkah is definitely someone i'm keeping a close eye on over the next few months. Would be perfect if he could have a Jalen Ramsey like pre-draft process and establish himself as a legit CB prospect as opposed to a versatile DB type...


I think Minkah will definitely establish himself as a boundary CB1 in the draft process instead of some type of hybrid DB. Like someone asked in another thread earlier this week comparing the value of Ramsey to that of a prospect like Derwin James, a legit CB1 is just so much more valuable in the NFL game which is why them and pass rushers always come off the board quicker when it comes to defensive players.

Minkah is a great athlete in addition to being a phenomenal football player. He'll check all the boxes when it comes to size and speed for a CB1 during the draft process and likely be one of the top 2 non-QBs drafted.

Regardless of what happens with Grimes this offseason, Minkah would be great for the Bucs. I'd still take Chubb over him just because we're hurting more at pass rush imo and if we don't get that corrected we could have a secondary full of players like Minkah and we'd still struggle on defense.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:48 pm

The thing is Minkah as of today is the versatile DB type and not the legit CB. He has a lot of cleaning up to do in his technique. It could go either way IMO.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:02 pm

real bucs fan wrote:The thing is Minkah as of today is the versatile DB type and not the legit CB. He has a lot of cleaning up to do in his technique. It could go either way IMO.


This tells me you haven't seen him play corner much. But before I assume, what about his technique does he need to clean up?
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:24 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:The thing is Minkah as of today is the versatile DB type and not the legit CB. He has a lot of cleaning up to do in his technique. It could go either way IMO.


This tells me you haven't seen him play corner much. But before I assume, what about his technique does he need to clean up?

He doesn't take hand offs from the quarterback?
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:29 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:The thing is Minkah as of today is the versatile DB type and not the legit CB. He has a lot of cleaning up to do in his technique. It could go either way IMO.


This tells me you haven't seen him play corner much. But before I assume, what about his technique does he need to clean up?

When you watch his 2016 tape, the year in which he played CB exclusively, he showed some technique issues. He struggled turning his head and locating the ball when he's running with receivers downfield, and he bit hard on double moves. I recall Smith-Schuster working him last year...
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:39 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
This tells me you haven't seen him play corner much. But before I assume, what about his technique does he need to clean up?

When you watch his 2016 tape, the year in which he played CB exclusively, he showed some technique issues. He struggled turning his head and locating the ball when he's running with receivers downfield, and he bit hard on double moves. I recall Smith-Schuster working him last year...


Look at what JuJu is doing now at the NFL level. Honestly though these must have been extremely isolated incidents. In fact his ability to locate the ball downfield is 1 of the reasons he's rated so high. He isn't a burner but he can run with receivers deep and make plays. And you won't find a young DB that doesn't bite on PA or double moves. Not 1. He's by far the best CB1 in this draft and has a lot less to clean up than the others.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:50 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:When you watch his 2016 tape, the year in which he played CB exclusively, he showed some technique issues. He struggled turning his head and locating the ball when he's running with receivers downfield, and he bit hard on double moves. I recall Smith-Schuster working him last year...


Look at what JuJu is doing now at the NFL level. Honestly though these must have been extremely isolated incidents. In fact his ability to locate the ball downfield is 1 of the reasons he's rated so high. He isn't a burner but he can run with receivers deep and make plays. And you won't find a young DB that doesn't bite on PA or double moves. Not 1. He's by far the best CB1 in this draft and has a lot less to clean up than the others.

I don't doubt he's the best DB in this draft, it's a matter of figuring out where to stack him on the big board. As a CB at least, he's a cut below where Lattimore was last year (I was a big fan) for example. If we're taking a CB at #7, 2 years after taking Hargreaves, he better be special. I'm just not sold yet- but I'm leaving the door open for a Jalen Ramsey type offseason though. It's a reasonable stance. He's in that Arden Key grouping for me, guys I'm taking a wait and see approach with, as their tape is a bit of a mixed bag, but guys who could very well end up very high on my big board.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:24 pm

The five foot eleven guys are still going to rule.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:18 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Look at what JuJu is doing now at the NFL level. Honestly though these must have been extremely isolated incidents. In fact his ability to locate the ball downfield is 1 of the reasons he's rated so high. He isn't a burner but he can run with receivers deep and make plays. And you won't find a young DB that doesn't bite on PA or double moves. Not 1. He's by far the best CB1 in this draft and has a lot less to clean up than the others.

I don't doubt he's the best DB in this draft, it's a matter of figuring out where to stack him on the big board. As a CB at least, he's a cut below where Lattimore was last year (I was a big fan) for example. If we're taking a CB at #7, 2 years after taking Hargreaves, he better be special. I'm just not sold yet- but I'm leaving the door open for a Jalen Ramsey type offseason though. It's a reasonable stance. He's in that Arden Key grouping for me, guys I'm taking a wait and see approach with, as their tape is a bit of a mixed bag, but guys who could very well end up very high on my big board.


Well he doesn't have anymore games to play. In his final audition he did outstanding. As a corner you're really underestimating him but that happens when you don't see a player play much. In this draft no CB1 is as good as Minkah. His hips are extremely fluid and he can change directions at the drop of a dime. He closes extremely well and wraps up the ball carrier, that comes from playing safety. Technique wise I still don't really know what there is to not love. He doesn't a great job of cutting off the inside for receivers when he's guarding the boundary. He forces throws to the outside of the receiver close to the out of bounds mark. It's the opposite of what our CBs do, they force everything in which allows for easy completions inside. He's not going to all of a sudden "get better" from now until April and have a chance to showcase.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:30 pm

We are up at 7 and these are the top three players on the board.

3 S MINKAH FITZPATRICK - ALABAMA
5 G QUENTON NELSON - NOTRE DAME
6 EDGE BRADLEY CHUBB - NC STATE


Would you contact the Bears (8) and the Broncos (9) to tell them your taking offers? I'm asking would you take a 2nd from one of them with you being guaranteed you'll get one of those players?
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:34 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:I don't doubt he's the best DB in this draft, it's a matter of figuring out where to stack him on the big board. As a CB at least, he's a cut below where Lattimore was last year (I was a big fan) for example. If we're taking a CB at #7, 2 years after taking Hargreaves, he better be special. I'm just not sold yet- but I'm leaving the door open for a Jalen Ramsey type offseason though. It's a reasonable stance. He's in that Arden Key grouping for me, guys I'm taking a wait and see approach with, as their tape is a bit of a mixed bag, but guys who could very well end up very high on my big board.


Well he doesn't have anymore games to play. In his final audition he did outstanding. As a corner you're really underestimating him but that happens when you don't see a player play much. In this draft no CB1 is as good as Minkah. His hips are extremely fluid and he can change directions at the drop of a dime. He closes extremely well and wraps up the ball carrier, that comes from playing safety. Technique wise I still don't really know what there is to not love. He doesn't a great job of cutting off the inside for receivers when he's guarding the boundary. He forces throws to the outside of the receiver close to the out of bounds mark. It's the opposite of what our CBs do, they force everything in which allows for easy completions inside. He's not going to all of a sudden "get better" from now until April and have a chance to showcase.

This.

here's a glance at his resume'

Mid season All American as a S
Bednarik winner
Biletnikoff finalist,
Nagurski finalist,
Thorpe winner,
Walter Camp finalist,
2017 1st team All American
2016 consensus All american
2x all SEC 1st team
2x SEC champion
2x National Champion


we could do a lot worse than Minkah Fitzpatrick.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Cheb » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:48 pm

mdb1958 wrote:We are up at 7 and these are the top three players on the board.

3 S MINKAH FITZPATRICK - ALABAMA
5 G QUENTON NELSON - NOTRE DAME
6 EDGE BRADLEY CHUBB - NC STATE


Would you contact the Bears (8) and the Broncos (9) to tell them your taking offers? I'm asking would you take a 2nd from one of them with you being guaranteed you'll get one of those players?


I would take a second round pick to move back one spot. It would be crazy not to. At that point, I then take my pick of the other two guys (assuming one of them is taken).
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:58 pm

Cheb wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:We are up at 7 and these are the top three players on the board.

3 S MINKAH FITZPATRICK - ALABAMA
5 G QUENTON NELSON - NOTRE DAME
6 EDGE BRADLEY CHUBB - NC STATE


Would you contact the Bears (8) and the Broncos (9) to tell them your taking offers? I'm asking would you take a 2nd from one of them with you being guaranteed you'll get one of those players?


I would take a second round pick to move back one spot. It would be crazy not to. At that point, I then take my pick of the other two guys (assuming one of them is taken).


This. Also I'd assume that Denver would be moving up to take a QB so at the least 2 of these guys would be available. It would be bad business to not trade back UNLESS we absolutely fell in love with 1 of these 3 and didn't want to take a chance.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:59 pm

It costs a 4th to move from 7 to 5, so I doubt we'd get a 2nd to go from 7 to 8. As well, if Chubb is there at 7, don't overthink it, thank the heavens, and take the guy.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Super K » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:13 pm

real bucs fan wrote:It costs a 4th to move from 7 to 5, so I doubt we'd get a 2nd to go from 7 to 8. As well, if Chubb is there at 7, don't overthink it, thank the heavens, and take the guy.


This..
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:22 pm

I screwed up, I meant the Bears and 49ers. Plus it aint about points, its whether you want your pick of these three. If both of them want Nelson, the first 2nd rounder gets him.

Check that! It has to be the Bears, the 49ers traded their 2nd rounder.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:41 pm

Cheb wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:We are up at 7 and these are the top three players on the board.

3 S MINKAH FITZPATRICK - ALABAMA
5 G QUENTON NELSON - NOTRE DAME
6 EDGE BRADLEY CHUBB - NC STATE


Would you contact the Bears (8) and the Broncos (9) to tell them your taking offers? I'm asking would you take a 2nd from one of them with you being guaranteed you'll get one of those players?


I would take a second round pick to move back one spot. It would be crazy not to. At that point, I then take my pick of the other two guys (assuming one of them is taken).



You know I do this every year, now if all three are gone then what.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Jason Bourne » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:48 pm

mdb1958 wrote:
Cheb wrote:
I would take a second round pick to move back one spot. It would be crazy not to. At that point, I then take my pick of the other two guys (assuming one of them is taken).



You know I do this every year, now if all three are gone then what.


Draft Key ! Ezpz
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Cheb » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:34 pm

mdb1958 wrote:
Cheb wrote:
I would take a second round pick to move back one spot. It would be crazy not to. At that point, I then take my pick of the other two guys (assuming one of them is taken).



You know I do this every year, now if all three are gone then what.


That would entirely depend on who else was on the board, and who is on the phone looking to trade (if anyone)
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:37 pm

mdb1958 wrote:
Cheb wrote:
I would take a second round pick to move back one spot. It would be crazy not to. At that point, I then take my pick of the other two guys (assuming one of them is taken).



You know I do this every year, now if all three are gone then what.


Key. Ferrell. Vea. Ward. Hurst. James. Barkley. This draft isn't 3-4 players deep.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Jason Bourne » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:06 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:

You know I do this every year, now if all three are gone then what.


Key. Ferrell. Vea. Ward. Hurst. James. Barkley. This draft isn't 3-4 players deep.

This
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby Super K » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:41 am

****, Vea has moved into my top 3 ahead of Fitz anyway...

Build the trenches..either side of the ball...with big (but quick), mean, nasty sons of bitches..

Then watch our running game and/or DBs look much better..
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:28 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:

You know I do this every year, now if all three are gone then what.


Key. Ferrell. Vea. Ward. Hurst. James. Barkley. This draft isn't 3-4 players deep.


This... Although I've cooled my enthusiasm on Arden Key. I'm still enamored by his upside/potential but there is alot of underwhelming play from him also. Watching game cut-ups of him and there are a few plays where I'm convinced he's a top 5 pick, then for the majority of the rest of the game I question if he's even a 1st rounder. Whereas a guy like Bradley Chubb is constantly disruptive.

In regards to mdb question, I would absolutely take a day 2 pick to move back a few spots. Just like Howard was a top 5-10 non-QB prospect last year and fell to 19 b/c he didn't play a 'premium position' there is a chance Nelson falls outside the top 10. Plus there are guys like Vea, Derwin James, Ferrell, etc.

Picking up that additional day 2 pick would allow us to address the run game with additional resources where there is always good value at RB and Guard in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

This offseason the Bucs have to address the pass rush and the run game. I think Fitz is an outstanding prospect and I know the Bucs could use a player like that in the secondary. But Fitz doesn't rush the QB, run the ball, or block and those were the primary reasons the Bucs went 5-11 imo.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:20 am

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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:02 am

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... rQ6b0zu-5I



You can save this but everytime you revisit the link you have to recopy and paste it over again. Good info, you can go into - say passes defended for all - fbs- DII - DII whatever, then pick a player and click on his name again and it will show his career stats. Then you have to copy and paste his name for his size and videos, team records or whatever. Research...


This is how mdb finds all the losers and worthless whatnots...
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:17 am

http://web1.ncaa.org/stats/StatsSrv/careerplayer

This was the final click (twice) on a players name that brings up his career stats, I dont know why it doesnt stay up when you put it in here.
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Re: The real 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneer Draft discussion

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:27 am

nope,cant figure it out.
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