Welcome Alex Cappa

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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby MikeC » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:59 am

I would love for this kid to push Sweezy hard but still lose because we find out Sweezy still got it. Then we could have some depth!
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby Super K » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:01 am

We aren't "moving on from Kwon"...Beck is a ,hurt, 2nd year guy who has major limitations in pass coverage....

Sweezy, Gholston, Grimes, DJax all wont be here next year...ditto Evan Smith and Conte (please Lord)

I started this firestorm by bringing up GMac....and my reasoning was in regards to someone tossing it up that we may/may not sign JW...instand by what I said...

Better chance that 30+ year old DT, no matter how many probowls, gets cut before we don't resign our franchise QB...

And Cheb, JW is gonna count much more towards the cap than $20mill....better add $6-$10 mill to that number...
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby Super K » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:03 am

MikeC wrote:I would love for this kid to push Sweezy hard but still lose because we find out Sweezy still got it. Then we could have some depth!


I agree...however I'd add that I'd love to see that competition make us feel good about the kid at RT...

If we could already have Dots replacement in house, we'd be in a great spot..
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby Nano » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:37 am

MJW wrote:Gholston is on borrowed time. He might not even make it out of THIS camp (though I haven't looked at the cap implications of that yet.) If Will Clarke looks good, OBP is going to have to consider moving on from the worst pass rushing 4-3 end in the league and his contract.

Dotson might be playing his last year. It'll likely depend on what moves we're in a position to make next offseason. Donald Penn was 30 when we moved on too soon. Dotson will be 34 in 2019; that's probably not too soon if you feel good about the next man up.

Gholston's money this year is already guaranteed. We could get rid of him but we'll still have to pay him so we probably won't. Dotson I hope we only get rid of if we feel confident about his replacement. He was damn near an All-Pro last year before his injury...if he plays even somewhat close to that, he'll be hard to replace(And imo Cappa is more a guard than a tackle in the NFL)
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby Buc2 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:44 am

Super K wrote:We aren't "moving on from Kwon"...Beck is a ,hurt, 2nd year guy who has major limitations in pass coverage....

Sweezy, Gholston, Grimes, DJax all wont be here next year...ditto Evan Smith and Conte (please Lord)

I started this firestorm by bringing up GMac....and my reasoning was in regards to someone tossing it up that we may/may not sign JW...instand by what I said...

Better chance that 30+ year old DT, no matter how many probowls, gets cut before we don't resign our franchise QB...

And Cheb, JW is gonna count much more towards the cap than $20mill....better add $6-$10 mill to that number...

You're right. This season. 2019? Don't count on it.
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby real bucs fan » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:47 am

The fact Licht specifically mentioned Kwon when talking about his core after drafting Vea means he's here. Licht loves him. Smith loves him. Winston loves him.

We'll find the money elsewhere, I'm not panicking.
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby PrimeMinister » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:51 am

Cheb wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Winston's deal can be achieved. He already is scheduled to count $21mil against the cap. If he's given an extension, the actual cap figure for 2019 won't be much more than that.

When discussing Ali, Donovan, and Kwon ask yourself are those players more valuable than the guys you're proposing us to release.

For me it's a hell no when comparing them to McCoy. McCoy is 30 but he has shown ZERO signs of slowing down. He has his annual injuries but Gerald McCoy at 70% health is still the best defender on this defense by far. We'd have a MUCH harder time finding about Gerald McCoy than we would another Ali Marpet, Donovan Smith or Kwon Alexander. And I like all 3 very much.

Same goes with Lavonte, but you could make a case that we have more at LB and could basically swap his deal out for a new one with Kwon. Out of those 2 though, I'd take Lavonte all day. He's more talented, he's a better player and like McCoy hasn't shown signs of slowing down. I think Kwon is good yet he's a bit overrated around here. He should be better in coverage than he is, misses far too many tackles and wipes himself out of plays far too often. He has trouble sifting thru traffic unlike Lavonte, who when he's on racks up on TFLs. And when comparing his play at Mike, I liked Kendall Beckwith more in 2017. And it doesn't matter if YOU wouldn't call Lavonte an All-Pro or not. He is an All-Pro. 2 time All-Pro in fact.


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Haha 2nd this. Damn good post, Bootz.
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:15 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
theBKwhopper wrote:Well, Winston's cap is gonna go up for one. Ali, Donovan, Kwon. Maybe we don't want to get rid of Jackson because he has a pro bowl year. We gotta find cap room somewhere.

I wouldn't call David an all-pro. He had a decent year last year, but nothing tremendous. Before that he had been up and down. Not worth depleting our depth to keep him.

McCoy is definitely an all-pro, but very expensive. And, he's getting up there in age.

Obviously it depends on how certain players perform this year, and next year.


Winston's deal can be achieved. He already is scheduled to count $21mil against the cap. If he's given an extension, the actual cap figure for 2019 won't be much more than that.

When discussing Ali, Donovan, and Kwon ask yourself are those players more valuable than the guys you're proposing us to release.

For me it's a hell no when comparing them to McCoy. McCoy is 30 but he has shown ZERO signs of slowing down. He has his annual injuries but Gerald McCoy at 70% health is still the best defender on this defense by far. We'd have a MUCH harder time finding about Gerald McCoy than we would another Ali Marpet, Donovan Smith or Kwon Alexander. And I like all 3 very much.

Same goes with Lavonte, but you could make a case that we have more at LB and could basically swap his deal out for a new one with Kwon. Out of those 2 though, I'd take Lavonte all day. He's more talented, he's a better player and like McCoy hasn't shown signs of slowing down. I think Kwon is good yet he's a bit overrated around here. He should be better in coverage than he is, misses far too many tackles and wipes himself out of plays far too often. He has trouble sifting thru traffic unlike Lavonte, who when he's on racks up on TFLs. And when comparing his play at Mike, I liked Kendall Beckwith more in 2017. And it doesn't matter if YOU wouldn't call Lavonte an All-Pro or not. He is an All-Pro. 2 time All-Pro in fact.



This may be the best post you've made. Agree on everything. The idea we cut the first cornerstone player this franchise has had since the Brooks/Barber era and leave all these overpaid FAs is baffling. I'm not sure why there is so much recent support for J.R. Sweezy on here considering he was a below average starter on great Seattle teams, we overpaid him and he misses a whole year and then comes out with another below average season as our RG. He's playing for his future and the fact we drafted Cappa now gives us a young viable, cheaper option to replace him. I still think he lines up at RG when we kick things off in the Super Dome this September, but he's on borrowed time. I would say any player not on their rookie deal except Gerald McCoy, Lavonte David or Mike Evans is on notice in 2018.
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby sonofg » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:33 pm

real bucs fan wrote:The fact Licht specifically mentioned Kwon when talking about his core after drafting Vea means he's here. Licht loves him. Smith loves him. Winston loves him.

We'll find the money elsewhere, I'm not panicking.


Why would it matter if Winston likes him?
This isn't directed specifically at you, but what has Winston shown so far in his career that would make people think he should influence personnel decisions?
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby real bucs fan » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:35 pm

sonofg wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:The fact Licht specifically mentioned Kwon when talking about his core after drafting Vea means he's here. Licht loves him. Smith loves him. Winston loves him.

We'll find the money elsewhere, I'm not panicking.


Why would it matter if Winston likes him?
This isn't directed specifically at you, but what has Winston shown so far in his career that would make people think he should influence personnel decisions?

The point is that he's respected and admired by everyone in the franchise from the GM to the QB.
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby MJW » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:46 pm

The money has to come from somewhere. Good players hit free agency every single year, and it's not because their GMs didn't want to keep them. We're going to be facing a re-signing crunch in the next three years and I'm dubious we'll be able to sign everyone, especially if the 2017 class looks good this coming season. Alexander has missed eight games in three years and is one bad decision away from a ten game suspension. We drafted a guy in the 3rd round last year whose best position is Middle Linebacker. That wasn't a coincidence.

Don't be surprised. That's all.
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby sonofg » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:48 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
sonofg wrote:
Why would it matter if Winston likes him?
This isn't directed specifically at you, but what has Winston shown so far in his career that would make people think he should influence personnel decisions?

The point is that he's respected and admired by everyone in the franchise from the GM to the QB.


Aah, get it. I've seen posts on this forum previously alluding to the influence of Winston (e.g., vetting potential acquisitions through him), so was just wondering.
I agree on the general sentiment that they're not looking to get rid of Kwon anytime soon. He definitely appears to be the emotional leader of the defense.
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby theBKwhopper » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:21 pm

The question is, is his emotional leadership more valuable than.what David brings to the table? Because I'm not sure we'll be able to, keep both of them.
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby real bucs fan » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:24 pm

I don't think Kwon is going to break the bank for all the reasons mentioned. Grimes, Jackson, and Sweezy are all going to be gone.
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:49 pm

MJW wrote:The money has to come from somewhere. Good players hit free agency every single year, and it's not because their GMs didn't want to keep them. We're going to be facing a re-signing crunch in the next three years and I'm dubious we'll be able to sign everyone, especially if the 2017 class looks good this coming season. Alexander has missed eight games in three years and is one bad decision away from a ten game suspension. We drafted a guy in the 3rd round last year whose best position is Middle Linebacker. That wasn't a coincidence.

Don't be surprised. That's all.


Yeah, the more I think about it the more I think Kwon is most likely to test FA. I would let Donovan Smith walk too because if he hits the market someone will pay him way too much, but I'm not sure they want to create a big hole at LT. He's also been Jameis' blindside protector from day one. But if Licht and Koetter are fired the new regime could have different thoughts.
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby Doctor » Tue May 01, 2018 2:08 pm

How much do you people think Kwon is going to demand? Zach Brown and Nigel Bradham are premier LBs and they only got $8M a year on their deals. And they both far outshine our undersized fan favorite. Even so, if he does chase the money let him. Pretty sure Beckwith is here to take over anyway.

Ali and Smith are much harder to price. OL more than any other position seems to really be judged by their last year. JPP will also likely get a rework depending on how his year goes as he's ageing and he's out of guaranteed money and no one likes the play under those conditions. Same to LVD who will have $20M due over the last two years, you'll likely see that redone to give him some more guaranteed as well.

People worry way to much about 2019 cap numbers, when soooo much of it depends on what happens in 2018. Y'all need to chill.
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby Terp » Tue May 01, 2018 2:25 pm

I think Kwon is adequate. His mediocre performance on our team happened to come at a time when our roster lacked any talent on that side of the ball sans McCoy and David, thus in turn making him an overrated fan favorite.

He’s an absolute liability against the pass, and oftentimes gets washed out against the run. His hustle, tackle accumulation, and leadership qualities are great but disguise the fact that he’s really not a special NFL player.
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue May 01, 2018 2:33 pm

Terp wrote:I think Kwon is adequate. His mediocre performance on our team happened to come at a time when our roster lacked any talent on that side of the ball sans McCoy and David, thus in turn making him an overrated fan favorite.

He’s an absolute liability against the pass, and oftentimes gets washed out against the run. His hustle, tackle accumulation, and leadership qualities are great but disguise the fact that he’s really not a special NFL player.


Kwon Alexander in a nut shell. And I think everyone pretty much knows this to be true. The discussion with Kwon always starts with his leadership. Intangibles are nice bring something else to the table.
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby BucaRican » Tue May 01, 2018 3:12 pm

So out of all this, you guys battled me saying we don't need LBs, now all of a sudden we have to get rid of David and Kwon. This is mind boggling.
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby Super K » Tue May 01, 2018 3:23 pm

Terp wrote:I think Kwon is adequate. His mediocre performance on our team happened to come at a time when our roster lacked any talent on that side of the ball sans McCoy and David, thus in turn making him an overrated fan favorite.

He’s an absolute liability against the pass, and oftentimes gets washed out against the run. His hustle, tackle accumulation, and leadership qualities are great but disguise the fact that he’s really not a special NFL player.


All of our LBs are liabilities in pass coverage, LVD included...

Likewise,.both Kwon and LVD tackle worth **** (grabbing, diving, rolling)...

Now, David had a better year in 2017, but that followed up 2 toilet years...Kwon, on the other hand, went backwards..
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby Doctor » Tue May 01, 2018 6:34 pm

I think Alex could be here to replace either Smith, Ali, or Dotson. Doston is coming back from a surgery and if he gets hurt this season we may move on from his $5M cap hit. Cappa will cost about $3.3M over 4 years, and we can then use that money to try and keep Smith or Marpet. We can even franchise tag one and perhaps get a trade out it depending on the contract the other team would offer and we can see if we can match. But it's really early, lots can happen.
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby Ken Carson » Tue May 01, 2018 6:36 pm

Super K wrote:
Terp wrote:I think Kwon is adequate. His mediocre performance on our team happened to come at a time when our roster lacked any talent on that side of the ball sans McCoy and David, thus in turn making him an overrated fan favorite.

He’s an absolute liability against the pass, and oftentimes gets washed out against the run. His hustle, tackle accumulation, and leadership qualities are great but disguise the fact that he’s really not a special NFL player.


All of our LBs are liabilities in pass coverage, LVD included...

Likewise,.both Kwon and LVD tackle worth **** (grabbing, diving, rolling)...

Now, David had a better year in 2017, but that followed up 2 toilet years...Kwon, on the other hand, went backwards..

Bruh, Lavonte has been great for 6 seasons.

And you say stuff like “he’s bad in coverage” with nothing more than your loudmouth opinion. In 2016, when he was in “the toilet” he allowed a reception on 1 of every 11.4 times he was in coverage, 5th fewest of all LBs with enough coverages to qualify.
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby Doctor » Tue May 01, 2018 6:49 pm

There will be a lot of factors in play. Wintson's contract for example. Depending on the year he has he may not want to go into his 5th year with no guaranteed money. He gets hurt that year he losses out on millions looking like a QB who got hurt two out of the last three years with meh years around it. He could take a second tier QB contract like Luck or Wilson or Brees for the guaranteed money.
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby Super K » Wed May 02, 2018 6:40 am

Ken Carson wrote:
Super K wrote:
All of our LBs are liabilities in pass coverage, LVD included...

Likewise,.both Kwon and LVD tackle worth **** (grabbing, diving, rolling)...

Now, David had a better year in 2017, but that followed up 2 toilet years...Kwon, on the other hand, went backwards..

Bruh, Lavonte has been great for 6 seasons.

And you say stuff like “he’s bad in coverage” with nothing more than your loudmouth opinion. In 2016, when he was in “the toilet” he allowed a reception on 1 of every 11.4 times he was in coverage, 5th fewest of all LBs with enough coverages to qualify.


Ken, seriously...take away the stats, wherever you got them, take away the "rankings"...watch him....that's all, just watch him..

He hasn't"been great" for 6 seasons...he did better in pass coverage in 2017...2015 and 2016 he was not good...

I don't understand the sacred cows around here...

D Smith has a range of top 15 OT or trash...

Our franchise QB gets applauded 1 second, torched the next and it's alluded that we may NOT resign him..

Our 4th round pick, 3 year starting MLB is now expendable because of a hurt and unproven 3rd round pick MLB from a year ago...

But critique GMac and/or LVD and here come the torches and pitchforks...
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby Cheb » Wed May 02, 2018 7:54 am

Super K wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:Bruh, Lavonte has been great for 6 seasons.

And you say stuff like “he’s bad in coverage” with nothing more than your loudmouth opinion. In 2016, when he was in “the toilet” he allowed a reception on 1 of every 11.4 times he was in coverage, 5th fewest of all LBs with enough coverages to qualify.


Ken, seriously...take away the stats, wherever you got them, take away the "rankings"...watch him....that's all, just watch him..

He hasn't"been great" for 6 seasons...he did better in pass coverage in 2017...2015 and 2016 he was not good...

I don't understand the sacred cows around here...

D Smith has a range of top 15 OT or trash...

Our franchise QB gets applauded 1 second, torched the next and it's alluded that we may NOT resign him..

Our 4th round pick, 3 year starting MLB is now expendable because of a hurt and unproven 3rd round pick MLB from a year ago...

But critique GMac and/or LVD and here come the torches and pitchforks...


Gerald and LVD take turns being the best defensive player of the game and have done so for years. When you talk cornerstones of the franchise, they are cornerstones of the franchise, hard stop. They've both been great since we drafted them. Some years are better than others, but they are consistently excellent.

One day their play will fall off, and the Bucs may cut them for cap purposes. They may have swan songs with other teams, like Sapp did in Oakland or Lynch did in Denver. But that day has not yet come.
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby Super K » Wed May 02, 2018 8:21 am

Cheb wrote:
Super K wrote:
Ken, seriously...take away the stats, wherever you got them, take away the "rankings"...watch him....that's all, just watch him..

He hasn't"been great" for 6 seasons...he did better in pass coverage in 2017...2015 and 2016 he was not good...

I don't understand the sacred cows around here...

D Smith has a range of top 15 OT or trash...

Our franchise QB gets applauded 1 second, torched the next and it's alluded that we may NOT resign him..

Our 4th round pick, 3 year starting MLB is now expendable because of a hurt and unproven 3rd round pick MLB from a year ago...

But critique GMac and/or LVD and here come the torches and pitchforks...


Gerald and LVD take turns being the best defensive player of the game and have done so for years. When you talk cornerstones of the franchise, they are cornerstones of the franchise, hard stop. They've both been great since we drafted them. Some years are better than others, but they are consistently excellent.

One day their play will fall off, and the Bucs may cut them for cap purposes. They may have swan songs with other teams, like Sapp did in Oakland or Lynch did in Denver. But that day has not yet come.


Thanks...we'll call this "Exhibit A" in support of my argument above..
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby Ken Carson » Wed May 02, 2018 5:36 pm

Super K wrote:
Ken Carson wrote:Bruh, Lavonte has been great for 6 seasons.

And you say stuff like “he’s bad in coverage” with nothing more than your loudmouth opinion. In 2016, when he was in “the toilet” he allowed a reception on 1 of every 11.4 times he was in coverage, 5th fewest of all LBs with enough coverages to qualify.


Ken, seriously...take away the stats, wherever you got them, take away the "rankings"...watch him....that's all, just watch him..

He hasn't"been great" for 6 seasons...he did better in pass coverage in 2017...2015 and 2016 he was not good...

I don't understand the sacred cows around here...

D Smith has a range of top 15 OT or trash...

Our franchise QB gets applauded 1 second, torched the next and it's alluded that we may NOT resign him..

Our 4th round pick, 3 year starting MLB is now expendable because of a hurt and unproven 3rd round pick MLB from a year ago...

But critique GMac and/or LVD and here come the torches and pitchforks...

No, it is when you say really dumb stuff that get out my torch and pitchfork. Lavonte has been great since joining the team. You claime two things... that he is bad in coverage (already refuted), and that he tackles for ****. Has he missed a few tackles? Sure. Is he a poor tackler? No. He is top 30 in the league every season in tackling efficiency (tackle opportunities/tackles missed). He has been top 20 4 of 6 years. You remember him missing a few and formed an opinion.

The league keeps track of how many INT/tackles/sacks/PDs a guy makes on 3rd down that prevent a first down, called a ‘defeat.’ Guy who leads the league in defeats since 2012? Lavonte David. He has singlehandedly ended more drives than ANY DEFENDER IN THE LEAGUE in his 6 years playing for us.

So tell me again to ‘watch him.’ Clown.
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby Caradoc » Wed May 02, 2018 5:46 pm

MJW wrote:I will be pleasantly surprised if D-Jax or Sweezy are part of the 2019 Buccaneers, because it will mean they showed a lot more in 2018 than in 2017.


I'm going to take issue with this sentence. Not because of the Sweezy part, but because of the implied swipe at DJax. While he may not be here in 2019, implying he didn't show enough in 2017 is pure BS. He did everything we could ask him for (except throw some TD's to himself, but hey, he's no Marcus Mariota). It wasn't his fault Winston can't hit the broad side of a barn past 30 yards.
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby Super K » Wed May 02, 2018 5:50 pm

Ken Carson wrote:
Super K wrote:
Ken, seriously...take away the stats, wherever you got them, take away the "rankings"...watch him....that's all, just watch him..

He hasn't"been great" for 6 seasons...he did better in pass coverage in 2017...2015 and 2016 he was not good...

I don't understand the sacred cows around here...

D Smith has a range of top 15 OT or trash...

Our franchise QB gets applauded 1 second, torched the next and it's alluded that we may NOT resign him..

Our 4th round pick, 3 year starting MLB is now expendable because of a hurt and unproven 3rd round pick MLB from a year ago...

But critique GMac and/or LVD and here come the torches and pitchforks...

No, it is when you say really dumb stuff that get out my torch and pitchfork. Lavonte has been great since joining the team. You claime two things... that he is bad in coverage (already refuted), and that he tackles for ****. Has he missed a few tackles? Sure. Is he a poor tackler? No. He is top 30 in the league every season in tackling efficiency (tackle opportunities/tackles missed). He has been top 20 4 of 6 years. You remember him missing a few and formed an opinion.

The league keeps track of how many INT/tackles/sacks/PDs a guy makes on 3rd down that prevent a first down, called a ‘defeat.’ Guy who leads the league in defeats since 2012? Lavonte David. He has singlehandedly ended more drives than ANY DEFENDER IN THE LEAGUE in his 6 years playing for us.

So tell me again to ‘watch him.’ Clown.


So now stats and ratings are a good/great measuring stick for how a player performs....

Good to know....

Citing "tackling" stats is even better...I don't think you could've picked a more subjective quantitative measure in the damn sport...

And I didn't say he doesn't "get" a lot of tackles, I said he "tackles for ****" (so does Kwon btw)...

They leave their feet, usually have their heads down, reach instead of moving their feet, grab and roll instead of measuring up and driving backwards..

Now take the little hissy fit you're throwing about one of your mancrushes and direct it towards the thread where folks are laughing at/criticizing Gruden jamming up the Raiders (already)...
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Re: Welcome Alex Cappa

Postby DreadNaught » Wed May 02, 2018 5:51 pm

Caradoc wrote:
MJW wrote:I will be pleasantly surprised if D-Jax or Sweezy are part of the 2019 Buccaneers, because it will mean they showed a lot more in 2018 than in 2017.


I'm going to take issue with this sentence. Not because of the Sweezy part, but because of the implied swipe at DJax. While he may not be here in 2019, implying he didn't show enough in 2017 is pure BS. He did everything we could ask him for (except throw some TD's to himself, but hey, he's no Marcus Mariota). It wasn't his fault Winston can't hit the broad side of a barn past 30 yards.


Djax didn't show enough in 2017 to where that same production in 2018 would warrant bringing him back for a 3rd season in 2019 at $11m.

I don't view that as a controversial take or a direct swipe at Jackson necessarily.
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