***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:08 am

Bryan Anger, Chandler Catanzaro, William Gholston, Evan Smith and Noah Spence count a combined $14mil against the cap next season. If I'm GM, 4 cost effective replacements would be a top priority and it wouldn't be hard to replace at least 4 of them (I'll acknowledge our kicking woes over the years).
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby Jason Bourne » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:34 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Bryan Anger, Chandler Catanzaro, William Gholston, Evan Smith and Noah Spence count a combined $14mil against the cap next season. If I'm GM, 4 cost effective replacements would be a top priority and it wouldn't be hard to replace at least 4 of them (I'll acknowledge our kicking woes over the years).



replace all except Anger...that dude is a weapon, and never shanks
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby Super K » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:36 am

Jason Bourne wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Bryan Anger, Chandler Catanzaro, William Gholston, Evan Smith and Noah Spence count a combined $14mil against the cap next season. If I'm GM, 4 cost effective replacements would be a top priority and it wouldn't be hard to replace at least 4 of them (I'll acknowledge our kicking woes over the years).



replace all except Anger...that dude is a weapon, and never shanks


I dunno, he's fell off over the last couple years.... doesn't have a ton of leg left...
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:44 am

Jason Bourne wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Bryan Anger, Chandler Catanzaro, William Gholston, Evan Smith and Noah Spence count a combined $14mil against the cap next season. If I'm GM, 4 cost effective replacements would be a top priority and it wouldn't be hard to replace at least 4 of them (I'll acknowledge our kicking woes over the years).



replace all except Anger...that dude is a weapon, and never shanks


Fun fact: Anger's average yards per punt has decreased each of the last 5 years. I agree he never shanks but some of his punts remind me of Michael Koenan if I'm being honest. PLUS for my personal taste $3mil is way too much for a punter. He doesn't do anything special that some young kid out of college can't do.
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:45 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Bryan Anger, Chandler Catanzaro, William Gholston, Evan Smith and Noah Spence count a combined $14mil against the cap next season. If I'm GM, 4 cost effective replacements would be a top priority and it wouldn't be hard to replace at least 4 of them (I'll acknowledge our kicking woes over the years).


We'll see how the rest of the season goes for Chandler Catanzaro, but he's 5/6 on FGs and 13/14 on PATs. So if he finishes the season above 85% on FGs I'd be very hesitant about trying to get cheap and replace him given our history the past few years. We did that with Matt Bryant a while back still haven't recovered with a viable replacement. I mean how many games has a kicker cost us the past few years? The Bucs would save $2.5m by cutting him and have a $750k dead cap penalty. So that is net of $1.75m in savings, and we'd still need to pay a kicker. So what would we really be saving?

Gholston is due $3.75m next season, same as Unrein. Both could be released with no penalty.

Spence is due $1.9m w/ a $620k dead cap hit for his prorated rookie bonus as a 2nd round pick so it's basically a saving of $1.2m to release him.

I don't think Anger is an 'top market' punter anymore. He's solid, but he had a great season in a contract year so I didn't have a problem with it then. But we could move on.
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:50 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Bryan Anger, Chandler Catanzaro, William Gholston, Evan Smith and Noah Spence count a combined $14mil against the cap next season. If I'm GM, 4 cost effective replacements would be a top priority and it wouldn't be hard to replace at least 4 of them (I'll acknowledge our kicking woes over the years).


We'll see how the rest of the season goes for Chandler Catanzaro, but he's 5/6 on FGs and 13/14 on PATs. So if he finishes the season above 85% on FGs I'd be very hesitant about trying to get cheap and replace him given our history the past few years. We did that with Matt Bryant a while back still haven't recovered with a viable replacement. I mean how many games has a kicker cost us the past few years? The Bucs would save $2.5m by cutting him and have a $750k dead cap penalty. So that is net of $1.75m in savings, and we'd still need to pay a kicker. So what would we really be saving?

Gholston is due $3.75m next season, same as Unrein. Both could be released with no penalty.

Spence is due $1.9m w/ a $620k dead cap hit for his prorated rookie bonus as a 2nd round pick so it's basically a saving of $1.2m to release him.

I don't think Anger is an 'top market' punter anymore. He's solid, but he had a great season in a contract year so I didn't have a problem with it then. But we could move on.


People seem to have made up their own memories of Matt Bryant's time here. He was below 85% all 4 seasons he was here. Including just 77% in 2006, the year he became a local legend with the 62 yard FG. I think that, combined with the tragic death of his infant son put him forever in the heart of Bucs fans. For those of us living in reality he was an 83% kicker here who went hot and cold. He was NOT the near 90% kicker he has been since going to Atlanta
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby serbiabuc » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:58 pm

why cutting Gholston? dude is not elite, but for 3.75M we are getting solid DT and DE backup. this year he is probably our best lineman outside of JPP.
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:06 pm

serbiabuc wrote:why cutting Gholston? dude is not elite, but for 3.75M we are getting solid DT and DE backup. this year he is probably our best lineman outside of JPP.


Did Gerald McCoy die or something? McCoy is playing at a high level like he always is. Gholston has been decent but he's not special nor is he doing anything that someone else could at a reduced rate
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:29 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
We'll see how the rest of the season goes for Chandler Catanzaro, but he's 5/6 on FGs and 13/14 on PATs. So if he finishes the season above 85% on FGs I'd be very hesitant about trying to get cheap and replace him given our history the past few years. We did that with Matt Bryant a while back still haven't recovered with a viable replacement. I mean how many games has a kicker cost us the past few years? The Bucs would save $2.5m by cutting him and have a $750k dead cap penalty. So that is net of $1.75m in savings, and we'd still need to pay a kicker. So what would we really be saving?

Gholston is due $3.75m next season, same as Unrein. Both could be released with no penalty.

Spence is due $1.9m w/ a $620k dead cap hit for his prorated rookie bonus as a 2nd round pick so it's basically a saving of $1.2m to release him.

I don't think Anger is an 'top market' punter anymore. He's solid, but he had a great season in a contract year so I didn't have a problem with it then. But we could move on.


People seem to have made up their own memories of Matt Bryant's time here. He was below 85% all 4 seasons he was here. Including just 77% in 2006, the year he became a local legend with the 62 yard FG. I think that, combined with the tragic death of his infant son put him forever in the heart of Bucs fans. For those of us living in reality he was an 83% kicker here who went hot and cold. He was NOT the near 90% kicker he has been since going to Atlanta


83% sounds pretty damn good for Bucs fans right about now considering our FG% has been about 73% over the past 3 seasons ('15-'17). It's only been over 83% twice in the 8 years since Matt Bryant left. I wasn't making Matt Bryant out to be Morten Anderson while he was a Buc, but rather making the point I don't want to get rid of kicker that is finally doing the job just to save $2.5m in cap space, to which we'd still need to sign a new kicker.

If Catanzaro can convert FGs and 85% or better and continue to force touchbacks whenever he's asked I don't mind his salary. He's not even in the top 11 contracts in terms of per year average.
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby ComingThisFall » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:33 pm

We’re lamenting the fact that we let Bryant leave and he got better. Typical Bucs. And due to that we got to live through the Tynes and Aguayo **** show.
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:43 pm

ComingThisFall wrote:We’re lamenting the fact that we let Bryant leave and he got better. Typical Bucs. And due to that we got to live through the Tynes and Aguayo **** show.


As I've stated, selective memory. People never mention the fact that Bryant was injured that offseason and didn't participate in TC or the PS in 2009. That's why he was released. Atlanta didn't sign him until December of that season. I get it, it sucks that we missed out but from 2002-2009 Bryant was nothing more than a mediocre kicker. I dare anyone here to act like we should've practiced patience with him.
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:33 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
ComingThisFall wrote:We’re lamenting the fact that we let Bryant leave and he got better. Typical Bucs. And due to that we got to live through the Tynes and Aguayo **** show.


As I've stated, selective memory. People never mention the fact that Bryant was injured that offseason and didn't participate in TC or the PS in 2009. That's why he was released. Atlanta didn't sign him until December of that season. I get it, it sucks that we missed out but from 2002-2009 Bryant was nothing more than a mediocre kicker. I dare anyone here to act like we should've practiced patience with him.

Bryant was definitely a good kicker for us, he hit the big kicks, and really was worthy of the "reliant Bryant" nickname that some us called him.

That said, injuries and the heart shattering tragedy of losing his child, had most of us thinking that perhaps he wouldn't be the same, or that he might not kick again. But it is since we let him go, that the position has been absolutely cursed for us....
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby MJW » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:06 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
ComingThisFall wrote:We’re lamenting the fact that we let Bryant leave and he got better. Typical Bucs. And due to that we got to live through the Tynes and Aguayo **** show.


As I've stated, selective memory. People never mention the fact that Bryant was injured that offseason and didn't participate in TC or the PS in 2009. That's why he was released. Atlanta didn't sign him until December of that season. I get it, it sucks that we missed out but from 2002-2009 Bryant was nothing more than a mediocre kicker. I dare anyone here to act like we should've practiced patience with him.


You're half right.

It IS 20/20 hindsight in regards to "we just should have kept him." I know I've partaken in it, but ten years of bad kicking will do that.

The part you're wrong about is the "mediocre from 2002-2009" thing. He wasn't a good deep kicker (2 of 10 over 50), but he was really good from inside 50, hitting 92.4% of those kicks in his career before Atlanta. It helps that this was before the rule change on XPs, though he's hit 99.4% of those in Atlanta, so I don't know how much it would have mattered. The guy has ALWAYS been a good short/mid-range kicker. It's ironic because he's excelled in his career making those <50 kicks we expected Aguayo to handle.
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby MJW » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:03 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Bryan Anger, Chandler Catanzaro, William Gholston, Evan Smith and Noah Spence count a combined $14mil against the cap next season. If I'm GM, 4 cost effective replacements would be a top priority and it wouldn't be hard to replace at least 4 of them (I'll acknowledge our kicking woes over the years).


I would assume all of them but Catanzaro are gone. Anger has regressed to the mean of his career. Gholston has absolutely disappeared since getting his extension. Smith is trash and we should have had another option before now - that's on Licht and I don't consider it a point to be argued. No way he should be on an NFL roster after the Green Bay game. Spence stings, but unless a different OBP likes him come January, seems like a foregone conclusion.

We'd save almost $5 mil moving on from Dot, who has not played well this season and hasn't played 16 games in a season since 2014 (and is currently battling knee issues again.) I do realize we'd need to cultivate another option to accomplish this. But it's getting to the point where the gap between Dotson and Door B isn't as big as it used to be.

We'd save nearly $4 mil cutting Mitch Unrein. It's tough to have any strong feelings about this.

Also, a reminder that we could trade Cameron Brate (he of 10 targets through four games) this offseason, saving $7 mil with no dead cap hit. I think we'd find a taker, easily.

Just some options. We have lots of avenues to create cap room. We could also restructure David's deal, which would free up about $5 mil.
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:29 am

It would be nice if we could put up 500 points in a season with Winston at the helm.

It would be a turning point for this franchise if we went 6-0 in our division for the first time ever.

Josh Freeman at 6-2 on the road in 2010 can never be taken away from him!
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby Buc2 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:59 am

ComingThisFall wrote:We’re lamenting the fact that we let Bryant leave and he got better. Typical Bucs. And due to that we got to live through the Tynes and Aguayo **** show.

He got better because at least half his games were played in a dome.

Note: The above constitutes my opinion only.
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby ComingThisFall » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:15 am

Buc2 wrote:
ComingThisFall wrote:We’re lamenting the fact that we let Bryant leave and he got better. Typical Bucs. And due to that we got to live through the Tynes and Aguayo **** show.

He got better because at least half his games were played in a dome.

Note: The above constitutes my opinion only.


For sure. Playing in a dome probably played a part. It’s just ridiculous that we haven’t had a reliable kicker since Bryant.
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:56 am

Important game coming up and the fans talk for days about Matt Bryant
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:07 am

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Bryan Anger, Chandler Catanzaro, William Gholston, Evan Smith and Noah Spence count a combined $14mil against the cap next season. If I'm GM, 4 cost effective replacements would be a top priority and it wouldn't be hard to replace at least 4 of them (I'll acknowledge our kicking woes over the years).


I would assume all of them but Catanzaro are gone. Anger has regressed to the mean of his career. Gholston has absolutely disappeared since getting his extension. Smith is trash and we should have had another option before now - that's on Licht and I don't consider it a point to be argued. No way he should be on an NFL roster after the Green Bay game. Spence stings, but unless a different OBP likes him come January, seems like a foregone conclusion.

We'd save almost $5 mil moving on from Dot, who has not played well this season and hasn't played 16 games in a season since 2014 (and is currently battling knee issues again.) I do realize we'd need to cultivate another option to accomplish this. But it's getting to the point where the gap between Dotson and Door B isn't as big as it used to be.

We'd save nearly $4 mil cutting Mitch Unrein. It's tough to have any strong feelings about this.

Also, a reminder that we could trade Cameron Brate (he of 10 targets through four games) this offseason, saving $7 mil with no dead cap hit. I think we'd find a taker, easily.

Just some options. We have lots of avenues to create cap room. We could also restructure David's deal, which would free up about $5 mil.


I don't think we need to free up a ton of space to get our main guys under contract long term (Winston, Smith, Kwon) but we do have other options. Dotson could conceivably be replaced by Cappa. I know they are trying him out at RG 1st but as we've seen with prior non FBS D-1 (Ryan Smith, Ali Marpet) we aren't shy about moving them around until they fit somewhere.

I forgot about Unrein and honestly didn't know he counted that much against the cap. Perhaps we see what he offers when he returns this season and depending on those results make a decision on 2019 later but I agree, wouldn't mind if we saved that cash.
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:12 am

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
As I've stated, selective memory. People never mention the fact that Bryant was injured that offseason and didn't participate in TC or the PS in 2009. That's why he was released. Atlanta didn't sign him until December of that season. I get it, it sucks that we missed out but from 2002-2009 Bryant was nothing more than a mediocre kicker. I dare anyone here to act like we should've practiced patience with him.


You're half right.

It IS 20/20 hindsight in regards to "we just should have kept him." I know I've partaken in it, but ten years of bad kicking will do that.

The part you're wrong about is the "mediocre from 2002-2009" thing. He wasn't a good deep kicker (2 of 10 over 50), but he was really good from inside 50, hitting 92.4% of those kicks in his career before Atlanta. It helps that this was before the rule change on XPs, though he's hit 99.4% of those in Atlanta, so I don't know how much it would have mattered. The guy has ALWAYS been a good short/mid-range kicker. It's ironic because he's excelled in his career making those <50 kicks we expected Aguayo to handle.


If you dissect his results in that manner then I guess you could say he wasn't mediocre. But that would be MJWing, making up specific parameters to fit and argument/agenda. Overall, Bryant was mediocre here. Bottomline. Dread made the point that he wasn't trying to compare him as the next Mortin Anderson but that's exactly how people have treated Bryant's time here, you included with this "well if you take away his 50 yard kicks". Are they not supposed to count?
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:12 am

I know it was preseason, but I thought Liedtke looked damn good- way better than Cappa.
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:26 am

real bucs fan wrote:I know it was preseason, but I thought Liedtke looked damn good- way better than Cappa.


Liedtke, ought to come in so we can have a power run package. (6 linemen).
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby Super K » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:00 am

Door is practicing today according to Stroud:

https://twitter.com/NFLSTROUD/status/10 ... 31328?s=19
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:16 am

Super K wrote:Door is practicing today according to Stroud:

https://twitter.com/NFLSTROUD/status/10 ... 31328?s=19


Who's door?
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:23 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
Super K wrote:Door is practicing today according to Stroud:

https://twitter.com/NFLSTROUD/status/10 ... 31328?s=19


Who's door?


I assume that meant Dotson. All the same people are practicing it sounds like. We'll see who is limited still and if any are upgrade to 'Full'.

Hopefully Grady Jarrett and Devonte Freeman are both out this week. The Falcons defense should be easy to exploit either way, but with no Jarrett, Jones, or Neal the middle of that defense is very subpar and our Oline should be able to impose their will. If not it's a bad sign for the Bucs run game moving forward.
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby Super K » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:37 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Who's door?


I assume that meant Dotson. All the same people are practicing it sounds like. We'll see who is limited still and if any are upgrade to 'Full'.

Hopefully Grady Jarrett and Devonte Freeman are both out this week. The Falcons defense should be easy to exploit either way, but with no Jarrett, Jones, or Neal the middle of that defense is very subpar and our Oline should be able to impose their will. If not it's a bad sign for the Bucs run game moving forward.



I did mean Dot...sorry, I hate this damn phone.. autocorrects everything....I need to be on a 5 second post delay to ensure no misspellings or mistakes...
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby Buc You » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:51 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
Super K wrote:Door is practicing today according to Stroud:

https://twitter.com/NFLSTROUD/status/10 ... 31328?s=19


Who's door?

Evan Smith

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Last edited by Buc You on Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby Buc2 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:00 pm

Super K wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
I assume that meant Dotson. All the same people are practicing it sounds like. We'll see who is limited still and if any are upgrade to 'Full'.

Hopefully Grady Jarrett and Devonte Freeman are both out this week. The Falcons defense should be easy to exploit either way, but with no Jarrett, Jones, or Neal the middle of that defense is very subpar and our Oline should be able to impose their will. If not it's a bad sign for the Bucs run game moving forward.



I did mean Dot...sorry, I hate this damn phone.. autocorrects everything....I need to be on a 5 second post delay to ensure no misspellings or mistakes...

Most phones have a switch in the settings where you can turn off autocorrect.
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby serbiabuc » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:02 pm

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1050789962482929668

these are crazy stats... how is it possible that this guy is not starting?
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Re: ***The OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Bucs Thread***

Postby Rocker » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:09 pm

serbiabuc wrote:https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1050789962482929668

these are crazy stats... how is it possible that this guy is not starting?


Mike Smith.
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