Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby BucaRican » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:59 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
BucaRican wrote:What?????? That makes zero sense and proves my point. He had 4 dink and dunk incomplete passes and 2 interception when Chicago's took a vacation. Come on man, he had more picks than Fitzpatrick in the game.


16-20. That's 4 incomplete passes. But THIS proves a point many have made. People just don't like Winston. You're nitpicking over 4 incomplete passes on an afternoon where he came off the bench for the 1st time since probably little league in an already lost game, completed 80% of his throws and threw the only TD on the day. Nobody is calling it a legendary performance. It was nothing more than a tune up honestly. But what do you feel you have to prove by nitpicking over 4 incomplete passes out of 20


No nitpicking, stating facts, he still threw 2 interceptions without the same Bears defense that Fitz faced in the first half. The Bears defense did not have the same intensity or the same personnel that they had in the first half, but yea Jameis looked great because he only threw 4 incomplete passes with 2 ints.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby Buc2 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:59 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:So was Jameis rusty?


Nope, he was unprepared. 4 incompletions on the day. Threw a TD. 2 picks, 1 a bad throw and the other a deflection. He was put in a terrible situation that no head coach should put a player in.

Putting Winston in is exactly what Koetter should have done. Because of the circumstances, now there will be zero QB controversy when he starts Winston the rest of the season. Smart move.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:01 am

BucaRican wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
16-20. That's 4 incomplete passes. But THIS proves a point many have made. People just don't like Winston. You're nitpicking over 4 incomplete passes on an afternoon where he came off the bench for the 1st time since probably little league in an already lost game, completed 80% of his throws and threw the only TD on the day. Nobody is calling it a legendary performance. It was nothing more than a tune up honestly. But what do you feel you have to prove by nitpicking over 4 incomplete passes out of 20


No nitpicking, stating facts, he still threw 2 interceptions without the same Bears defense that Fitz faced in the first half. The Bears defense did not have the same intensity or the same personnel that they had in the first half, but yea Jameis looked great because he only threw 4 incomplete passes with 2 ints.


We all know he threw 2 picks. What's your point?
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby BucaRican » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:01 am

Buc2 wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Nope, he was unprepared. 4 incompletions on the day. Threw a TD. 2 picks, 1 a bad throw and the other a deflection. He was put in a terrible situation that no head coach should put a player in.

Putting Winston in is exactly what Koetter should have done. Because of the circumstances, now there will be zero QB controversy when he starts Winston the rest of the season. Smart move.


Maybe, but I wouldn't want to play for a coach that threw in the towel at half time. It shows big time.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby BucaRican » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:04 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
BucaRican wrote:
No nitpicking, stating facts, he still threw 2 interceptions without the same Bears defense that Fitz faced in the first half. The Bears defense did not have the same intensity or the same personnel that they had in the first half, but yea Jameis looked great because he only threw 4 incomplete passes with 2 ints.


We all know he threw 2 picks. What's your point?


For the last time, IT WAS GARBAGE TIME! Imagine if he starts like you were clamoring for, Kalil mack alone would have had him throwing 6 picks. He was playing in a game that was lost against guys on vacation after the half and managed to still give them back the ball twice. Dirk was looking for an excuse to put in Jameis.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby Selmon Rules » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:11 am

BucaRican wrote:
Buc2 wrote:Putting Winston in is exactly what Koetter should have done. Because of the circumstances, now there will be zero QB controversy when he starts Winston the rest of the season. Smart move.


Maybe, but I wouldn't want to play for a coach that threw in the towel at half time. It shows big time.

The team threw in the towel at the end of the first quarter....
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:12 am

BucaRican wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
We all know he threw 2 picks. What's your point?


For the last time, IT WAS GARBAGE TIME! Imagine if he starts like you were clamoring for, Kalil mack alone would have had him throwing 6 picks. He was playing in a game that was lost against guys on vacation after the half and managed to still give them back the ball twice. Dirk was looking for an excuse to put in Jameis.


Okay and what should we have done?
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby Buc2 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:14 am

Stop being so myopic, 'rican. Even the non-Buc fans that were sitting around me at the bar agreed that Winston is the better QB and with the score 38-3 at halftime, the 2nd half was the perfect opportunity to start Winston for 2 reasons. 1 - to negate any QB controversy, and 2 - to give him some live game action to go into the bye with.

I don't care how much you hate Winston. He is this teams QB. Period.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby BucaRican » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:40 am

Buc2 wrote:Stop being so myopic, 'rican. Even the non-Buc fans that were sitting around me at the bar agreed that Winston is the better QB and with the score 38-3 at halftime, the 2nd half was the perfect opportunity to start Winston for 2 reasons. 1 - to negate any QB controversy, and 2 - to give him some live game action to go into the bye with.

I don't care how much you hate Winston. He is this teams QB. Period.


I don't hate Winston, I am just not up on my Stock trades with him. He is a talented QB, but his mind is far from his talent. Time and time again he has proven this. Last year he was suppose to be the man in the league, and fell flat and then got hurt. He shines but then falls flat. He has this potential thing that everyone talks about but he always disappoints. But the FACT that Fitz threw for 400 yards and put us in a position to be 2-2 going into the bye says something. The offensive play calling was bad last week at the start of the game and was bad this week at the start of the game. We played to the defenses strengths in both games. I just think we could have at least given Fitz one more shot to fight with his team.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby BucaRican » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:44 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
BucaRican wrote:
For the last time, IT WAS GARBAGE TIME! Imagine if he starts like you were clamoring for, Kalil mack alone would have had him throwing 6 picks. He was playing in a game that was lost against guys on vacation after the half and managed to still give them back the ball twice. Dirk was looking for an excuse to put in Jameis.


Okay and what should we have done?


Let the guy who started the game finish it. How many times has Winston played horrible and Dirk has left him in when he was off of his game, tonnnnssss. Last year he left him in after constantly saying Jameis can't make those mistakes. To pull a guy out that is backed by the locker room and say they were not even gonna try and fight is a bad sign. I love Winstons talent by his mental is not franchise.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:47 am

BucaRican wrote:I love Winstons talent by his mental is not franchise.


Huh
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:00 am

The QB position isn't the problem for the Bucs right now. If your reaction to yesterday is to complain about Fitz or Winston you are missing the boat and either trolling or driving an agenda imo.

We can't run the ball and have a big problem at RG. Regardless of who plays QB those are the issues on offense.

There are numerous issues on defense. CB play, coaching, scheme etc. ALL way more important than squabbling over Fitz/Winston.

There is no reason to be down on Fitz or hype Winston right now. Kudos to Fitz for stepping in and playing great week 1-2. He's shown it was wise to bring him in here to be the back-up and that we can be competitive (sans yesterday) with him if need be. But barring a 4-0 or 3-1 start by this Bucs team and Fitz playing at an MVP level this was always going to be Winston's job come week 6 with how the schedule worked out with the bye.

This Bucs team needs to figure out how to hold teams under 25 points and somewhat establish the run. Until that happens it doesn't really matter who is playing QB imo.

The only time we've held an opponent under 30 is when they were missing their starting QB, RB, and WR (Eagles).
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby Buccs99 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:16 am

2014.


makes me think of 2014.


the only difference is we have talent on this team...and it still shits the bed. it can never pull it together. it's undiscipline, it's lack of communication on the field, it's never on the same page. The few times this season where our defense stood up, our offense flounders. the time our offense makes a big play, our defense lets the opponent right back in.


Remember, the first two weeks, this team wasnt talking about the bucs. they were talking about fitzpatrick. now that the whole thing is over, you see the bucs for what they really are. a poor organization that just cant ever get it all together.


also, a lot of fire mike smith. i agree. but i also agree with koetter. no ****ing excuse for guys like Kwon and David to struggle on the field with assignments. but ultimately, why didnt "coach" Smith have these guys ready ? it's bullshit and he needs to go.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby Buccs99 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:17 am

BucaRican wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
16-20. That's 4 incomplete passes. But THIS proves a point many have made. People just don't like Winston. You're nitpicking over 4 incomplete passes on an afternoon where he came off the bench for the 1st time since probably little league in an already lost game, completed 80% of his throws and threw the only TD on the day. Nobody is calling it a legendary performance. It was nothing more than a tune up honestly. But what do you feel you have to prove by nitpicking over 4 incomplete passes out of 20


No nitpicking, stating facts, he still threw 2 interceptions without the same Bears defense that Fitz faced in the first half. The Bears defense did not have the same intensity or the same personnel that they had in the first half, but yea Jameis looked great because he only threw 4 incomplete passes with 2 ints.



he threw two picks without the same bears defense ?


tell me again who hit winstons arm on the interception ?
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby SIBucsFan » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:29 am

First game I've attended in 7 years. Made the 6-hour trip up north to watch my favorite team play.

I was looking forward to assessing how various players were going to perform--the rookie DBs, Vea, the defensive line as a whole, not to mention Isaiah Johnson stepping in for Jordan Whitehead stepping in for Chris Conte. I wasn't as optimistic about the offense, especially the already struggling run-game.

I was looking forward to see how our offense gets those explosive plays first-hand. While we had a couple to Jackson (I was able to see the nice 42-yard sideline catch pretty close, 13 rows away), by the 2nd quarter it was easy to see whatever was about to be assessed was thrown out the window. The assessment to be made was a lack of effort and a lost team that looked like a collective bunch of ill-prepared players who didn't want to play yesterday. It was reminiscent of the 2011 team I got to see first hand in Nashville.

One another note, that Bears defense is unreal. While I believe our team didn't display any effort, it seemed like that defense really put the hammer down from the get-go and made our offense feel completely overwhelmed, overpowered, and intimidated. It's fast, strong, tenacious, and disciplined. It's a Super Bowl caliber defense on the field, not just on paper. Their offense is more-than-adequate wish a chance to be very good as well. The Bears are 3-1, should be 4-0, and are for real.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby Jason Bourne » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:33 am

Qb is not the problem for this team

Defense .. all of it . Btw Buckner has not improved the dline , our secondary is completely lost , and what happened to Lavonte ?

Offense .. RG is a huge issue , Mike Evans has stop dropping the easy catches
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:47 am

Greg Auman @gregauman is must follow for the day after game nuggets.

Just saw that the Bucs defense has allowed 12 TDs in 13 RZ trips (93%) by the opponent this season. :shock:

That is an absurdly bad rate. IIRC a 'good' RZ efficiency % (for an offense) is around 60%. The Bucs are allowing 93%. It's amazing we're 2-2 tbh.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby acmillis » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:35 am

DreadNaught wrote:Greg Auman @gregauman is must follow for the day after game nuggets.

Just saw that the Bucs defense has allowed 12 TDs in 13 RZ trips (93%) by the opponent this season. :shock:

That is an absurdly bad rate. IIRC a 'good' RZ efficiency % (for an offense) is around 60%. The Bucs are allowing 93%. It's amazing we're 2-2 tbh.

One stat that I always look at to determine good/bad reality IMHO, is point differential...we're third worst in the league and we give up 35 points/game.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby PrimeMinister » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:54 am

Buccs99 wrote:
BucaRican wrote:
No nitpicking, stating facts, he still threw 2 interceptions without the same Bears defense that Fitz faced in the first half. The Bears defense did not have the same intensity or the same personnel that they had in the first half, but yea Jameis looked great because he only threw 4 incomplete passes with 2 ints.



he threw two picks without the same bears defense ?


tell me again who hit winstons arm on the interception ?


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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:06 am

acmillis wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Greg Auman @gregauman is must follow for the day after game nuggets.

Just saw that the Bucs defense has allowed 12 TDs in 13 RZ trips (93%) by the opponent this season. :shock:

That is an absurdly bad rate. IIRC a 'good' RZ efficiency % (for an offense) is around 60%. The Bucs are allowing 93%. It's amazing we're 2-2 tbh.

One stat that I always look at to determine good/bad reality IMHO, is point differential...we're third worst in the league and we give up 35 points/game.


Point differential in football isn't the best imo b/c it's a small sample size with only 16 games (especially only 4 games in) so just 1-2 bad games can really distort things. Plus NFL games are being decided by 1 possession more than ever. The league wants close, high scoring games b/c that is what the fans find most entertaining.

1) W/L record in games decided by 8pts or less?
2) Scoring offense (in relation to your scoring defense) - Teams that have finished in the top 5 in scoring offense have usually always made the playoffs. If you can consistently score you have a chance every week despite how bad your defense is.

If you're good in those two areas you'll win alot of games. Beyond that for me it's;

3)Turnovers
4) RZ%
5) 3rd down %
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby doooshnzl » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:33 am

PrimeMinister wrote:
Nano wrote:I just wish I knew why every year we have one of these losses. Bears this year, Vikings last year, Cardinals in 2016. It's almost like clockwork that we'll have one game that completely destroys our optimism.


I’m more concerned if this one game destroys the team optimism. Most shitty teams have a bad loss during the year. Winning teams don’t carry that **** on to the next week.


Just a minor edit......
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby MJW » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:00 pm

Thoughts:

1) Jameis looked okay, considering. Terrible situation.
2) Fitzpatrick didn't look good, but didn't look as bad as his final line.
3) Obviously, the situation has been decided going forward. It was fun while it lasted.
4) It's impossible to take this franchise seriously when we all know Mike Smith will still be the DC in two weeks.
5) Oddly, I find myself kind of excited about VHIII coming back next year, because Mike Smith is really good at making defensive backs look terrible. Maybe he can live up to his hype playing for a real coach?
6) I think Vea will be fine.
7) I think Kwon took two steps back after his great game in Pittsburgh. So did Justin Evans. Bad games.
8) Credit to Chandler Catanzaro, who had another quiet game, which is good.
9) Rojo...man...he's still playing with zero confidence. He can't help the team win games at this point.
10) The "Mike Evans never drops passes" narrative is taking a hit lately.
11) I hope absolutely nobody is still defending the Raiders for the Khalil Mack trade.
12) I really would love to see Peyton Barber get like 25 carries some game.
13) The entire offensive line was grotesque, especially Marpet and Smith.
14) I don't believe we're as bad as we looked. We're too talented.
15) I wish Dirk was as loyal to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as he is his BFF.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby Patrick McIrish » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:26 pm

DreadNaught wrote:Point differential in football isn't the best imo b/c it's a small sample size with only 16 games (especially only 4 games in) so just 1-2 bad games can really distort things. Plus NFL games are being decided by 1 possession more than ever. The league wants close, high scoring games b/c that is what the fans find most entertaining.

1) W/L record in games decided by 8pts or less?
2) Scoring offense (in relation to your scoring defense) - Teams that have finished in the top 5 in scoring offense have usually always made the playoffs. If you can consistently score you have a chance every week despite how bad your defense is.

If you're good in those two areas you'll win alot of games. Beyond that for me it's;

3)Turnovers
4) RZ%
5) 3rd down %



Am I reading that right?

You scoff at point differential, W/L record in games decided by 8 points or less is your best indicator of a team's strength?
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby Patrick McIrish » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:38 pm

acmillis wrote:One stat that I always look at to determine good/bad reality IMHO, is point differential...we're third worst in the league and we give up 35 points/game.



Your method is much more on point than Dread.

Point differential has much more to do with the relative strength of a team than W/L record in close games.

Close losses have much more to do with luck (and perhaps coaching) than point differential for a team. And it's not close.

Ironically he points to small samples as the logic behind his thoughts, LOL.

I like you Dread but the board is better when you stick to more cheerleading of the team and not so much the football side of all this.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:39 am

We clearly need to get the D and run game situations turned around. As is, we’ll struggle to be 8-8. But if Rojo can break through, and Mike Smith can somehow orchestrate a defensive turn around like he did in 2016, we can make noise thanks to what is an elite passing game. Not saying it’s what I think will happen, just saying that’s what needs to happen.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby DonkeyHunter » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:47 am

real bucs fan wrote:and Mike Smith can somehow orchestrate a defensive turn around like he did in 2016


I'd hardly call it a turnaround. It was a 4-5 game aberration. It quickly reverted back to the **** show we've all come to love and know on the national stage against Dallas.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:51 am

DonkeyHunter wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:and Mike Smith can somehow orchestrate a defensive turn around like he did in 2016


I'd hardly call it a turnaround. It was a 4-5 game aberration. It quickly reverted back to the **** show we've all come to love and know on the national stage against Dallas.


Exactly. That supposed turn around was smoke and mirrors. It was the product of an incredibly high and unsustainable rate of key turnovers.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby DonkeyHunter » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:02 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Exactly. That supposed turn around was smoke and mirrors. It was the product of an incredibly high and unsustainable rate of key turnovers.


Yup.

People were running around scared that we'd lose Smitty to a HC vacancy somewhere and other ridiculous stuff.

But, it was clear as day that the stretch was an outlier. Perfect storm of opposing offenses playing their worst offensive football of the year, mixed with (as you said) unsustainable rate of TO's at the most opportune times.

There was still no meaningful pass rush, proper utilization of the skill-sets of our secondary, etc.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:02 am

Regardless of the how or why, or whether I think it's going to happen or not, that's what needs to happen if we're going to make a run- and I do think the talent is there. Smith just needs to use his noggin over this bye week.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 4: 48-10 Loss @ Chicago Bears

Postby Nano » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:43 am

Next week's game is going to be sooooo high scoring. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if it's like a 48-44 type of game.
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