Is Winston on this team next year?

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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby MJW » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:08 am

In a vacuum? I'd agree with you. He doesn't DESERVE anything like that.

But keep something in mind: If we didn't know him so well, how attractive would he seem on the open market? Didn't someone point out that he's in his mid-twenties, in the top five in the league in passing yards and TDs, etc, etc?

On the open market, that gets overpaid. If he decides he wants to test the market, that's what he's looking at - $30 mil APY. For the same reasons that we paid Donovan Smith $14 mil APY when he's terrible.

Some bad, QB needy team will give him that money. We're a bad, QB needy team WITH the home-field advantage.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby BJJ34 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:11 am

I know there is no way the Ravens trade him, but McSorley could rip this league up with the right weapons.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby PetePierson » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:13 am

MJW wrote:In a vacuum? I'd agree with you. He doesn't DESERVE anything like that.

But keep something in mind: If we didn't know him so well, how attractive would he seem on the open market? Didn't someone point out that he's in his mid-twenties, in the top five in the league in passing yards and TDs, etc, etc?

On the open market, that gets overpaid. If he decides he wants to test the market, that's what he's looking at - $30 mil APY. For the same reasons that we paid Donovan Smith $14 mil APY when he's terrible.

Some bad, QB needy team will give him that money. We're a bad, QB needy team WITH the home-field advantage.


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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Buc2 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:56 pm

MJW wrote:
Buc2 wrote:I've said since this thread began that JW will be here next year. He'll also be the starter next year. Whine, bitch, moan all you want. Y'all keep arguing the same exact points day after day. Page after page. Post after post. It does not matter. He will be our Buccaneers starting QB next September (barring injury of course).

Come on. Let's hear some more reasons why he shouldn't be. Oh. Wait. That's already been said, ad nauseum, over the past 16 pages of this thread alone. :lol: :roll:


This is true.

I'm already excited for next year's batch of excuses for when he's the exact same QB he's been since college.

Don't mistake my post for defending him. I'm just answering the OP when I say he will be here and starting next season. Has zero to do with me wanting or not wanting him to be here.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:04 pm

BJJ34 wrote:I know there is no way the Ravens trade him, but McSorley could rip this league up with the right weapons.

Quit sniffing glue.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Doctor » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:46 pm

I could get behind $30M on what essentially a series of franchise tags. Holy hell, MJW, are you being reasonable!?

I'd still be for drafting Tua if he falls or someone else in Day 2.

The important part is that it doesn't leave us with our ass hanging out if we don't land our QB. Fans fail to comprehend that FO don't just "take the next best QB" on the board. That's not how that works. There are usually one, maybe two or three, QBs you really like or believe in as a front office in the draft. If for whatever reason the draft falls in a way where they aren't there when we go to pick, then the FO will just not get a QB that draft. QB is not really a "settle for" position. And if that happens we'll be stuck with either a $12M journeyman Fitpatrick type or an unknown why the hell not Finley type for the year. No thanks. Maybe we get lucky, sure, but no thanks.

With the defense maturing I think we have a legit shot of being a consistent 30-21 win team as we're built right now, which means a much overdue playoff berth. Excited to see how we finish the season.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby MJW » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:52 pm

Doctor wrote:I could get behind $30M on what essentially a series of franchise tags. Holy hell, MJW, are you being reasonable!?



I didn't say I endorsed it. I said I expected it.

Winston will never be consistent enough to win with. But hey, Donovan Smith sucked too, and we paid him. That's who we are. We're a third tier organization that makes decisions based on fear of the alternative, and then we wonder why we suck.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Deuce » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:55 pm

Doctor wrote:The important part is that it doesn't leave us with our ass hanging out if we don't land our QB. Fans fail to comprehend that FO don't just "take the next best QB" on the board. That's not how that works. There are usually one, maybe two or three, QBs you really like or believe in as a front office in the draft. If for whatever reason the draft falls in a way where they aren't there when we go to pick, then the FO will just not get a QB that draft. QB is not really a "settle for" position. And if that happens we'll be stuck with either a $12M journeyman Fitpatrick type or an unknown why the hell not Finley type for the year. No thanks. Maybe we get lucky, sure, but no thanks.


And you know the inner workings of an NFL front office how?
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby NavyBuc » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:12 pm

Bringing Winston back for another year is telling the fans of the Tampa Bay Bucs “We are fine with being okay.” Might as well do a commercial on the Bucs ownership for AT&T.

Once upon a time we fired coaches for not advancing in the playoffs (Dungy/Gruden). Now we are happy if we can get to 8-8. Hell, Winston may get a 5-year contract if we go 8-8.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby IronDog » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:18 pm

MJW wrote:and then we wonder why we suck.

We do?

Wonder why, I mean.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Doctor » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:35 pm

NavyBuc wrote:Bringing Winston back for another year is telling the fans of the Tampa Bay Bucs “We are fine with being okay.” Might as well do a commercial on the Bucs ownership for AT&T.

Once upon a time we fired coaches for not advancing in the playoffs (Dungy/Gruden). Now we are happy if we can get to 8-8. Hell, Winston may get a 5-year contract if we go 8-8.

The idea is that you aren't staying put at 8-8.

Not to mention if the coach that took a team consistently sucky team and made it into a .500 team on his first year says "Hey, I can win with this", I'm gonna ****ing believe him.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Caradoc » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:45 pm

Doctor wrote:
NavyBuc wrote:Bringing Winston back for another year is telling the fans of the Tampa Bay Bucs “We are fine with being okay.” Might as well do a commercial on the Bucs ownership for AT&T.

Once upon a time we fired coaches for not advancing in the playoffs (Dungy/Gruden). Now we are happy if we can get to 8-8. Hell, Winston may get a 5-year contract if we go 8-8.

The idea is that you aren't staying put at 8-8.

Not to mention if the coach that took a team consistently sucky team and made it into a .500 team on his first year says "Hey, I can win with this", I'm gonna ****ing believe him.


If you come in as a new regime and overhaul things, and after a rough adjustment starts you 2-6 but you finish the next half of the season 6-2, you are going to believe you have the pieces in place to have a legit shot at being at least a playoff contender - that 6-2 should be more reflective of the team you are fielding next year than the 2-6 start should be.

Bringing Winston back would be an outspring from that, too bad if the fans can't see it - or, more appropriately, don't want to see it. When the winning comes they will just have to deal with it. I'm expect that if that is what happens a lot of posters here are just going to disappear. for a while.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Jonny » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:10 pm

Winston gets the same treatment Cousins received from the Redskins two years. Franchise tag.

I do not think it is that easy to move on from him.

Wilson
Mahomes
Brady
Brees
Rodgers
Big Ben
Lamar
Watson
Stafford
Ryan


As bad as Winston is, I still don't think there are that many QBs clearly better than him. Dak Prescott gets considered a good QB already when he still hasn't shown the ability to carry his team to a win against a better opponent. Wentz was crowned a couple years back as the next big thing, his stinkers are as bad as Winston's. Baker was this off season's darling, but almost every game he looks like Winston at his worst. If those guys still have a job, it is not so outlandish for Winston to get an extension. Bucs have been and still are a poorly coached team. If I am the Glazers I am not moving on from Winston just to make a point that we can do better. We are not picking in the top 5. We are not going to be able to draft Tua or Burrow. Jake Fromm and that Oregon QB f'ing suck.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby MJW » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:19 pm

Caradoc wrote:
Doctor wrote:The idea is that you aren't staying put at 8-8.

Not to mention if the coach that took a team consistently sucky team and made it into a .500 team on his first year says "Hey, I can win with this", I'm gonna ****ing believe him.


If you come in as a new regime and overhaul things, and after a rough adjustment starts you 2-6 but you finish the next half of the season 6-2, you are going to believe you have the pieces in place to have a legit shot at being at least a playoff contender - that 6-2 should be more reflective of the team you are fielding next year than the 2-6 start should be.

Bringing Winston back would be an outspring from that, too bad if the fans can't see it - or, more appropriately, don't want to see it. When the winning comes they will just have to deal with it. I'm expect that if that is what happens a lot of posters here are just going to disappear. for a while.


Imagine thinking that four good games means more than four plus bad seasons.

Oh, I forgot, Winston has a clean slate, and we're forgetting about his problems his last year at FSU...followed by how he had the same problems under Lovie...then Koetter...then literally until the 2nd quarter of the game two weeks ago. That's all meaningless.

Again, we should never wonder why we suck.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby sanka » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:58 am

MJW wrote:
Caradoc wrote:
If you come in as a new regime and overhaul things, and after a rough adjustment starts you 2-6 but you finish the next half of the season 6-2, you are going to believe you have the pieces in place to have a legit shot at being at least a playoff contender - that 6-2 should be more reflective of the team you are fielding next year than the 2-6 start should be.

Bringing Winston back would be an outspring from that, too bad if the fans can't see it - or, more appropriately, don't want to see it. When the winning comes they will just have to deal with it. I'm expect that if that is what happens a lot of posters here are just going to disappear. for a while.


Imagine thinking that four good games means more than four plus bad seasons.

Oh, I forgot, Winston has a clean slate, and we're forgetting about his problems his last year at FSU...followed by how he had the same problems under Lovie...then Koetter...then literally until the 2nd quarter of the game two weeks ago. That's all meaningless.

Again, we should never wonder why we suck.


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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby PetePierson » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:17 am

Jonny wrote:As bad as Winston is, I still don't think there are that many QBs clearly better than him..... If I am the Glazers I am not moving on from Winston just to make a point that we can do better. .


I think this is MJM's main issue (to which I agree); at some point the Brothers' Glazer need to stop making / not making decisions out of fear. Maintaining a losing status quo because you are scared it may not be better is not how competent franchises or businesses operate.

Queue the definition of insanity quote.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby NYBF » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:19 am

Jonny wrote:Baker was this off season's darling, but almost every game he looks like Winston at his worst.


This is Baker's 2nd season.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby PetePierson » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:21 am

NYBF wrote:
Jonny wrote:Baker was this off season's darling, but almost every game he looks like Winston at his worst.


This is Baker's 2nd season.


He just needs more time.








It just works for everything and that tickles my jimmies.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby MJW » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:26 am

PetePierson wrote:
Jonny wrote:As bad as Winston is, I still don't think there are that many QBs clearly better than him..... If I am the Glazers I am not moving on from Winston just to make a point that we can do better. .


I think this is MJM's main issue (to which I agree); at some point the Brothers' Glazer need to stop making / not making decisions out of fear. Maintaining a losing status quo because you are scared it may not be better is not how competent franchises or businesses operate.

Queue the definition of insanity quote.


This, exactly.

"Yeah, but what if we don't?" isn't the organizing principle of a well run business. Yet it's the only real argument for keeping Winston. "Yeah, but what if we don't...and we have to start Geno Smith next year?" or "Yeah, but what if we don't and he ends up winning a Superbowl with the Panthers?" ETC.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby doooshnzl » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:51 am

Patrick McIrish wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Even you jumped off the Winston bandwagon earlier. Funny how wins make people forget.


Wins DO matter. I know you didn't post this to me but to pretend winning isn't going to change some perspectives is foolish.

Are they end all? Of course not. You have to look at everything.

While it can be silly to put too much into a player playing basically in his contract year.......

It's also silly to pretend the last 1.5 years (at least) he's been trying to win with a defense that was absolutely pathetic.

I'm not in the sign Winston camp yet but I am in the "I'm going to keep options open" the last few games of the season.

I mean the first question is price.

If you or anyone tells me there is NO PRICE at which they would keep him I'm going it dismiss that opinion out of ignorance.

uscbucsfan wrote:Literally everyone called that he would make a decent/mediocre run at the end of the season when the playoffs were basically out of reach.


Fair point here. I've said that many times including this year.

You want to see best Winston wait until there's nothing left to play for..... preseason and after playoff contention this kid shines, LOL.

I still think the decision is getting tougher, I say that because I do see him throwing the ball away more. I have seen less "hero ball" of late.

Yes, labeled the biggest Winston hater on the board since he arrived but situations change.....

The more you adapt in life, the better it is for you. What was horrible in the past may be more conducive moving forward.

A 25 year old QB with 5 full seasons of playing time is not something you send packing without a lot of soul searching.......

Especially with the defense playing better and the team winning down the stretch.

Those two things continue and it could play very big into all this.


uscbucsfan wrote:He's still not a top 15 or even top 20 QB in the NFL.


I think he's a top 20 QB for sure, and no I would trade him for that Minchew idiot in Jax.

We move on.

I'm digging the new PMI and his cogent, well thought out posts, although the old smart ass had a certain charm. Having said that.....

This post is wasted on this a large portion of this group. Bring in Glennon, Palmer or some other stiff? ****ing insanity.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:03 am

NavyBuc wrote:Bringing Winston back for another year is telling the fans of the Tampa Bay Bucs “We are fine with being okay.” Might as well do a commercial on the Bucs ownership for AT&T.

Once upon a time we fired coaches for not advancing in the playoffs (Dungy/Gruden). Now we are happy if we can get to 8-8. Hell, Winston may get a 5-year contract if we go 8-8.

You're looking at this in a vacuum where all 8-8 seasons and teams are somehow equal. If you believe that they are I can understand your logic, but I disagree with that perspective.

So to compare an 8-8 season in 2019 to the Dungy teams that kept getting bounced in the playoffs b/c they couldn't score over more than 10pts on offense is an equivalence I would not make or agree with.

Lets take a trip down memory lane... The Bucs made the NFCCG in '99 and held the GSOT Rams to 11pts in their building. The next season in '00 we lose in the WC round to the Eagles (21-3), in '01 we lose again in the same WC round to the Eagles (31-9).

Everyone knew we were wasting a historically great defense so we made move to avoid being stuck in mediocrity. Luckily for us it paid off and Chucky's offense got hot late in the '02 season and we have a Lombardi that will be part of Bucs lore forever.

Fast-forward to the present where the Bucs haven't been to the playoffs in like 12 seasons and our last playoff victory was the Super Bowl win. More recently we've been in the cellar of the NFCS like 4 of the past 5 seasons and coming off b2b 5-11 seasons.

So we're nowhere close to being even mediocre by NFL standards where we can complain about losing in the Wild Card round every year. We're just trying to get to that point where we're competing for the division and a playoff berth.

NFL teams have to crawl before they can walk (and we've obviously been stuck crawling for too long), very rarely does a team go from not making the playoffs or winning a playoff game to hoisting the Lombardi in a single season. This franchise and these players need to learn how to win before they can expect to win. Bringing a coaching staff that has won and expects to is big part of getting there.

That's why I feel these final 4 games are important. We have a team full of 21-26yr olds for the most part who know only losing in the NFL. Getting them to understand what it takes and feels like to win consistently isn't something they can get any other way except experiencing it.

I'm not saying a 6-2 finish to this 2019 season guarantees a playoff berth in 2020, but it does raise expectations and I damn sure feel better about our chances of being successful in 2020 if this squad can finish 6-2 vice 2-6.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:05 pm

Bruce Arians on whether he would recommend to owners that Jameis Winston return for 2020: "I'm going to pass on that one. I'm going to wait until the end of December. There's been really, really good and there's been some really, really bad...''
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Mex-Buc » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:21 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Bruce Arians on whether he would recommend to owners that Jameis Winston return for 2020: "I'm going to pass on that one. I'm going to wait until the end of December. There's been really, really good and there's been some really, really bad...''


This quote is very surprising, first time he is not defending Jameis...
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby PetePierson » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:27 pm

Mex-Buc wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:


This quote is very surprising, first time he is not defending Jameis...


Agreed.

Cool Daddy BA knows he can’t win with The Human Turnover Machine.

He’s gone.

#Exciting
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Deuce » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:32 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Bruce Arians on whether he would recommend to owners that Jameis Winston return for 2020: "I'm going to pass on that one. I'm going to wait until the end of December. There's been really, really good and there's been some really, really bad...''


Wow...not what I was expecting when I started to read that sentence.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby BacksidePursuit » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:54 pm

BA is a straight shooter at least. Compare it to the off-season, that’s a man who has definitely just gone through 12 games of the Winston experience.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby PetePierson » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:56 pm

BacksidePursuit wrote:BA is a straight shooter at least. Compare it to the off-season, that’s a man who has definitely just gone through 12 games of the Winston experience.


Amen.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Snake » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:02 pm

Somehow Arians will be blamed for undermining Jameis’s confidence if/when he implodes.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby PetePierson » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:03 pm

Snake wrote:Somehow Arians will be blamed for undermining Jameis’s confidence if/when he implodes.


No kidding. Winston is probably on the phone with his team on Shrinks and Life Coaches right now.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby GrownishBF » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:06 pm

Snake wrote:Somehow Arians will be blamed for undermining Jameis’s confidence if/when he implodes.


Why would he be? I don't think at this point anyone would say that. Bruce Arians' credibility and reputation in this league is that of a guy who knows what he's doing as far as coaching and teaching. He won't all of a sudden start undermining a QBs confidence. Whatever decision he makes on Winston I'm confident will be the right one. Bruce Arians knows what he's doing.

Plus, Jameis Winston may be a lot of things. Not 1 person can say he's short on confidence. He'll battle until the end.
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