Jameis Winston Contract

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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Doctor » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:14 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Questionmarks, sure.

But Russell Wilson would flourish in this offense.


Most would expect a talented QB going into their 7th season to flourish in an NFL offense as opposed to one going into their 4th year. I've said it once and I will say it again, fans who think top QBs reach their peak at age 24-25 are naive at best. Top QBs in this league all have 6-7 years under their belt. All are in their late 20s/early 30s. This idea of a 24 year old MVP just isn't realistic. And progression is NOT linear. It's a build.

Holy hell, Bootz dropping knowledge bombs today?
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:18 pm

18th in points per game isn't good enough.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Super K » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:40 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:18th in points per game isn't good enough.


I don't disagree with this, or your initial point..However, I also don't disagree with Bootz..
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Nano » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:50 pm

I just realized that Russell Wilson will be 30 this year. Damn
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby PrimeMinister » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:20 pm

Nano wrote:I just realized that Russell Wilson will be 30 this year. Damn


Wilson is one of those players everyone thinks is younger than he is.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:50 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Most would expect a talented QB going into their 7th season to flourish in an NFL offense as opposed to one going into their 4th year. I've said it once and I will say it again, fans who think top QBs reach their peak at age 24-25 are naive at best. Top QBs in this league all have 6-7 years under their belt. All are in their late 20s/early 30s. This idea of a 24 year old MVP just isn't realistic. And progression is NOT linear. It's a build.

Of course he should progres. It's a majority opinion that he has progressed.

But that doesn't change the fact that he has a lot of talent to work with and should play at a high level. If he can't win with this group, we have a problem. And the defense need only be mediocre to eliminate excuses.


Games aren't won on paper. I agree this appears to be our most talented team in a long time. But that still doesn't equal wins nor does it make the QB position any easier to master. The defense has to be more than mediocre for a young QB. You can't name a team with a 24 year old QB that wins consistently and has nothing but mediocre elements around them. The defense will be as big of a factor as Winston in whether we win or not.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:52 pm

Nano wrote:I just realized that Russell Wilson will be 30 this year. Damn


Andrew Luck and Cam Newton hit 30 next year.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Nano » Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:00 pm

Hell, Josh Freeman turned 30 this year. What could've been.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:08 pm

30 is honestly when most QBs start hitting their stride and start being consistency. Thankfully, NFL teams and GMs realize this more than casual fans do.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:40 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:30 is honestly when most QBs start hitting their stride and start being consistency. Thankfully, NFL teams and GMs realize this more than casual fans do.

Kinda like Josh Freeman.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:53 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:30 is honestly when most QBs start hitting their stride and start being consistency. Thankfully, NFL teams and GMs realize this more than casual fans do.

Kinda like Josh Freeman.


No kinda like Brees, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Brady, Alex Smith, Elway to name a few. But you stay with Josh Freeman though, kyddo.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Jason Bourne » Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:57 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Kinda like Josh Freeman.


No kinda like Brees, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Brady, Alex Smith, Elway to name a few. But you stay with Josh Freeman though, kyddo.


Hmmm. Jameis hasn’t gone 10-6 like Josh did . Maybe some day
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:03 pm

Jason Bourne wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
No kinda like Brees, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Brady, Alex Smith, Elway to name a few. But you stay with Josh Freeman though, kyddo.


Hmmm. Jameis hasn’t gone 10-6 like Josh did . Maybe some day


The same 10-6 people around here call fools gold. Which is it? Keep it consistent.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:47 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
Hmmm. Jameis hasn’t gone 10-6 like Josh did . Maybe some day


The same 10-6 people around here call fools gold. Which is it? Keep it consistent.

Good point. We ain't even got fool's gold out of Winston.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:50 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
The same 10-6 people around here call fools gold. Which is it? Keep it consistent.

Good point. We ain't even got fool's gold out of Winston.


With no defense or run game you won't get wins out of a 4th year QB. Keep proving my point though. I thought you knew football, MB.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:01 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Good point. We ain't even got fool's gold out of Winston.


With no defense or run game you won't get wins out of a 4th year QB. Keep proving my point though. I thought you knew football, MB.

I do. But I'm enjoying you wiggle.

Jameis has to do better on the field. If he was all we ever hoped for, there'd never be a question.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:16 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
With no defense or run game you won't get wins out of a 4th year QB. Keep proving my point though. I thought you knew football, MB.

I do. But I'm enjoying you wiggle.

Jameis has to do better on the field. If he was all we ever hoped for, there'd never be a question.


NO QB is all you ever hope for after 3 years. Not on their own accord anyway. But like I said, keep thinking that.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Nano » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:22 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
The same 10-6 people around here call fools gold. Which is it? Keep it consistent.

Good point. We ain't even got fool's gold out of Winston.

We got 9-7 in 2016. Though that was more because the defense randomly turned elite for the final 8 games of the season.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:26 pm

Nano wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Good point. We ain't even got fool's gold out of Winston.

We got 9-7 in 2016. Though that was more because the defense randomly turned elite for the final 8 games of the season.


Yep. And at that stage of a young QBs career you want a defense that’s making plays and helping out in a big way.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Patrick McIrish » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:27 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
Most would expect a talented QB going into their 7th season to flourish in an NFL offense as opposed to one going into their 4th year. I've said it once and I will say it again, fans who think top QBs reach their peak at age 24-25 are naive at best. Top QBs in this league all have 6-7 years under their belt. All are in their late 20s/early 30s. This idea of a 24 year old MVP just isn't realistic. And progression is NOT linear. It's a build.



I agree in large part to your assessments but I think its starts and playing time that is relevant, not so much age or years in the league.

For example a 24 year old with 50 starts is going to be superior to a clipboard holding 30 year old making his first start. Or so fans would hope.

Otherwise, I agree. I think there it's silly to suggest Winston has peaked as a QB at this point in his career.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Konatown » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:06 am

I think it’s safe to assume that once he returns from his 3 game suspension Winston will be the starter the rest of the year barring injury. This coaching staff and possibly Licht’s job depend on this team winning games this year and Winston gives us the best chance to do that. If he plays well, and I anticipate him to, he’ll get his 5th year option next year to show if his play is trending in the right direction and he can stay out of trouble. After that if we’re still not sure, we can franchise him. He’ll be several years removed from the Uber incident by then and we can make the decision to offer that long term deal.


Now if he gets in trouble again or plays poorly, this gives the Bucs an easy out on a non long-term decision on
him. Based on available options next year , I don’t really see any other way this plays out.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby beardmcdoug » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:29 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:I do. But I'm enjoying you wiggle.

Jameis has to do better on the field. If he was all we ever hoped for, there'd never be a question.


NO QB is all you ever hope for after 3 years. Not on their own accord anyway. But like I said, keep thinking that.


Kaepernick was
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby NYBF » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:45 am

beardmcdoug wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
NO QB is all you ever hope for after 3 years. Not on their own accord anyway. But like I said, keep thinking that.


Kaepernick was


Roethlisberger had a ring and 34 wins after his 3rd year. Yeah, he got better, but I can't imagine hoping for more than that in a QB's first 3 seasons.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:59 am

NYBF wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:
Kaepernick was


Roethlisberger had a ring and 34 wins after his 3rd year. Yeah, he got better, but I can't imagine hoping for more than that in a QB's first 3 seasons.


He also had 52 TDS and 43 INTs his 1st 3 years, didn’t have a 20 TD season yet but did throw for more picks than TDS his 3rd year. Casuals always fall into the habit of using team success to dictate how good or bad a QB is without watching the actual tape, which in your case you don’t understand football tape so it’s irrelevant. But for those of you who do understand, Blake Bortles looked better on tape than Ben Roethlisberger at this stage of his career. Ben always wasn’t asked to do much because he didn’t have to. He had a hall of fame defense, hall of fame running game. He just had to not screw up. Worked his 1st 2 seasons, in his 3rd season he had a horrible problem turning the ball over. 5% of his throws ended up being picked off. That’s bad. That’s actually putrid. Winston has never come close to turning the ball over that much. So using Ben’s 1st 3 years as an indicator of what he was at that stage is misleading and as incorrect.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:01 am

NYBF wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:
Kaepernick was


Roethlisberger had a ring and 34 wins after his 3rd year. Yeah, he got better, but I can't imagine hoping for more than that in a QB's first 3 seasons.


I have a tough time giving Ben too much credit for that first ring and that early team success the Steelers had his first 2-3 seasons. BigBen stepped into a situation similar to what Russell Wilson did where his team had the top scoring defense and was tops in rushing yards and attempts. That formula makes it pretty easy for the QB to win alot of games. Let's not forget BigBen averaged UNDER 200yds and only 22 attempts per game each of his first 2 NFL seasons when his record was 22-3 as a starting QB. In fact BigBen averaged 210yds/gm or less in 5 of his first 6 seasons and was 27 years old before he became the perennial 4k yd 25+TDs per season QB we see now.

I get wins are parsed into a QB stat, but in many cases it's a misleading argument imo. Big Ben is those yearly years is prime example.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby beardmcdoug » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:07 am

Why are ya'll talking about Rapeburger - I said Kaepernick
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:26 am

beardmcdoug wrote:Why are ya'll talking about Rapeburger - I said Kaepernick


NY brought up Ben as another example of a QB being all you would hope for after 3 seasons by their own doing. Both of you are entirely incorrect.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby beardmcdoug » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:58 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:Why are ya'll talking about Rapeburger - I said Kaepernick


NY brought up Ben as another example of a QB being all you would hope for after 3 seasons by their own doing. Both of you are entirely incorrect.


proof?
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:13 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
NY brought up Ben as another example of a QB being all you would hope for after 3 seasons by their own doing. Both of you are entirely incorrect.


proof?


It's called tape. We know NY doesn't understand it. Now we know you don't understand tape either. If you did we would not be having this conversation.
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Re: Jameis Winston Contract

Postby beardmcdoug » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:19 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:
proof?


It's called tape. We know NY doesn't understand it. Now we know you don't understand tape either. If you did we would not be having this conversation.


show me the tape
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