Foles next year

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Foles next year

Postby Crocaneers » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:15 am

Let's start it now.

No way he's in Philly

GO
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Re: Foles next year

Postby sanka » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:48 am

He plays in a good system...he has failed at Rams.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby MJW » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:56 am

sanka wrote:He plays in a good system...he has failed at Rams.


I agree with Sanka for the most part. He's shown flashes throughout his career, but he's fool's gold. He's as good as his play-caller and his surrounding talent.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Caradoc » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:39 am

MJW wrote:
sanka wrote:He plays in a good system...he has failed at Rams.


I agree with Sanka for the most part. He's shown flashes throughout his career, but he's fool's gold. He's as good as his play-caller and his surrounding talent.


Sounds like what people say about Kirk Cousins.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby MJW » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:50 am

Caradoc wrote:
MJW wrote:
I agree with Sanka for the most part. He's shown flashes throughout his career, but he's fool's gold. He's as good as his play-caller and his surrounding talent.


Sounds like what people say about Kirk Cousins.


When Cousins sucks as hard as Foles did in 2014 and 2015, those people might have a point.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Phantom Phenom » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:02 am

Foles value is pretty high right now. The Eagles will get 2nd round pick for him

Foles to Arizona...
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Re: Foles next year

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:13 am

Eagles should trade him for a 2nd round pick. If no team wants to offer that than the Eagles have a SB MVP as a back-up QB in 2018.

Not a bad situation either way.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Doctor » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:30 am

How do you trade the SB MVP. That's tough. But really, he failed on the Rams....
Remember Warner was a failed journeyman between his two SBs.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Teitan » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:36 am

Doctor wrote:How do you trade the SB MVP. That's tough. But really, he failed on the Rams....
Remember Warner was a failed journeyman between his two SBs.


Because you have your franchise QB.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby MJW » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:39 am

Doctor wrote:How do you trade the SB MVP. That's tough. But really, he failed on the Rams....
Remember Warner was a failed journeyman between his two SBs.


Foles looked great when he was running an offense the NFL had never seen before and didn't know how to defend, with Chip Kelly that first year.
He's looked great for all of two months in Philly, behind a great line, with top tier skill position talent, and a great playcaller.

When he hasn't had those luxuries, like after the NFL caught up to Kelly's scheme, or when he was in St. Louis, he's looked like a guy. He's been under 56.5% completed two of the last three years. Three different teams have given up on him or not bothered to re-sign him.

Somebody may be imprisoned by the moment (to paraphrase our friend Bootz) and give a high pick for him. It happens. But unless they're going to give him great protection, three excellent receivers, a great tight end, three great backs, and a great OC...it would be a mistake. Maybe not a Brock Osweiler mistake. But probably a Mike Glennon mistake.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Crocaneers » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:49 am

Good discussion, and I think the points are well made. I don't his contract situation, and really hopeful that he had escalators for playoffs, Super Bowl, and MVP. He seems like a rock of a guy.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Jason Bourne » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:55 am

dont know where he ends up, but he is gonna be a wealthy man !
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:04 am

MJW wrote:
Doctor wrote:How do you trade the SB MVP. That's tough. But really, he failed on the Rams....
Remember Warner was a failed journeyman between his two SBs.


Foles looked great when he was running an offense the NFL had never seen before and didn't know how to defend, with Chip Kelly that first year.
He's looked great for all of two months in Philly, behind a great line, with top tier skill position talent, and a great playcaller.

When he hasn't had those luxuries, like after the NFL caught up to Kelly's scheme, or when he was in St. Louis, he's looked like a guy. He's been under 56.5% completed two of the last three years. Three different teams have given up on him or not bothered to re-sign him.

Somebody may be imprisoned by the moment (to paraphrase our friend Bootz) and give a high pick for him. It happens. But unless they're going to give him great protection, three excellent receivers, a great tight end, three great backs, and a great OC...it would be a mistake. Maybe not a Brock Osweiler mistake. But probably a Mike Glennon mistake.


Interestingly(or not) you made similar points about Cousins not having a great receiving core this year.

I wouldn't call the Eagles skills position all that great. You're talking about a top talent in Zach Ertz, and a bunch of castoffs from other teams. A point you like making all too often, Torrey Smith is on his 3rd team in 4 years and has been meh. Alshon Jeffrey is uber inconsistent. Nelson Algolor was an absolute bust before this year and was still mediocre. At RB you have Legarrette Blount, 31 and also on his 3rd team in 4 years and Jay Ajay, cast out of Miami and didn't play all that well when he got to Philly. There's your All World skills position. No surprise you embellish to try and make a point but hey, when you're desperate..
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Re: Foles next year

Postby MJW » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:11 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
Foles looked great when he was running an offense the NFL had never seen before and didn't know how to defend, with Chip Kelly that first year.
He's looked great for all of two months in Philly, behind a great line, with top tier skill position talent, and a great playcaller.

When he hasn't had those luxuries, like after the NFL caught up to Kelly's scheme, or when he was in St. Louis, he's looked like a guy. He's been under 56.5% completed two of the last three years. Three different teams have given up on him or not bothered to re-sign him.

Somebody may be imprisoned by the moment (to paraphrase our friend Bootz) and give a high pick for him. It happens. But unless they're going to give him great protection, three excellent receivers, a great tight end, three great backs, and a great OC...it would be a mistake. Maybe not a Brock Osweiler mistake. But probably a Mike Glennon mistake.


Interestingly(or not) you made similar points about Cousins not having a great receiving core this year.

I wouldn't call the Eagles skills position all that great. You're talking about a top talent in Zach Ertz, and a bunch of castoffs from other teams. A point you like making all too often, Torrey Smith is on his 3rd team in 4 years and has been meh. Alshon Jeffrey is uber inconsistent. Nelson Algolor was an absolute bust before this year and was still mediocre. At RB you have Legarrette Blount, 31 and also on his 3rd team in 4 years and Jay Ajay, cast out of Miami and didn't play all that well when he got to Philly. There's your All World skills position. No surprise you embellish to try and make a point but hey, when you're desperate..


Cousins, with arguably the worst skill position help in the league, completed 64.3% of his passes and accounted for 4,300 yards and 31 TDs. And "desperate" is trying to make a case the Eagles don't have excellent skill position talent. The stats, the team's production, and the game we literally just watched all tell us otherwise. Let me know when you escape the moment you're trapped in.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:25 am

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Interestingly(or not) you made similar points about Cousins not having a great receiving core this year.

I wouldn't call the Eagles skills position all that great. You're talking about a top talent in Zach Ertz, and a bunch of castoffs from other teams. A point you like making all too often, Torrey Smith is on his 3rd team in 4 years and has been meh. Alshon Jeffrey is uber inconsistent. Nelson Algolor was an absolute bust before this year and was still mediocre. At RB you have Legarrette Blount, 31 and also on his 3rd team in 4 years and Jay Ajay, cast out of Miami and didn't play all that well when he got to Philly. There's your All World skills position. No surprise you embellish to try and make a point but hey, when you're desperate..


Cousins, with arguably the worst skill position help in the league, completed 64.3% of his passes and accounted for 4,300 yards and 31 TDs. And "desperate" is trying to make a case the Eagles don't have excellent skill position talent. The stats, the team's production, and the game we literally just watched all tell us otherwise. Let me know when you escape the moment you're trapped in.


Desperate yet again. Washington was no where near the worst skills position help. Jets, Bears, 49ers, Browns all much worse than the Redskins. The Eagles meanwhile had no receiver or rusher reach 900 yards. Not 1. That's how "great" they were. You should let me know when you're ready to stop with the over exaggerations.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Cheb » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:29 am

In three playoff games this year, he threw for nearly 1000 yards, 6 touchdowns, and one interception. His passer rating of 115.7 in the postseason would have led the NFL this year had he been the full-time starter, and it would have been the fifth best passer rating of all time. If the Eagles want to trade him, they likely can for an exorbitant sum.

He's under contract for next year in Philly. I wouldn't be shocked if they kept him unless they get a king's ransom in trade value. Good backup quarterbacks are rare.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Super K » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:32 am

What Philly has/had are talented players (as they all are at this level, no?) led by a good coach who has an even better scheme/offensive system...

This shouldn't be a pissing match about Foles, but rather a circle jerk regarding Pederson...
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Cheb » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:32 am

Super K wrote:What Philly has/had are talented players (as they all are at this level, no?) led by a good coach who has an even better scheme/offensive system...

This shouldn't be a pissing match about Foles, but rather a circle jerk regarding Pederson...


I'd rather not join a circle jerk, but your points are valid. Pederson coached a magnificent game.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Super K » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:38 am

Cheb wrote:
Super K wrote:What Philly has/had are talented players (as they all are at this level, no?) led by a good coach who has an even better scheme/offensive system...

This shouldn't be a pissing match about Foles, but rather a circle jerk regarding Pederson...


I'd rather not join a circle jerk, but your points are valid. Pederson coached a magnificent game.



Haha, I was just trying to get their attention by being crass...

He's coached a helluva SEASON imo...his use of RPOs, play design, aggressiveness were all awesome, all year long...

I'm not sure how sustaining they can be at this level though...fun thing is, we'll find out one way or another!
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Doctor » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:48 am

MJW wrote:
Doctor wrote:How do you trade the SB MVP. That's tough. But really, he failed on the Rams....
Remember Warner was a failed journeyman between his two SBs.


Foles looked great when he was running an offense the NFL had never seen before and didn't know how to defend, with Chip Kelly that first year.
He's looked great for all of two months in Philly, behind a great line, with top tier skill position talent, and a great playcaller.

When he hasn't had those luxuries, like after the NFL caught up to Kelly's scheme, or when he was in St. Louis, he's looked like a guy. He's been under 56.5% completed two of the last three years. Three different teams have given up on him or not bothered to re-sign him.

Somebody may be imprisoned by the moment (to paraphrase our friend Bootz) and give a high pick for him. It happens. But unless they're going to give him great protection, three excellent receivers, a great tight end, three great backs, and a great OC...it would be a mistake. Maybe not a Brock Osweiler mistake. But probably a Mike Glennon mistake.

You mean like Arizona?
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Deja Entendu » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:12 am

Doctor wrote:
MJW wrote:
Foles looked great when he was running an offense the NFL had never seen before and didn't know how to defend, with Chip Kelly that first year.
He's looked great for all of two months in Philly, behind a great line, with top tier skill position talent, and a great playcaller.

When he hasn't had those luxuries, like after the NFL caught up to Kelly's scheme, or when he was in St. Louis, he's looked like a guy. He's been under 56.5% completed two of the last three years. Three different teams have given up on him or not bothered to re-sign him.

Somebody may be imprisoned by the moment (to paraphrase our friend Bootz) and give a high pick for him. It happens. But unless they're going to give him great protection, three excellent receivers, a great tight end, three great backs, and a great OC...it would be a mistake. Maybe not a Brock Osweiler mistake. But probably a Mike Glennon mistake.

You mean like Arizona?


Or Jacksonville?

I'd hardly call him "fool's gold" at this point. I was doubtful when he looked really good under Reid (before he looked good under Kelly), and I wasn't that surprised he didn't do well in St. Louis. Now with a much larger sample size, I think he's proven he can absolutely thrive and be an upper echelon QB in the league. Sure he benefits from being in a good situation... which QBs don't/haven't?

He flashed real potential under Reid in Philly as essentially a rookie, then under Kelly in a brand new system.

He fizzled some when Kelly started depleting the offense and tape was out on the system.

He sucked on a terrible, and awfully coached, Rams team. Almost quit football, but Reid (who drafted him) talked him into signing with him. Immediately signed with Philly after leaving KC (collusion between Reid and Pederson), and the rest is history.

I'd say a guy who has flashed his potential under three different head coaches, and looked unworldly in the postseason against one of the best defenses in football and the greatest team in the history of the sport is more than "fool's gold." It's not like he Dilfer'd, or even Flacco'd, his way to a championship. He was a gunslinger more than a game manager. The playcalling was great, but the confidence was in him to execute those plays.

I was once a detractor of his, but I believe he's done enough to show he's certainly better than most of the other quarterbacks who have received, and will receive, their payday -- including Kirk Cousins. I don't feel that's reactionary at all.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby SIBucsFan » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:34 am

I predict Nick Foles will be traded to the Colts for a second round pick. Still not confident Andrew Luck will be back anytime soon.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Doctor » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:34 am

We're not talking Derek Anderson or Case Keenum. We're talking about the guy who won SB MVP against BB. You know that phrase "you can't win a SB with ___", it obviously does not apply to Foles. If Foles is fools gold what about a guy like Flacco?

And you can't say the Eagles won on defense, there was no defense that whole game.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Doctor » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:43 am

SIBucsFan wrote:I predict Nick Foles will be traded to the Colts for a second round pick. Still not confident Andrew Luck will be back anytime soon.



Wow, people saying Foles for a 2nd are crazy disrespectful. Carson Palmer, Jay Cutler, Sam Bradford, Trent Green, Drew Bledsoe, Brad Johnson, heck ROB JOHNSON all drew a first round pick in trades.
Jay Feely, Jimmy G, Matt Schaub (a more complicated trade), Kevin Kolb, Matt Cassell- these guys drew a second round pick.

Y'all really saying the Superbowl MVP belong more in the second group than the first? GTFOH.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Super K » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:46 am

Doctor wrote:
SIBucsFan wrote:I predict Nick Foles will be traded to the Colts for a second round pick. Still not confident Andrew Luck will be back anytime soon.



Wow, people saying Foles for a 2nd are crazy disrespectful. Carson Palmer, Jay Cutler, Sam Bradford, Trent Green, Drew Bledsoe, Brad Johnson, heck ROB JOHNSON all drew a first round pick in trades.
Jay Feely, Jimmy G, Matt Schaub (a more complicated trade), Kevin Kolb, Matt Cassell- these guys drew a second round pick.

Y'all really saying the Superbowl MVP belong more in the second group than the first? GTFOH.


Who freakin cares...

And don't over blow the SB MVP thing..the "good" Dexter Jackson won it for us, got tons of cash to sign somewhere else to be a savior in the defensive backfield and was never heard of again..
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Super K » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:50 am

Honestly Doc, if he's that good and/or worth that much the Iggles should just keep him and let Wentz learn from the bench/sideline OR trade Wentz...

Sound stupid?..yeah, it sure does..you trade Foles for, hopefully, a 2nd rounder or keep him as your backup...

If someone gives up a first for him have mercy on their soul..
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:54 am

Honestly, this makes me question how good Wentz really is too. No offense to the guy, but I was hearing all year about how he's a great MVP caliber QB but he goes down and the team doesn't miss a beat and they win their first Super Bowl in franchise history with a backup QB. Not trying to diminish Wentz, but these are the questions he's going to be faced with in 2018.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby SIBucsFan » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:55 am

Doctor wrote:
SIBucsFan wrote:I predict Nick Foles will be traded to the Colts for a second round pick. Still not confident Andrew Luck will be back anytime soon.



Wow, people saying Foles for a 2nd are crazy disrespectful. Carson Palmer, Jay Cutler, Sam Bradford, Trent Green, Drew Bledsoe, Brad Johnson, heck ROB JOHNSON all drew a first round pick in trades.
Jay Feely, Jimmy G, Matt Schaub (a more complicated trade), Kevin Kolb, Matt Cassell- these guys drew a second round pick.

Y'all really saying the Superbowl MVP belong more in the second group than the first? GTFOH.



You take what you can get for a backup QB when a first or second round offer comes along, especially when everyone knows you already have your QBOTF.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Super K » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:04 pm

SIBucsFan wrote:
Doctor wrote:

Wow, people saying Foles for a 2nd are crazy disrespectful. Carson Palmer, Jay Cutler, Sam Bradford, Trent Green, Drew Bledsoe, Brad Johnson, heck ROB JOHNSON all drew a first round pick in trades.
Jay Feely, Jimmy G, Matt Schaub (a more complicated trade), Kevin Kolb, Matt Cassell- these guys drew a second round pick.

Y'all really saying the Superbowl MVP belong more in the second group than the first? GTFOH.



You take what you can get for a backup QB when a first or second round offer comes along, especially when everyone knows you already have your QBOTF.


Exactly...

Or just keep Foles if he's so damn good...you don't HAVE to trade him and your QBOTF is still on his rookie deal..
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Re: Foles next year

Postby MJW » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:08 pm

Deja Entendu wrote:
Doctor wrote:You mean like Arizona?


Or Jacksonville?

I'd hardly call him "fool's gold" at this point. I was doubtful when he looked really good under Reid (before he looked good under Kelly), and I wasn't that surprised he didn't do well in St. Louis. Now with a much larger sample size, I think he's proven he can absolutely thrive and be an upper echelon QB in the league. Sure he benefits from being in a good situation... which QBs don't/haven't?

He flashed real potential under Reid in Philly as essentially a rookie, then under Kelly in a brand new system.

He fizzled some when Kelly started depleting the offense and tape was out on the system.

He sucked on a terrible, and awfully coached, Rams team. Almost quit football, but Reid (who drafted him) talked him into signing with him. Immediately signed with Philly after leaving KC (collusion between Reid and Pederson), and the rest is history.

I'd say a guy who has flashed his potential under three different head coaches, and looked unworldly in the postseason against one of the best defenses in football and the greatest team in the history of the sport is more than "fool's gold." It's not like he Dilfer'd, or even Flacco'd, his way to a championship. He was a gunslinger more than a game manager. The playcalling was great, but the confidence was in him to execute those plays.

I was once a detractor of his, but I believe he's done enough to show he's certainly better than most of the other quarterbacks who have received, and will receive, their payday -- including Kirk Cousins. I don't feel that's reactionary at all.


I'm not saying he can't play, or that he's Rob Johnson.

I am saying that if you're Cleveland, or the Jets, and you think you're going to send the Eagles a high pick and give Foles $20 million APY, and you're going to plug him in and he's going to do for you what he did over two months in Philly, you're going to get burned, badly. It's going to be one of those classic, "He was pretty good in a great situation on a small sample size, so we're shocked that he can't carry our terrible franchise!" deals, like we see every other year in the NFL.

He's not that guy. That's all. Not many guys are.
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