Foles next year

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Re: Foles next year

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:36 pm

Miller4Prez64 wrote:Honestly, this makes me question how good Wentz really is too. No offense to the guy, but I was hearing all year about how he's a great MVP caliber QB but he goes down and the team doesn't miss a beat and they win their first Super Bowl in franchise history with a backup QB. Not trying to diminish Wentz, but these are the questions he's going to be faced with in 2018.


I don't buy into the Wentz hype. I don't think the Eagles win that game yesterday with him at QB. He's wildly inconsistent and doesn't always throw catchable passes. He also doesn't see the field very well. It's obvious in the tape. Pretty stats but he's not as great as advertised.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Doctor » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:44 pm

There are plenty of teams that could use a Foles for their Superbowl window. Vikings, Jacksonville, Broncos, Cardinals, maybe even the Steelers.
Also, don't think that it needs to be a first this year. They can easily trade him for a 2019 first rounder after the draft.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:46 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Miller4Prez64 wrote:Honestly, this makes me question how good Wentz really is too. No offense to the guy, but I was hearing all year about how he's a great MVP caliber QB but he goes down and the team doesn't miss a beat and they win their first Super Bowl in franchise history with a backup QB. Not trying to diminish Wentz, but these are the questions he's going to be faced with in 2018.


I don't buy into the Wentz hype. I don't think the Eagles win that game yesterday with him at QB. He's wildly inconsistent and doesn't always throw catchable passes. He also doesn't see the field very well. It's obvious in the tape. Pretty stats but he's not as great as advertised.


I feel like he's under a lot of pressure to win now as the starter. It's kind of a bad look if you're supposed to be the franchise QB but the only time the team won a ring was with a backup. It could even effect how much money he gets on his 2nd contract. I think he's a good QB and all, but Pederson seems to have that same magical touch with QBs that his mentor had. Only difference is, he won some big games and has a Lombardi.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Noles1724 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:52 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Miller4Prez64 wrote:Honestly, this makes me question how good Wentz really is too. No offense to the guy, but I was hearing all year about how he's a great MVP caliber QB but he goes down and the team doesn't miss a beat and they win their first Super Bowl in franchise history with a backup QB. Not trying to diminish Wentz, but these are the questions he's going to be faced with in 2018.


I don't buy into the Wentz hype. I don't think the Eagles win that game yesterday with him at QB. He's wildly inconsistent and doesn't always throw catchable passes. He also doesn't see the field very well. It's obvious in the tape. Pretty stats but he's not as great as advertised.


I'm kind of in the same boat here. while he did have some impressive games, I never felt like he was the field general.. and that's what I think is required when receiving the praise that he was getting.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby MJW » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:00 pm

If you substitute in Joe Flacco for Nick Foles and pretend it's five years ago, this thing pretty much reads the same.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby BucaRican » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:10 pm

sanka wrote:He plays in a good system...he has failed at Rams.


Doctor wrote:How do you trade the SB MVP. That's tough. But really, he failed on the Rams....
Remember Warner was a failed journeyman between his two SBs.


RAMS=Jeff Fisher. That is all that needs to be said about that. You can only measure a guy when he has a good coaching in place. We saw how quick the Rams went from worse to first, after Fisher was gone.

MJW wrote:
Doctor wrote:How do you trade the SB MVP. That's tough. But really, he failed on the Rams....
Remember Warner was a failed journeyman between his two SBs.


Foles looked great when he was running an offense the NFL had never seen before and didn't know how to defend, with Chip Kelly that first year.
He's looked great for all of two months in Philly, behind a great line, with top tier skill position talent, and a great playcaller.

When he hasn't had those luxuries, like after the NFL caught up to Kelly's scheme, or when he was in St. Louis, he's looked like a guy. He's been under 56.5% completed two of the last three years. Three different teams have given up on him or not bothered to re-sign him.

Somebody may be imprisoned by the moment (to paraphrase our friend Bootz) and give a high pick for him. It happens. But unless they're going to give him great protection, three excellent receivers, a great tight end, three great backs, and a great OC...it would be a mistake. Maybe not a Brock Osweiler mistake. But probably a Mike Glennon mistake.


Well since you want to paraphrase Bootz, just remember he is the same guy that believes backup QBs do not matter.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:20 pm

MJW wrote:If you substitute in Joe Flacco for Nick Foles and pretend it's five years ago, this thing pretty much reads the same.


If anyone pays Foles a fraction of what Flacco got, they are insane. I think Flacco is a good QB who played the best ball of his life when the Ravens beat San Fran a few years back but he has crippled that franchise since with his contract, they haven't been able to reload because of it. Results show for it too, three years in a row with no playoffs and it's even 4/5 seaons with no playoffs since their Super Bowl. Foles deserves his props, but that Eagles team was loaded with talent and excellent coaching and anyone throwing a ton of money expecting the same in a different scenario is going to get a franchise smashing into the ground.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby MJW » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:23 pm

BucaRican wrote:
sanka wrote:He plays in a good system...he has failed at Rams.


Doctor wrote:How do you trade the SB MVP. That's tough. But really, he failed on the Rams....
Remember Warner was a failed journeyman between his two SBs.


RAMS=Jeff Fisher. That is all that needs to be said about that. You can only measure a guy when he has a good coaching in place. We saw how quick the Rams went from worse to first, after Fisher was gone.

MJW wrote:
Foles looked great when he was running an offense the NFL had never seen before and didn't know how to defend, with Chip Kelly that first year.
He's looked great for all of two months in Philly, behind a great line, with top tier skill position talent, and a great playcaller.

When he hasn't had those luxuries, like after the NFL caught up to Kelly's scheme, or when he was in St. Louis, he's looked like a guy. He's been under 56.5% completed two of the last three years. Three different teams have given up on him or not bothered to re-sign him.

Somebody may be imprisoned by the moment (to paraphrase our friend Bootz) and give a high pick for him. It happens. But unless they're going to give him great protection, three excellent receivers, a great tight end, three great backs, and a great OC...it would be a mistake. Maybe not a Brock Osweiler mistake. But probably a Mike Glennon mistake.


Well since you want to paraphrase Bootz, just remember he is the same guy that believes backup QBs do not matter.


If Foles is what people are saying he is, he should have elevated the Rams, not sunk into the muck with them. That's what I want if I'm going to trade a high pick for a QB and pay him a huge contract. If he's just a guy who plays well in good situations, there's no way I'm doing that.

And I thought about giving Bootz **** for his bizarre "Backup QBs are irrelevant" stance, but honestly, I'm sick of talking to the guy.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby BucaRican » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:41 pm

MJW wrote:
BucaRican wrote:


RAMS=Jeff Fisher. That is all that needs to be said about that. You can only measure a guy when he has a good coaching in place. We saw how quick the Rams went from worse to first, after Fisher was gone.



Well since you want to paraphrase Bootz, just remember he is the same guy that believes backup QBs do not matter.


If Foles is what people are saying he is, he should have elevated the Rams, not sunk into the muck with them. That's what I want if I'm going to trade a high pick for a QB and pay him a huge contract. If he's just a guy who plays well in good situations, there's no way I'm doing that.

And I thought about giving Bootz **** for his bizarre "Backup QBs are irrelevant" stance, but honestly, I'm sick of talking to the guy.


Well I would agree with your Foles assumption, except for the fact that Jared Goff last year looked like he did not belong in the NFL and this year looked like he could be a MVP. Jeff Fisher some way some how in recent time has found a way to ruin QBs.

I am not 100 on Foles a franchise QB, but he has earned the chance to prove it. Guys like Matt Cassel, Brock Osweiler, Ryan Mallet, Mike Glennon, Josh McNown, Jimmy Garoppolo (book is still out), and Matt Flynn all got a shot... None of those guys won a Super Bowl as a starting QB. Foles situation was crazy and the adversity was story book. We will see but Foles value is bananas right now.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Crocaneers » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:44 pm

I'll go ahead and blame Scott Mitchell for all of this ..
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Re: Foles next year

Postby MJW » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:47 pm

BucaRican wrote:
MJW wrote:
If Foles is what people are saying he is, he should have elevated the Rams, not sunk into the muck with them. That's what I want if I'm going to trade a high pick for a QB and pay him a huge contract. If he's just a guy who plays well in good situations, there's no way I'm doing that.

And I thought about giving Bootz **** for his bizarre "Backup QBs are irrelevant" stance, but honestly, I'm sick of talking to the guy.


Well I would agree with your Foles assumption, except for the fact that Jared Goff last year looked like he did not belong in the NFL and this year looked like he could be a MVP. Jeff Fisher some way some how in recent time has found a way to ruin QBs.

I am not 100 on Foles a franchise QB, but he has earned the chance to prove it. Guys like Matt Cassel, Brock Osweiler, Ryan Mallet, Mike Glennon, Josh McNown, Jimmy Garoppolo (book is still out), and Matt Flynn all got a shot... None of those guys won a Super Bowl as a starting QB. Foles situation was crazy and the adversity was story book. We will see but Foles value is bananas right now.


I'm sure some team will give him the chance to prove it. I think that will be a mistake, depending on how much they invest in the experiment. This is the same guy who could have easily prompted spirited a "Foles or Ryan Fitzpatrick?" debate on this board last year when we were shopping for backups. Same dude. He landed in a perfect situation and played out of his mind for a month. Treating it like he's going to go save the Jets or Browns or even the Cardinals is probably a mistake. If he's smart, he goes somewhere where he's a complimentary piece, even if that means less money.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Deja Entendu » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:48 pm

BucaRican wrote:
MJW wrote:
If Foles is what people are saying he is, he should have elevated the Rams, not sunk into the muck with them. That's what I want if I'm going to trade a high pick for a QB and pay him a huge contract. If he's just a guy who plays well in good situations, there's no way I'm doing that.

And I thought about giving Bootz **** for his bizarre "Backup QBs are irrelevant" stance, but honestly, I'm sick of talking to the guy.


Well I would agree with your Foles assumption, except for the fact that Jared Goff last year looked like he did not belong in the NFL and this year looked like he could be a MVP. Jeff Fisher some way some how in recent time has found a way to ruin QBs.

I am not 100 on Foles a franchise QB, but he has earned the chance to prove it. Guys like Matt Cassel, Brock Osweiler, Ryan Mallet, Mike Glennon, Josh McNown, Jimmy Garoppolo (book is still out), and Matt Flynn all got a shot... None of those guys won a Super Bowl as a starting QB. Foles situation was crazy and the adversity was story book. We will see but Foles value is bananas right now.


Agreed. It is also worth noting he wasn't even given a full season in St Louis because Fisher played QB roulette. It was an all around terrible situation, but Foles didn't do himself any favors.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby MJW » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:51 pm

Deja Entendu wrote:
BucaRican wrote:
Well I would agree with your Foles assumption, except for the fact that Jared Goff last year looked like he did not belong in the NFL and this year looked like he could be a MVP. Jeff Fisher some way some how in recent time has found a way to ruin QBs.

I am not 100 on Foles a franchise QB, but he has earned the chance to prove it. Guys like Matt Cassel, Brock Osweiler, Ryan Mallet, Mike Glennon, Josh McNown, Jimmy Garoppolo (book is still out), and Matt Flynn all got a shot... None of those guys won a Super Bowl as a starting QB. Foles situation was crazy and the adversity was story book. We will see but Foles value is bananas right now.


Agreed. It is also worth noting he wasn't even given a full season in St Louis because Fisher played QB roulette. It was an all around terrible situation.


Again, if I'm being asked to stake my job, high draft picks, and a huge contract on a quarterback, I want to know he makes terrible situations better. Otherwise, what's the point?
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Super K » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:59 pm

Crocaneers wrote:I'll go ahead and blame Scott Mitchell for all of this ..


Haha, darn right!
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Caradoc » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:32 pm

MJW wrote:
Deja Entendu wrote:
Agreed. It is also worth noting he wasn't even given a full season in St Louis because Fisher played QB roulette. It was an all around terrible situation.


Again, if I'm being asked to stake my job, high draft picks, and a huge contract on a quarterback, I want to know he makes terrible situations better. Otherwise, what's the point?


This makes sense in fantasyland. In the real world not so much.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Caradoc » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:33 pm

MJW wrote:
If Foles is what people are saying he is, he should have elevated the Rams, not sunk into the muck with them. That's what I want if I'm going to trade a high pick for a QB and pay him a huge contract. If he's just a guy who plays well in good situations, there's no way I'm doing that.

And I thought about giving Bootz **** for his bizarre "Backup QBs are irrelevant" stance, but honestly, I'm sick of talking to the guy.


Funny how many teams struggle to find a guy who can do well in good situations.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Sammich » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:35 pm

The Iggles are in a good situation right now. They've got a very young franchise QB, a good coach, a talented roster, and now a Super Bowl MVP QB to auction off to the highest bidder. If they play their cards right they could set themselves up to be dominant for years to come.

I'm not a believer in Foles, but somebody will be. The Iggles would be dumb to not cash in on that.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby terrytate » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:50 pm

The eagles could have Carson Wants and Nick Files on the team for a fraction of what many team are paying below average QBs. Talk about the 1%
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Re: Foles next year

Postby SIBucsFan » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:17 pm

terrytate wrote:The eagles could have Carson Wants and Nick Files on the team for a fraction of what many team are paying below average QBs. Talk about the 1%



#autocorrectvictim
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Re: Foles next year

Postby kaimaru » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:11 pm

A few things, I forgive Foles for his time on the Rams. Jeff Fisher is not a good coach. However, Case Keenum went 3-2 that season while Foles went 4-7.

Second, it was reported a lot that in the bye week, Eagles changed their offense to Chip Kelly's old offense which is why he struggled before the first playoff game and went crazy in the playoffs.

Third whoever said they will have 2 QBs for cheap next year....uh no. Wentz cap hit is $15,763,291 and Foles $5,400,000 in 2018 which comes to $21,163,291 which puts them middle of the pack.

That said, considering Foles has only flourished in Chip Kelly's offense, he is definitely a system QB.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Super K » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:34 pm

That's $21mill for 2 QBs...

Most teams with franchise guys are paying damn near $21mill for 1!..hell, Bortles just an extension for 19..And wasn't Alex Smith's contract for 20/yr?...

So unless those teams find a backup QB for less than $2mill, they are WAY over that 21 number..

Finally, and most importantly, where did you get your numbers?..because Wentz's cap hit next year is only $7mill...
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Re: Foles next year

Postby terrytate » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:12 pm

SIBucsFan wrote:
terrytate wrote:The eagles could have Carson Wants and Nick Files on the team for a fraction of what many team are paying below average QBs. Talk about the 1%



#autocorrectvictim



Guilty. I am out of town and working off my phone, I got worked by autocorrect.

As to the Wentz contract, no way his cap hit Is 17 mill off his rookie contract. I don't know the exact details, but the numbers Super K used sound much more believable.

As to a decision between Wentz and Foles. It sounds like Pedersons coaching is the main reason for their success this year. So you keep the guy with the most upside and physical talent, that is Wentz. Foles is who he is. Wentz was looking like an MVP candidate at times and he is still a rookie. Imagine how good he could be after a few years under Pederson.

Lastly, if that bit about Pederson going to a Chip Kelly offense for Foles is true, that makes me more impressed by him. Reworking your offense on the fly going into the playoffs and then dominating with your backup is the stuff of legends.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Four Verticals » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:03 pm

I think Foles will stay with Philly until they are absolutely positive Wentz is healthy and ready to go.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby MJW » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:50 am

Caradoc wrote:
MJW wrote:
If Foles is what people are saying he is, he should have elevated the Rams, not sunk into the muck with them. That's what I want if I'm going to trade a high pick for a QB and pay him a huge contract. If he's just a guy who plays well in good situations, there's no way I'm doing that.

And I thought about giving Bootz **** for his bizarre "Backup QBs are irrelevant" stance, but honestly, I'm sick of talking to the guy.


Funny how many teams struggle to find a guy who can do well in good situations.


Can you tell me about these teams without using the name Blake Bortles?

It's just not that hard to find a functional, productive quarterback who can do enough when you give him a great line, a great collection of skill position talent, and a pass rush. That's not to say some teams don't fail anyway, or that EVERY quarterback can do it. But you sure as hell don't have to give up a 2nd rounder and $20 million APY for that. Shoot, Dak Prescott went from a functional SEC quarterback and a 4th round pick to ROY in that situation. Case Keenum went from a guy who'd been cut six times to a Pro Bowler in that situation. With the nature of the NFL now and all the advantages offenses and quarterbacks receive, it's not like it used to be.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Doctor » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:51 am

MJW wrote:
BucaRican wrote:


RAMS=Jeff Fisher. That is all that needs to be said about that. You can only measure a guy when he has a good coaching in place. We saw how quick the Rams went from worse to first, after Fisher was gone.



Well since you want to paraphrase Bootz, just remember he is the same guy that believes backup QBs do not matter.


If Foles is what people are saying he is, he should have elevated the Rams, not sunk into the muck with them. That's what I want if I'm going to trade a high pick for a QB and pay him a huge contract. If he's just a guy who plays well in good situations, there's no way I'm doing that.

And I thought about giving Bootz **** for his bizarre "Backup QBs are irrelevant" stance, but honestly, I'm sick of talking to the guy.

Warner should have elevated the Giants, not sunk with them. But he didn't. He did however take the Cardinals to a superbowl.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Caradoc » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:04 pm

MJW wrote:
Caradoc wrote:
Funny how many teams struggle to find a guy who can do well in good situations.


Can you tell me about these teams without using the name Blake Bortles?



I know you are just bootzing now.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby MJW » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:19 am

Caradoc wrote:
MJW wrote:
Can you tell me about these teams without using the name Blake Bortles?



I know you are just bootzing now.


Maybe a little, but not really.

It's just not that hard to find a QB who can go 20-32 for 200 yards and a TD behind a great line, running game, and defense, and win games.

There are probably ten backups any given year who could manage that. Tim Tebow managed that. Tommy Maddox managed that. Joe Flacco managed that all the way to the Superbowl. So did Rex Grossman.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby MJW » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:10 am

Again...Tim Tebow. 7-4 in 2011. 12 TDs, 6 INTs. Playoff win.

It's just not that hard to find a QB who isn't a total ****up if you give him 132 YPG rushing and a top 5 defense, both of which Nick Foles had.

Somebody is going to get snookered here. They're going to pay this guy like he's going to make their team better, and win them games they shouldn't win, and that's not who he is. He's a rich man's Mike Glennon, or a poor man's Matt Schaub, when it was working for him in Houston.

It's funny. Sanka thought the Jimmy G. contract was a Brock Osweiler type mistake. He was dead wrong. Somebody giving up a high pick and a big contract for Nick Foles? That's much closer to reality. He's much better than Osweiler. But he's not that guy.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Buc2 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:21 am

The only thing I'd pay Foles for would be to backup my franchise QB.
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Re: Foles next year

Postby Zarniwoop » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:35 am

I dont see anyone giving up a lot to trade for Foles.

Likewise if he doesn’t see extended playing time next year, I don’t see a huge contract coming for him when he’s a FA
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