Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:09 am

MJW is making alot of stuff up here.

NFL drug testing procedures have already been covered in this thread. This video doesn't change when VH3 will be tested. Goodell isn't moving him up on any list either. That's not how it works.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby MJW » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:15 am

DreadNaught wrote:MJW is making alot of stuff up here.

NFL drug testing procedures have already been covered in this thread. This video doesn't change when VH3 will be tested. Goodell isn't moving him up on any list either. That's not how it works.


I envy you your naivety. You actually think the NFL's self-governing rules are REAL rules that they follow, even when it's not in their best interests. How do you think they feel about players smoking up on camera? And you think they're not itching to remind everyone they're tough on drugs? And you think these "rules" will prevent them from acting.

Let me ask you, did a kid recently trade you a moped for your shaggy dog van on your drive to return Mary Swanson's suitcase?
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:24 am

The issue with your stance is the NFL is not hard against drugs. You have nothing to back this up. History shows nothing will happen. Don't you think it would have been reported that OBJ was randomly tested? We hear about almost every random PED test during the season, but they would cover that up? You aren't being logical here. If you have any source or precedence, please enlighten us. Right now it just sounds like you think they should be hard on these players for videos which don't conclusively show they are doing drugs.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby deltbucs » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:04 am

Rocker wrote:Random thought just popped into my head. Does anyone else find it amusing that Bootz is brushing off this incident; when he has such a well established line that anyone that’s done drugs is a junkie, worthless human being, second class citizen, beyond redemption, etc?

Meh....Not really amusing. Same type if **** he does all the time. Say whatever he needs to try to start an argument with someone.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby Caradoc » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:35 am

Yeah, Bootsie will call MJW an "attention seeking whore", but we all know who the real attention whore is.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:43 am

Caradoc wrote:Yeah, Bootsie will call MJW an "attention seeking whore", but we all know who the real attention whore is.

Now you've done it.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby Buc2 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:55 am

Not saying anything will come of that video, but the NFL does have a Personal Conduct Policy that this incident could conceivably fall under if the league were to decide to pursue it to, say, make an example for the rest of the players and league personnel to see.

A few pertinent lines from the policy...
It is not enough simply to avoid being found guilty of a crime. We are all held to a higher standard
and must conduct ourselves in a way that is responsible, promotes the values of the NFL, and is lawful.

Conduct that undermines or puts at risk the integrity of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL personnel.

Discipline – A player violates this policy when he has a disposition of a criminal proceeding (as
defined), or if the league’s investigation demonstrates that he engaged in conduct prohibited by the
Personal Conduct Policy. In cases where a player is not charged with a crime, or is charged but not
convicted, he may still be found to have violated the Policy if the credible evidence establishes that he
engaged in conduct prohibited by this Personal Conduct Policy.

The policy is just vague enough for this incident to fall under its purview should the league so desire it to. Just the appearance that VHIII was smoking weed could possibly be construed as detrimental conduct under this policy. As a player, I certainly wouldn't have tested it in such a fashion.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:10 am

Right. I don't think they will find credible evidence of either player from the video or picture shown. Did Johnny Manziel get suspended for doing coke in a Vegas bathroom? No...but he did get a 4 game suspension for failing a drug test in April of 2016.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:12 am

Buc2 wrote:Not saying anything will come of that video, but the NFL does have a Personal Conduct Policy that this incident could conceivably fall under if the league were to decide to pursue it to, say, make an example for the rest of the players and league personnel to see.

A few pertinent lines from the policy...
It is not enough simply to avoid being found guilty of a crime. We are all held to a higher standard
and must conduct ourselves in a way that is responsible, promotes the values of the NFL, and is lawful.

Conduct that undermines or puts at risk the integrity of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL personnel.

Discipline – A player violates this policy when he has a disposition of a criminal proceeding (as
defined), or if the league’s investigation demonstrates that he engaged in conduct prohibited by the
Personal Conduct Policy. In cases where a player is not charged with a crime, or is charged but not
convicted, he may still be found to have violated the Policy if the credible evidence establishes that he
engaged in conduct prohibited by this Personal Conduct Policy.

The policy is just vague enough for this incident to fall under its purview should the league so desire it to. Just the appearance that VHIII was smoking weed could possibly be construed as detrimental conduct under this policy. As a player, I certainly wouldn't have tested it in such a fashion.


This point is valid and something to consider. That said though NFLPA would still have leverage as the league would need to prove that he was smoking an illegal substance. If he passes a drug test he's basically in the clear but at the least your point is backed with facts. Not speculation that the league will bend their rules to move up his drug test date. Well that was MJWs point until she questioned if the league's self governing rules were even real rules that they follow.

At the end of the day I think most of us who follow the league know how they operate and realize many players have gotten off with worse. Suspension is a bit premature to talk on at this point.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby uscbucsfan » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:15 am

To echo Bootz, no one is saying OBJ or VHIII won't see a drug suspension, but it's extremely unlikely to come from the pictures and even if it did, it wouldn't hold up. There is precedence for that. The fact that both of them are stupid enough to allow themselves to be filmed/documented ala Manziel, means they may end up failing a drug test in the future.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby Naismith » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:17 am

Man, this video is two years too late.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:30 am

MJW wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:MJW is making alot of stuff up here.

NFL drug testing procedures have already been covered in this thread. This video doesn't change when VH3 will be tested. Goodell isn't moving him up on any list either. That's not how it works.


I envy you your naivety. You actually think the NFL's self-governing rules are REAL rules that they follow, even when it's not in their best interests. How do you think they feel about players smoking up on camera? And you think they're not itching to remind everyone they're tough on drugs? And you think these "rules" will prevent them from acting.

Let me ask you, did a kid recently trade you a moped for your shaggy dog van on your drive to return Mary Swanson's suitcase?

uscbucsfan wrote:The issue with your stance is the NFL is not hard against drugs. You have nothing to back this up. History shows nothing will happen. Don't you think it would have been reported that OBJ was randomly tested? We hear about almost every random PED test during the season, but they would cover that up? You aren't being logical here. If you have any source or precedence, please enlighten us. Right now it just sounds like you think they should be hard on these players for videos which don't conclusively show they are doing drugs.


Facts over feelings.

It's ironic that the people who base their take on this subject around facts and precedence are called the "naive" ones while those that have speculative opinions based on feelings try to claim some type of intellectual high ground.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:40 am

DreadNaught wrote:
MJW wrote:
I envy you your naivety. You actually think the NFL's self-governing rules are REAL rules that they follow, even when it's not in their best interests. How do you think they feel about players smoking up on camera? And you think they're not itching to remind everyone they're tough on drugs? And you think these "rules" will prevent them from acting.

Let me ask you, did a kid recently trade you a moped for your shaggy dog van on your drive to return Mary Swanson's suitcase?

uscbucsfan wrote:The issue with your stance is the NFL is not hard against drugs. You have nothing to back this up. History shows nothing will happen. Don't you think it would have been reported that OBJ was randomly tested? We hear about almost every random PED test during the season, but they would cover that up? You aren't being logical here. If you have any source or precedence, please enlighten us. Right now it just sounds like you think they should be hard on these players for videos which don't conclusively show they are doing drugs.


Facts over feelings.

It's ironic that the people who base their take on this subject around facts and precedence are called the "naive" ones while those that have speculative opinions based on feelings try to claim some type of intellectual high ground.


Welcome to my world.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby acmillis » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:43 am

Naismith wrote:Man, this video is two years too late.

I was on his bandwagon on draft day but man is this post the truth at this point.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:47 am

uscbucsfan wrote:To echo Bootz, no one is saying OBJ or VHIII won't see a drug suspension, but it's extremely unlikely to come from the pictures and even if it did, it wouldn't hold up. There is precedence for that. The fact that both of them are stupid enough to allow themselves to be filmed/documented ala Manziel, means they may end up failing a drug test in the future.


To suspend a player for weed they'd need to fail a drug test (actually multiple tests to warrant suspension for marijuana) or else the NFLPA would **** all over the league office. The drug testing policy and drug related suspensions are governed by the CBA and the NFL can't arbitrarily change the policy just b/c they feel like it or b/c of some video where a player is smoking something people are alleging is weed.

The personal conduct policy is an interesting take, but as others have mentioned there is ZERO precedence that ALLEGED drug use would kick off any type of NFL investigation. Alleged recreational marijuana use is NOT why the PCP was created/introduced and has NEVER been applied for this type of instance despite this NOT being close to the first time an NFL player was on video for allegedly doing drugs.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby Buc2 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:01 am

DreadNaught wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:To echo Bootz, no one is saying OBJ or VHIII won't see a drug suspension, but it's extremely unlikely to come from the pictures and even if it did, it wouldn't hold up. There is precedence for that. The fact that both of them are stupid enough to allow themselves to be filmed/documented ala Manziel, means they may end up failing a drug test in the future.


To suspend a player for weed they'd need to fail a drug test (actually multiple tests to warrant suspension for marijuana) or else the NFLPA would **** all over the league office. The drug testing policy and drug related suspensions are governed by the CBA and the NFL can't arbitrarily change the policy just b/c they feel like it or b/c of some video where a player is smoking something people are alleging is weed.

The personal conduct policy is an interesting take, but as others have mentioned there is ZERO precedence that ALLEGED drug use would kick off any type of NFL investigation. Alleged recreational marijuana use is NOT why the PCP was created/introduced and has NEVER been applied for this type of instance despite this NOT being close to the first time an NFL player was on video for allegedly doing drugs.

I'm not saying the league would use the PCP (heh) in this case. I'm just saying it's out there and it's vague enough that the league could use it to try and make an example of VHIII if they so choose to. Would there be push back from the NFLPA? Oh hell yeah. That's not my point, though. At the least, they could use the policy to start an investigation.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:15 am

Buc2 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
To suspend a player for weed they'd need to fail a drug test (actually multiple tests to warrant suspension for marijuana) or else the NFLPA would **** all over the league office. The drug testing policy and drug related suspensions are governed by the CBA and the NFL can't arbitrarily change the policy just b/c they feel like it or b/c of some video where a player is smoking something people are alleging is weed.

The personal conduct policy is an interesting take, but as others have mentioned there is ZERO precedence that ALLEGED drug use would kick off any type of NFL investigation. Alleged recreational marijuana use is NOT why the PCP was created/introduced and has NEVER been applied for this type of instance despite this NOT being close to the first time an NFL player was on video for allegedly doing drugs.

I'm not saying the league would use the PCP (heh) in this case. I'm just saying it's out there and it's vague enough that the league could use it to try and make an example of VHIII if they so choose to. Would there be push back from the NFLPA? Oh hell yeah. That's not my point, though. At the least, they could use the policy to start an investigation.


Fair. I just don't believe the PCP was created or intended for cases like this.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby Buc2 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:38 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Buc2 wrote:I'm not saying the league would use the PCP (heh) in this case. I'm just saying it's out there and it's vague enough that the league could use it to try and make an example of VHIII if they so choose to. Would there be push back from the NFLPA? Oh hell yeah. That's not my point, though. At the least, they could use the policy to start an investigation.


Fair. I just don't believe the PCP was created or intended for cases like this.

I don't think anything will come of this either. Vern will probably get a "talking to" by the coaching staff. But other than that...we move on.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby PrimeMinister » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:48 am

Buc2 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Fair. I just don't believe the PCP was created or intended for cases like this.

I don't think anything will come of this either. Vern will probably get a "talking to" by the coaching staff. But other than that...we move on.


So you’re saying BZ is overreacting? Never!
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:01 am

Naismith wrote:Man, this video is two years too late.

Ouch lol
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:03 am

Our CB position really is in terrible shape. We have Brent "Grandpa" Grimes, Vernon "Nickel Bag" Hargreaves, and Ryan "SMH" Smith as our top 3 CBs folks!
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:03 am

We could go corner 1 & 2. Wouldn't surprise nor upset me.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:09 am

real bucs fan wrote:Our CB position really is in terrible shape. We have Brent "Grandpa" Grimes, Vernon "Nickel Bag" Hargreaves, and Ryan "SMH" Smith as our top 3 CBs folks!


you're forgetting nickel CB/former Iranian president Jude Ahmadinejad

edit: oh he got cut lol
Last edited by beardmcdoug on Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:10 am

real bucs fan wrote:Our CB position really is in terrible shape. We have Brent "Grandpa" Grimes, Vernon "Nickel Bag" Hargreaves, and Ryan "SMH" Smith as our top 3 CBs folks!


But we're good to go at Right Guard w/ Sweezy, amitite?
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:19 am

DreadNaught wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Our CB position really is in terrible shape. We have Brent "Grandpa" Grimes, Vernon "Nickel Bag" Hargreaves, and Ryan "SMH" Smith as our top 3 CBs folks!


But we're good to go at Right Guard w/ Sweezy, amitite?

Only your boyfriend knows that.

Also CB>G and it aint even close.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:36 am

real bucs fan wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
But we're good to go at Right Guard w/ Sweezy, amitite?

Only your boyfriend knows that.

Also CB>G and it aint even close.


lol. Got me there (damn typos).

Just making a point that CB isn't the only position needing to be addressed. ;)
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby Noles1724 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:56 am

deltbucs wrote:
Rocker wrote:Random thought just popped into my head. Does anyone else find it amusing that Bootz is brushing off this incident; when he has such a well established line that anyone that’s done drugs is a junkie, worthless human being, second class citizen, beyond redemption, etc?

Meh....Not really amusing. Same type if **** he does all the type. Say whatever he needs to try to start an argument with someone.


yup
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby NYBF » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:17 am

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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:02 pm



I think that is called selective memory. The women in my family suffer from it also.
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Re: Vernon Hargreaves: Nickel (bag) Corner

Postby Buc You » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:27 pm

The smoked has become the smoker.
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