To Suh or not to Suh

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If Miami decides to trade Suh away, are you good with this or would you rather pass?

I'm absolutely on board.
23
66%
I'd rather pass and find our fix with the draft/other FA's
12
34%
 
Total votes : 35

Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby ComingThisFall » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:04 pm

Jason Bourne wrote:Evan Smith probably wouldn’t like Suh here ..lol

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6fl0XffpBsI


Ryan Fitzpatrick might have beef too but **** it. This defense needs more talented players with mean streaks.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mH0VSjkFIQI
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby Buc2 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:08 pm

I choose the unposted 3rd poll option...
3: I'm good either way.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby terrytate » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:38 pm

Buc You wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Yes he only played 10 games that season. But you're ignoring those 10 games plus the 1999-2001 seasons as well. IIRC defense was top 5 all those seasons and we made the playoffs each year. It definitely materialized.

The defense as a whole was great(having 2 first Ballot HOFs and 2-3 more who could/should get in will generally do that), but Booger's part as a 2nd havoc wreaking DT never materialized. Partly because of his ability & partly because of his availability.



Booger was never that good, not here anyway. In hindsight, we needed him only because Culpepper was getting old, not because he was a better pro.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby Doctor » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:16 am

Mike Smith had a top DT duo in Jacksonville, I'm sure he can make a McCoy/Suh combo work just fine. Doubt it happens, but I'd be all aboard that train.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby Watchout4Bucs » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:23 pm

Do we think Suh lived up to the hype? I remember him coming out and wanting him badly. McCoy was a solid pick still, but Suh was a "generational talent." If you told me back then we could have had both, I would have not believed you. But now, I think you are sticking Suh as the Nose Tackle and keeping McCoy right where he is.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby PrimeMinister » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:08 pm

Watchout4Bucs wrote:Do we think Suh lived up to the hype? I remember him coming out and wanting him badly. McCoy was a solid pick still, but Suh was a "generational talent." If you told me back then we could have had both, I would have not believed you. But now, I think you are sticking Suh as the Nose Tackle and keeping McCoy right where he is.


No. His production never amounted to “generational talent” and being an ***hole only works if you’re truly a generational talent ala Sapp.

That being said I want Suh here lined up next to McCoy. This DL needs all the talent and the nasty it can get.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:16 pm

Suh would have to be released to even entertain him. His cap charges over the next few years on his current deal are outrageous. His contract make any trade almost impossible unless it's a salary dump and the Dolphins would take a 7th round pick.

2018 - $26.1m (31yrs old) $22 dead cap if cut
2019 - $28.1m (32yrs old) $13.1m dead cap if cut
2020 - $22.4m (33yrs old) $4m dead cap if cut

Unfortunately the Dolphins restructured Suh a year into his deal for cap relief and are now going to be saddled with a terrible contract.

Suh has made $124m thru his 8 NFL seasons thus far, McCoy has made $102m over that same time span.
Last edited by DreadNaught on Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby PrimeMinister » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:19 pm

DreadNaught wrote:Suh would have to be released to even entertain him. His cap charges over the next few years on his current deal are outrageous. His contract make any trade almost impossible unless it's a salary dump and the Dolphins would take a 7th round pick.

2018 - $26.1m (31yrs old) $22 dead cap if cut
2019 - $28.1m (32yrs old) $13.1m dead cap if cut
2020 - $22.4m (33yrs old) $4m dead cap if cut

Unfortunately the Dolphins restructured Suh a year into his deal for cap relief and are not going to be saddled with a terrible contract.


I assumed this hypothetical exercise was assuming Suh would be cut not traded. I see your point on that dead money though. Good grief!
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:26 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Suh would have to be released to even entertain him. His cap charges over the next few years on his current deal are outrageous. His contract make any trade almost impossible unless it's a salary dump and the Dolphins would take a 7th round pick.

2018 - $26.1m (31yrs old) $22 dead cap if cut
2019 - $28.1m (32yrs old) $13.1m dead cap if cut
2020 - $22.4m (33yrs old) $4m dead cap if cut

Unfortunately the Dolphins restructured Suh a year into his deal for cap relief and are not going to be saddled with a terrible contract.


I assumed this hypothetical exercise was assuming Suh would be cut not traded. I see your point on that dead money though. Good grief!


I haven't read the whole thread since it's not remotely realistic imo. The Dolphins can't cut him with a $22m dead cap charge b/c that would be a very stupid way to clear $4m in cap space. No team will trade for his contract and take on those cap charges either.

I don't mean to disrupt the thread, but the financial aspect doesn't make any sense.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby PrimeMinister » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:28 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:
I assumed this hypothetical exercise was assuming Suh would be cut not traded. I see your point on that dead money though. Good grief!


I haven't read the whole thread since it's not remotely realistic imo. The Dolphins can't cut him with a $22m dead cap charge b/c that would be a very stupid way to clear $4m in cap space. No team will trade for his contract and take on those cap charges either.

I don't mean to disrupt the thread, but the financial aspect doesn't make any sense.


You’re right it doesn’t make any sense at all. I didn’t even look at the financial aspect of it.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby Hatter » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:45 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
I haven't read the whole thread since it's not remotely realistic imo. The Dolphins can't cut him with a $22m dead cap charge b/c that would be a very stupid way to clear $4m in cap space. No team will trade for his contract and take on those cap charges either.

I don't mean to disrupt the thread, but the financial aspect doesn't make any sense.



Dolphins plan to cut Ndamukong Suh after trading for Robert Quinn

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/dolphins_plan_to_cut_ndamukong_suh_after_trading_for_robert_quinn/s1_12740_25846487
Not the most reliable of sources but this news is out there about him getting the boot.

Another link has him saying he will play for Philly for free.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:50 pm

Hatter wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
I haven't read the whole thread since it's not remotely realistic imo. The Dolphins can't cut him with a $22m dead cap charge b/c that would be a very stupid way to clear $4m in cap space. No team will trade for his contract and take on those cap charges either.

I don't mean to disrupt the thread, but the financial aspect doesn't make any sense.



Dolphins plan to cut Ndamukong Suh after trading for Robert Quinn

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/dolphins_plan_to_cut_ndamukong_suh_after_trading_for_robert_quinn/s1_12740_25846487
Not the most reliable of sources but this news is out there about him getting the boot.

Another link has him saying he will play for Philly for free.


He'd have to. Philly has negative cap space.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:53 pm

Hatter wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
I haven't read the whole thread since it's not remotely realistic imo. The Dolphins can't cut him with a $22m dead cap charge b/c that would be a very stupid way to clear $4m in cap space. No team will trade for his contract and take on those cap charges either.

I don't mean to disrupt the thread, but the financial aspect doesn't make any sense.



Dolphins plan to cut Ndamukong Suh after trading for Robert Quinn

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/dolphins_plan_to_cut_ndamukong_suh_after_trading_for_robert_quinn/s1_12740_25846487
Not the most reliable of sources but this news is out there about him getting the boot.

Another link has him saying he will play for Philly for free.


Fair enough. Seems very odd to take on a $22m dead cap hit for releasing Suh when he only costs $4m more to keep on the roster one more season. I'd think there are better ways to save $4m in cap space than to release a pro bowl DT who commands a double team every play.

I can understand wanting to move on from Suh, but this year aint the year to to it. No savings/relief to the cap and you lose arguably your best defensive player.
Last edited by DreadNaught on Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:56 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Hatter wrote:

Dolphins plan to cut Ndamukong Suh after trading for Robert Quinn

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/dolphins_plan_to_cut_ndamukong_suh_after_trading_for_robert_quinn/s1_12740_25846487
Not the most reliable of sources but this news is out there about him getting the boot.

Another link has him saying he will play for Philly for free.


Fair enough. Seems very odd to take on a $22m dead cap hit for releasing Suh when he only costs $4m more to keep on the roster one more season. I'd think there are better ways to save $4m in cap space than to release a pro bowl DT.


They have to make a move on him before next week because with Quinn's contract on the books they are in the negative.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby Naismith » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:59 pm

DreadNaught wrote:Seems very odd to take on a $22m dead cap hit for releasing Suh when he only costs $4m more to keep on the roster one more season. I'd think there are better ways to save $4m in cap space than to release a pro bowl DT who commands a double team every play.


It certainly shows their opinion of Suh, whether it's about his on-field play or something off-field (or, most likely, both).
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby Doctor » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:44 am

Naismith wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Seems very odd to take on a $22m dead cap hit for releasing Suh when he only costs $4m more to keep on the roster one more season. I'd think there are better ways to save $4m in cap space than to release a pro bowl DT who commands a double team every play.


It certainly shows their opinion of Suh, whether it's about his on-field play or something off-field (or, most likely, both).

Yeah, while I"m not usually big into making other organizations problems and flags into a player flag- that's a HELLL of a hit to just dump him. Like that's a big red flag you have to look at. Ask around. Do something.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:27 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Fair enough. Seems very odd to take on a $22m dead cap hit for releasing Suh when he only costs $4m more to keep on the roster one more season. I'd think there are better ways to save $4m in cap space than to release a pro bowl DT.


They have to make a move on him before next week because with Quinn's contract on the books they are in the negative.


Didn’t know that, but damn that’s still a TON of dead money for $4M.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby Naismith » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:13 pm

The Dolphins would effectively be saying they don't think Suh is worth a one-year, $4M contract. That has to be somewhat concerning for his next team.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby Caradoc » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:10 pm

Doctor wrote:
Naismith wrote:
It certainly shows their opinion of Suh, whether it's about his on-field play or something off-field (or, most likely, both).

Yeah, while I"m not usually big into making other organizations problems and flags into a player flag- that's a HELLL of a hit to just dump him. Like that's a big red flag you have to look at. Ask around. Do something.


Same team that ran Grimes off and couldn't find a use for Ajayi.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby mdb1958 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:09 am

I really believe a player saying "I want out" can factor in sometimes.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby Buc2 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:30 am

mdb1958 wrote:I really believe a player saying "I want out" can factor in sometimes.

But that's not as fun as the drama created by fans and sports analysts.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby Rocker » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:10 am

Caradoc wrote:
Doctor wrote:Yeah, while I"m not usually big into making other organizations problems and flags into a player flag- that's a HELLL of a hit to just dump him. Like that's a big red flag you have to look at. Ask around. Do something.


Same team that ran Grimes off and couldn't find a use for Ajayi.



Solid.

Buc2 wrote:But that's not as fun as the drama created by fans and sports analysts.


Also solid, and one of the reasons this part of the offseason frustrates me so.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby MJW » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:11 pm

Suh is the 2nd or 3rd highest paid defensive player in the history of football. If I was the Dolphins, and it didn't make sense for me to move on from him, I'd tell him to shove his, "I want out" stuff.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:03 am

DreadNaught wrote:I haven't read the whole thread since it's not remotely realistic imo. The Dolphins can't cut him with a $22m dead cap charge b/c that would be a very stupid way to clear $4m in cap space. No team will trade for his contract and take on those cap charges either.

I don't mean to disrupt the thread, but the financial aspect doesn't make any sense.


Apparently I was wrong and this is happening, or at least likely to occur. Not sure I've ever seen a team willingly take on such a sigifcant dead cap charge to rid themselves of a player. Suh may be an ***hole, but he's not in any trouble for off field behavior. Plus he was the same ***hole when they signed him in FA so it's not like the Dolphins didn't know what they were buying.

Dolphins are really biting a financial bullet here by releasing Suh and taking a $22m dead cap hit in the process. I guess they are really trying change the culture and getting rid of their best players (Landry, Suh) is route they're taking.

Bold strategy, let's see if it works out for them...
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:04 am

DreadNaught wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:I haven't read the whole thread since it's not remotely realistic imo. The Dolphins can't cut him with a $22m dead cap charge b/c that would be a very stupid way to clear $4m in cap space. No team will trade for his contract and take on those cap charges either.

I don't mean to disrupt the thread, but the financial aspect doesn't make any sense.


Apparently I was wrong and this is happening, or at least likely to occur.

Dolphins are really biting a financial bullet here by releasing Suh and taking a $22m dead cap hit in the process. I guess they are really trying change the culture and getting rid of their best players (Landry, Suh) is route they're taking.

Bold strategy, let's see if it works out for them...

This is why I wouldn't want Suh. If the Dolphins are willing to pay that much just to get him out of there...
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby BucaRican » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:07 am

DreadNaught wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:I haven't read the whole thread since it's not remotely realistic imo. The Dolphins can't cut him with a $22m dead cap charge b/c that would be a very stupid way to clear $4m in cap space. No team will trade for his contract and take on those cap charges either.

I don't mean to disrupt the thread, but the financial aspect doesn't make any sense.


Apparently I was wrong and this is happening, or at least likely to occur. Not sure I've ever seen a team willingly take on such a sigifcant dead cap charge to rid themselves of a player. Suh may be an ***hole, but he's not in any trouble for off field behavior. Plus he was the same ***hole when they signed him in FA so it's not like the Dolphins didn't know what they were buying.

Dolphins are really biting a financial bullet here by releasing Suh and taking a $22m dead cap hit in the process. I guess they are really trying change the culture and getting rid of their best players (Landry, Suh) is route they're taking.

Bold strategy, let's see if it works out for them...


Ohh it's definitely happening :

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22733099/miami-dolphins-release-ndamukong-suh

I am on board. This makes all the sense in the world. We need the rush.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby PrimeMinister » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:09 am

real bucs fan wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Apparently I was wrong and this is happening, or at least likely to occur.

Dolphins are really biting a financial bullet here by releasing Suh and taking a $22m dead cap hit in the process. I guess they are really trying change the culture and getting rid of their best players (Landry, Suh) is route they're taking.

Bold strategy, let's see if it works out for them...

This is why I wouldn't want Suh. If the Dolphins are willing to pay that much just to get him out of there...


I hope OBP looks into why the Dolphins are dumping Suh, but in the end OBP has to trust their own evaluations not the decision Miami is making. I agree that dumping a player and taking a $22M dead cap hit as alarming, but if we look into it and decide Suh is worth signing then it’s the right move to make despite what the Dolphins think.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby BucaRican » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:11 am

PrimeMinister wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:This is why I wouldn't want Suh. If the Dolphins are willing to pay that much just to get him out of there...


I hope OBP looks into why the Dolphins are dumping Suh, but in the end OBP has to trust their own evaluations not the decision Miami is making. I agree that dumping a player and taking a $22M dead cap hit as alarming, but if we look into it and decide Suh is worth signing then it’s the right move to make despite what the Dolphins think.


If Suh is designated as a post-June 1 cut, the team would save $17 million against the 2018 salary cap. Releasing Suh now would save the Dolphins just $3.9 million against the cap.


Not sure why you guys thought it would be 22 mil. Seems that if they do it and make it post June 1st, its just a 3.9mil hit.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby PrimeMinister » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:21 am

BucaRican wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:
I hope OBP looks into why the Dolphins are dumping Suh, but in the end OBP has to trust their own evaluations not the decision Miami is making. I agree that dumping a player and taking a $22M dead cap hit as alarming, but if we look into it and decide Suh is worth signing then it’s the right move to make despite what the Dolphins think.


If Suh is designated as a post-June 1 cut, the team would save $17 million against the 2018 salary cap. Releasing Suh now would save the Dolphins just $3.9 million against the cap.


Not sure why you guys thought it would be 22 mil. Seems that if they do it and make it post June 1st, its just a 3.9mil hit.


Someone here said it was $22M dead cap hit and I never looked into it. If it’s $3.9M that makes far more sense.
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Re: To Suh or not to Suh

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:24 am

Dead cap means money owed in relation to the players salary cap number. There's a dead cap number regardless but because his salary cap number is higher than his dead cap there's a net savings. If it were the other way around the Dolphins would lose that cap space.
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