***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby MJW » Thu May 03, 2018 5:27 am

theBKwhopper wrote:One thing I love about the selections of Davis and Stewart is that it will force Hargreaves to earn his way. Not only was he going to have to compete for outside with Smith, and now Davis, but now he has to compete with MJ just to play Nickel.


Truth. Nothing gift-wrapped. If he doesn't show up ready to go, between Grimes coming back, Carlton Davis, Stewart, maybe Ryan Smith...he could find himself getting a dozen snaps a game. In which case, he's likely forfeiting the $10 million dollar check he'd have coming for his 5th year option.

VHIII making good or not should be one of the biggest stories heading into this season. He'd make a huge difference if he could be 75% of what he was drafted to be.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby theBKwhopper » Thu May 03, 2018 11:53 am

MJW wrote:
theBKwhopper wrote:One thing I love about the selections of Davis and Stewart is that it will force Hargreaves to earn his way. Not only was he going to have to compete for outside with Smith, and now Davis, but now he has to compete with MJ just to play Nickel.


Truth. Nothing gift-wrapped. If he doesn't show up ready to go, between Grimes coming back, Carlton Davis, Stewart, maybe Ryan Smith...he could find himself getting a dozen snaps a game. In which case, he's likely forfeiting the $10 million dollar check he'd have coming for his 5th year option.

VHIII making good or not should be one of the biggest stories heading into this season. He'd make a huge difference if he could be 75% of what he was drafted to be.

VH3 being 75% of what he was drafted to be would be a wet dream compared to what he's been.

If the competition pushes that group to a level of excellence, CB could end up our deepest unit. What a turnaround that would be, eh?
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby real bucs fan » Sat May 05, 2018 10:57 am

So if Stewart is competing with VHIII for the Nickel spot... does that mean it's Ryan Smith vs Davis outside to start opposite Grimes? Really hope Davis can step in and be a quality starter for us, not sure I have much faith in Smith at this point.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby PrimeMinister » Sat May 05, 2018 10:59 am

I think VHIII will get another shot at outside corner with the improved pass rush, but if he shows he is best in the slot Koetter won’t force it.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby real bucs fan » Sat May 05, 2018 11:04 am

PrimeMinister wrote:I think VHIII will get another shot at outside corner with the improved pass rush, but if he shows he is best in the slot Koetter won’t force it.

True, I'm mostly going off of Koetters praise of him at Nickel, and I do think at worst he can be a great nickel... but having him compete with Davis and Smith for that outside spot opposite Grimes has the Stewart pick make more sense. I don't think we'd take Stewart there unless we thought he was a plug and play nickel.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat May 05, 2018 11:16 am

I hope Hargreaves steps up and plays efficiently outside. Corner is a hard position and it takes time to master it. Sometimes a step back is necessary for a player to correct some things. I'd bet on him before I bet on 2 rookies or Ryan Smith to provide quality play at corner.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby PrimeMinister » Sat May 05, 2018 11:43 am

Bootz2004 wrote:I hope Hargreaves steps up and plays efficiently outside. Corner is a hard position and it takes time to master it. Sometimes a step back is necessary for a player to correct some things. I'd bet on him before I bet on 2 rookies or Ryan Smith to provide quality play at corner.


This. I hope he becomes the CB1 we thought he would be. With another year under his belt and the improved pass rush I think it’ll allow Hargreaves to be more aggressive and therefore a better corner.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby real bucs fan » Sat May 05, 2018 11:50 am

It's definitely show and prove time for Hargreaves, as of now he's on track to not have that 5th year option picked up next year. Haven't written him off yet by any means, but another crap season and I think the "bust" word will be justified.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat May 05, 2018 11:53 am

PrimeMinister wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:I hope Hargreaves steps up and plays efficiently outside. Corner is a hard position and it takes time to master it. Sometimes a step back is necessary for a player to correct some things. I'd bet on him before I bet on 2 rookies or Ryan Smith to provide quality play at corner.


This. I hope he becomes the CB1 we thought he would be. With another year under his belt and the improved pass rush I think it’ll allow Hargreaves to be more aggressive and therefore a better corner.


Yep a better pass rush will let him focus on what he does best which is taking the ball away.

Another very thing to put in perspective VH3 is younger than Vita Vea despite having 2 more years of experience. At 22 I'm not close to throwing in the towel on him and labeling him a bust.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby Super K » Sat May 05, 2018 12:03 pm

I don't want to write him off either, but he's gotta show some aggression this year...

I can live with mistakes from young players...can't live with them being passive/hesitant...
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby Hatter » Sat May 05, 2018 12:17 pm

I know Licht doesn't want to give up on Ryan Smith but I read a piece that pointed out ALL his faults and if he is the obvious worst in camp I can see them cutting him instead of the new promising guys.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby VauntedTampa2 » Sat May 05, 2018 12:21 pm

I would like to read that, mad-hatter.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat May 05, 2018 12:28 pm

Me too. I think Smith does some good things and would certainly earn a spot on this team ahead of the Maurice Flemings and Javien Elliots of the world.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby PrimeMinister » Sat May 05, 2018 12:29 pm

VauntedTampa2 wrote:I would like to read that, mad-hatter.


Thirded. I’d like to read that as well.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby Hatter » Sat May 05, 2018 12:32 pm

VauntedTampa2 wrote:I would like to read that, mad-hatter.


Can't find the article but this grade write up on Bleacher Report was quoted in it.

75. Ryan Smith, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Coverage: 12/25
Reaction: 11/25
Recovery: 12/25
Tackling: 7/15
Position Value: 10/10
Overall Grade: 52/100
There may not have been a more overwhelmed corner to earn more than 500 snaps than Smith. The 2016 fourth-round pick appeared to be guessing at routes with little consideration for how much help he had. His struggles with staying in position to challenge at the catch point were a major issue, and offenses routinely targeted his side of the field. He was unfit to be the third boundary corner in 2017.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2754 ... son#slide2

If even the walk on undrafteds show more aptitude, he's gone IMO.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sat May 05, 2018 2:06 pm

Thing about VH3 is translating his effort into skill.

He's got both, but he's relying more on effort. He plays his ass off, but often wasn't where he needed to be.

I'm still rooting for him.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby Bootz2004 » Sat May 05, 2018 2:11 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:Thing about VH3 is translating his effort into skill.

He's got both, but he's relying more on effort. He plays his ass off, but often wasn't where he needed to be.

I'm still rooting for him.


He definitely lacked confidence in his skills last season. I hope he regains that confidence because as you stated the effort is not a question. He goes hard out there and never appears to be loafing. I believe he takesthe next step this season.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby The Outsider » Sat May 05, 2018 5:32 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Thing about VH3 is translating his effort into skill.

He's got both, but he's relying more on effort. He plays his ass off, but often wasn't where he needed to be.

I'm still rooting for him.


He definitely lacked confidence in his skills last season. I hope he regains that confidence because as you stated the effort is not a question. He goes hard out there and never appears to be loafing. I believe he takesthe next step this season.


The last half of his rookie season he actually put it all together and that was a big part of why we finished so strong. I'll take that VH3 pls.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby Caradoc » Sat May 05, 2018 5:55 pm

Phantom Phenom wrote:James who ?



James Wilson, our QB
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby sonofg » Sun May 06, 2018 4:21 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:
This. I hope he becomes the CB1 we thought he would be. With another year under his belt and the improved pass rush I think it’ll allow Hargreaves to be more aggressive and therefore a better corner.


Yep a better pass rush will let him focus on what he does best which is taking the ball away.

Another very thing to put in perspective VH3 is younger than Vita Vea despite having 2 more years of experience. At 22 I'm not close to throwing in the towel on him and labeling him a bust.


Agree. With the exception of guys like Patrick Peterson and Jalen Ramsey, CB seems to be one of the positions where it often takes a couple of years. He definitely appears to have the skills. Excited to see what he can do with improved pressure up front.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby doooshnzl » Sun May 06, 2018 7:49 pm

IMHO, we could have the same discussion (VH3) about Noah Spence. Granted, Spence has been injured a good bit of his pro career but the long and the short of it is that he will wear the “bust” tag if he doesn’t produce this year.

On the flip side, what a shot it would be for this D if VH3 hits the level talked of above and Spence stays healthy and becomes a force on the edge. With the off season acquisitions and the rooks this D could take a major step.

But I’m not gonna start counting chickens any time soon.
Last edited by doooshnzl on Sun May 06, 2018 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby Teitan » Sun May 06, 2018 7:55 pm

doooshnzl wrote:IMHO, we could have the same discussion (VH3) about Akeem Spence. Granted, Spence has been injured a good bit of his pro career but the long and the short of it is that he will wear the “bust” tag if he doesn’t produce this year.

On the flip side, what a shot it would be for this D if VH3 hits the level talked of above and Spence stays healthy and becomes a force on the edge. With the off season acquisitions and the rooks this D could take a major step.

But I’m not gonna start counting chickens any time soon.


I was confused until i realized you were talking about Noah Spence.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun May 06, 2018 7:57 pm

doooshnzl wrote:IMHO, we could have the same discussion (VH3) about Akeem Spence. Granted, Spence has been injured a good bit of his pro career but the long and the short of it is that he will wear the “bust” tag if he doesn’t produce this year.

On the flip side, what a shot it would be for this D if VH3 hits the level talked of above and Spence stays healthy and becomes a force on the edge. With the off season acquisitions and the rooks this D could take a major step.

But I’m not gonna start counting chickens any time soon.


What discussion was that exactly? Akeem Spence Is and always will be a marginal player at best. He’s not a bust because to be a bust would imply expectations were high for him. I don’t think anyone had the same expectations for Spence, the 100th player taken in the draft, that they do for VH3, the 11th overall pick.



Edit: Thanks Teitan. I was gonna say who the hell labeled Akeem Spence a bust????
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby terrytate » Sun May 06, 2018 8:16 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
doooshnzl wrote:IMHO, we could have the same discussion (VH3) about Akeem Spence. Granted, Spence has been injured a good bit of his pro career but the long and the short of it is that he will wear the “bust” tag if he doesn’t produce this year.

On the flip side, what a shot it would be for this D if VH3 hits the level talked of above and Spence stays healthy and becomes a force on the edge. With the off season acquisitions and the rooks this D could take a major step.

But I’m not gonna start counting chickens any time soon.


What discussion was that exactly? Akeem Spence Is and always will be a marginal player at best. He’s not a bust because to be a bust would imply expectations were high for him. I don’t think anyone had the same expectations for Spence, the 100th player taken in the draft, that they do for VH3, the 11th overall pick.



Edit: Thanks Teitan. I was gonna say who the hell labeled Akeem Spence a bust????


Aside from naming the wrong Spence, he isn't wrong. Spence's injuries worry me because it's been the same exact thing. McCoy was in this situation but both biceps tears were on different arms and rarely remain an issue, not so much with Spence and his repeat shoulder dislocations.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby doooshnzl » Sun May 06, 2018 8:27 pm

Teitan wrote:
doooshnzl wrote:IMHO, we could have the same discussion (VH3) about Akeem Spence. Granted, Spence has been injured a good bit of his pro career but the long and the short of it is that he will wear the “bust” tag if he doesn’t produce this year.

On the flip side, what a shot it would be for this D if VH3 hits the level talked of above and Spence stays healthy and becomes a force on the edge. With the off season acquisitions and the rooks this D could take a major step.

But I’m not gonna start counting chickens any time soon.


I was confused until i realized you were talking about Noah Spence.


Thanks for the correction. Still a bit buzzed from the Lighting game. I will make that correction.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby Eastwood » Sun May 06, 2018 10:09 pm

terrytate wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
What discussion was that exactly? Akeem Spence Is and always will be a marginal player at best. He’s not a bust because to be a bust would imply expectations were high for him. I don’t think anyone had the same expectations for Spence, the 100th player taken in the draft, that they do for VH3, the 11th overall pick.



Edit: Thanks Teitan. I was gonna say who the hell labeled Akeem Spence a bust????


Aside from naming the wrong Spence, he isn't wrong. Spence's injuries worry me because it's been the same exact thing. McCoy was in this situation but both biceps tears were on different arms and rarely remain an issue, not so much with Spence and his repeat shoulder dislocations.



I could be wrong, but Spence played through it his rookie year, then opted not to have surgery in that off season. Hurt it again last season and then actually had it repaired. Hopefully (if that’s what happened) that will be the end of the shoulder problem.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby Doctor » Sun May 06, 2018 10:35 pm

Hatter wrote:
VauntedTampa2 wrote:I would like to read that, mad-hatter.


Can't find the article but this grade write up on Bleacher Report was quoted in it.

75. Ryan Smith, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Coverage: 12/25
Reaction: 11/25
Recovery: 12/25
Tackling: 7/15
Position Value: 10/10
Overall Grade: 52/100
There may not have been a more overwhelmed corner to earn more than 500 snaps than Smith. The 2016 fourth-round pick appeared to be guessing at routes with little consideration for how much help he had. His struggles with staying in position to challenge at the catch point were a major issue, and offenses routinely targeted his side of the field. He was unfit to be the third boundary corner in 2017.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2754 ... son#slide2

If even the walk on undrafteds show more aptitude, he's gone IMO.


I wonder how much of this is just Julio Jones who owned Smith.

I have no problem with an open competition at camp, it's healthy. Even then we'll have great depth at the position for the first time in a long time. And CB is a tough position to for into, remember Barber was a disappointment at first too.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby mdb1958 » Mon May 07, 2018 3:25 am

Eastwood wrote:
terrytate wrote:
Aside from naming the wrong Spence, he isn't wrong. Spence's injuries worry me because it's been the same exact thing. McCoy was in this situation but both biceps tears were on different arms and rarely remain an issue, not so much with Spence and his repeat shoulder dislocations.





I could be wrong, but Spence played through it his rookie year, then opted not to have surgery in that off season. Hurt it again last season and then actually had it repaired. Hopefully (if that’s what happened) that will be the end of the shoulder problem.



DE and shoulder or even football and shoulder (equals) not a good sign. Even if they get it to stay in the socket you will be dealing with range of motion issues. Bum shoulder is a well thought out description. Chest popping guys 50 to 80 lbs heavier than you wont be easy on that shoulder.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby terrytate » Mon May 07, 2018 3:37 am

Eastwood wrote:
terrytate wrote:
Aside from naming the wrong Spence, he isn't wrong. Spence's injuries worry me because it's been the same exact thing. McCoy was in this situation but both biceps tears were on different arms and rarely remain an issue, not so much with Spence and his repeat shoulder dislocations.



I could be wrong, but Spence played through it his rookie year, then opted not to have surgery in that off season. Hurt it again last season and then actually had it repaired. Hopefully (if that’s what happened) that will be the end of the shoulder problem.



He had surgery after his rookie year too, then reinjured it. Apparently it is the fourth time he has dislocated that shoulder since being drafted.

https://bucswire.usatoday.com/2017/12/07/tampa-bay-buccaneers-bucs-noah-spence-tampa-bay/
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 NFL Draft Thread!****

Postby real bucs fan » Mon May 07, 2018 10:08 am

It would be massively disappointing if Spence is never able to show his stuff at the NFL due to this being a chronic thing. If you recall, we let this guy play through the injury the first time he injured it. I think that is proving to be a mistake.
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