Is Winston on this team next year?

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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby GrownishBF » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:32 pm

Deuce wrote:This should be an interesting off-season. It'll come down to what Winston thinks he's worth or what another team offers him. Everyone assumes we'll slap the FT on him, but Shaq Barrett is also a FA and I'd much rather use it on him.


I agree. I think at this stage, Winston can be had for a lot less than the FT. Barrett will be a more tricky contract negotiation.

Given all of the cap space we have I'd offer Winston a deal before I ran to Mike Glennon or Andy Dalton. And I'd still draft a QB early on.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Digital_Damage » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:36 pm

GrownishBF wrote:
Deuce wrote:This should be an interesting off-season. It'll come down to what Winston thinks he's worth or what another team offers him. Everyone assumes we'll slap the FT on him, but Shaq Barrett is also a FA and I'd much rather use it on him.


I agree. I think at this stage, Winston can be had for a lot less than the FT. Barrett will be a more tricky contract negotiation.

Given all of the cap space we have I'd offer Winston a deal before I ran to Mike Glennon or Andy Dalton. And I'd still draft a QB early on.


Why in the world would you do that? We have the next Brees on the team after all...
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby GrownishBF » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:41 pm

Digital_Damage wrote:
GrownishBF wrote:
I agree. I think at this stage, Winston can be had for a lot less than the FT. Barrett will be a more tricky contract negotiation.

Given all of the cap space we have I'd offer Winston a deal before I ran to Mike Glennon or Andy Dalton. And I'd still draft a QB early on.


Why in the world would you do that? We have the next Brees on the team after all...


I never said that. I was simply offering a conversation piece to go along with Doctor's example of Ryan Tannehill.

If a better option came around I'd be more than happy to move on from Winston. But I think BA, Leftwich and Licht all love him and want him back. They will likely sign him to a reasonable short term deal and draft a QB anyway. But Mike Glennon and Andy Dalton are not upgrades.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Digital_Damage » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:42 pm

GrownishBF wrote:
Digital_Damage wrote:
Why in the world would you do that? We have the next Brees on the team after all...


I never said that. I was simply offering a conversation piece to go along with Doctor's example of Ryan Tannehill.

If a better option came around I'd be more than happy to move on from Winston. But I think BA, Leftwich and Licht all love him and want him back. They will likely sign him to a reasonable short term deal and draft a QB anyway. But Mike Glennon and Andy Dalton are not upgrades.


LULz….


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5765&start=360#p460388
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby GrownishBF » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:45 pm

Digital_Damage wrote:
GrownishBF wrote:
I never said that. I was simply offering a conversation piece to go along with Doctor's example of Ryan Tannehill.

If a better option came around I'd be more than happy to move on from Winston. But I think BA, Leftwich and Licht all love him and want him back. They will likely sign him to a reasonable short term deal and draft a QB anyway. But Mike Glennon and Andy Dalton are not upgrades.


LULz….


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5765&start=360#p460388


What are you referencing here? Yes I get it. I'm not bothered with people calling me Bootz. It is what it is.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Buc2 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:49 pm

PetePierson wrote:
GrownishBF wrote: And they've been through 4 head coaches since Brees got to New Orleans while the Saints are still on the same one.


And how many coaches has Winston gone through in 5 years?

That's not actually helping your point, Pete. :lol:
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby NavyBuc » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:55 pm

GrownishBF wrote:
Digital_Damage wrote:
LULz….


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5765&start=360#p460388


What are you referencing here? Yes I get it. I'm not bothered with people calling me Bootz. It is what it is.


Wait...you’re not bootz? I thought you were. I’m confused.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:01 pm

Deuce wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:That answer to the OP is still yes.

I know this place has become an echo-chamber of Winston haters, but the reality is he'll be back in 2020 and likely longer.

You haters should be more grateful to Bootz for attempting to soften the blow of reality so you don't have to maintain such a level of anger when what we all know is coming actually occurs.


You and Bootz should be grateful for the rest of us. When Winston continues to suck for 2-3 more years and is relegated to a backup role, you won't be surprised because we'll have been telling you for years.

I'm already grateful and I appreciate you acknowledging the reality of Winston being here atleast 2-3 more seasons.

Btw, here are the categories the Bucs offense (led by a sucky QB) are currently top 10 (I'll put an * for top 5).

*Points
*Yards
*Total first downs
*Total TDs
Passing TDs
Rushing TDs
% of offensive drives ending in a TD or FG
Average points per drive
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Digital_Damage » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:04 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Deuce wrote:
You and Bootz should be grateful for the rest of us. When Winston continues to suck for 2-3 more years and is relegated to a backup role, you won't be surprised because we'll have been telling you for years.

I'm already grateful and I appreciate you acknowledging the reality of Winston being here atleast 2-3 more seasons.

Btw, here are the categories the Bucs offense (led by a sucky QB) are currently top 10 (I'll put an * for top 5).

*Points
*Yards
*Total first downs
*Total TDs
Passing TDs
Rushing TDs
% of offensive drives ending in a TD or FG
Average points per drive


lol....

RTG and QBR exist for a reason.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Patrick McIrish » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:12 pm

Winston on the team next year?

It's getting close. He's played it into a "decision" now, before the season I didn't think there could be a serious shot at keeping him.

Cons:

Last game after the 2 early picks I saw a little Jay Cutler, rolling the eyes, the bad body language. Never ever seen that from him before.

Contract year. Bases, hoops, football, the last year of their contract their play is ALWAYS elevated. Getting paid equals better play.

After rookie year keeping your QB is going to get expensive, you better be good elsewhere at cap decisions across the board.......

Paying good players GREAT money under the cap will not work.

Many current models forecast putting together championship roster only with QB's on their rookie deal.


Pros:

The staff likes him. A lot. That's not fluff stuff for casuals, Byron and BA like Winston a lot. Might be some "prove them wrong" involved.

Offense is putting up franchise numbers across the board. Who'd have thought Tampa all over fantasy rosters?

It's a decision when you are averaging over 28 points a game and you ponder to sign or release a 25 yard old QB with gobs of experience.

Me? He's elevated me from happily putting his luggage on my back and carrying it out of town to.......

Wait, let me look at this boys.
Last edited by Patrick McIrish on Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Cheb » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:12 pm

NavyBuc wrote:
GrownishBF wrote:
What are you referencing here? Yes I get it. I'm not bothered with people calling me Bootz. It is what it is.


Wait...you’re not bootz? I thought you were. I’m confused.


I think it's pretty obvious that Grownish is Bootz, for a few reasons.

First, there's the ip thing that the admin and several others here have posted. It's floating around in a screenshot somewhere but I didn't save it.

Secondly, this community has been posting together for what, ten to fifteen years, if not longer? I remember talking about draft prospects on the official boards with some people here back when Carson Palmer was draft eligible. While no one can certainly be bothered to remember everybody's style and idiosyncrasies, Bootz had nearly 25,000 posts on this board in a little over four years. That's an average of almost 15 posts a day during the time that he was active. He had a certain style to his posts, to say the least. Hell, Bootzing became a term around here for a reason. When reading GrownishBF's stuff and remembering Bootz's old posts, I'm confident when I say that they are cut from the same cloth stylistically.

Thirdly, I'm certainly no internet stalker, but I can do basic math. Grownish has had over 1100 posts since August 1st of this year, averaging out to a hair over 9 posts per day in that 123 day span. That puts him on pace to be the fifth most active poster on the board when measured by average posts per day, behind Bootz2004 (14.1), Mountaineer Buc (11.42), Dreadnaught (10.15), and Buc2 (9.26). In the past month, he's had nearly 500 posts, good for about 15.4 posts a day, which would make him the most prolific poster on the board by daily average. One of Bootz's biggest trademarks was his prolific rate of posting. Grownish is not only equaling that; in the past month he's exceeded it.

The only thing lacking is the dramatic Scooby-Doo-style reveal, where his mask is pulled off to unveil his true identity.

Not that I care too much either way. If he isn't the same guy, it's an enormous coincidence. If he is, I vacillate between apathy and pity.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Snake » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:13 pm

Bucs rank 23rd in the league in offensive DVOA. Also 23rd in passing DVOA as well.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:13 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Deuce wrote:
You and Bootz should be grateful for the rest of us. When Winston continues to suck for 2-3 more years and is relegated to a backup role, you won't be surprised because we'll have been telling you for years.

I'm already grateful and I appreciate you acknowledging the reality of Winston being here atleast 2-3 more seasons.

Btw, here are the categories the Bucs offense (led by a sucky QB) are currently top 10 (I'll put an * for top 5).

*Points
*Yards
*Total first downs
*Total TDs
Passing TDs
Rushing TDs
% of offensive drives ending in a TD or FG
Average points per drive


Even you jumped off the Winston bandwagon earlier. Funny how wins make people forget.

I could cite where you've spoken in the past that these inflated offensive numbers don't mean much without wins, but I know you know better.

Winston is still the same QB he was last year. Literally everyone called that he would make a decent/mediocre run at the end of the season when the playoffs were basically out of reach. He's still not a top 15 or even top 20 QB in the NFL. We should, and most do, want better for our team...we could also have much worse...
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Digital_Damage » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:17 pm

Cheb wrote:
NavyBuc wrote:
Wait...you’re not bootz? I thought you were. I’m confused.


I think it's pretty obvious that Grownish is Bootz, for a few reasons.

First, there's the ip thing that the admin and several others here have posted. It's floating around in a screenshot somewhere but I didn't save it.

Secondly, this community has been posting together for what, ten to fifteen years, if not longer? I remember talking about draft prospects on the official boards with some people here back when Carson Palmer was draft eligible. While no one can certainly be bothered to remember everybody's style and idiosyncrasies, Bootz had nearly 25,000 posts on this board in a little over four years. That's an average of almost 15 posts a day during the time that he was active. He had a certain style to his posts, to say the least. Hell, Bootzing became a term around here for a reason. When reading GrownishBF's stuff and remembering Bootz's old posts, I'm confident when I say that they are cut from the same cloth stylistically.

Thirdly, I'm certainly no internet stalker, but I can do basic math. Grownish has had over 1100 posts since August 1st of this year, averaging out to a hair over 9 posts per day in that 123 day span. That puts him on pace to be the fifth most active poster on the board when measured by average posts per day, behind Bootz2004 (14.1), Mountaineer Buc (11.42), Dreadnaught (10.15), and Buc2 (9.26). In the past month, he's had nearly 500 posts, good for about 15.4 posts a day, which would make him the most prolific poster on the board by daily average. One of Bootz's biggest trademarks was his prolific rate of posting. Grownish is not only equaling that; in the past month he's exceeded it.

The only thing lacking is the dramatic Scooby-Doo-style reveal, where his mask is pulled off to unveil his true identity.

Not that I care too much either way. If he isn't the same guy, it's an enormous coincidence. If he is, I vacillate between apathy and pity.
:lol:
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby PetePierson » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:21 pm

DreadNaught wrote:I'm already grateful and I appreciate you acknowledging the reality of Winston being here atleast 2-3 more seasons.

Btw, here are the categories the Bucs offense (led by a sucky QB) are currently top 10 (I'll put an * for top 5).

*Points
*Yards
*Total first downs
*Total TDs
Passing TDs
Rushing TDs
% of offensive drives ending in a TD or FG
Average points per drive


And just as many wins as the Fro’man.

#Exciting
Last edited by PetePierson on Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Snake » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:22 pm

The same offense that allows the Bucs to put up 28 points per game also leads to them hemorrhaging points. The people who are paid to parse out the raw stats universally suggest it’s a middle third to bottom third offense. Probably somewhere in the middle. Could be worse but this is a lipstick’d pig some our kissing like it’s the prom queen.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby PetePierson » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:25 pm

Snake wrote:Bucs rank 23rd in the league in offensive DVOA. Also 23rd in passing DVOA as well.

DN’s favorite... but he won’t acknowledge it.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Patrick McIrish » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:27 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:Even you jumped off the Winston bandwagon earlier. Funny how wins make people forget.


Wins DO matter. I know you didn't post this to me but to pretend winning isn't going to change some perspectives is foolish.

Are they end all? Of course not. You have to look at everything.

While it can be silly to put too much into a player playing basically in his contract year.......

It's also silly to pretend the last 1.5 years (at least) he's been trying to win with a defense that was absolutely pathetic.

I'm not in the sign Winston camp yet but I am in the "I'm going to keep options open" the last few games of the season.

I mean the first question is price.

If you or anyone tells me there is NO PRICE at which they would keep him I'm going it dismiss that opinion out of ignorance.

uscbucsfan wrote:Literally everyone called that he would make a decent/mediocre run at the end of the season when the playoffs were basically out of reach.


Fair point here. I've said that many times including this year.

You want to see best Winston wait until there's nothing left to play for..... preseason and after playoff contention this kid shines, LOL.

I still think the decision is getting tougher, I say that because I do see him throwing the ball away more. I have seen less "hero ball" of late.

Yes, labeled the biggest Winston hater on the board since he arrived but situations change.....

The more you adapt in life, the better it is for you. What was horrible in the past may be more conducive moving forward.

A 25 year old QB with 5 full seasons of playing time is not something you send packing without a lot of soul searching.......

Especially with the defense playing better and the team winning down the stretch.

Those two things continue and it could play very big into all this.


uscbucsfan wrote:He's still not a top 15 or even top 20 QB in the NFL.


I think he's a top 20 QB for sure, and no I would trade him for that Minchew idiot in Jax.

We move on.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Patrick McIrish » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:29 pm

Snake wrote:Bucs rank 23rd in the league in offensive DVOA. Also 23rd in passing DVOA as well.



No getting around it, very fair point.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby PetePierson » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:29 pm

Top 20 out of 32?

#Exciting
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:30 pm

Snake wrote:Bucs rank 23rd in the league in offensive DVOA. Also 23rd in passing DVOA as well.

Also 23rd in weighted offense.

None of FO advanced stats look good for Jameis. He's towards the bottom of all QBs in most categories.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby PetePierson » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:31 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Snake wrote:Bucs rank 23rd in the league in offensive DVOA. Also 23rd in passing DVOA as well.

Also 23rd in weighted offense.

None of FO advanced stats look good for Jameis. He's towards the bottom of all QBs in most categories.


Bottom 3.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Patrick McIrish » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:34 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Snake wrote:Bucs rank 23rd in the league in offensive DVOA. Also 23rd in passing DVOA as well.

Also 23rd in weighted offense.

None of FO advanced stats look good for Jameis. He's towards the bottom of all QBs in most categories.



Statistics are a guide but they are telling you the story of yesterday.

Yesterday Foles was a SB winning QB and absolute stud.

Cam was Player of the Year.

Cousins was an absolute bum until this year.

Jackson sucked last year....

Trubisky looked like he was going to develop great last year.

To win, which is probably why we do very little of it, you need to SEE what's coming, not just what's happened in the past.

Everyone is a genius when we discuss the past, the pool gets small when we discuss what's coming.

Anyway, I'm not making a case for signing him today..... but for me it's turning into closer decision than I ever imagined.

We move on.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby PetePierson » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:35 pm

Yeah, 5 seasons is not enough history. See what’s coming? More league leading turnovers.

He just needs more time.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby beardmcdoug » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:38 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:bucs are going to finish 6-10 or 7-9 and we're going to franchise tag Winston and draft a tackle in the first round and give it another go
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Patrick McIrish » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:40 pm

PetePierson wrote:He just needs more time.





Sorry Pete, I know you hate having a black QB but whoever makes the call I hope that's not the basis for the decision.

Sigh. :roll:
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Digital_Damage » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:40 pm

Patrick McIrish wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Even you jumped off the Winston bandwagon earlier. Funny how wins make people forget.


Wins DO matter. I know you didn't post this to me but to pretend winning isn't going to change some perspectives is foolish.

Are they end all? Of course not. You have to look at everything.

While it can be silly to put too much into a player playing basically in his contract year.......

It's also silly to pretend the last 1.5 years (at least) he's been trying to win with a defense that was absolutely pathetic.

I'm not in the sign Winston camp yet but I am in the "I'm going to keep options open" the last few games of the season.

I mean the first question is price.

If you or anyone tells me there is NO PRICE at which they would keep him I'm going it dismiss that opinion out of ignorance.

uscbucsfan wrote:Literally everyone called that he would make a decent/mediocre run at the end of the season when the playoffs were basically out of reach.


Fair point here. I've said that many times including this year.

You want to see best Winston wait until there's nothing left to play for..... preseason and after playoff contention this kid shines, LOL.

I still think the decision is getting tougher, I say that because I do see him throwing the ball away more. I have seen less "hero ball" of late.

Yes, labeled the biggest Winston hater on the board since he arrived but situations change.....

The more you adapt in life, the better it is for you. What was horrible in the past may be more conducive moving forward.

A 25 year old QB with 5 full seasons of playing time is not something you send packing without a lot of soul searching.......

Especially with the defense playing better and the team winning down the stretch.

Those two things continue and it could play very big into all this.


uscbucsfan wrote:He's still not a top 15 or even top 20 QB in the NFL.


I think he's a top 20 QB for sure, and no I would trade him for that Minchew idiot in Jax.

We move on.


Valid and I can put a number on it right now.

14 Million for two years, 4.5 guaranteed and that is being generous... also sign legitimate competition.

It is in line with his Average Annual Value and comparable with other 2020 UFA's
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby Digital_Damage » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:42 pm

Patrick McIrish wrote:
PetePierson wrote:He just needs more time.





Sorry Pete, I know you hate having a black QB but whoever makes the call I hope that's not the basis for the decision.

Sigh. :roll:


Funny how the Winston supporters said some really racist **** on here. I guess he is just the right shade of Melanin for them.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby PetePierson » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:45 pm

Patrick McIrish wrote:
PetePierson wrote:He just needs more time.





Sorry Pete, I know you hate having a black QB but whoever makes the call I hope that's not the basis for the decision.

Sigh. :roll:


Keep flip flopping you sad ****ing excuse for a lame imposter.

Funny thing being the real PMI was a ****ing racist bastard. Obviously, you're not familiar with his rap sheet.
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Re: Is Winston on this team next year?

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:47 pm

Patrick McIrish wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Even you jumped off the Winston bandwagon earlier. Funny how wins make people forget.


Wins DO matter. I know you didn't post this to me but to pretend winning isn't going to change some perspectives is foolish.


Wins do matter, but 2 in a row don't negate the 7 losses, Winston's issues/turnovers, etc. (just from this year).

Some of the Winston defenders act like that.

Winston's never been the only problem, but to point at our "top offense" as something to be prideful in is ignorant to the overall game of complimentary football. Historically QB's giving the ball up at high rates have bad defenses. Winning the turnover battle may be a bit hyperbolic among coach speak, but it is crucial and important.

Winston always seemingly does well when the season is out of reach and we all go into next year with hope.

I don't know how any intelligent football fan would be accepting of throwing money at Winston after what we've seen to this point.
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