Alex Smith: Traded

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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:02 pm

Also worth noting that Cowherd is the only person reporting that a deal is close. A Broncos exec says that if there's an impending deal it's new to the Broncos. Cowherd throwing **** at the wall hoping it sticks.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:29 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Also worth noting that Cowherd is the only person reporting that a deal is close. A Broncos exec says that if there's an impending deal it's new to the Broncos. Cowherd throwing **** at the wall hoping it sticks.

If it would expose the Broncos to a hit for tampering, that's exactly what they should say.

Reporter: "Is it true you guys are close to a deal with Kirk cousins?"

Broncos exec: "Totally, bruh. But don't tell nobody cuz we'll get in trouble for tampering."
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:23 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Also worth noting that Cowherd is the only person reporting that a deal is close. A Broncos exec says that if there's an impending deal it's new to the Broncos. Cowherd throwing **** at the wall hoping it sticks.

If it would expose the Broncos to a hit for tampering, that's exactly what they should say.

Reporter: "Is it true you guys are close to a deal with Kirk cousins?"

Broncos exec: "Totally, bruh. But don't tell nobody cuz we'll get in trouble for tampering."


Or it could be that Cowherd is throwing **** at the wall trying to make it stick. Other media outlets and reporters would've been all over this immediately. They wouldn't do the Broncos any favors in covering up their tampering.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:30 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:If it would expose the Broncos to a hit for tampering, that's exactly what they should say.

Reporter: "Is it true you guys are close to a deal with Kirk cousins?"

Broncos exec: "Totally, bruh. But don't tell nobody cuz we'll get in trouble for tampering."


Or it could be that Cowherd is throwing **** at the wall trying to make it stick. Other media outlets and reporters would've been all over this immediately. They wouldn't do the Broncos any favors in covering up their tampering.


It wouldn't be the first time Cowherd did it.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:32 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Or it could be that Cowherd is throwing **** at the wall trying to make it stick. Other media outlets and reporters would've been all over this immediately. They wouldn't do the Broncos any favors in covering up their tampering.


It wouldn't be the first time Cowherd did it.


Wouldn't be the last either. He's a talking head who gets little to no respect by anyone.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:59 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:If it would expose the Broncos to a hit for tampering, that's exactly what they should say.

Reporter: "Is it true you guys are close to a deal with Kirk cousins?"

Broncos exec: "Totally, bruh. But don't tell nobody cuz we'll get in trouble for tampering."


Or it could be that Cowherd is throwing **** at the wall trying to make it stick. Other media outlets and reporters would've been all over this immediately. They wouldn't do the Broncos any favors in covering up their tampering.


Perhaps Cowherd is the only guy willing to go public with it. You keep saying he's making it up, but you don't know that. He may be exactly right, but the Broncos are not going to corroborate the story because the league might take picks away.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:33 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Or it could be that Cowherd is throwing **** at the wall trying to make it stick. Other media outlets and reporters would've been all over this immediately. They wouldn't do the Broncos any favors in covering up their tampering.


Perhaps Cowherd is the only guy willing to go public with it. You keep saying he's making it up, but you don't know that. He may be exactly right, but the Broncos are not going to corroborate the story because the league might take picks away.


Liked I stated other outlets would be all over this. And not 1 is even mentioning it.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:55 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Perhaps Cowherd is the only guy willing to go public with it. You keep saying he's making it up, but you don't know that. He may be exactly right, but the Broncos are not going to corroborate the story because the league might take picks away.


Liked I stated other outlets would be all over this. And not 1 is even mentioning it.

Because the other outlets can't corroborate the story!

WE

DON'T

KNOW

If Cowherd has a source or is pulling it out of his ass. The Broncos won't corroborate it to ANYONE. They Can't! Cousin's agent can't either. We're just not going to know until later.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:02 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Liked I stated other outlets would be all over this. And not 1 is even mentioning it.

Because the other outlets can't corroborate the story!

WE

DON'T

KNOW

If Cowherd has a source or is pulling it out of his ass. The Broncos won't corroborate it to ANYONE. They Can't! Cousin's agent can't either. We're just not going to know until later.


He pretty much put this out there for fools like you who give this piece of **** any chance of credibility
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:04 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Because the other outlets can't corroborate the story!

WE

DON'T

KNOW

If Cowherd has a source or is pulling it out of his ass. The Broncos won't corroborate it to ANYONE. They Can't! Cousin's agent can't either. We're just not going to know until later.


He pretty much put this out there for fools like you who give this piece of **** any chance of credibility

You know this has a 50/50 shot of biting you in the ass, right?
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:10 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
He pretty much put this out there for fools like you who give this piece of **** any chance of credibility

You know this has a 50/50 shot of biting you in the ass, right?

Fruitless endeavor, man.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Caradoc » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:41 pm

Buc2 wrote:
terrytate wrote:
Cousins has a say in it. He may well look at Jacksonville, see how close they got with a Bortles offense, and decide that is the place he can chase a ring and still get paid. I'll admit that I don't know the particulars of any hypothetical offer Jacksonville could offer but I would think they'd be competitive. Offloading Bortles will free space and they are still several years from having to resign their star rookies.

The only sure thing here is that the Skins got fleeced. Like Draft Day fleeced. Like, I've read it a few times now and still can't believe they did it fleeced.


He could lose a sizable amount to state/local income taxes. So, conceivably, Jax or Vegas could come in with a matching offer of, say, Cleveland or the Jets and instantly be more attractive because of their lack of state/local income taxes alone.

State taxes based on, $20M in taxable income:
New York, NY = $2.4M
Minneapolis, MN = $2M
Buffalo, NY = $1.7M
Cleveland, OH = $1.1M
Phoenix, AZ = $0.9M
Las Vegas, NV = $0
Jacksonville, FL = $0


That's not exactly how that works, you know. Players pay State taxes based on where the game is played. When the Bucs play at NYG or NYJ, the players pay NJ state taxes, likewise they pay CA taxes when they play at SF et. al. So, while not living in a high tax state does have some benefit, it's not like a 20 million salary in NY is going to be a full 2.4 million more than a QB for Tampa/Miami.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:44 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
He pretty much put this out there for fools like you who give this piece of **** any chance of credibility

You know this has a 50/50 shot of biting you in the ass, right?


Not really. Even if he signs with Denver, what Cowherd is implying has consequences for Denver. It would be the most obvious and easiest to prove case of tampering. This has a 100% chance of biting you in the ass.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:46 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:You know this has a 50/50 shot of biting you in the ass, right?


Not really. Even if he signs with Denver, what Cowherd is implying has consequences for Denver. It would be the most obvious and easiest to prove case of tampering. This has a 100% chance of biting you in the ass.

LOL. My position is we don't know.

0% buddy.

But go ahead and die on that hill.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Pirate Life » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:32 pm

As someone in the Washington area, the whole Cousins thing has been a debacle, including this.

Regardless of what Bootz says, Fuller was their second best corner by the team's own estimation. Breeland may have been the starter, but he's had an uneven year and likely won't be resigned by the team this year as he's taken a step back. Most of the players on defense are rather ticked about Fuller being traded, especially DJ Swearinger. Fuller is a playmaker, Breeland is seen as a decent corner, but he's not a consistent playmaker. Teams usually picked on Breeland rather than throw at Norman or Fuller, heck Evans' huge game in 2014 was at Breeland's expense (granted, rookie year for Breeland but...)

Cousins has been treated terribly by Washington (and a segment of the fan base), mostly because of his success when the Snyder BFF QB Griffin ended up being so bad. GM always calls him Curt instead of Kirk, they low-balled him in contract talks (he wasn't getting 72 million guaranteed unless he was injured, it was $53 million guaranteed) and outside of Gruden and the players they never embraced Cousins as the starting QB. They always talked about wanting to see more from him while also putting more on his shoulders and taking away his weapons. Before his first franchise tag, his agent submitted a contract that would have paid Cousins $19 million a year for five years. They balked because of the length and because the guaranteed money favored Cousins and not the team. During the next season, they did very little to make Cousins feel like the team wanted him. Leaks from the team put Cousins in a bad light in the contract negotiations (Cousins has a call-in show to a sports radio network here that's not affiliated with the team, Snyder's sports radio station failed and was sold off, it's a religious station now), they kept talking about him having to prove himself more and a segment of the fan base (and the front office) would magnify every mistake he made or keep moving the goal posts for what he needed to prove.

Frankly, anyone who's watched both QBs play should not even remotely consider Smith to be the better QB. With comparable talent around him that Cousins had this year, Smith was a god awful QB when he was on the 49ers. Washington's starting WRs were Terrell Pryor and Josh Doctson with Crowder in the slot. Tight end is a 34 year old Vernon Davis when Reed went down with his billionth concussion in his career. The team was down to two running backs who were a) a rookie buried on the depth chart and b) a practice squad guy picked up off the street as well as a patchwork offensive line and a defense that rivaled the Bucs in futility this year. Compare that to Smith who had Hill, Hunt and Kelce, three of the more dynamic players at their positions in the league.

So, to sum up, Washington traded for a QB that threw a somewhat average career high of 26 TDs this year while having some of the best, explosive talent around him on the team. This is the QB that a few years back didn't have a TD thrown to a WR for an entire season. Not. One. WR. TD. He went 564 days without throwing a TD to a WR. And now he's on a team that has a worse backfield than the Buccaneers, quite possibly the worst stable of WRs in the game, and a TE group that includes a mega-talented but oft concussed Reed and Vernon Davis. Not exactly what I'd choose to start a team with on offense. Oh, and they gave away one of their better young defenders who was seen as an integral part of a group of DBs with a lot of potential if they could get some production from the front seven that doesn't come from Kerrigan.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby MJW » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:15 am

Pirate Life wrote:As someone in the Washington area, the whole Cousins thing has been a debacle, including this.

Regardless of what Bootz says, Fuller was their second best corner by the team's own estimation. Breeland may have been the starter, but he's had an uneven year and likely won't be resigned by the team this year as he's taken a step back. Most of the players on defense are rather ticked about Fuller being traded, especially DJ Swearinger. Fuller is a playmaker, Breeland is seen as a decent corner, but he's not a consistent playmaker. Teams usually picked on Breeland rather than throw at Norman or Fuller, heck Evans' huge game in 2014 was at Breeland's expense (granted, rookie year for Breeland but...)

Cousins has been treated terribly by Washington (and a segment of the fan base), mostly because of his success when the Snyder BFF QB Griffin ended up being so bad. GM always calls him Curt instead of Kirk, they low-balled him in contract talks (he wasn't getting 72 million guaranteed unless he was injured, it was $53 million guaranteed) and outside of Gruden and the players they never embraced Cousins as the starting QB. They always talked about wanting to see more from him while also putting more on his shoulders and taking away his weapons. Before his first franchise tag, his agent submitted a contract that would have paid Cousins $19 million a year for five years. They balked because of the length and because the guaranteed money favored Cousins and not the team. During the next season, they did very little to make Cousins feel like the team wanted him. Leaks from the team put Cousins in a bad light in the contract negotiations (Cousins has a call-in show to a sports radio network here that's not affiliated with the team, Snyder's sports radio station failed and was sold off, it's a religious station now), they kept talking about him having to prove himself more and a segment of the fan base (and the front office) would magnify every mistake he made or keep moving the goal posts for what he needed to prove.

Frankly, anyone who's watched both QBs play should not even remotely consider Smith to be the better QB. With comparable talent around him that Cousins had this year, Smith was a god awful QB when he was on the 49ers. Washington's starting WRs were Terrell Pryor and Josh Doctson with Crowder in the slot. Tight end is a 34 year old Vernon Davis when Reed went down with his billionth concussion in his career. The team was down to two running backs who were a) a rookie buried on the depth chart and b) a practice squad guy picked up off the street as well as a patchwork offensive line and a defense that rivaled the Bucs in futility this year. Compare that to Smith who had Hill, Hunt and Kelce, three of the more dynamic players at their positions in the league.

So, to sum up, Washington traded for a QB that threw a somewhat average career high of 26 TDs this year while having some of the best, explosive talent around him on the team. This is the QB that a few years back didn't have a TD thrown to a WR for an entire season. Not. One. WR. TD. He went 564 days without throwing a TD to a WR. And now he's on a team that has a worse backfield than the Buccaneers, quite possibly the worst stable of WRs in the game, and a TE group that includes a mega-talented but oft concussed Reed and Vernon Davis. Not exactly what I'd choose to start a team with on offense. Oh, and they gave away one of their better young defenders who was seen as an integral part of a group of DBs with a lot of potential if they could get some production from the front seven that doesn't come from Kerrigan.


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This was a terrible trade. The Skins got worse, got older, lost their most valuable asset for nothing, and paid a Day Two pick and a very good young corner for the chance. All because they couldn't make it work with a quarterback who wanted to be there if they'd paid him market value because Daniel Snyder is a rectal clown.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Naismith » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:25 am

I've watched both play a lot and I think Smith is the better QB by a decent bit.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby MJW » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:09 pm

Naismith wrote:I've watched both play a lot and I think Smith is the better QB by a decent bit.


You are entitled to your opinion, but it is a lonely one. Alex Smith does what he does very well, but what he does is pretty limited. Hence why the 49ers chose Kap over him, and then the Chiefs used two first rounders on the exact opposite kind of quarterback.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby sanka » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:32 am

Naismith wrote:I've watched both play a lot and I think Smith is the better QB by a decent bit.

Very nice observation....I agree with you. Lots of shallow so called experts who only look at stats forget that Cousins is average at best and a career backup ...Andy Reid is the new Jeff Fisher and Marvin Lewis..
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby MJW » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:44 am

sanka wrote:
Naismith wrote:I've watched both play a lot and I think Smith is the better QB by a decent bit.

Very nice observation....I agree with you. Lots of shallow so called experts who only look at stats forget that Cousins is average at best and a career backup ...Andy Reid is the new Jeff Fisher and Marvin Lewis..


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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Selmon Rules » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:43 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:And the Redskins under Dan Snyder are still a joke. They land an older, inferior quarterback, give up a third rounder and a damn fine young corner, and let Kirk Cousins walk for no compensation. All because they couldn't do what every other team in the league does, and lock down their quarterback.


They didn't believe he was "their guy". If you don't believe it as an organization, why force it? Because it's PC? Because it's "the natural thing to do"? Washington didn't believe in Kirk Cousins as their guy. I'd say believing in someone to help you win a championship is very important before you go making him the highest paid QB in football.

Late to the thread but if the Skins didn't think he was the guy, why keep franchising him?? Seems like they would have moved on with new, flashy, draft pick as "their guy"....

Someone else may have already asked but....
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Sammich » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:46 pm

I don't blame the 'Skins for making the trade- they did what they felt they had to do. The mistake they made was painting themselves into a corner by creating a hole where there wasn't one before. They then had to spend resources filling a hole that wasnt a hole in the first place.

It's easy for Bucs fans to identify the scenario, considering how often we do the exact same thing.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby MJW » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:43 am

Selmon Rules wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
They didn't believe he was "their guy". If you don't believe it as an organization, why force it? Because it's PC? Because it's "the natural thing to do"? Washington didn't believe in Kirk Cousins as their guy. I'd say believing in someone to help you win a championship is very important before you go making him the highest paid QB in football.

Late to the thread but if the Skins didn't think he was the guy, why keep franchising him?? Seems like they would have moved on with new, flashy, draft pick as "their guy"....

Someone else may have already asked but....


Let me explain:

99% of the world - fans, Redskins fans, Chiefs fans, talking heads, teammates, randos - agreed that the Skins horribly mishandled this situation, that they got fleeced by the Chiefs, and that they're a worse team than they were. For contrarian enthusiast Bootz, that's like dropping John Belushi into a swimming pool filled with cocaine. There's no way he can help himself. There's no way he's not argue the exact opposite and try to justify that with whatever random bullshit floats through his stream of consciousness. So it goes.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby MJW » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:47 am

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2231 ... rk-cousins

Meantime, the Redskins continue to corner the market on stupid. If they tagged Cousins, all he'd have to do is not sign it, and they'd have to figure out a way to handle a $31 million dollar cap hit for him AND a $17 million dollar cap hit for Alex Smith.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby DreadNaught » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:18 am

MJW wrote:http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22315705/washington-redskins-consider-placing-franchise-tag-kirk-cousins

Meantime, the Redskins continue to corner the market on stupid. If they tagged Cousins, all he'd have to do is not sign it, and they'd have to figure out a way to handle a $31 million dollar cap hit for him AND a $17 million dollar cap hit for Alex Smith.


If he doesn't sign he doesn't get paid b/c he'd be holding out.

Just because a player is tagged doesn't mean that tag can't be removed up to a certain point in time.

If no team trades for Cousins the Redskins will just release him before the tag becomes permanent. Panthers did the same with Josh Norman a couple years ago.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby MJW » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:41 am

DreadNaught wrote:
MJW wrote:http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22315705/washington-redskins-consider-placing-franchise-tag-kirk-cousins

Meantime, the Redskins continue to corner the market on stupid. If they tagged Cousins, all he'd have to do is not sign it, and they'd have to figure out a way to handle a $31 million dollar cap hit for him AND a $17 million dollar cap hit for Alex Smith.


If he doesn't sign he doesn't get paid b/c he'd be holding out.

Just because a player is tagged doesn't mean that tag can't be removed up to a certain point in time.

If no team trades for Cousins the Redskins will just release him before the tag becomes permanent. Panthers did the same with Josh Norman a couple years ago.


All he'd have to do is sign it and they'd instantly have to find the cap room for it. So, if they tagged him, they'd basically already have to have the cap room cleared out. Same difference.

The only thing accomplished by tagging him and then rescinding is pissing off his agent, NFL players in general, and the NFLPA. There's no upside.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Naismith » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:52 am

MJW wrote:99% of the world - fans, Redskins fans, Chiefs fans, talking heads, teammates, randos - agreed that the Skins horribly mishandled this situation, that they got fleeced by the Chiefs, and that they're a worse team than they were.


This is major hyperbole. The question is what kind of assets are you willing to give up to improve at the most important position in football. Depending on the amount of improvement, the answer should range from a little to a lot. For instance, if the Bucs could improve from Jameis, a third and VH3 would be a small price to pay. Whether Alex Smith is an improvement from Kirk Cousins is subjective. I, personally, believe he is a good bit better. It's clear the Redskins felt the same. I'm sure there are plenty who agree he's better, but wouldn't have paid that price to get him. Conversely, there are those that think it's a step down and wouldn't have paid any price. This definitely isn't as simple as, "Everyone thinks they made a terrible move and if you don't, you're just being contrarian."
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby DreadNaught » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:52 am

MJW wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
If he doesn't sign he doesn't get paid b/c he'd be holding out.

Just because a player is tagged doesn't mean that tag can't be removed up to a certain point in time.

If no team trades for Cousins the Redskins will just release him before the tag becomes permanent. Panthers did the same with Josh Norman a couple years ago.


All he'd have to do is sign it and they'd instantly have to find the cap room for it. So, if they tagged him, they'd basically already have to have the cap room cleared out. Same difference.

The only thing accomplished by tagging him and then rescinding is pissing off his agent, NFL players in general, and the NFLPA. There's no upside.


A team offering a draft pick is the upside. Not saying a team would, but it's possible a team would part with a mid round pick to have Cousins in 2018 along with the exclusive rights to sign him long term through next March.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby MJW » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:58 am

DreadNaught wrote:
MJW wrote:
All he'd have to do is sign it and they'd instantly have to find the cap room for it. So, if they tagged him, they'd basically already have to have the cap room cleared out. Same difference.

The only thing accomplished by tagging him and then rescinding is pissing off his agent, NFL players in general, and the NFLPA. There's no upside.


A team offering a draft pick is the upside. Not saying a team would, but it's possible a team would part with a mid round pick to have Cousins in 2018 along with the exclusive rights to sign him long term through next March.


Unless Cousins is an idiot, he's going to make it crystal clear (though his agent, obviously) that he will not sign a long-term extension if tagged and traded. Now, there's a far-outside possibility that a team would trade for him anyway, as a one-year rental or in an attempt to call his bluff. But that team would have zero leverage with him, just like the Redskins. Besides which, they're likely to get a 3rd round comp pick if he leaves. I don't think they're doing much better than that in a trade, for the reasons stated.

They had three years where they could have dealt him, probably for a haul. Or they could have offered him a fair contract extension. They did neither. There's no polishing up the turd at this point. They mishandled the situation at every turn. They aren't going to fix that now.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby uscbucsfan » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:03 am

DreadNaught wrote:
MJW wrote:http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22315705/washington-redskins-consider-placing-franchise-tag-kirk-cousins

Meantime, the Redskins continue to corner the market on stupid. If they tagged Cousins, all he'd have to do is not sign it, and they'd have to figure out a way to handle a $31 million dollar cap hit for him AND a $17 million dollar cap hit for Alex Smith.


If he doesn't sign he doesn't get paid b/c he'd be holding out.

Just because a player is tagged doesn't mean that tag can't be removed up to a certain point in time.

If no team trades for Cousins the Redskins will just release him before the tag becomes permanent. Panthers did the same with Josh Norman a couple years ago.

If they pull the tag they would lose the compensatory pick they would get for him I believe.
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