Jay Hayes: FIRED

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Re: Jay Hayes: FIRED

Postby terrytate » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:35 pm

Would Hayes have had that much control over the DL stunts? I assumed that would be a decision made by the person calling the defense on gameday, Mike Smith himself.
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Re: Jay Hayes: FIRED

Postby MJW » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:03 am

terrytate wrote:Would Hayes have had that much control over the DL stunts? I assumed that would be a decision made by the person calling the defense on gameday, Mike Smith himself.


I've always assumed that "tactics" fell to the DC, while technique fell to the positional coaches. Like...Mike Smith would be the one to call for a stunt on Sunday, and presumably Jay Hayes would have been the one responsible for making sure they knew how to execute it.

I ****ing hate stunts, btw. I know why we use them - because we don't have the talent to simply win at the POA head on. But they don't work, and they've held GMC back since forever.
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Re: Jay Hayes: FIRED

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:11 am

Stunts do work. They work very well when executed. There are different types of stunts and they aren't always stunts even though they may look like it.
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Re: Jay Hayes: FIRED

Postby Caradoc » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:48 am

MJW wrote:But they don't work, and they've held GMC back since forever.


That is just flat wrong.


Stunts work, that's why they're used by every single team in the league and in college. And they haven't "held GMC back since forever". Gerald doesn't like them, he's bitched about them forever. But the only time we really made a concerted effort to stop using them was when he whined about them under Schiano for long enough. And when we let him go straight up more often it made no difference.
Last edited by Caradoc on Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:10 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Jay Hayes: FIRED

Postby PrimeMinister » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:08 am

Caradoc wrote:
MJW wrote:


That is just flat wrong.

Stunts work, that's why they're used by every single team in the league and in college. And they haven't "held GMC back since forever". Gerald doesn't like them, he's bitched about them forever. But the only time we really made a concerted effort to stop using them was when he whined about them under Schiano for long enough. And when we let him go straight up more often it made no difference.


We ran fewer stunts last year during that winning streak. The players (not just Gerald) have stated that they play better straight up and last year it proved correct. We still need better talent, but the scheme was a problem according to players.
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Re: Jay Hayes: FIRED

Postby terrytate » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:34 am

Caradoc wrote:
MJW wrote:


That is just flat wrong.

Stunts work, that's why they're used by every single team in the league and in college. And they haven't "held GMC back since forever". Gerald doesn't like them, he's bitched about them forever. But the only time we really made a concerted effort to stop using them was when he whined about them under Schiano for long enough. And when we let him go straight up more often it made no difference.



Learn how to quote.

Stunts do have a place in the playbook but I disagree about McCoy. Even if he had said nothing, I'd have been certain he'd hate stunting for the same reasons I suspect Warren Sapp did. His best attribute is his quick penetration and that is completely nullified on a stunt. The flipside is that I've seen guards who are terrified of McCoy stay with him too long, letting the end slide right by and apply pressure. Our CB's didn't often hold up long enough for slower developing pass rushes to get home though.

This is purely anecdotal of course, but our best pass rush HAS been when McCoy plays as a 3 and shoots his gap. There is no one else on the team that can apply immediate pressure like McCoy can and as I said, with our coverage we need pressure as fast as we can get it.
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Re: Jay Hayes: FIRED

Postby mdb1958 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:09 am

Terry, my problem with McCoy is he has chosen to make his best attribute his only attribute.
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Re: Jay Hayes: FIRED

Postby Caradoc » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:33 am

PrimeMinister wrote:
Caradoc wrote:
That is just flat wrong.

Stunts work, that's why they're used by every single team in the league and in college. And they haven't "held GMC back since forever". Gerald doesn't like them, he's bitched about them forever. But the only time we really made a concerted effort to stop using them was when he whined about them under Schiano for long enough. And when we let him go straight up more often it made no difference.


We ran fewer stunts last year during that winning streak. The players (not just Gerald) have stated that they play better straight up and last year it proved correct. We still need better talent, but the scheme was a problem according to players.


I'd like to know where that comes from, as I saw no evidence of that.
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