Brate: 6 year extension

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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby RobR » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:00 am

Anyone else unsure as to why nobody in this interview (http://www.buccaneers.com/videos/videos ... 6295a94bf9) is addressing the fact that Cam Brate and Casey Phillips are almost certainly long lost siblings.
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby .irishHITMAN4rent » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:04 am

RobR wrote:Anyone else unsure as to why nobody in this interview (http://www.buccaneers.com/videos/videos ... 6295a94bf9) is addressing the fact that Cam Brate and Casey Phillips are almost certainly long lost siblings.




Yup, I have been thinking the exact same thing for month's!!!
It's crazy how similar they are
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby UbuntuBuc » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:30 am

Deuce wrote:A ton of people around here felt that we would not pay him and let him walk after next season.

I feel like it was only me and a couple of others that thought he was here for the long term.


Yep. I was looking to find that thread to remind people about what they said.
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby Doctor » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:46 am

UbuntuBuc wrote:
Deuce wrote:A ton of people around here felt that we would not pay him and let him walk after next season.

I feel like it was only me and a couple of others that thought he was here for the long term.


Yep. I was looking to find that thread to remind people about what they said.

IIRC most wanted to keep him, as did I, but felt OBP wouldn't deal out the $8+M/yr deal he could chase on the market. We got him for 6.8M/year. Apparently, he wasn't chasing it- who knew. Trey Burton just got $32M over 4 from the Bears and Brate is not only the same age but bigger and has done more in each of his last two years than Burton has done in his last two combined. Brate could have chased some paper but didn't. No one saw that coming.
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby Deuce » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:48 am

UbuntuBuc wrote:
Deuce wrote:A ton of people around here felt that we would not pay him and let him walk after next season.

I feel like it was only me and a couple of others that thought he was here for the long term.


Yep. I was looking to find that thread to remind people about what they said.


I was going to do the same but surprisingly, most copped to it, albeit in a dismissive way. Except one (you know who).
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby Ken Carson » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:23 am

Trey Burton gets 4 years $32 million from the Bears. About $1.5m more per year than our deal for Brate. Both are 26.

23 catches for 248 and 5 TDs is what Burton did last year. Brate did that as a part time player in 2015, before averaging 53 rec, 630 yards and 7 TDs over the past two seasons.

Based on market price, an't see how Brate's deal is anything but a positive.
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby Buc2 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:35 am

Sammich wrote:
MJW wrote:
I'm not getting dragged into this because cooler heads will not prevail.

We re-signed a good young player at a market value deal. The end.


To continue for MJW here, the point isn't what we're paying them. We have plenty of cap room. The point is the opportunity cost of having both of them. We are 2 deep at a less important position while we remain 0 deep at more important positions. Our lines suck and no amount of TEs or slot WRs will change that. If we intended to move forward with OJ then we should have traded Brate. If we intended to extend Brate then we should have drafted someone besides OJ.

Its like spending money on a second set of fancy wheels for your car while the broken transmission is sitting on the ground next to it.

I don't mean this a negative about Brate or OJ. I think they are both fine young players. I just feel like whichever is the "2nd" is a luxury we aren't a good enough team to be able to afford.

So how does signing Brate hurt those 0 deep positions?
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby UbuntuBuc » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:42 am

Doctor wrote:
UbuntuBuc wrote:
Yep. I was looking to find that thread to remind people about what they said.

IIRC most wanted to keep him, as did I, but felt OBP wouldn't deal out the $8+M/yr deal he could chase on the market. We got him for 6.8M/year. Apparently, he wasn't chasing it- who knew. Trey Burton just got $32M over 4 from the Bears and Brate is not only the same age but bigger and has done more in each of his last two years than Burton has done in his last two combined. Brate could have chased some paper but didn't. No one saw that coming.


Brate likely does not need to chase the money. Harvard education and all. He might also feel this team is on the cusp and wanted to stay. Some of us might have seen that coming.
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:53 am

RobR wrote:Anyone else unsure as to why nobody in this interview (http://www.buccaneers.com/videos/videos ... 6295a94bf9) is addressing the fact that Cam Brate and Casey Phillips are almost certainly long lost siblings.


Per @Insiderrr
Brate decided to give the Bucs a discount in order to continue his Lannister-esque love affair with Bucs reporter Casey Phillips.
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby Buc2 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:59 am

real bucs fan wrote:
RobR wrote:Anyone else unsure as to why nobody in this interview (http://www.buccaneers.com/videos/videos ... 6295a94bf9) is addressing the fact that Cam Brate and Casey Phillips are almost certainly long lost siblings.


Per @Insiderrr
Brate decided to give the Bucs a discount in order to continue his Lannister-esque love affair with Bucs reporter Casey Phillips.

*****. Costing men since they started walking upright.
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby Buc You » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:10 pm

Buc2 wrote:So how does signing Brate hurt those 0 deep positions?

You didn't know about the new NFL rule that gives any team a starting caliber player at a position of need if they trade away a starting-caliber player from a position they don't need as much?
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby IchabodCrane84 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:33 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
RobR wrote:Anyone else unsure as to why nobody in this interview (http://www.buccaneers.com/videos/videos ... 6295a94bf9) is addressing the fact that Cam Brate and Casey Phillips are almost certainly long lost siblings.


Per @Insiderrr
Brate decided to give the Bucs a discount in order to continue his Lannister-esque love affair with Bucs reporter Casey Phillips.


I thought it was because he liked living with Humph and Griffin too much.
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby real bucs fan » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:38 pm

IchabodCrane84 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:


I thought it was because he liked living with Humph and Griffin too much.

That would be much more of a House Martell thing...
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:43 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
IchabodCrane84 wrote:
I thought it was because he liked living with Humph and Griffin too much.

That would be much more of a House Martell thing...


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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby Super K » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:22 pm

LMFAO....

This board is the damn best... absolutely the best..
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby Four Verticals » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:00 pm

Sammich wrote:
Let's say we decided Brate was the guy we wanted to roll with just for conversation. We could have then used OJ's pick to draft T. White, Takk McKinley, Forrest Lamp, or someone like that and it would have made us a better team overall.

If OJ was the guy then we could have traded Brate for a player at a position where we have a hole or a pick to draft that guy.

Teams only have so many resources to work with and the objective is to build the best team. Devoting a lot of resources to a backup or role player when you have glaring holes leads to 5-11 seasons.


Brate is not a very good inline TE thus Howard was drafted. His value is lining up as a move TE and down by the goal line. This is in particular for the QB the Bucs have who works best with tall receivers and are more stationary.
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby Four Verticals » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:04 pm

MJW wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
OJ Howard was BPA and does things that Brate will never do as far as blocking. For a team that values 2 TE sets, we need both and we can't get back the 1st round pick we got for Howard. Your explanation still doesn't explain outrage or even questioning singing Brate. If he walked we would have used a resource on a replacement. We likely wouldn't have gone into a season with Howard, especially with how green he is and his injury, and Auclair or Cross being basically a starter. If Howard develops to what we all hope, we can still trade Brate, but as of now Brate is our best option and we have a ton of hope in Howard. Even if Howard develops, 2 good TEs is highly coveted around the league. The Patriots value TE more than WR. Letting Brate walk, especially if we could have been had for this amount of money, would have been worst case scenario.


I'm not 100% clear on how the whole, "He's a tight end who doesn't block!" thing is a plus in his column. It makes it seem a lot like we just paid a slot receiver 6/41.


To you it would.

To those who understand the game, they would recognize the value this particular player has for this team currently. BTW.....if this hasn't been mentioned later in this thread....his deal is a one year $7mil deal with an option to kick in a secondary guarantee on league day 5 in 2019. So while the $41mil makes for a nice dramatic piece, it has very little to do with the truth.
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby Brazen331 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:22 pm

Doctor wrote:
UbuntuBuc wrote:
Yep. I was looking to find that thread to remind people about what they said.

IIRC most wanted to keep him, as did I, but felt OBP wouldn't deal out the $8+M/yr deal he could chase on the market. We got him for 6.8M/year. Apparently, he wasn't chasing it- who knew. Trey Burton just got $32M over 4 from the Bears and Brate is not only the same age but bigger and has done more in each of his last two years than Burton has done in his last two combined. Brate could have chased some paper but didn't. No one saw that coming.


It’s a sign of intelligence. Who knows if he will gel as well on a new team? He has more of an opportunity to get paid for multiple years on a new contract here. The situation is important with this player as he does not necessarily have elite measurables or a full toolbox for his position.
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby MJW » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:26 pm

Four Verticals wrote:
Sammich wrote:
To continue for MJW here, the point isn't what we're paying them. We have plenty of cap room. The point is the opportunity cost of having both of them. We are 2 deep at a less important position while we remain 0 deep at more important positions. Our lines suck and no amount of TEs or slot WRs will change that. If we intended to move forward with OJ then we should have traded Brate. If we intended to extend Brate then we should have drafted someone besides OJ.

Its like spending money on a second set of fancy wheels for your car while the broken transmission is sitting on the ground next to it.

I don't mean this a negative about Brate or OJ. I think they are both fine young players. I just feel like whichever is the "2nd" is a luxury we aren't a good enough team to be able to afford.


Brate and Howard play different positions and have different roles in the Bucs offense. The way the Bucs are structured, both are needed.


Oh.
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby Four Verticals » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:15 pm

MJW wrote:
Four Verticals wrote:
Brate and Howard play different positions and have different roles in the Bucs offense. The way the Bucs are structured, both are needed.


Oh.


You finally realized they play different positions?

Let Dirk explain it:

If you really think about it, we’ve still got Cam Brate and Adam Humphries who just aren’t getting very many chances right now – two guys that are good football players, too. They’re just not getting chances. Hey, it’s a long year. We’re going to need them all.”
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:17 pm

Maybe you'll answer now...

Bootz2004 wrote:
Four Verticals wrote:
Brate and Howard play different positions and have different roles in the Bucs offense. The way the Bucs are structured, both are needed.


"If Brate and Howard play different positions, why are people saying Brate provides depth incase Howard gets injured?"
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby Four Verticals » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:00 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Maybe you'll answer now...

Bootz2004 wrote:"If Brate and Howard play different positions, why are people saying Brate provides depth incase Howard gets injured?"
-Bootz LLC


You'll have to ask "people" and not me.
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:32 pm

Brate has chemistry with Jameis, but with the suspension in effect, he’s been an odd man out.

There’s an out at the end of the season for this deal, ya?
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby MJW » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:51 pm

real bucs fan wrote:Brate has chemistry with Jameis, but with the suspension in effect, he’s been an odd man out.

There’s an out at the end of the season for this deal, ya?


What shouldn't be lost is that without Winston to feed Brate the ball over the middle, Fitz has instead been throwing the ball down the field to actual playmakers. Brate is a security blanket for our "franchise quarterback" that our backup does not need because he can complete passes to receivers.
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby Cheb » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:25 am

MJW wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Brate has chemistry with Jameis, but with the suspension in effect, he’s been an odd man out.

There’s an out at the end of the season for this deal, ya?


What shouldn't be lost is that without Winston to feed Brate the ball over the middle, Fitz has instead been throwing the ball down the field to actual playmakers. Brate is a security blanket for our "franchise quarterback" that our backup does not need because he can complete passes to receivers.


A difficult point to argue against.

I like me some Cam Brate and I'm glad that he was extended. But there's little reason to target Brate on a quick pop pass for an eight yard gain when you can hit a wide open DJ for a touchdown.
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby Deuce » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:37 am

MJW wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Brate has chemistry with Jameis, but with the suspension in effect, he’s been an odd man out.

There’s an out at the end of the season for this deal, ya?


What shouldn't be lost is that without Winston to feed Brate the ball over the middle, Fitz has instead been throwing the ball down the field to actual playmakers. Brate is a security blanket for our "franchise quarterback" that our backup does not need because he can complete passes to receivers.


This reads like someone who doesn't know football at all. Almost every QB has a "security blanket", sans maybe Rodgers. Brady and Brees throw passes to their backs often. A lot of QB's do, some have tight ends, others have a receiver (usually a short, white guy). Winston has Brate and sometimes Humphries.

Fitz hasn't had one in these first two games but you know we're not going to keep getting 75-yard TD's every week, right?

The Winston/Brate connection is a good thing, not a bad thing. For all OJ does better, Brate still has the best hands of the two and is a sure thing in the redzone. OJ is a better blocker and much better at YAC. I wish some of you could wait more than two games before dumping our franchise QB and newly-extended TE. I can't imagine how bad you'd be as head coaches.
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby Buc2 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:46 am

Deuce wrote:I wish some of you could wait more than two games before dumping our franchise QB and newly-extended TE. I can't imagine how bad you'd be as head coaches.

Nice!
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:00 am

Deuce wrote:
MJW wrote:
What shouldn't be lost is that without Winston to feed Brate the ball over the middle, Fitz has instead been throwing the ball down the field to actual playmakers. Brate is a security blanket for our "franchise quarterback" that our backup does not need because he can complete passes to receivers.


This reads like someone who doesn't know football at all. Almost every QB has a "security blanket", sans maybe Rodgers. Brady and Brees throw passes to their backs often. A lot of QB's do, some have tight ends, others have a receiver (usually a short, white guy). Winston has Brate and sometimes Humphries.

Fitz hasn't had one in these first two games but you know we're not going to keep getting 75-yard TD's every week, right?

The Winston/Brate connection is a good thing, not a bad thing. For all OJ does better, Brate still has the best hands of the two and is a sure thing in the redzone. OJ is a better blocker and much better at YAC. I wish some of you could wait more than two games before dumping our franchise QB and newly-extended TE. I can't imagine how bad you'd be as head coaches.


She doesn't know football. She's proven that time and time again. (so have you, honestly) but that's neither here nor there. You're right here and I'm not a Cam Brate fan. I think his ceiling has been reached and OBP knew that, which is why they drafted OJ Howard.

Now while I'm not big on Brate I will admit he adds value on 3rd downs and especially in the red zone. So much so that he was triple covered on the Godwin TD this past Sunday. Defenses are accounting for him and making Fitz prove he can make plays down the field. 2 games in he's doing that.

It's also comical to me that MJ claims Winston is unable to make throws to WRs.....yet he's made most of his throws to WRs.
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby Ken Carson » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:07 am

MJW wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Brate has chemistry with Jameis, but with the suspension in effect, he’s been an odd man out.

There’s an out at the end of the season for this deal, ya?


What shouldn't be lost is that without Winston to feed Brate the ball over the middle, Fitz has instead been throwing the ball down the field to actual playmakers. Brate is a security blanket for our "franchise quarterback" that our backup does not need because he can complete passes to receivers.


Jameis' last 4 games last season, target by player.

Evans: 5, 5, 8, 13 = 31
DJax: 7, 1 (left injured), DNP, DNP = 8
OJ: 6, 1 (left injured), DNP, DNP = 7
Godwin: 6, 2, 6, 12 = 26
Hump: 3, 5, 3, 11 = 24
Brate: 1, 5, 4, 5 = 15

So, he targeted his "security blanket" half as much as Evans, and significantly less than his 2nd and 3rd WRs. It took both DJax and Howard to be in walking boots on the sidelines of the Atlanta game for Brate to crack top 5 targets on the team. In the one game all of the above played, targets went DJax, Godwin, OJ, Evans, Hump, and then Brate, with a nice distribution amongst the players

Facts don't care about your hyperboles.
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Re: Brate: 6 year extension

Postby viva la Reagan » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:38 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:She doesn't know football. She's proven that time and time again. (so have you, honestly) but that's neither here nor there. You're right here and I'm not a Cam Brate fan. I think his ceiling has been reached and OBP knew that, which is why they drafted OJ Howard.

Now while I'm not big on Brate I will admit he adds value on 3rd downs and especially in the red zone. So much so that he was triple covered on the Godwin TD this past Sunday. Defenses are accounting for him and making Fitz prove he can make plays down the field. 2 games in he's doing that.

It's also comical to me that MJ claims Winston is unable to make throws to WRs.....yet he's made most of his throws to WRs.


the bucs didn’t draft howard because OBP thought brate had reached his ceiling. there wasn’t any talk of drafting a tight end early in that draft. OBP was pleasantly surprised, actually shocked that howard was still on the board when they picked. no one expected OJ to drop that far. clearly, it was a pure BPA selection and licht has said as much. dirk’s offense likes to run two TE sets, so howard as BPA at pick 19 was a steal and fit the offensive strategy. you don’t pay a guy $41mm with $18mm guaranteed when you have much cheaper options in OJ, auclair, and cross, unless you think he has upside.
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