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Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:30 pm
by ComingThisFall
Welcome back Chuck. Remember that catch and run against ATL? Let’s get some more of those

To the OP. When I first glanced at the thread title I thought, Well he sure aint ************

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:36 pm
by terrytate
Hatter wrote:
terrytate wrote:

We are all but certain to draft a back in rounds 1-4.


4 RB's?
:shock:
8-)



The WIshbone is making a comeback bruh.

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:20 pm
by ComingThisFall
terrytate wrote:
Hatter wrote:
4 RB's?
:shock:
8-)



The WIshbone is making a comeback bruh.


The Wishbone will stand no chance against a 3-4 Nickle

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:45 pm
by Miller4Prez64
real bucs fan wrote:I like Sims, and happy to see him back. Great 3rd back. Just need to get that #1 now...


He's not a great 3rd back, not even close anymore. In 2015 he flashed signs of a playmaking 3rd down back, but he had some knee issues and despite the fact that he played in all 16 games last year he was completely ineffective and brought NOTHING to the table despite us desperately needing someone making plays out of the backfield. I understand we need to fill the roster out and have competition in camp, but this guy had his chance and has been nothing short of a bum. I really hope some fresh legs send him and Rodgers home this fall.

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 4:53 am
by MJW
Revisiting this a bit because it makes more sense post-draft. RoJo is not a great fit as a 3rd down back. Barber never was. Even if Sims is only on the field for 10-15 snaps a game, I think he'll be useful if he wins a spot.

That said...keep an eye on Shaun Wilson, and UFA from Duke. He'll be competing with Quizz (and possibly Sims) for a roster spot. I like his odds. He's not very big but he actually reminds me a bit of Sims.


Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 6:24 am
by Hatter
I like Shaun Wilson and REALLY hope he beats Sims out for a spot. I have had enough of Sims "Happy feet" indecision on where to run, that experiment has ran its course IMO.

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 7:10 am
by Bootz2004
Add Wilson to the extremely long list of undrafted fan favorites I guess. I see a small back with no speed, doesn't look very athletic and not much strength. He's a bit shifty and that might help in the return game and seems to be a good pass catcher. But like all of these favorites he's the new guy in town and we all know the new guy is the most popular.

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 7:24 am
by Mountaineer Buc
Bootz2004 wrote:Add Wilson to the extremely long list of undrafted fan favorites I guess. I see a small back with no speed, doesn't look very athletic and not much strength. He's a bit shifty and that might help in the return game and seems to be a good pass catcher. But like all of these favorites he's the new guy in town and we all know the new guy is the most popular.

Agreed with the assessment. He doesn't look all that spectacular.

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 7:30 am
by Super K
I think Auman posted on Twitter that Sims got a $800K contract...which, to me, shows that Licht/DK aren't completely sold in him either...

Maybe Wilson takes his spot, maybe not..

But the idea of making Sims our 3rd down guy (again) makes me sick... COMPLETELY plays our hand, especially with DKs uninspired play calling (Sims runs the smoke screen when out wide or a fly route...book it)...

IF RoJo and Barber demonstrate that they can pass block/pick up the blitz, I'd much rather go with them and keep the defense off balance and give up the upside/potential of having Sims out there..

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 8:36 am
by mdb1958
Super K wrote:I think Auman posted on Twitter that Sims got a $800K contract...which, to me, shows that Licht/DK aren't completely sold in him either...

Maybe Wilson takes his spot, maybe not..

But the idea of making Sims our 3rd down guy (again) makes me sick... COMPLETELY plays our hand, especially with DKs uninspired play calling (Sims runs the smoke screen when out wide or a fly route...book it)...

IF RoJo and Barber demonstrate that they can pass block/pick up the blitz, I'd much rather go with them and keep the defense off balance and give up the upside/potential of having Sims out there..


Most teams feel they can limit us running the ball. If its dominate - hold our own - establish.

Most often #3 is what we are attempting. I think some of Koetters play calling is to diminish the weaknesses of the offensive line. Once again, I'll be looking to see if we can run outside the tackles. If that is still cut off - it cuts into the plays we can run.

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 8:48 am
by real bucs fan
Super K wrote:I think Auman posted on Twitter that Sims got a $800K contract...which, to me, shows that Licht/DK aren't completely sold in him either...

Maybe Wilson takes his spot, maybe not..

But the idea of making Sims our 3rd down guy (again) makes me sick... COMPLETELY plays our hand, especially with DKs uninspired play calling (Sims runs the smoke screen when out wide or a fly route...book it)...

IF RoJo and Barber demonstrate that they can pass block/pick up the blitz, I'd much rather go with them and keep the defense off balance and give up the upside/potential of having Sims out there..


When it's 3rd and long, we'll be passing the ball 90% of the time. There's no hand tipping to worry about.

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 9:05 am
by DreadNaught
I'm fine with Sims being the RB in 3rd and long or in the 2-min (hurry-up) offense when it's known passing situations. His skillset is adequate for that roll and he can certainly make guys miss when healthy.

But he's just not a good runner in a traditional sense. That ship as sailed imo.

I'm looking forward to seeing how capable Ronald Jones is in the pass game come training camp/preseason. That is what is going to hold him back from being a 3rd down player for the Bucs. In an deal scenario we can use Payton Barber and Jones similar to how the Saints used Ingram/Kamara, where Jones is our 3rd down and change of pace RB that gets about 8-10 carries and a few receptions early on.

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 9:18 am
by Doctor
real bucs fan wrote:
Super K wrote:I think Auman posted on Twitter that Sims got a $800K contract...which, to me, shows that Licht/DK aren't completely sold in him either...

Maybe Wilson takes his spot, maybe not..

But the idea of making Sims our 3rd down guy (again) makes me sick... COMPLETELY plays our hand, especially with DKs uninspired play calling (Sims runs the smoke screen when out wide or a fly route...book it)...

IF RoJo and Barber demonstrate that they can pass block/pick up the blitz, I'd much rather go with them and keep the defense off balance and give up the upside/potential of having Sims out there..


When it's 3rd and long, we'll be passing the ball 90% of the time. There's no hand tipping to worry about.

Right? I love how people are like "man we're telegraphing that we're passing by putting in Sims on 3rd and 7"....

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 10:42 am
by Cheb
real bucs fan wrote:
Super K wrote:I think Auman posted on Twitter that Sims got a $800K contract...which, to me, shows that Licht/DK aren't completely sold in him either...

Maybe Wilson takes his spot, maybe not..

But the idea of making Sims our 3rd down guy (again) makes me sick... COMPLETELY plays our hand, especially with DKs uninspired play calling (Sims runs the smoke screen when out wide or a fly route...book it)...

IF RoJo and Barber demonstrate that they can pass block/pick up the blitz, I'd much rather go with them and keep the defense off balance and give up the upside/potential of having Sims out there..


When it's 3rd and long, we'll be passing the ball 90% of the time. There's no hand tipping to worry about.


Sims is probably the best third down back on the roster as it stands today. RoJo can be that guy in time, as could Peyton Barber, but Sims is by far the superior pass blocker and route runner today. If he's the designated third down guy, I'm cool with that.

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 11:04 am
by real bucs fan
Cheb wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:
When it's 3rd and long, we'll be passing the ball 90% of the time. There's no hand tipping to worry about.


Sims is probably the best third down back on the roster as it stands today. RoJo can be that guy in time, as could Peyton Barber, but Sims is by far the superior pass blocker and route runner today. If he's the designated third down guy, I'm cool with that.

For sure, as much as he sucks running the ball, he's certainly a weapon the pass game. While he's one dimensional, that dimension is oddly a nice fit in our RB room. The face we signed him on draft day tells me that the Bucs we're targeting RoJo all along.

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 11:18 am
by Super K
Doctor wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:
When it's 3rd and long, we'll be passing the ball 90% of the time. There's no hand tipping to worry about.

Right? I love how people are like "man we're telegraphing that we're passing by putting in Sims on 3rd and 7"....


It's not that we are telegraphing whether it's pass/run...

It's what kind of pass...what kind of route etc..

Dumbass DK does the same thing with that stupid smokescreen to Humph AND the the Evans double move fade...


Get more creative...the throwback/bomb to OJ was pretty damn good...as was the screen to OJ (Miami game?) That got called back and the TD JW tossed to him (OJ) against ATL at home...

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 11:21 am
by real bucs fan
Super K wrote:
Doctor wrote:Right? I love how people are like "man we're telegraphing that we're passing by putting in Sims on 3rd and 7"....


It's not that we are telegraphing whether it's pass/run...

It's what kind of pass...what kind of route etc..

Dumbass DK does the same thing with that stupid smokescreen to Humph AND the the Evans double move fade...


Get more creative...the throwback/bomb to OJ was pretty damn good...as was the screen to OJ (Miami game?) That got called back and the TD JW tossed to him (OJ) against ATL at home...

Were we not literally the best 3rd and long team in the NFL last year? The problem was that we had so many of them due to not being able to run the ball...

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 11:31 am
by Super K
real bucs fan wrote:
Super K wrote:
It's not that we are telegraphing whether it's pass/run...

It's what kind of pass...what kind of route etc..

Dumbass DK does the same thing with that stupid smokescreen to Humph AND the the Evans double move fade...


Get more creative...the throwback/bomb to OJ was pretty damn good...as was the screen to OJ (Miami game?) That got called back and the TD JW tossed to him (OJ) against ATL at home...

Were we not literally the best 3rd and long team in the NFL last year? The problem was that we had so many of them due to not being able to run the ball...


What does that have to do with how Sims is used?

That's like saying "we are the best at 3rd and long so don't worry about JW working on his deep ball."

If you/we want Sims as our 3rd down back and utilize him to his fullest potential, than DK needs to get more creative with him. End of story.

Otherwise, let RoJo or Barber play and at least we have the threat of something else happening.

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 11:49 am
by real bucs fan
Super K wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Were we not literally the best 3rd and long team in the NFL last year? The problem was that we had so many of them due to not being able to run the ball...


What does that have to do with how Sims is used?

That's like saying "we are the best at 3rd and long so don't worry about JW working on his deep ball."

If you/we want Sims as our 3rd down back and utilize him to his fullest potential, than DK needs to get more creative with him. End of story.

Otherwise, let RoJo or Barber play and at least we have the threat of something else happening.

You're criticizing Koetter for his 3rd and long playcalling when we're best in the league lol

Anyways, I'm happy to have Sims back. And happy to have RoJo and Barber as our 1-2 too, having a run game and being able to better utilize playaction (don't bother Naismith) is just going to make us a tremendous offense.

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 1:05 pm
by Super K
real bucs fan wrote:
Super K wrote:
What does that have to do with how Sims is used?

That's like saying "we are the best at 3rd and long so don't worry about JW working on his deep ball."

If you/we want Sims as our 3rd down back and utilize him to his fullest potential, than DK needs to get more creative with him. End of story.

Otherwise, let RoJo or Barber play and at least we have the threat of something else happening.

You're criticizing Koetter for his 3rd and long playcalling when we're best in the league lol

Anyways, I'm happy to have Sims back. And happy to have RoJo and Barber as our 1-2 too, having a run game and being able to better utilize playaction (don't bother Naismith) is just going to make us a tremendous offense.


Incorrect, I am being critical of DKs play calling when Sims is in the game...

Yes, at times, that is 3rd and long...so I guess ya got me, right?

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:35 pm
by PrimeMinister
Super K wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:You're criticizing Koetter for his 3rd and long playcalling when we're best in the league lol

Anyways, I'm happy to have Sims back. And happy to have RoJo and Barber as our 1-2 too, having a run game and being able to better utilize playaction (don't bother Naismith) is just going to make us a tremendous offense.


Incorrect, I am being critical of DKs play calling when Sims is in the game...

Yes, at times, that is 3rd and long...so I guess ya got me, right?


When Sims was in on 3rd down how often was the smokescreen called? I ask because it seems that’s your main issue.

Edit: Also what was the success rate of the smokescreen?

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:37 pm
by Caradoc
The problem with Sims being in isn't on third and long. It's when we put him in on 3rd and 5 or less.

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 4:20 pm
by mdb1958
Crossan needs a good look to, who is going to watch the team?

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 5:05 pm
by Bootz2004
We carry 4 backs on the roster. Each of them has a specific role. Sims role is the 3rd down/pass catching back. He does it well. He doesn't drop passes. 73% of the passes thrown his way are caught. He ran for 4.5 yards a pop last year. And he's very good as a pass protector. You could do a lot worse than Charles Sims as your 3rd RB on the depth chart.

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 5:34 pm
by mdb1958
Bootz2004 wrote:We carry 4 backs on the roster. Each of them has a specific role. Sims role is the 3rd down/pass catching back. He does it well. He doesn't drop passes. 73% of the passes thrown his way are caught. He ran for 4.5 yards a pop last year. And he's very good as a pass protector. You could do a lot worse than Charles Sims as your 3rd RB on the depth chart.


I watched tape on Crossan and Wilson, both looked pretty good. I think both should get a chance to battle Rodgers (who is one tough little dude) and let the winner take the spot and one or both of the other two could go on the practice squad.

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 8:34 am
by MJW
Bootz2004 wrote:I see a small back with no speed, doesn't look very athletic and not much strength. He's a bit shifty and that might help in the return game and seems to be a good pass catcher.


Certainly small.

No speed? I don't think he's lose a foot race to RoJo. He ran a 4.43 at his Pro Day and there are plenty of clips of his winning the angle at the third level. I'm not sure what "athletic" means in this context. He has good vision and seems to adjust and react quickly to what he sees.

He is shifty, and he was a very good return guy in college with soft hands. Nobody is saying he'll be a star. But he has a real good shot at unseat Quizz as the 4th back.

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 9:04 am
by mdb1958
MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:I see a small back with no speed, doesn't look very athletic and not much strength. He's a bit shifty and that might help in the return game and seems to be a good pass catcher.


Certainly small.

No speed? I don't think he's lose a foot race to RoJo. He ran a 4.43 at his Pro Day and there are plenty of clips of his winning the angle at the third level. I'm not sure what "athletic" means in this context. He has good vision and seems to adjust and react quickly to what he sees.

He is shifty, and he was a very good return guy in college with soft hands. Nobody is saying he'll be a star. But he has a real good shot at unseat Quizz as the 4th back.



Crossan ran a 4.46

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 9:50 am
by Bootz2004
MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:I see a small back with no speed, doesn't look very athletic and not much strength. He's a bit shifty and that might help in the return game and seems to be a good pass catcher.


Certainly small.

No speed? I don't think he's lose a foot race to RoJo. He ran a 4.43 at his Pro Day and there are plenty of clips of his winning the angle at the third level. I'm not sure what "athletic" means in this context. He has good vision and seems to adjust and react quickly to what he sees.

He is shifty, and he was a very good return guy in college with soft hands. Nobody is saying he'll be a star. But he has a real good shot at unseat Quizz as the 4th back.


I'm sure he could win a foot race with Rojo in shorts. But on the football field, which is the context I'm using, I see a guy that's not going breakaway from LBs or many defenders. Especially if he has to stop and start. From the little I've seen I have no opinion on his vision. But he's not going to break many tackles or push any piles. If he has to adjust to passes they'll likely be incomplete.

I wouldn't be shocked if he unseated Rodgers. He's 4th on the depth chart and has the highest salary amongst RBs on this team. Wilson would have 4 extremely cost effective years of control. For that reason alone I'd make him or any other RB a sure fire bet to replace Rodgers.

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 11:03 am
by Cheb
Shaun Wilson is a poor man's Donnel Pumphrey. If he makes the roster I'll be surprised.

Re: Charles Sims: Back

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 11:09 am
by Bootz2004
Cheb wrote:Shaun Wilson is a poor man's Donnel Pumphrey. If he makes the roster I'll be surprised.


He's cheap. It could happen but that would be the reason IMO.