Vegas - Koetter favored to be first coach fired in 2018!!?

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Re: Vegas - Koetter favored to be first coach fired in 2018!

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:54 am

MJW wrote:
terrytate wrote:

Ordinarily it would be hard to argue this. This year however, I think the Browns show up. The playoffs might be wishful thinking but they should be a far more competitive team than we've seen in Cleveland since they were resurrected. If their schedule were not so brutal, I put .500 down as a lock.


This feels like the corner-turning year for them. I haven't said that before. Taylor is the best QB they've had since Bernie Kosar. They might have the best trio of running backs in the league. If Josh Gordon is solid, they have a great collection of targets. The line will be okay, even if they'll miss Joe Thomas. Then you look at all the talent they have on defense...

If you just forgot it was "The Browns" and looked at the roster, you'd say 10 wins.

I agree with this. It's time for them to surge as team and turn some heads. They're my dark horse to win their division.
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Re: Vegas - Koetter favored to be first coach fired in 2018!

Postby Deuce » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:40 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
MJW wrote:
This feels like the corner-turning year for them. I haven't said that before. Taylor is the best QB they've had since Bernie Kosar. They might have the best trio of running backs in the league. If Josh Gordon is solid, they have a great collection of targets. The line will be okay, even if they'll miss Joe Thomas. Then you look at all the talent they have on defense...

If you just forgot it was "The Browns" and looked at the roster, you'd say 10 wins.

I agree with this. It's time for them to surge as team and turn some heads. They're my dark horse to win their division.


I gotta come in and disagree here. First, let's see where they're starting from. 1-31 over the last two seasons. Now, they also lost a HOF LT in Joe Thomas. Ok.

So they've added Tyrod, who's led his team to one winning record ever. I think Tyrod is highly overrated. Don't get me wrong, he's competent. But he's a very safe thrower. He doesn't take chances and definitely isn't afraid to throw the ball away. I can't find any stats on "throw aways" but I'd be surprised if he wasn't a league leader. I just can't go with the idea that he's going to come in and elevate Cleveland. I actually really like Carlos Hyde but we'll see what he can do with that team and Taylor throwing it. Their receiving core is weak if Gordon doesn't start the season.

I can't say I've watched their defense a ton but they did give up the second most PPG last year. Gaines, Randall and Ward are good players but how much of a difference will they really make? Especially Ward, being a rookie.

I'd say they greatly improve over last season and could win 4-5 games. I have no idea how anyone could call this a 10 win team or say they win their division. A team like Baltimore still has a much more talented roster with a lot of continuity.
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Re: Vegas - Koetter favored to be first coach fired in 2018!

Postby MJW » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:51 am

Deuce wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:I agree with this. It's time for them to surge as team and turn some heads. They're my dark horse to win their division.


I gotta come in and disagree here. First, let's see where they're starting from. 1-31 over the last two seasons. Now, they also lost a HOF LT in Joe Thomas. Ok.

So they've added Tyrod, who's led his team to one winning record ever. I think Tyrod is highly overrated. Don't get me wrong, he's competent. But he's a very safe thrower. He doesn't take chances and definitely isn't afraid to throw the ball away. I can't find any stats on "throw aways" but I'd be surprised if he wasn't a league leader. I just can't go with the idea that he's going to come in and elevate Cleveland. I actually really like Carlos Hyde but we'll see what he can do with that team and Taylor throwing it. Their receiving core is weak if Gordon doesn't start the season.

I can't say I've watched their defense a ton but they did give up the second most PPG last year. Gaines, Randall and Ward are good players but how much of a difference will they really make? Especially Ward, being a rookie.

I'd say they greatly improve over last season and could win 4-5 games. I have no idea how anyone could call this a 10 win team or say they win their division. A team like Baltimore still has a much more talented roster with a lot of continuity.


Their 53, right now, is on even footing with Baltimore. They probably have more top-end talent in or near it's prime than the Ravens, though the Ravens have fewer holes. Only the Steelers are clearly superior in terms of talent. Of course, games aren't played on paper. Winning culture doesn't happen overnight. Nobody is quite sure if Jackson can coach or not. But if it was a talent simulation, yes, they're a ten-win team. They're loaded at the skill positions. Kizer to Taylor is the single biggest talent jump any team made at QB this offseason (including some sexier additions.) Their front seven is loaded. They rebuilt their secondary. Again, it's never THAT simple. But you're underselling what they have going right now.
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Re: Vegas - Koetter favored to be first coach fired in 2018!

Postby Deuce » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:57 am

MJW wrote:
Deuce wrote:
I gotta come in and disagree here. First, let's see where they're starting from. 1-31 over the last two seasons. Now, they also lost a HOF LT in Joe Thomas. Ok.

So they've added Tyrod, who's led his team to one winning record ever. I think Tyrod is highly overrated. Don't get me wrong, he's competent. But he's a very safe thrower. He doesn't take chances and definitely isn't afraid to throw the ball away. I can't find any stats on "throw aways" but I'd be surprised if he wasn't a league leader. I just can't go with the idea that he's going to come in and elevate Cleveland. I actually really like Carlos Hyde but we'll see what he can do with that team and Taylor throwing it. Their receiving core is weak if Gordon doesn't start the season.

I can't say I've watched their defense a ton but they did give up the second most PPG last year. Gaines, Randall and Ward are good players but how much of a difference will they really make? Especially Ward, being a rookie.

I'd say they greatly improve over last season and could win 4-5 games. I have no idea how anyone could call this a 10 win team or say they win their division. A team like Baltimore still has a much more talented roster with a lot of continuity.


Their 53, right now, is on even footing with Baltimore. They probably have more top-end talent in or near it's prime than the Ravens, though the Ravens have fewer holes. Only the Steelers are clearly superior in terms of talent. Of course, games aren't played on paper. Winning culture doesn't happen overnight. Nobody is quite sure if Jackson can coach or not. But if it was a talent simulation, yes, they're a ten-win team. They're loaded at the skill positions. Kizer to Taylor is the single biggest talent jump any team made at QB this offseason (including some sexier additions.) Their front seven is loaded. They rebuilt their secondary. Again, it's never THAT simple. But you're underselling what they have going right now.


Agree to disagree, I guess.
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Re: Vegas - Koetter favored to be first coach fired in 2018!

Postby Rocker » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:00 am

It all comes down to mentality for Cleveland. Their roster is good enough to compete.
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Re: Vegas - Koetter favored to be first coach fired in 2018!

Postby DreadNaught » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:27 am

Rocker wrote:It all comes down to mentality for Cleveland. Their roster is good enough to compete.


I could see the Browns going 8-8, but I think that is the ceiling. They are certainly talented enough, but still too many holes and question marks on the roster. In addition teams just normally go from a perpetual 2-3 win team (which the Browns haven't even been that good) to making the playoffs in one season. These Browns are not the late 90's Rams.

But they got good young talent at some key areas and most importantly people in the front office with football acumen instead of those bean counters. If Mayfield isn't a bust I can see them challenging for a the playoffs next season.
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Re: Vegas - Koetter favored to be first coach fired in 2018!

Postby tjax03 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:29 am

BucaRican wrote:Jason Garrett +2000

I am putting my money here.



Ha Jerry Jones will never fire a yes man.

I would fire mike smith before i fire koetter
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Re: Vegas - Koetter favored to be first coach fired in 2018!

Postby Patrick McIrish » Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:00 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Patrick McIrish wrote:PS - not schtick, absolutely Buc fans give Chuck WAY WAY WAY too much credit for our ring......

Come to think of it you are one of those people, if memory serves me right. :P

The Guden won with Dungy's team take is more common than most would like to admit.

Still have to give him credit for finishing the job.



I've always said all you can do it beat the team that lines up against you. We won the SB, you can't do much more than that.

However those with the ability to look at things beyond a superficial level can see Chuck gets way too much of the credit.

When the highlight of your coaching career is correlated to your shortest exposure to said team then it speaks volumes.

In short, the longer a coach is involved with a team, especially with heavy GM input, the more you can judge how good a coach he is.

Chuck won a ring with a team he only had a few months with after getting off the bus and afterwards never won another playoff game.

Touted as an offensive genius he had one top 10 offense, again it was his first year here, the rest he was bottom 3rd consistently.

He was slow to adjust, we were last to allow our QB to get out from under center, his offense was complicated and inefficient.

I still remember after SB him talking about we had seen nothing yet, team had only picked up about half of his playbook. :roll:

He won before the team had time to the forget the discipline Coach Dungy had instilled.

He had the best DC in all of football, one of the best of all time, and Mr McKay provided him depth and talent across the board.

In short? We drug a kicking and screaming Chuck to the title. He got there, ran off our GM, instilled his playbook and the Bucs imploded.

How anyone other than an 8 year old Girl Scout or a casual fan on steroids can't see that is beyond me.

We move on.
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Re: Vegas - Koetter favored to be first coach fired in 2018!

Postby Patrick McIrish » Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:01 pm

tjax03 wrote:
I would fire mike smith before i fire koetter



I just got a semi!!!
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Re: Vegas - Koetter favored to be first coach fired in 2018!

Postby Super K » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:29 am

Patrick McIrish wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:The Guden won with Dungy's team take is more common than most would like to admit.

Still have to give him credit for finishing the job.



I've always said all you can do it beat the team that lines up against you. We won the SB, you can't do much more than that.

However those with the ability to look at things beyond a superficial level can see Chuck gets way too much of the credit.

When the highlight of your coaching career is correlated to your shortest exposure to said team then it speaks volumes.

In short, the longer a coach is involved with a team, especially with heavy GM input, the more you can judge how good a coach he is.

Chuck won a ring with a team he only had a few months with after getting off the bus and afterwards never won another playoff game.

Touted as an offensive genius he had one top 10 offense, again it was his first year here, the rest he was bottom 3rd consistently.

He was slow to adjust, we were last to allow our QB to get out from under center, his offense was complicated and inefficient.

I still remember after SB him talking about we had seen nothing yet, team had only picked up about half of his playbook. :roll:

He won before the team had time to the forget the discipline Coach Dungy had instilled.

He had the best DC in all of football, one of the best of all time, and Mr McKay provided him depth and talent across the board.

In short? We drug a kicking and screaming Chuck to the title. He got there, ran off our GM, instilled his playbook and the Bucs imploded.

How anyone other than an 8 year old Girl Scout or a casual fan on steroids can't see that is beyond me.

We move on.



Hell must've frozen over, because I 1000% agree with this take...
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Re: Vegas - Koetter favored to be first coach fired in 2018!

Postby Rocker » Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:05 pm

It’s pretty easy to create a post about events from over 15 years ago.


Maybe I’ll give it a shot one day.
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