Welcome back Jameis

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Welcome back Jameis

Postby tjax03 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:34 pm

This is your teamn and your franchise.


Fitz magic has turned to fitz tragic


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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby Crocaneers » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:36 pm

In b4 bootz
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby Seamen » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:54 pm

I mean why bother wasting another week, just get him back in there and knock the rust off live.
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby terrytate » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:57 pm

Seamen wrote:I mean why bother wasting another week, just get him back in there and knock the rust off live.



If we could, we would.
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby Super K » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:28 pm

My dog...lets ride...
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby tjax03 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:31 pm

At least jameis sees brate and evans in the red zone.

With fitz we are kicking field goals
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby Jason Bourne » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:41 pm

tjax03 wrote:At least jameis sees brate and evans in the red zone.

With fitz we are kicking field goals



Yeah it’s not like Jameis ever threw 3 ints Before
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby Commander Bubbles » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:43 pm

tjax03 wrote:This is your teamn and your franchise.


Fitz magic has turned to fitz tragic


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Are you for real? You’re all over the place.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4543&hilit=Tjax
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby sanka » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:59 pm

Commander Bubbles wrote:
tjax03 wrote:This is your teamn and your franchise.


Fitz magic has turned to fitz tragic


Image


Are you for real? You’re all over the place.

http://www.buczone.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... hilit=Tjax


Tjax is a Schizo
"History is a set of lies agreed upon." - Napoleon
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby Patrick McIrish » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:44 am

Yahoo!!

A guy with an 18-27 record, still trying to "develop" after 40 something starts. That's a career for most QB's.

The team needs to cut ties with Winston if we want to move forward.
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby terrytate » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:30 am

Patrick McIrish wrote:Yahoo!!

A guy with an 18-27 record, still trying to "develop" after 40 something starts. That's a career for most QB's.

The team needs to cut ties with Winston if we want to move forward.


People like to throw 18-27 out there like Winston is why we lost 27 games when instead hes a big reason why we made it to 18 wins in that time. The list of QBs who could have overcome the inept running game, blocking and defense on this team in Winston's first three years is very, very small.

We had the 4th beat passing game in the league last year. Fitz only played three games, meaning the lions share of that is on Winston. So what exactly do you want? You need the man to play running back and safety too?
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby Patrick McIrish » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:54 am

terrytate wrote:
People like to throw 18-27 out there like Winston is why we lost 27 games when instead hes a big reason why we made it to 18 wins in that time. The list of QBs who could have overcome the inept running game, blocking and defense on this team in Winston's first three years is very, very small.


Thank you! Exactly what I said, I just said it several years ago before we drafted Winston. In fact my posts (one of thousands) said this:

We are not a QB away from being competitive!? We can trade down, get 4 or 5 studs for this pick and be poised to get a QB early when the team is ready.

I was bombarded with posts talking about all we needed was a franchise QB. Playoffs in 2nd year at latest, and deep run at that time. Year #4 and nothing.

At least you and the others now see what I was talking about.

That's the thing with a PMI take, it often sounds ridiculous at times to lesser minds, 3 or 4 years later the crowd is asking how does he do it????

All that said, you are correct, the 18-27 isn't all on Winston, no more that loss last night was all on Fitz.


terrytate wrote:We had the 4th beat passing game in the league last year. Fitz only played three games, meaning the lions share of that is on Winston. So what exactly do you want? You need the man to play running back and safety too?


Yes, Fitz played 3 games and we went 2-1 last year. Winston played the rest, 3-10 he went. What was your point again?

What, 4th best passing last year? Really? Well this year we are number 1 in passing and Fitz has made all the starts. What was your point again?

No, don't need Winston to play RB or safety, just play QB at a higher level than we've seen in his first 40+ starts.

Questions? I didn't think so, we move on.
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby terrytate » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:45 pm

Patrick McIrish wrote:
terrytate wrote:
People like to throw 18-27 out there like Winston is why we lost 27 games when instead hes a big reason why we made it to 18 wins in that time. The list of QBs who could have overcome the inept running game, blocking and defense on this team in Winston's first three years is very, very small.


Thank you! Exactly what I said, I just said it several years ago before we drafted Winston. In fact my posts (one of thousands) said this:

We are not a QB away from being competitive!? We can trade down, get 4 or 5 studs for this pick and be poised to get a QB early when the team is ready.

I was bombarded with posts talking about all we needed was a franchise QB. Playoffs in 2nd year at latest, and deep run at that time. Year #4 and nothing.

At least you and the others now see what I was talking about.

That's the thing with a PMI take, it often sounds ridiculous at times to lesser minds, 3 or 4 years later the crowd is asking how does he do it????

All that said, you are correct, the 18-27 isn't all on Winston, no more that loss last night was all on Fitz.


terrytate wrote:We had the 4th beat passing game in the league last year. Fitz only played three games, meaning the lions share of that is on Winston. So what exactly do you want? You need the man to play running back and safety too?


Yes, Fitz played 3 games and we went 2-1 last year. Winston played the rest, 3-10 he went. What was your point again?

What, 4th best passing last year? Really? Well this year we are number 1 in passing and Fitz has made all the starts. What was your point again?

No, don't need Winston to play RB or safety, just play QB at a higher level than we've seen in his first 40+ starts.

Questions? I didn't think so, we move on.


So, you want to crutch on Fitz going 2-1 last year. Let me help you with a free lesson. Who, exactly, did Fitz play? At the end of the year, we had four teams on our schedule that finished with a losing record. Those four teams accounted for four of our five wins and Fitz and the fortune to draw two of them when he was filling in for Winston. The one game against a winning team, the Falcons, led to the Fitz/Bucs getting blown out.

Winston played 13 games, 11 of them against much better competition than FItz. He won his two games against week teams, had several games lost by the kicker and scored a win over the red hot 11-5 Saints.

Sure, this year we are #1 and Fitz is playing well. But Fitz could not do this last year, so what changed? What has Fitz playing so far above both his career averages and his numbers from last season? Could it be the much improved pass blocking? Maybe the playcalling of Monken? Possibly Howard and Godwin no longer being rookies? Perhaps all of the above. The important takeaway is that Fitz didn't get magically better overnight. It's the team that has gotten better and that will benefit Winston every bit as much as it has Fitz.

Now, you have my permission to move on.
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby PetePierson » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:48 pm

ESPN (I know, they are terrible) but did just present the argument by looking at last 6 games started by each QB. Spoiler Alert: the franchise QB came in a distant second.
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby terrytate » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:30 pm

PetePierson wrote:ESPN (I know, they are terrible) but did just present the argument by looking at last 6 games started by each QB. Spoiler Alert: the franchise QB came in a distant second.



I bet. Prime Manning would have trouble matching the raw numbers set by Fitz in the last 3 games. Do you think Fitz is better than Manning or do you think it's too small a sample size?

Fitz is coming back to Earth though. As more games are played we will see where Fitz really is. I think it's no coincidence that Fitz had a crap game in the first one where the other team actually hit him and 400 yards is less impressive when it takes 50 attempts to get there.

The only thing to support a Fitz>Winston position are the first two games. They were damned impressive but Fitz did it in a pair of games where he had virtually no pressure in his face all game. With our weapons, every half decent QB in the league would have lit up the scoreboard. The one game where he is under consistent pressure, his YPA, comp % and QB rating drop by huge margins and he throws some horrendous picks
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby PetePierson » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:42 pm

Well, it is interesting if you look at pressures, hurries, sacks and hits. Winston fumbled something like 7 times. Fitz? Zero.

So let's not act like your franchise QB is all about the ball security.
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby SDBucs » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:45 pm

Needed to throw on my old eclipse glasses to read what McIrish just spewed
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby Ken Carson » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:01 pm

PetePierson wrote:Well, it is interesting if you look at pressures, hurries, sacks and hits. Winston fumbled something like 7 times. Fitz? Zero.

So let's not act like your franchise QB is all about the ball security.

You want to look at statistics? OK, let’s.

Ryan Fitzpatrick has started 122 games. He has thrown 184 career touchdowns and 140 career interceptions. Jameis has started 45 games and thrown 69 touchdowns to 44 interceptions. Prorating Jameis to 122 starts gets you 193 TDs and 128 interceptions. For reference, last night’s opponent Big Ben threw 165 TDs and 112 INTs his first 122 starts.
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby PetePierson » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:08 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
PetePierson wrote:Well, it is interesting if you look at pressures, hurries, sacks and hits. Winston fumbled something like 7 times. Fitz? Zero.

So let's not act like your franchise QB is all about the ball security.

You want to look at statistics? OK, let’s.

Ryan Fitzpatrick has started 122 games. He has thrown 184 career touchdowns and 140 career interceptions. Jameis has started 45 games and thrown 69 touchdowns to 44 interceptions. Prorating Jameis to 122 starts gets you 193 TDs and 128 interceptions. For reference, last night’s opponent Big Ben threw 165 TDs and 112 INTs his first 122 starts.


If you add fumbles / total turnovers, your extrapolations look slightly less skewed.
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby Ken Carson » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:25 pm

PetePierson wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:You want to look at statistics? OK, let’s.

Ryan Fitzpatrick has started 122 games. He has thrown 184 career touchdowns and 140 career interceptions. Jameis has started 45 games and thrown 69 touchdowns to 44 interceptions. Prorating Jameis to 122 starts gets you 193 TDs and 128 interceptions. For reference, last night’s opponent Big Ben threw 165 TDs and 112 INTs his first 122 starts.


If you add fumbles / total turnovers, your extrapolations look slightly less skewed.

Fitzpatrick has 68 in 122 starts. Jameis is on pace for 86 in 122. So sure, it brings the turnover numbers closer.

But I’m pitting Winston’s first 3 years against Fitzpatrick’s entire career. Big Ben’s first three seasons? 52 TDs to 43 INTs. You think he got better at taking care of the ball since then? Peyton Manning? 85 TDs, 58 INTs. He turned out ok. Eli Manning? 58 TDs, 52 INTs. He managed to win a few Super Bowls...
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby PetePierson » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:30 pm

This is the thing that is driving most here crazy; no one or at least very few are posting that Fitzmagic has the higher ceiling.
But right now, in 2018 and even after the 1st half last night; Fitz is the better QB for this team...right now.
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:36 pm

PetePierson wrote:This is the thing that is driving most here crazy; no one or at least very few are posting that Fitzmagic has the higher ceiling.
But right now, in 2018 and even after the 1st half last night; Fitz is the better QB for this team...right now.


You can't say that without seeing Winston play in 2018. Right now it sounds like you're comparing 3 games from Fitz to selective games from Winston between 2015-2017. In that regard, yes. Fitzpatrick 2018 3 game sample is better than Winston's 2015-2017.
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby PetePierson » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:43 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
You can't say that without seeing Winston play in 2018. Right now it sounds like you're comparing 3 games from Fitz to selective games from Winston between 2015-2017. In that regard, yes. Fitzpatrick 2018 3 game sample is better than Winston's 2015-2017.


But that is all we have to go on, no?
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby NavyBuc » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:43 pm

From the sounds of it, I agree with most fans in that I'd rather have Fitzpatrick starting right now until he loses it, and I don't think he's done anything to lose it thus far. He made some bad throws last night, but also some really good ones. It's not his fault our defense sucks. But whatever Koetter decides, he decides. He's the one who has to make the decision. But me personally, I think Fitzpatrick gives us a better chance of winning games.
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby terrytate » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:48 pm

PetePierson wrote:This is the thing that is driving most here crazy; no one or at least very few are posting that Fitzmagic has the higher ceiling.
But right now, in 2018 and even after the 1st half last night; Fitz is the better QB for this team...right now.



Bootz hit on my point. If you could prove to me that Fitz could play the whole season like the first two games, I'd bite. His career shows that is a pipe dream. He came back to earth against the Steelers to a large degree. Fitz has only shown one thing that WInston has struggled with, the ability to hit DJax in stride on deep balls.

Winston was the better QB last year. He was the better QB in preseason, if you recall he was playing lights out and mistake free. I believe he is all but certainly the better QB right now. Everything that is letting Fitz thrive will work for Winston just as well. Winston can complete passes that Fitz couldn't attempt, like deep outs.

Sooner or later, WInston is going to get back in there. We'll see then.
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby PetePierson » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:52 pm

terrytate wrote:Sooner or later, WInston is going to get back in there. We'll see then.

That is the beauty of the multiple threads / posts / debates on this one subject.

We all are going to have an answer by Halloween.
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby DanTurksGhost » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:01 pm

Stop the insanity. Please, I beg you.
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby terrytate » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:04 pm

PetePierson wrote:
terrytate wrote:Sooner or later, WInston is going to get back in there. We'll see then.

That is the beauty of the multiple threads / posts / debates on this one subject.

We all are going to have an answer by Halloween.


Yup. I hope it doesn't take that long. I can kind of see what they might not want to install Winston on a 4 day week, but I'd like to see him in for the Falcons game.
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby PetePierson » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:08 pm

terrytate wrote:
Yup. I hope it doesn't take that long. I can kind of see what they might not want to install Winston on a 4 day week, but I'd like to see him in for the Falcons game.

I've been on that since jump, start Winston after the bye.
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Re: Welcome back Jameis

Postby MJW » Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:57 am

terrytate wrote:He came back to earth against the Steelers to a large degree.


Fitz absolutely came back down to earth. He made a few brain-shattering bad decisions. He missed some easy throws. In the 2nd quarter, he reminded everyone that two years ago he was maybe the worst starting QB in the NFL.

He also threw for 400 yards and 3 TDs with no running game. It's fair to say he dodged a few bullets with possible picks. But he was also 2 Godwin drops away from five passing touchdowns. He put up 17 unanswered against a defense that had it's ears pinned back.

This wasn't the QB battle death blow some of us were hoping for. But unless one turned the game off at halftime, I don't think Fitz moved even an inch closer to the bench on Monday night.
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