Hypothetical trade

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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:11 am

One trick pony that stayed a one trick pony. Hey MJ I'm down, lets have three straight years of playoffs with him...
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby theBKwhopper » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:28 am

MJW wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:

We didnt handle things right. I dont think we recovered any value for Lynch or Sapp and now the same thing will happen with Gerald.


This is probably true. All I ask is that we give Gerald a playoff run or two before it happens. He's in real danger of becoming the greatest Buccaneer ever not to play in the post-season here.

This is truly depressing.
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:31 am

I get depressed when he talks about how big and good the NFL offensive linemen are.
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby MJW » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:25 am

theBKwhopper wrote:
MJW wrote:
This is probably true. All I ask is that we give Gerald a playoff run or two before it happens. He's in real danger of becoming the greatest Buccaneer ever not to play in the post-season here.

This is truly depressing.


I fear his career will end up like Paul Gruber's, or James Wilder's - in a dusty book of team history nobody but the hardcores remembers in 20 years. He's already underrated around here by far too many people. I doubt he's a guy fans around the league think about or talk about much. Yet he's in the prime of a Hall Of Fame career.
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby Super K » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:49 am

MJW wrote:
theBKwhopper wrote:This is truly depressing.


I fear his career will end up like Paul Gruber's, or James Wilder's - in a dusty book of team history nobody but the hardcores remembers in 20 years. He's already underrated around here by far too many people. I doubt he's a guy fans around the league think about or talk about much. Yet he's in the prime of a Hall Of Fame career.


You say he's underrated around here but in the same paragraph suggest that he's HOF material...

Stop...he's a good player, not a great player..he gets pumped up by fans, local media because we haven't had a ton of good players over the last 8 years...

He's Richard Seymour...And, just like with Seymour, at some point we should try to flip him for viable options/assets...

At the very least I hope Buckner gets in his grill and let's him know that just shooting the gap out of the 3 technique isn't "doing his job" and demands more of him...
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby MJW » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:29 am

Super K wrote:
MJW wrote:
I fear his career will end up like Paul Gruber's, or James Wilder's - in a dusty book of team history nobody but the hardcores remembers in 20 years. He's already underrated around here by far too many people. I doubt he's a guy fans around the league think about or talk about much. Yet he's in the prime of a Hall Of Fame career.


You say he's underrated around here but in the same paragraph suggest that he's HOF material...

Stop...he's a good player, not a great player..he gets pumped up by fans, local media because we haven't had a ton of good players over the last 8 years...

He's Richard Seymour...And, just like with Seymour, at some point we should try to flip him for viable options/assets...

At the very least I hope Buckner gets in his grill and let's him know that just shooting the gap out of the 3 technique isn't "doing his job" and demands more of him...


You're proving my point - he is having a Hall Of Fame career and our own fanbase doesn't acknowledge it. He's made 6 Pro Bowls and is still in the middle of his prime. Warren Sapp only made 7. Depending on your source, he's been 1st or 2nd team All Pro in five seasons. He is one of the most dominant interior linemen of his generation, simple as that.

Should we consider trading him for assets at some point? Every smart team should consider trading everyone for assets at some point. You never know when someone else will value your players more than you do. But we're not remotely there yet.
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby Super K » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:41 am

MJW wrote:
Super K wrote:
You say he's underrated around here but in the same paragraph suggest that he's HOF material...

Stop...he's a good player, not a great player..he gets pumped up by fans, local media because we haven't had a ton of good players over the last 8 years...

He's Richard Seymour...And, just like with Seymour, at some point we should try to flip him for viable options/assets...

At the very least I hope Buckner gets in his grill and let's him know that just shooting the gap out of the 3 technique isn't "doing his job" and demands more of him...


You're proving my point - he is having a Hall Of Fame career and our own fanbase doesn't acknowledge it. He's made 6 Pro Bowls and is still in the middle of his prime. Warren Sapp only made 7. Depending on your source, he's been 1st or 2nd team All Pro in five seasons. He is one of the most dominant interior linemen of his generation, simple as that.

Should we consider trading him for assets at some point? Every smart team should consider trading everyone for assets at some point. You never know when someone else will value your players more than you do. But we're not remotely there yet.


Probowls?...that's the HOF measuring stick?...or is it Sapp?..because folks are like a wet noodles in the wind when comparing GMac to Sapp:

- can't do it, they are different players on different teams etc

- it makes my argument so I'm gonna compare him to our all time great to elevate Gerald's status

Again, he is a good DL, but FAR from a generational talent, all time great or HOF player...just like his draft pal Suh...

Hea on the wrong side of 30, has expressed feelings that he doesn't want to be versatile (scheme or line game wise), he wants to play 3 tech and shoot the damn gap upfield (when he's not leaning on the OL)..

Could he still be a part of something here, for this team and D?..sure as ****...and for what we are paying him, they'd better get it out of him...

But if he's not bought in, and I mean 100%, or get a tasty offer, I'd look at it in a heartbeat...
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby MJW » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:48 am

Super K wrote:
MJW wrote:
You're proving my point - he is having a Hall Of Fame career and our own fanbase doesn't acknowledge it. He's made 6 Pro Bowls and is still in the middle of his prime. Warren Sapp only made 7. Depending on your source, he's been 1st or 2nd team All Pro in five seasons. He is one of the most dominant interior linemen of his generation, simple as that.

Should we consider trading him for assets at some point? Every smart team should consider trading everyone for assets at some point. You never know when someone else will value your players more than you do. But we're not remotely there yet.


Probowls?...that's the HOF measuring stick?...or is it Sapp?..because folks are like a wet noodles in the wind when comparing GMac to Sapp:

- can't do it, they are different players on different teams etc

- it makes my argument so I'm gonna compare him to our all time great to elevate Gerald's status

Again, he is a good DL, but FAR from a generational talent, all time great or HOF player...just like his draft pal Suh...

Hea on the wrong side of 30, has expressed feelings that he doesn't want to be versatile (scheme or line game wise), he wants to play 3 tech and shoot the damn gap upfield (when he's not leaning on the OL)..

Could he still be a part of something here, for this team and D?..sure as ****...and for what we are paying him, they'd better get it out of him...

But if he's not bought in, and I mean 100%, or get a tasty offer, I'd look at it in a heartbeat...


I'm not sure what measuring stick you'd like to use. He's one of the best players at his position in the NFL and has been for almost a decade.

As for him buying in, as long as he plays hard and produces, I don't much care. If you're looking for him to be a leader of men, that's not who he is, and his attitude about schemes doesn't move the needle either way. He's a guy who blows up blockers and makes things easier for the guys around him. That's what he's paid to be, and he is.

Like I said, I listen to every call. But am I shopping him? Heck no, I'm not. Not unless we're going to go full-blown Cleveland In 2016 rebuild. Is that what you're hoping for?
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby mdb1958 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:25 am

I can hardly wait for the sports world to start talking about how he got to Canton the first time and how much better it would have been if not for being on a sorry ass team like Tampa.

Your right MJ, Tampa better hurry up and get him in the playoffs...
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby Naismith » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:14 am

The value for Gerald McCoy in a trade would probably be a third round pick.

I don't understand the "get something for him mentality". You're not getting nothing if you don't trade him. You're getting his contributions on the field.
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby Doctor » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:30 pm

Bingo.

It's already been said he's been a top 3 name in his position for pretty much his whole career, being #1 plenty of years. That's what HoF do. And he's done it lacking help. Can you imagine if we finally land him his Simeon Rice? Maybe it's JPP, maybe not. Maybe it's a combo of him and Curry? All I know is that he has more help this season (on paper) than ever in his career. And we've dump two fat lazy guys and lined him up next to a SB champion who has overcome adversity and a young guy who is super hungry to prove himself.
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby Cheb » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:33 pm

Doctor wrote:Bingo.

It's already been said he's been a top 3 name in his position for pretty much his whole career, being #1 plenty of years. That's what HoF do. And he's done it lacking help. Can you imagine if we finally land him his Simeon Rice? Maybe it's JPP, maybe not. Maybe it's a combo of him and Curry? All I know is that he has more help this season (on paper) than ever in his career. And we've dump two fat lazy guys and lined him up next to a SB champion who has overcome adversity and a young guy who is super hungry to prove himself.


Three of our projected four starters on the D-line have Superbowl rings. That's not nothing.
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby Doctor » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:08 pm

Cheb wrote:
Doctor wrote:Bingo.

It's already been said he's been a top 3 name in his position for pretty much his whole career, being #1 plenty of years. That's what HoF do. And he's done it lacking help. Can you imagine if we finally land him his Simeon Rice? Maybe it's JPP, maybe not. Maybe it's a combo of him and Curry? All I know is that he has more help this season (on paper) than ever in his career. And we've dump two fat lazy guys and lined him up next to a SB champion who has overcome adversity and a young guy who is super hungry to prove himself.


Three of our projected four starters on the D-line have Superbowl rings. That's not nothing.

DAMN that has to make McCoy hungry.... can you imagine that first meeting if they all wear their bling. lol
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:00 pm

MJW wrote:
terrytate wrote:
They had Sapp playing as a 2 gapper his first two years in Oakland. As soon as they put him back to the 3, bam....10 sacks.


Truth. They had him as a 5 tech for some insane reason. Then they moved him back to 3 tech and he was back to being Warren Sapp. He probably has 15 more career sacks if they don't waste him that way.

I'd like to point something semi-related out: We let Sapp and Lynch go a bit too soon, but credit to the organization for letting Brooks and Barber essentially retire as part of the family. We never had to see them in other jerseys. I appreciate that.


I agree on Barber, but Brooks was this close to signing with the Saints after we cut him. He had a workout there, thankfully he didn't sign and win a ring with the Saints.
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby MJW » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:49 pm

Miller4Prez64 wrote:
MJW wrote:
Truth. They had him as a 5 tech for some insane reason. Then they moved him back to 3 tech and he was back to being Warren Sapp. He probably has 15 more career sacks if they don't waste him that way.

I'd like to point something semi-related out: We let Sapp and Lynch go a bit too soon, but credit to the organization for letting Brooks and Barber essentially retire as part of the family. We never had to see them in other jerseys. I appreciate that.


I agree on Barber, but Brooks was this close to signing with the Saints after we cut him. He had a workout there, thankfully he didn't sign and win a ring with the Saints.


I recall that, but I wasn't too worried at the time. It was evident his last year that he was done.
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:52 am

Doctor wrote:Bingo.

It's already been said he's been a top 3 name in his position for pretty much his whole career, being #1 plenty of years. That's what HoF do. And he's done it lacking help. Can you imagine if we finally land him his Simeon Rice? Maybe it's JPP, maybe not. Maybe it's a combo of him and Curry? All I know is that he has more help this season (on paper) than ever in his career. And we've dump two fat lazy guys and lined him up next to a SB champion who has overcome adversity and a young guy who is super hungry to prove himself.



Why? Why did he do what ever without help?

You can start with Albert Haynesworth.

2014,15,16,17 ---------------- nothing!

2010,11,12,13 ---------------------- miss or nothing!
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:09 am

We have drafted 9 defensive linemen in 7 years. Someone prove to me that isnt last in the league.
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby Caradoc » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:46 am

McCoy has HOF talent, but lacks HOF achievements. People here seriously overrate him. He's "talked about" as one of the best, but 5 years after he retires, all people are going to say about him is "Gerald who?" unless he starts getting some playoff wins.
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby Cheb » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:57 am

Caradoc wrote:McCoy has HOF talent, but lacks HOF achievements. People here seriously overrate him. He's "talked about" as one of the best, but 5 years after he retires, all people are going to say about him is "Gerald who?" unless he starts getting some playoff wins.


He's been on some dogshit teams. I don't hold him accountable for our team's past failures, just like I'm not mad at LVD or Demar Dotson.
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:23 pm

I don't think McCoy is a HOFer. He's a guy that would qualify for the Hall of Very Good.
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby Caradoc » Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:35 pm

Cheb wrote:
Caradoc wrote:McCoy has HOF talent, but lacks HOF achievements. People here seriously overrate him. He's "talked about" as one of the best, but 5 years after he retires, all people are going to say about him is "Gerald who?" unless he starts getting some playoff wins.


He's been on some dogshit teams. I don't hold him accountable for our team's past failures, just like I'm not mad at LVD or Demar Dotson.



I don't blame him either. But nobody is going to recognize him if something big doesn't happen for him. You want to get in the HOF, you need to either be on a winning team and be a big part of the reason why that team wins, or you have to have outrageous production that can't be overlooked. Unfortunately for McCoy, he doesn't have either.

Gerald has been "among the best" at his position for a while, but he has never been "clearly the best", nor has his ability really even remotely affected the team's win/loss record. Whether or not that's his fault is irrelevant. Like Miller said, he's been very good. he still has time to make it but he's gotta do better and get better results.
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby MJW » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:59 am

Caradoc wrote:
Cheb wrote:
He's been on some dogshit teams. I don't hold him accountable for our team's past failures, just like I'm not mad at LVD or Demar Dotson.



I don't blame him either. But nobody is going to recognize him if something big doesn't happen for him. You want to get in the HOF, you need to either be on a winning team and be a big part of the reason why that team wins, or you have to have outrageous production that can't be overlooked. Unfortunately for McCoy, he doesn't have either.

Gerald has been "among the best" at his position for a while, but he has never been "clearly the best", nor has his ability really even remotely affected the team's win/loss record. Whether or not that's his fault is irrelevant. Like Miller said, he's been very good. he still has time to make it but he's gotta do better and get better results.


Lotta guys have Hall Of Fame careers but don't make the Hall Of Fame.

Other guys wouldn't be remotely Hall Of Fame worthy if they hadn't landed in perfect situations, but they're enshrined.

Gerald McCoy IS having a Hall Of Fame career. But I never said he'd make the Hall Of Fame. Sadly, it'll take this franchise becoming relevant for that to happen.
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby acmillis » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:27 am

MJW wrote:
Caradoc wrote:

I don't blame him either. But nobody is going to recognize him if something big doesn't happen for him. You want to get in the HOF, you need to either be on a winning team and be a big part of the reason why that team wins, or you have to have outrageous production that can't be overlooked. Unfortunately for McCoy, he doesn't have either.

Gerald has been "among the best" at his position for a while, but he has never been "clearly the best", nor has his ability really even remotely affected the team's win/loss record. Whether or not that's his fault is irrelevant. Like Miller said, he's been very good. he still has time to make it but he's gotta do better and get better results.


Lotta guys have Hall Of Fame careers but don't make the Hall Of Fame.

Other guys wouldn't be remotely Hall Of Fame worthy if they hadn't landed in perfect situations, but they're enshrined.

Gerald McCoy IS having a Hall Of Fame career. But I never said he'd make the Hall Of Fame. Sadly, it'll take this franchise becoming relevant for that to happen.

Lotta guys??? You have "lotta" you can roll off for me?
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby Buc2 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:33 am

acmillis wrote:
MJW wrote:
Lotta guys have Hall Of Fame careers but don't make the Hall Of Fame.

Other guys wouldn't be remotely Hall Of Fame worthy if they hadn't landed in perfect situations, but they're enshrined.

Gerald McCoy IS having a Hall Of Fame career. But I never said he'd make the Hall Of Fame. Sadly, it'll take this franchise becoming relevant for that to happen.

Lotta guys??? You have "lotta" you can roll off for me?

That's tough to answer, but there are plenty to have never played in a SB (not, never won a SB, but never played in one).
Here's 15 I got from a quick internet search:
Barry Sanders
**** Butkus
Deacon Jones
Merlin Olsen
OJ Simpson
Gale Sayers
Earl Campbell
Ken Houston
Eric Dickerson
Larry Wilson
Warren Moon
Lee Roy Selmon
Dan Fouts
Derrick Thomas
Steve Largent
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:47 am

Not only are teams able to function without a stalwart like GMC, they can manage to win too. How is that even possible?
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby Cheb » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:06 am

mdb1958 wrote:Not only are teams able to function without a stalwart like GMC, they can manage to win too. How is that even possible?


Most teams have good players, mdb.

I don't really see your point here.
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:51 am

Cheb wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:Not only are teams able to function without a stalwart like GMC, they can manage to win too. How is that even possible?


Most teams have good players, mdb.

I don't really see your point here.

I hope the point gets figured out here in a few years or less.
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby Caradoc » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:16 pm

Buc2 wrote:
acmillis wrote:Lotta guys??? You have "lotta" you can roll off for me?

That's tough to answer, but there are plenty to have never played in a SB (not, never won a SB, but never played in one).
Here's 15 I got from a quick internet search:
Barry Sanders
**** Butkus
Deacon Jones
Merlin Olsen
OJ Simpson
Gale Sayers
Earl Campbell
Ken Houston
Eric Dickerson
Larry Wilson
Warren Moon
Lee Roy Selmon
Dan Fouts
Derrick Thomas
Steve Largent


Does anyone really think Gerald has been a player of that calibre his career?
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby Super K » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:06 am

Caradoc wrote:
Buc2 wrote:That's tough to answer, but there are plenty to have never played in a SB (not, never won a SB, but never played in one).
Here's 15 I got from a quick internet search:
Barry Sanders
**** Butkus
Deacon Jones
Merlin Olsen
OJ Simpson
Gale Sayers
Earl Campbell
Ken Houston
Eric Dickerson
Larry Wilson
Warren Moon
Lee Roy Selmon
Dan Fouts
Derrick Thomas
Steve Largent


Does anyone really think Gerald has been a player of that calibre his career?


Hell ****ing no..
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Re: Hypothetical trade

Postby Phantom Phenom » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:14 am

Caradoc wrote:
Buc2 wrote:That's tough to answer, but there are plenty to have never played in a SB (not, never won a SB, but never played in one).
Here's 15 I got from a quick internet search:
Barry Sanders
**** Butkus
Deacon Jones
Merlin Olsen
OJ Simpson
Gale Sayers
Earl Campbell
Ken Houston
Eric Dickerson
Larry Wilson
Warren Moon
Lee Roy Selmon
Dan Fouts
Derrick Thomas
Steve Largent


Does anyone really think Gerald has been a player of that calibre his career?



LOL :roll:
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