List your top 5 Positions of need in order

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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby Rocker » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:49 pm

Cheb wrote:
I don't disagree. With the exception of Sweezy, our starters on the offensive line are largely set. We're two deep up and down the defensive line, for once.

Not one of our running backs would start on another NFL team or debtably even hold a roster spot. To say that we have a safety of starting quality beyond Evans is generous. At corner Grimes is ancient by NFL standards and VH3 is a disappointment, while their backups Elliot and Smith would be in over their heads if forced to play significant snaps.

I'd put the top needs as running back, corner, and safety in whatever order makes you happy.


OL starters are, basically, set; hard to argue that - but to argue that we have depth in that unit is disingenuous at best. If either starting tackle were to miss significant playing time; it’s a wrap. That’s not even taking into consideration the need for a guard that can play above pick up community park level.
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby Caradoc » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:54 pm

Teitan wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:I wasn't listing them in order FYI... just stating those are the 3 biggest needs on the roster by far.


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Even I didn't read that much into his post.

Those are the biggest needs. Pretty obvious ones. That doesn't mean a particular need requires a first round pick, but they are some glaring holes.
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby theBKwhopper » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:56 pm

Teitan wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:I wasn't listing them in order FYI... just stating those are the 3 biggest needs on the roster by far.


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Ha!
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:18 pm

Rocker wrote:
Cheb wrote:
I don't disagree. With the exception of Sweezy, our starters on the offensive line are largely set. We're two deep up and down the defensive line, for once.

Not one of our running backs would start on another NFL team or debtably even hold a roster spot. To say that we have a safety of starting quality beyond Evans is generous. At corner Grimes is ancient by NFL standards and VH3 is a disappointment, while their backups Elliot and Smith would be in over their heads if forced to play significant snaps.

I'd put the top needs as running back, corner, and safety in whatever order makes you happy.


OL starters are, basically, set; hard to argue that - but to argue that we have depth in that unit is disingenuous at best. If either starting tackle were to miss significant playing time; it’s a wrap. That’s not even taking into consideration the need for a guard that can play above pick up community park level.

I agree we could use a 3rd OT to groom behind Dotson, though we will see where Benenoch ends up. I think he and Evan Smith are going to be the other OLs that dress on Sundays.

If Sweezy is the walking dead, then OG is up there too obviously.

But as Dread said, you can't just put OL and DL though lol
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby Doctor » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:47 pm

I don't get why this board has taken to laughing at RBF like he's Bootz. Sure, his obsession with Barkley has been a little comical, but no more than when any other member here has gotten a man crush.

In this instance, he's totally right. While one should always look to upgrade the trenches no matter what they have at the position, people calling it the biggest need right now is simply not true. Signing Jensen essentially gave us two starters. Even then, our BACK UPS last year played pretty well when half the OL went done, so the depth is there. While I'd draft Nelson to replace Sweezy in a heartbeat, it's hardly the biggest "need". On the DL we already addressed 3/4 of it with new starters. Again, while I'd love to add Chubbs to the rotation, it's hardly a need and we still have Spence.

The three biggest needs are RB, CB, and S- RBF is right. Now, while you could debate the order a little, those are the three.

CB depth isn't nearly as bad as people make it seem. It's actually a very high turnover position. Grimes still played at a high level last year and I think people are really really underestimating VH3 and Ryan Smith. I get those new rookies are always the shiny new hopes for teams, but these guys have just two years in the freaking league man. Way too soon to write them off. Both actually came a very long way as the season went on. And while getting a new name is always more fun than slowly developing a no name, the reality is that's how that happens. Good teams develop their players, they don't just go looking for new talent. VH3 and Ryan Smith are very talented and rangy corners, who, like the whole defense, should greatly benefit from the DL not giving a QB 36 seconds to throw. I'd love to get a new CB to develop alongside them because it's clear Grimes can't play forever, but do we *need* a new CB for this season? Not really, nor is there anyone out there that will really be the upgrade people imagine. Draft prospects are always seriously overvalued.

Meanwhile, we have nothing but JAGs are RB and Safety. These aren't talents that still need to be molded and coached, it's pretty much you get what you see. We essentially have blanks on those two spots in the depth chart. Don't get me wrong, I like Barber, I really praised his running style last season when he showed we CAN rush for positive yards behind this OL. But let's be honest, he'd be on 31 other teams roster bubbles. Literally, any rookie drafted in the first 4 rounds would likely beat him out before week 1. I don't care if you think you can "get a RB anywhere", point is we don't have one right now.
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby Teitan » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:12 am

Caradoc wrote:
Teitan wrote:
Image



Even I didn't read that much into his post.

Those are the biggest needs. Pretty obvious ones. That doesn't mean a particular need requires a first round pick, but they are some glaring holes.


It’s not really reading into it. The thread title says list positions of need in order.

RB is a need. But I’d say keeping our QB upright is a bigger need. Want the run game to get going? Need guys that can block. Sweezy isn’t the answer. Dotson is getting up there. We’re a Jensen injury away from being the same line we were last season.

We made some solid additions to the DL and I’m hoping they overachieve. Run stopping should be improved. Pass rush hopefully improves. JPP is a nice addition and gives us the best pass rusher we’ve had in years. Despite the additions, you can never have enough good pass rushers, you should always look to upgrade there


Outside of that “trenches are the most important” philosophy, CB is probably our biggest need. We have a 35 year old #1. While he’s played well for us, you can’t bank on that lasting forever. He gets injured you’re looking at VH3 being our #1. A guy the head coach has already tagged as “probably a slot guy”. Ryan Smith is a fun project and could be decent depth, but he’s not striking fear into the hearts of Julio Jones and Michael Thomas. The shelf is bare at CB.


Safety? Chris Conte is a starter.

As I said, RB is a need. I find it silly to list it as our biggest need. I agree it’s in our top 5 (or 3 if you don’t think upgrading the lines are a priority) Anyway, wasn’t trying to make this a RBF thing. Just find his RB crusade comical at times.
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:22 am

Hey Doc, I've never played Madden (not even watched it get played). Do the teams go into the season with needs?
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby MJW » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:29 am

1) Cornerback. The additions of Jensen on the OL, and Allen/JPP/Curry on the DL line, mean these units will at least be serviceable. Cornerback? We could have the league's oldest starting corner when everything shakes out. We have a former 1st round pick who wouldn't be getting a 5th year extension if we had to decide right now. And then what? A small school project who can't stick at a position. A special teamer. A handful of bottom of the roster types. This situation is grim.

2) Right Guard. Moving Marpet over to left guard helps us a ton there. But on the right side, we're looking at either JR Sweezy, Caleb Benenoch, or worse, a rotation of them like we had at left guard last year. And there's no real depth.

3) Defensive Tackle. We have McCoy, obviously. It would be impossible for Allen to bust as bad as Baker did. Behind them, though? Mitch Unrein is a journeyman. There are some kids you wouldn't want playing major snaps. Basically, if Gerald McCoy gets hurt or starts to show his age, we're in deep doo doo right now at one of the most important positions.

4) Running Back. I think we're peachy keen with Barber as the 15 carry guy. When he got blocking, he was a productive, hard running downhill back. But there's no "juice" at the position, no clear 3rd down option, and we'd be in trouble if Barber went down and we had to rely on Quizz. It seems inevitable that we add a back in the first four rounds of the draft, and possibly a veteran cut at some point as well.

5) Safety. I almost went with defensive end, but we have four guys who can play some now. No, it's safety. I have dangerously high hopes for Evans, but Conte makes too many mental errors and at 30, probably isn't getting more athletic than he is right now. Tandy is a nice depth guy at both spots, but that's all he is. Nobody can argue a long-term option isn't needed in the near future.
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:00 am

I agree MJW and had the same positions in a slightly different order, but I don't object to your reasoning.

When I think of "need" I take it as what specific positions are more desperate for talent upgrade for 2018 and beyond.

CB tops the list for me. Grimes is old, VH3 is a question, everyone else is meh. The Bucs are in desperation for some talented youth at the CB position and why I think Denzel Ward is a likely target for us at 7 imo.

RB is next b/c both our starter and depth is probably the worst in the NFL right now. People can make the devalued argument for the RB position all they want but the fact is that the RB position gets the ball on close to half the offensive plays between rushes and receptions and the Bucs are weak as **** at RB w/ Barber and Quizz as the current 1-2.

Safety, DT, and Guard are all about the same to me. At DT I feel good about the guys we got (McCoy, Allen, Unrein) but I'd really like a young and talented 3-tech type DT to groom behind McCoy these next couple years.

Safety has Conte/Tandy still so I won't delve into any deeper analysis. I'm fine with them as back-ups, but despise the idea of them starting without some competition with a more talented option.

Guard is totally dependent on Sweezy's health. I'm on record as not being a believer that Sweezy will never return to his Seahawk form and what we saw last year was the best version of this post-injury Sweezy. I honestly think that as soon as he's cleared medically that he'll be a cap casualty or else we'll reach an injury settlement. I'm higher on Benenoch than most here. He's going into year 3 and if we keep him at one spot on the Oline (RG?) I think he'll be atleast what Sweezy was last season if not better, while costing the team under $1m/yr.

DreadNaught wrote:CB
RB
Safety
DT
Guard

PS - You guys are cheating using OL and/or DL.
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby Buc2 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:07 am

What? Nobody has said TE?










































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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:13 am

Dread if you think our RB position is the worst in the league, can you name me the RBs for the New York Giants or Seattle Seahawks without looking it up?
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:29 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Dread if you think our RB position is the worst in the league, can you name me the RBs for the New York Giants or Seattle Seahawks without looking it up?


I know Gettleman signed Jonathan Stewart from the Panthers and they still have Gallman who looked decent as a rookie change of pace back.

Not sure about the Seahawks. They're RB depth was **** last year and I don't recall who they've signed. They still got that Carson kid (#32) and I know they let Rawls leave in FA. I'd have to look up who else they have at RB but would imagine it's not anyone worth mentioning.

Both teams will certainly be in the RB market this draft (like the Bucs) I'd imagine. But you may be right on the Seahawks being in a worse situation than the Bucs. I'm sure they're fans looks at Carson just like some of ours look at Barber though.
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby Nano » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:32 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Dread if you think our RB position is the worst in the league, can you name me the RBs for the New York Giants or Seattle Seahawks without looking it up?

Chris Carson and J.Stew
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby Ghostrap » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:18 am

Eastwood wrote:
Ghostrap wrote:Rb * very important right now
Ss * very important right now
Cb - 3rd round pick would be a safe value to place on a future #2 CB.
MLB - backup/startable insurance



We don’t have a 3rd round pick.


I would much prefer drafting a CB with a 1st rounder after VHIII's 4th year, if necessary.

VHIII is a question mark. But it would be wise to keep evaluating him before skipping out on drafting a RB and SS. Many wanted to replace him after only his rookie year. He was injured again his sophmore year. These injuries are possibly from his inexperience at the pro level. It appeared to me that VHIII was putting unnecessary pressure on his body, trying to do too much. He is only a kid.

We are just now only entering his 3rd year. And then he has one more year remaining. After that, he has the 5th year option.
Last edited by Ghostrap on Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:56 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:43 am

Bootz2004 wrote:Dread if you think our RB position is the worst in the league, can you name me the RBs for the New York Giants or Seattle Seahawks without looking it up?

Whether it ranks 30th or 32nd as a position group across the league, the point is still that it is by far the weakest position group on the roster.
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby Truck-a-Saurus » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:03 pm

RB - we literally do not have anyone who would project as a clear cut starter for any other team. Call Barber what he is: an undrafted player who showed enough flashes to earn a shot at starting - and will probably take a back seat to anyone drafted in the first four rounds. And we have him and the ghost of Jaquizz Rodgers.

CB - this is only better by virtue of having ONE player in Grimes who would be a starter on most teams, though whether that will hold true all year or not remains to be seen. Guy has to show his age eventually. After him we have a disappointment in VH3, a somewhat promising project who got badly abused at times last year in Smith... and some ST/PS level guys.

OG/S tie - one safety and one guard spot are locked down, but the other starter's spots are being manned by subpar players. Depth isn't terrible, but there's no one that we'd want starting a significant part of the year there, either.

K - Pat Murray was good when compared with Aguayo and Folk in that we could actually be confident in a 35 yarder, but his long kicks were not reliable, and his kickoffs likely cost the team points. I don't think the team is done looking for a long term answer here.



Is that the order I'd draft them in? Not necessarily. But it's hard to argue with RB and CB being the most deficient areas of the team at the moment, and therefore being the biggest needs.
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby theBKwhopper » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:14 pm

We signed a kicker, dude. Chandler Cantavzhshajs or somethin
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby Caradoc » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:48 pm

His name is George Costanza, and he won a contest.
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby theBKwhopper » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:08 pm

Caradoc wrote:His name is George Costanza, and he won a contest.

Ha!
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby Heidguy » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:13 pm

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Our kicker is the guy with the glasses, in case you didn't know.
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:33 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Dread if you think our RB position is the worst in the league, can you name me the RBs for the New York Giants or Seattle Seahawks without looking it up?


I know Gettleman signed Jonathan Stewart from the Panthers and they still have Gallman who looked decent as a rookie change of pace back.

Not sure about the Seahawks. They're RB depth was **** last year and I don't recall who they've signed. They still got that Carson kid (#32) and I know they let Rawls leave in FA. I'd have to look up who else they have at RB but would imagine it's not anyone worth mentioning.

Both teams will certainly be in the RB market this draft (like the Bucs) I'd imagine. But you may be right on the Seahawks being in a worse situation than the Bucs. I'm sure they're fans looks at Carson just like some of ours look at Barber though.


I don't know if I could pick between Stewart and Barber TBH. Stewart was bad behind a better O-line and has been lackluster for a while, but he could have some sort of resurgence. Barber was solid at times behind struggling blocking

I'd say the Bucs are up there with the Giants, Seahawks, Lions, Colts, and maybe the Raiders as worst talent at RB.
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby Truck-a-Saurus » Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:53 pm

theBKwhopper wrote:We signed a kicker, dude. Chandler Cantavzhshajs or somethin


I uh... I knew that. I didn't remember it, but I knew it.

So 5 can just be DT like everyone else, I guess. :oops:
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby Doctor » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:13 pm

I think you guys don't know what the word need means. If you haven't had a drink in two days then you *need* water. If you just had a drink you don't *need* water, but you will need water in the future. Some of you are commenting on guys who are long in the tooth, but they are still here, and they are still going to play next season.

If you could choose to fill one position, right now, for just this season, with a B grade player, which positions would it be? Those are needs. The rest are just upgrades.
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby theBKwhopper » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:20 pm

Doctor wrote:I think you guys don't know what the word need means. If you haven't had a drink in two days then you *need* water. If you just had a drink you don't *need* water, but you will need water in the future. Some of you are commenting on guys who are long in the tooth, but they are still here, and they are still going to play next season.

If you could choose to fill one position, right now, for just this season, with a B grade player, which positions would it be? Those are needs. The rest are just upgrades.

CB.
Pass rusher
OG
RB
SS
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:25 pm

Doctor wrote:I think you guys don't know what the word need means. If you haven't had a drink in two days then you *need* water. If you just had a drink you don't *need* water, but you will need water in the future. Some of you are commenting on guys who are long in the tooth, but they are still here, and they are still going to play next season.

If you could choose to fill one position, right now, for just this season, with a B grade player, which positions would it be? Those are needs. The rest are just upgrades.


I think you are trying to enforce your definition on everyone else. When talking about the draft the word need is interchanged with covet or want. We don't "need" any position. We have able bodied individuals who can play at every position...so what the hell fun is that? . Our talent is weakest at the positions people are stating in their opinion. Everyone knows what "need" is in this reference. You may not agree with them.

While Conte may suck, SS is not as important as a position as DE, DT, OG, therefore it may not be as big of a need to some than it is to others. They may think we could upgrade the overall talent of the team with a position like OG than upgrading Conte (who does really suck).

I think you could easily make an argument that we have the worst player at either RB, SS, or CB and maybe not everyone would agree, but logical points can be made...and depending on Sweezy's health OG could be at the top of the list, too.
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby Doctor » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:33 pm

But see that's just silly and a completely different conversation. If you told me which position you would like an A+ starter in I'd say QB, DE, LT, CB... and if that's the case, those are the needs, always.

But sure, if you'd like so you can keep your own definition of "need" that's near and dear to you, I pose that question again as a separate stand-alone question.

If you could pick one position where the current slotted starter would be cut and replaced with a generic B level player for just the 2018 season, what position would it be? You can list multiple if you want.
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby Doctor » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:35 pm

Doctor wrote:But see that's just silly and a completely different conversation. If you told me which position you would like an A+ starter in I'd say QB, DE, LT, CB... and if that's the case, those are the needs, always.

But sure, if you'd like so you can keep your own definition of "need" that's near and dear to you, I pose that question again as a separate stand-alone question.

If you could pick one position where the current slotted starter would be cut and replaced with a generic B level player for just the 2018 season, what position would it be? You can list multiple if you want.


RB and SS are easily at the top.
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:37 pm

I think you’ll get the same answers from people. Some think Smith is the worst player on the team.

Plus that’s not the original question. It was list your top 5 positions of need. If someone feels like we need another DE more than anything else and can make an argument, they answered the question correctly. You just don’t like their answers. If you want to change the thread, make your own.
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby Doctor » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:40 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:I think you’ll get the same answers from people. Some think Smith is the worst player on the team.

Plus that’s not the original question. It was list your top 5 positions of need. If someone feels like we need another DE more than anything else and can make an argument, they answered the question correctly. You just don’t like their answers. If you want to change the thread, make your own.

Because we can't talk two things in one thread... okay.
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Re: List your top 5 Positions of need in order

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:42 pm

Doctor wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:I think you’ll get the same answers from people. Some think Smith is the worst player on the team.

Plus that’s not the original question. It was list your top 5 positions of need. If someone feels like we need another DE more than anything else and can make an argument, they answered the question correctly. You just don’t like their answers. If you want to change the thread, make your own.

Because we can't talk two things in one thread... okay.

You seem to be the one frustrated by the answers and then posed a new question to change the direction. To your question I’d say RB,CB, SS in that order.
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