Gerald McCoy is the anti Sapp

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Re: Gerald McCoy is the anti Sapp

Postby SIBucsFan » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:27 am

McCoy has been a great player for the Bucs for most of this decade now. We've all known he isn't a vocal leader and when he's tried in the past, it's been cringe-worthy.

He has the talent you build around, but he isn't the guy who everyone will look to in adverse situations and believe in because of who he is. I believe he takes too much criticism for this, because being a great player and vocal leader are completely independent of one another. Many people believe they go hand-in-hand because a lot of of the great players have supreme confidence and are alpha-types who get in your face. That trait is what makes a lot of them great to begin with. In respect to McCoy, something else has driven him to be great. Just wanted to play a kid's game for a living, I suppose.

The dance on the sideline was unprofessional given the circumstances, however McCoy doing that should surprise no one.

I wish we had someone who had that killer instinct on defense. I thought Kwon did, but I don't know anymore. Maybe JPP is that guy. Maybe Beckwith can be. If someone can do it and is currently on the defense, it isn't known as of now and chances are we don't have that vocal leader who holds everyone accountable.
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Re: Gerald McCoy is the anti Sapp

Postby ComingThisFall » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:32 am

JPP should be the guy. He’s trying now but what he needs is wins. If we can get on a win streak over Mike Smith’s dead body we could have a culture change
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Re: Gerald McCoy is the anti Sapp

Postby terrytate » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:57 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:
I would say he has been handled by a single blocker plenty of times, still wont be easily replaced without some luck.


And I'd say you're full of it. McCoy doesn't get singled very often and when he does he certainly doesn't get "handled by a single blocker plenty of times". Bullshit.


Truth. McCoy could penetrate from the 3 like few others. Sometimes his first step looked faster than Sapp's.
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Re: Gerald McCoy is the anti Sapp

Postby mdb1958 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:50 am

terrytate wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
And I'd say you're full of it. McCoy doesn't get singled very often and when he does he certainly doesn't get "handled by a single blocker plenty of times". Bullshit.


Truth. McCoy could penetrate from the 3 like few others. Sometimes his first step looked faster than Sapp's.
I wont argue he is a good player, I said all along he needed help. I argued with Cheb and he said all we need is a space eater for NT. We never went all in and identified and went for a DE or three until we got it right. What was the end run? Many times I saw his quick penetration miss the sack and just cause a scramble for a 19 yard run or pass on third down for more times than hes has sacks in his career. Teams would expose his quickness for big runs in the running game. I always like to think in terms of team, and the team just hasnt got it done. And yes I stand by my statement that many times McCoy was single blocked for 3 or 4 seconds and sometimes way more than that. Anyone that dont believe that the NFL hasnt put out 10 years of guard talent to do it isnt watching football.

The 19 yard statement would require 9 years of checking but I wouldnt be surprised to know it happened fifty times or close to it.


A half of a sack a game average may not even be reached for his career numbers and it just dont take over games for wins.
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Re: Gerald McCoy is the anti Sapp

Postby MJW » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:09 am

This stuff with McCoy is way overblown.

No, I didn't like him dancing and screwing around on the sidelines.

No, I don't think it has anything to do with us losing the game.

As for the whitewashing of the Sapp era, people seem to forget how childish he could be on the field and on the sidelines. Now it's written off as "passion" because we won games. He was lucky enough to play most of his career with three of the best "adults" a team could have on defense with him so he didn't have to be that guy. Dude wasn't Mikey, inspiring the Goonies with his leadership and vision. He was Sloth.*

* - Almost went with Chunk.
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Re: Gerald McCoy is the anti Sapp

Postby Caradoc » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:26 am

MJW wrote:
No, I don't think it has anything to do with us losing the game.

.


Bullshit. When you accept losing, you are choosing to lose. And look how great that leadership worked. Other people followed the "leaders" of the defense in throwing a mini dance party why Atlanta was pushing their **** in. Same thing with him always telling teammates about how whatever happens you gotta be happy because you're "getting paid to do what we love". Like hey we're gonna lose, but it's OK, we are gettin paid!

If you want to know why this defense is so soft, it's that attitude right there. Too much of it across the board.
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Re: Gerald McCoy is the anti Sapp

Postby MJW » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:06 am

Caradoc wrote:
MJW wrote:
No, I don't think it has anything to do with us losing the game.

.


Bullshit. When you accept losing, you are choosing to lose. And look how great that leadership worked. Other people followed the "leaders" of the defense in throwing a mini dance party why Atlanta was pushing their **** in. Same thing with him always telling teammates about how whatever happens you gotta be happy because you're "getting paid to do what we love". Like hey we're gonna lose, but it's OK, we are gettin paid!

If you want to know why this defense is so soft, it's that attitude right there. Too much of it across the board.


Can you actually make a direct connection to the dancing and the loss? Because I can't sure seemed like everyone was going hard before and after. This reads more like a sportstalk hot-take than an actual analysis. It's a bad optic. Optics don't win and lose games.
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Re: Gerald McCoy is the anti Sapp

Postby Buc2 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:42 am

Caradoc wrote:
MJW wrote:
No, I don't think it has anything to do with us losing the game.

.


Bullshit. When you accept losing, you are choosing to lose. And look how great that leadership worked. Other people followed the "leaders" of the defense in throwing a mini dance party why Atlanta was pushing their **** in. Same thing with him always telling teammates about how whatever happens you gotta be happy because you're "getting paid to do what we love". Like hey we're gonna lose, but it's OK, we are gettin paid!

If you want to know why this defense is so soft, it's that attitude right there. Too much of it across the board.

The only thing they lost with that dancing was respect from fans. Maybe some players as well after reading what JPP had to say.
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Re: Gerald McCoy is the anti Sapp

Postby Caradoc » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:23 pm

MJW wrote:
Caradoc wrote:
Bullshit. When you accept losing, you are choosing to lose. And look how great that leadership worked. Other people followed the "leaders" of the defense in throwing a mini dance party why Atlanta was pushing their **** in. Same thing with him always telling teammates about how whatever happens you gotta be happy because you're "getting paid to do what we love". Like hey we're gonna lose, but it's OK, we are gettin paid!

If you want to know why this defense is so soft, it's that attitude right there. Too much of it across the board.


Can you actually make a direct connection to the dancing and the loss? Because I can't sure seemed like everyone was going hard before and after. This reads more like a sportstalk hot-take than an actual analysis. It's a bad optic. Optics don't win and lose games.


You think mindset and attitude has nothing to do with winning? Interesting take there. Do you think winners are going to be dancing around like it's some kind of church league charity game when they are in the middle of an historically bad run of humiliating play? Winners don't accept losing. They get pissed and work even harder to win. They try and figure out what it''s going to take to win. And I guarantee the answer to that is never "needs moar hokey-pokey".

Doing that on the sidelines in that situation isn't just "bad optics". It's bad leadership. It says, "hey, we're losing, but that's okay, it's just a game. Better luck next week". A leader is spending his time on the sidelines adjusting, figuring out what's going wrong, firing up his teammates and getting in faces when needed, holding people accountable. Kwon is blowing assignments left and right. What he should be doing is burying his nose in a tablet and working with his coaches to fix however the other team is exploiting him, showing his leadership by showing he wants nothing more than to win. Instead he decides it's dance party time.

These guys have made losing such a habit they just accept it. That's what losers do.
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Re: Gerald McCoy is the anti Sapp

Postby Caradoc » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:24 pm

Buc2 wrote:
Caradoc wrote:
Bullshit. When you accept losing, you are choosing to lose. And look how great that leadership worked. Other people followed the "leaders" of the defense in throwing a mini dance party why Atlanta was pushing their **** in. Same thing with him always telling teammates about how whatever happens you gotta be happy because you're "getting paid to do what we love". Like hey we're gonna lose, but it's OK, we are gettin paid!

If you want to know why this defense is so soft, it's that attitude right there. Too much of it across the board.

The only thing they lost with that dancing was respect from fans. Maybe some players as well after reading what JPP had to say.



And you don't think either (or both) of those things contributes to losing?
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Re: Gerald McCoy is the anti Sapp

Postby Buc2 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:28 pm

Caradoc wrote:
Buc2 wrote:The only thing they lost with that dancing was respect from fans. Maybe some players as well after reading what JPP had to say.



And you don't think either (or both) of those things contributes to losing?

I do not think last Sunday's sideline antics contributed to losing that game.
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Re: Gerald McCoy is the anti Sapp

Postby Caradoc » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:33 pm

Buc2 wrote:
Caradoc wrote:

And you don't think either (or both) of those things contributes to losing?

I do not think last Sunday's sideline antics contributed to losing that game.



Are you deliberately missing the point?

It isn't the dancing that is the problem. The dancing is a symptom of the problem. It's the IDGAF attitude the dancing represents. And that it spreads to other players

And frankly, who knows what would have happened if they had spent less time dancing and more time working on the game. Maybe they see something they missed earlier. Maybe the get someone to play with more fire and something good comes from that.

You're payed millions to play what is basically a three hour game. It's not a lot to expect to have your full attention for that period of time.
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Re: Gerald McCoy is the anti Sapp

Postby Buc2 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:46 pm

Caradoc wrote:
Buc2 wrote:I do not think last Sunday's sideline antics contributed to losing that game.



Are you deliberately missing the point?

It isn't the dancing that is the problem. The dancing is a symptom of the problem. It's the IDGAF attitude the dancing represents. And that it spreads to other players

And frankly, who knows what would have happened if they had spent less time dancing and more time working on the game. Maybe they see something they missed earlier. Maybe the get someone to play with more fire and something good comes from that.

You're payed millions to play what is basically a three hour game. It's not a lot to expect to have your full attention for that period of time.

Dude. I get it. I'm just busting on you a bit. Calm down. I think they gave up giving a **** after they were humiliated in Chicago. To me, that's weak minds and, in turn, that's poor coaching to allow them to fall into such a mindset. Every one of those guys on defense should have voluntarily been back in the building by Wednesday morning after that mess they laid in Chicago trying to figure out how to get better. That, to me, is indicative of weak minds just collecting a paycheck. Just like they quit on Raheem, it may very well be happening again.

We'll see. Maybe this change will do them some good. But I doubt it. I mean, come on. How much can we really expect when the rest of the coaching staff is still the same guys? They can't make any major scheme changes. It's too late for that, isn't it?

Let's just face the fact that if we don't score 30+ points, we're not winning another game this season. It'll go easier on us as fans.
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Re: Gerald McCoy is the anti Sapp

Postby mdb1958 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:30 pm

Pretty sure the wonderful union rules wouldnt allow it.
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