Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

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Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby Agent Orange » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:24 pm

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... an-jackson

Did we not just go through this last year with Winston forcing the ball to Jackson? We saw how well that worked out...

Jameis Winston vows to show value of DeSean Jackson
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By Nick Shook
Around The NFL Writer
Published: April 7, 2018 at 12:14 p.m. Updated: April 7, 2018 at 04:46 p.m.

DeSean Jackson has weighed in on what his quarterback needs to do for their Tampa Bay Buccaneers to be better in 2018.

Jameis Winston is aiming to be himself, but an improved version -- and to prove Jackson's true value in the process.

Winston took to Twitter to respond to a Tampa Bay Times story questioning what the team will do with Jackson.


Jameis Winston

@Jaboowins
We got this! I personally will make sure we show how valuable @DeSeanJackson11 is to our team and @NFL https://twitter.com/tb_times/status/982247482997420038

12:18 PM - Apr 6, 2018
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On the surface, the Jackson conundrum -- $12.5 million for 50 catches, 668 yards and three touchdowns in 14 games in 2017 -- seems to have only one logical solution: Trade the 31-year-old receiver. The blame wasn't solely on Jackson, though, which Winston seems to acknowledge with his tweet.

As a whole, Tampa Bay underachieved on both sides of the ball. Jackson didn't experience the big-play success envisioned when he signed with the Bucs. He probably didn't anticipate spending a fourth of his season running routes for Ryan Fitzpatrick, either.

Year Two of the marriage could be the last. Tampa Bay is on the hook for a cap hit of $11 million, with $7.5 million guaranteed to Jackson in 2018, per Over The Cap. After that, they can part ways without a cap hit. Should they do it prior, they'll face a $7.5 million hit for a player who still offers value to an offense that could use a deep threat opposite Mike Evans.

That same offense could use a version of Winston that makes fewer reckless decisions. The quarterback turned the ball over 18 times (11 interceptions, seven fumbles lost) in 13 games last season, which surprisingly was only his second-highest total in that category. He posted 24 turnovers in 2016.

Having said all of this, if Winston makes good on his word and reveals Jackson's true value, Tampa Bay could be nearing a significant improvement. With Evans, Jackson, O.J. Howard, Cameron Brate and up-and-comer Chris Godwin, the Buccaneers are set up in terms of pass-catchers for Winston to thrive; it's just a matter of putting it all together.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:27 pm

Why exactly is this a bad thing? Are you saying he shouldn't try to get Jackson involved?
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby uscbucsfan » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:30 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Why exactly is this a bad thing? Are you saying he shouldn't try to get Jackson involved?

Jameis tends to force things when he has an agenda like this. It results in incompletions and interceptions. He's much better wheb he's not trying "to get a player involved" whethwr that is Evans or Jackson.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby LynchysKiss » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:30 pm

Why didn’t he just say “I’m finally gonna hit a go route”
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:31 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Why exactly is this a bad thing? Are you saying he shouldn't try to get Jackson involved?

Jameis tends to force things when he has an agenda like this. It results in incompletions and interceptions. He's much better wheb he's not trying "to get a player involved" whethwr that is Evans or Jackson.


How so? Who exactly is he throwing to then if he's not trying to get certain players involved? This premise makes zero sense.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby uscbucsfan » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:34 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Jameis tends to force things when he has an agenda like this. It results in incompletions and interceptions. He's much better wheb he's not trying "to get a player involved" whethwr that is Evans or Jackson.


How so? Who exactly is he throwing to then if he's not trying to get certain players involved? This premise makes zero sense.

To anyone that is open or the other 3-5 pass catchers on the field. You know better than this.

Every time in the past he's said this we get a few weeks of Jameis throwing into double or triple coverage, ignoring open receivers trying to get Evans or Jackson the ball. It turns him into an exponentially worse QB.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby Noles1724 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:35 pm

The spin and defensive angle already being drawn..3rd post in?

Anyways, if nothing more to take from this article, I love JW going to bat for DJ.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby Selmon Rules » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:38 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:Jameis tends to force things when he has an agenda like this. It results in incompletions and interceptions. He's much better wheb he's not trying "to get a player involved" whethwr that is Evans or Jackson.


How so? Who exactly is he throwing to then if he's not trying to get certain players involved? This premise makes zero sense.

Meaning he should be trying to get the open rec involved instead of trying to force the ball into places it doesn't need to go resulting in interceptions and incompletions. When a QB decides to get a player involved, it doesn't necessarily end well. When an offensive coordinator does it, there are usually better results.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby Super K » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:38 pm

Noles1724 wrote:...if nothing more to take from this article, I love JW going to bat for DJ.


Yep, definitely...
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:39 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
How so? Who exactly is he throwing to then if he's not trying to get certain players involved? This premise makes zero sense.

To anyone that is open or the other 3-5 pass catchers on the field. You know better than this.

Every time in the past he's said this we get a few weeks of Jameis throwing into double or triple coverage, ignoring open receivers trying to get Evans or Jackson the ball. It turns him into an exponentially worse QB.


It seems as if when Jameis throws to Evans or Jackson, fans say he's forcing it to them. What about the incomplete passes to everyone else? And it's not just double/triple coverage. It's every pass. Fans think they know when he's forcing it and it's only to those 2.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:40 pm

Selmon Rules wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
How so? Who exactly is he throwing to then if he's not trying to get certain players involved? This premise makes zero sense.

Meaning he should be trying to get the open rec involved instead of trying to force the ball into places it doesn't need to go resulting in interceptions and incompletions. When a QB decides to get a player involved, it doesn't necessarily end well. When an offensive coordinator does it, there are usually better results.


More often than not those open receivers were Evans or Jackson yet regardless of the result or if it was single, double, or no coverage fans said he was forcing it to them.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby uscbucsfan » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:41 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:To anyone that is open or the other 3-5 pass catchers on the field. You know better than this.

Every time in the past he's said this we get a few weeks of Jameis throwing into double or triple coverage, ignoring open receivers trying to get Evans or Jackson the ball. It turns him into an exponentially worse QB.


It seems as if when Jameis throws to Evans or Jackson, fans say he's forcing it to them. What about the incomplete passes to everyone else? And it's not just double/triple coverage. It's every pass. Fans think they know when he's forcing it and it's only to those 2.

That's not what I'm referring to here. If you don't believe there are times when Jameis forces to a player, go back and re-watch games. He does it and has admitted to it in the past. The results are usually bad.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:45 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
It seems as if when Jameis throws to Evans or Jackson, fans say he's forcing it to them. What about the incomplete passes to everyone else? And it's not just double/triple coverage. It's every pass. Fans think they know when he's forcing it and it's only to those 2.

That's not what I'm referring to here. If you don't believe there are times when Jameis forces to a player, go back and re-watch games. He does it and has admitted to it in the past. The results are usually bad.


That isn't what you said. You said he shouldn't try to specific players involved, he should throw to the open guy. And more often than not they are the open guys. Should he look another way just because or should he take it upon himself to do a better job? He would say the latter.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby Agent Orange » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:47 pm

Already some spot on reasons why this is a bad thing. He needs to make his reads and throw to the open man. What he does not need to do is try and force the ball to anyone to show their "value". This is a big reason I am no longer on board with keeping Jameis. He needs to stop trying to keep everyone happy and win some games by doing his job.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby Deja Entendu » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:12 pm

This doesn't necessarily equate to him force feeding Jackson the ball.

There's also the possibility that he's realized through watching film that there were many times Jackson was open (besides in failed go routes), that he failed to see it.

By working on doing a better job going through his progressions and recognizing when Jackson is open, he will still be personally making sure he's showing how valuable Jackson is.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby Caradoc » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:52 am

Damn you know the offseason is getting to people when you read ish like this.

Nothing to see here he's just standing up for DJax's value and implicitly owning that he screwed the pooch there. People are reading waaaayyy too much into a simple statement.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby Heisenberg » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:22 pm

A lot of it lies on dirk getting him involved besides go routes and one slant every 3 games
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby PrimeMinister » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:29 pm

Caradoc wrote:Damn you know the offseason is getting to people when you read ish like this.

Nothing to see here he's just standing up for DJax's value and implicitly owning that he screwed the pooch there. People are reading waaaayyy too much into a simple statement.


This.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby Naismith » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:30 pm

I love Jameis and wasn't a big fan of signing DJax, but literally the only thing that needs to change from last year to this year is Jameis hitting him when he's open. If he hit him every time Desean had a step on someone last year, it would have been a big year.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby sanka » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:51 am

Not shocked...he said the same about Evans after a bad rookie season with Evans.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby Buccs99 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:52 am

prove it. only thing i really have to say to this. to me, it's just answering what the media throws at him. it means nothing. we know that. at this point, prove it.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:52 am

It takes Winston 1 year to develop chemistry with any receiver. it's just how he is. now that the year has past, I'm not worried about it.

Humpries' first year with Winston: 260 yds, 1 TD
Humpries' second year with Winston: 622 yds, 2 TD

Brate's first year with Winston: 288 yds, 3 TD
Brate's second year with Winston: 660 Tds, 8 TD

Evans' first year with Winston: 74 rec, 1206 yds, 3 TD
Evans' second year with Winston: 96 rec, 1321 yds, 12 TD

Jackson's first year with Winston: 50 rec, 668 yds, 3 TD
Jackson's second year with Winston: ????

My guess is Jackson catches 65 for 950, 5 TDs this year
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby Buc2 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:22 am

beardmcdoug wrote:It takes Winston 1 year to develop chemistry with any receiver. it's just how he is. now that the year has past, I'm not worried about it.

Humpries' first year with Winston: 260 yds, 1 TD
Humpries' second year with Winston: 622 yds, 2 TD

Brate's first year with Winston: 288 yds, 3 TD
Brate's second year with Winston: 660 Tds, 8 TD

Evans' first year with Winston: 74 rec, 1206 yds, 3 TD
Evans' second year with Winston: 96 rec, 1321 yds, 12 TD

Jackson's first year with Winston: 50 rec, 668 yds, 3 TD
Jackson's second year with Winston: ????

My guess is Jackson catches 65 for 950, 5 TDs this year

Interesting find. I hope that translation holds true with DJax this year.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby Doctor » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:38 am

beardmcdoug wrote:It takes Winston 1 year to develop chemistry with any receiver. it's just how he is. now that the year has past, I'm not worried about it.

Humpries' first year with Winston: 260 yds, 1 TD
Humpries' second year with Winston: 622 yds, 2 TD

Brate's first year with Winston: 288 yds, 3 TD
Brate's second year with Winston: 660 Tds, 8 TD

Evans' first year with Winston: 74 rec, 1206 yds, 3 TD
Evans' second year with Winston: 96 rec, 1321 yds, 12 TD

Jackson's first year with Winston: 50 rec, 668 yds, 3 TD
Jackson's second year with Winston: ????

My guess is Jackson catches 65 for 950, 5 TDs this year

I can't help but to think that stat is a little cherry picked. Pretty much, his rookie year vs now. There are so many variables that come into play here. For this particular chemistry, it's deep ball accuracy which Winston lacks. I mean it's workable if you are climbing the ladder 40 yards downfield, which is why I would have taken Allen Robinson way over DJax, but if you have to drop it in the bread basket in stride? Eh...

Djax is probably the best WR in the league tracking the deep ball in the air and even he can't get under Winston's passes. That's very concerning.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:38 am

Buc2 wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:It takes Winston 1 year to develop chemistry with any receiver. it's just how he is. now that the year has past, I'm not worried about it.

Humpries' first year with Winston: 260 yds, 1 TD
Humpries' second year with Winston: 622 yds, 2 TD

Brate's first year with Winston: 288 yds, 3 TD
Brate's second year with Winston: 660 Tds, 8 TD

Evans' first year with Winston: 74 rec, 1206 yds, 3 TD
Evans' second year with Winston: 96 rec, 1321 yds, 12 TD

Jackson's first year with Winston: 50 rec, 668 yds, 3 TD
Jackson's second year with Winston: ????

My guess is Jackson catches 65 for 950, 5 TDs this year

Interesting find. I hope that translation holds true with DJax this year.


That is interesting and a pretty strong trend.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:56 am

Doctor wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:It takes Winston 1 year to develop chemistry with any receiver. it's just how he is. now that the year has past, I'm not worried about it.

Humpries' first year with Winston: 260 yds, 1 TD
Humpries' second year with Winston: 622 yds, 2 TD

Brate's first year with Winston: 288 yds, 3 TD
Brate's second year with Winston: 660 Tds, 8 TD

Evans' first year with Winston: 74 rec, 1206 yds, 3 TD
Evans' second year with Winston: 96 rec, 1321 yds, 12 TD

Jackson's first year with Winston: 50 rec, 668 yds, 3 TD
Jackson's second year with Winston: ????

My guess is Jackson catches 65 for 950, 5 TDs this year

I can't help but to think that stat is a little cherry picked. Pretty much, his rookie year vs now. There are so many variables that come into play here. For this particular chemistry, it's deep ball accuracy which Winston lacks. I mean it's workable if you are climbing the ladder 40 yards downfield, which is why I would have taken Allen Robinson way over DJax, but if you have to drop it in the bread basket in stride? Eh...

Djax is probably the best WR in the league tracking the deep ball in the air and even he can't get under Winston's passes. That's very concerning.


Just FYI, I'm aware of the flaws in the data - but overall, its a football message board and they back up what I've watched; so all being said, I stand by them, the premise, and the post. We'll see what Winston does. I'm hopeful.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:05 am

Djax is plenty valuable to any offense with his ability to stretch a defense. His mere presence on the field makes offense easier as teams can play less zone and press man coverage that they might normally. I don't believe his lack of production in 2017 was due to anything he did wrong. Jameis just missed him too often early in the season, then Jameis gets hurt, then when Jameis gets it going late in the season DJax got a minor injury.

I would bet DJax has a pretty decent 2018 season and he gets back to making the explosive plays that he's made his entire career. Something like 50-60 catches for around 1000yds and 6-7 TDs.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby Doctor » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:11 am

I wonder if we're planning on getting the ball to DJax sooner instead of so much downfield? I mean at the end of the day, yes, DJax best trait is getting passed defenders and we'll still give him those shots, but I wonder if we try to get him some shorter passes in space. Perhaps try him out in the slot where he can excel and we put Godwin outside?
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:21 am

My very first thought was it would have been nice for it to be a surprise.
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Re: Jameis Winston Vows to Show Value of Desean Jackson

Postby Buc2 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:54 am

DreadNaught wrote:Djax is plenty valuable to any offense with his ability to stretch a defense. His mere presence on the field makes offense easier as teams can play less zone and press man coverage that they might normally. I don't believe his lack of production in 2017 was due to anything he did wrong. Jameis just missed him too often early in the season, then Jameis gets hurt, then when Jameis gets it going late in the season DJax got a minor injury.

I would bet DJax has a pretty decent 2018 season and he gets back to making the explosive plays that he's made his entire career. Something like 50-60 catches for around 1000yds and 6-7 TDs.

Beard wasn't saying it was Djax's fault. He was saying that Winston has shown a propensity to develop a better chemistry with his WR's after a year playing with them. If it is a trend that continues, Djax should have a pretty good year with Winston this season.
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