Alex Smith: Traded

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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby MJW » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:06 am

uscbucsfan wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
If he doesn't sign he doesn't get paid b/c he'd be holding out.

Just because a player is tagged doesn't mean that tag can't be removed up to a certain point in time.

If no team trades for Cousins the Redskins will just release him before the tag becomes permanent. Panthers did the same with Josh Norman a couple years ago.

If they pull the tag they would lose the compensatory pick they would get for him I believe.


That also. The Panthers didn't get a comp pick for Norman for this reason.

Tagging him makes zero sense. They have no leverage. They'd have to clear $30 million. They'd have to convince another party to trade for him and give them MORE than a 3rd rounder, so they can inherit a pissed-off $30 million dollar quarterback rental. It's like a plan George Costanza would have come up with when he worked for the Yankees.

They need to say, "Wow, we really screwed this whole thing up. Good luck to the guy." Then let him sign somewhere else. Collect their comp pick. And enjoy the soothing mediocrity of Alex Smith for a couple years, before they have to start over again at the position.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby DreadNaught » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:07 am

I don't disagree with most of your points here, just that there is a potential upside to tagging him.

If Cousins wants to play on another 1 year contract to gain more leverage that is his perogotive. But if a team gives up a mid round pick and offers Cousins close to $30m per year with around $75m in guarantees he'd have to consider it. How much more does think he can make next offseason and what does he stand to lose if he doesn't then tears his knee up week 1.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Nano » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:45 am

Andrew Brandt @AndrewBrandt
Beyond holding a $34M Cap charge on Cousins, Redskins would/should face potential grievance from union. Tag negotiated into CBA for teams to have 'intent' to sign players long term.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby DreadNaught » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:52 am

Nano wrote:
Andrew Brandt @AndrewBrandt
Beyond holding a $34M Cap charge on Cousins, Redskins would/should face potential grievance from union. Tag negotiated into CBA for teams to have 'intent' to sign players long term.


Just saw that also... Didn't realize that language was used for the tag. Looks like more bad PR for the Redskins management.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:33 pm

Naismith wrote:
MJW wrote:99% of the world - fans, Redskins fans, Chiefs fans, talking heads, teammates, randos - agreed that the Skins horribly mishandled this situation, that they got fleeced by the Chiefs, and that they're a worse team than they were.


This is major hyperbole. The question is what kind of assets are you willing to give up to improve at the most important position in football. Depending on the amount of improvement, the answer should range from a little to a lot. For instance, if the Bucs could improve from Jameis, a third and VH3 would be a small price to pay. Whether Alex Smith is an improvement from Kirk Cousins is subjective. I, personally, believe he is a good bit better. It's clear the Redskins felt the same. I'm sure there are plenty who agree he's better, but wouldn't have paid that price to get him. Conversely, there are those that think it's a step down and wouldn't have paid any price. This definitely isn't as simple as, "Everyone thinks they made a terrible move and if you don't, you're just being contrarian."


To her it is as simple as that. She’s so incredibly desperate to prove this is a stupid move she’s painting it as fact. She really is a joke lately when it comes to football conversation. She’s contradicting herself also yet again. It’s exhausting. And in the media world many of them are saying they feel Smith is a better fit and more consistent than Cousins for that type of offense. Smith can also make plays with his legs better than Cousins can. MJW is trying too hard.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby MJW » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:16 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Naismith wrote:
This is major hyperbole. The question is what kind of assets are you willing to give up to improve at the most important position in football. Depending on the amount of improvement, the answer should range from a little to a lot. For instance, if the Bucs could improve from Jameis, a third and VH3 would be a small price to pay. Whether Alex Smith is an improvement from Kirk Cousins is subjective. I, personally, believe he is a good bit better. It's clear the Redskins felt the same. I'm sure there are plenty who agree he's better, but wouldn't have paid that price to get him. Conversely, there are those that think it's a step down and wouldn't have paid any price. This definitely isn't as simple as, "Everyone thinks they made a terrible move and if you don't, you're just being contrarian."


To her it is as simple as that. She’s so incredibly desperate to prove this is a stupid move she’s painting it as fact. She really is a joke lately when it comes to football conversation. She’s contradicting herself also yet again. It’s exhausting. And in the media world many of them are saying they feel Smith is a better fit and more consistent than Cousins for that type of offense. Smith can also make plays with his legs better than Cousins can. MJW is trying too hard.


Tell you what slugger...I'll wait here while you get me some links regarding how great the Redskins have done here. How they handled the Kirk Cousins situation well, how they're a better team now than they were last week, how they wouldn't miss Kendall Fuller, etc.

Here, I'll get you started: https://www.google.com/search?client=op ... 8&oe=UTF-8

Here's some more help: https://www.google.com/search?client=op ... NiwyCvS2ao

Here's another one: https://www.google.com/search?client=op ... akmkoB5ly8

Those are the three most obvious google searches I could think of to support your point.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Doctor » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:59 pm

I like Smith as much as the next guy, but I'm not taking him over Cousins.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Caradoc » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:18 pm

Naismith wrote:
MJW wrote:99% of the world - fans, Redskins fans, Chiefs fans, talking heads, teammates, randos - agreed that the Skins horribly mishandled this situation, that they got fleeced by the Chiefs, and that they're a worse team than they were.


This is major hyperbole. The question is what kind of assets are you willing to give up to improve at the most important position in football. Depending on the amount of improvement, the answer should range from a little to a lot. For instance, if the Bucs could improve from Jameis, a third and VH3 would be a small price to pay. Whether Alex Smith is an improvement from Kirk Cousins is subjective. I, personally, believe he is a good bit better. It's clear the Redskins felt the same. I'm sure there are plenty who agree he's better, but wouldn't have paid that price to get him. Conversely, there are those that think it's a step down and wouldn't have paid any price. This definitely isn't as simple as, "Everyone thinks they made a terrible move and if you don't, you're just being contrarian."



It's clear you are a one percenter.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby MJW » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:00 am

Caradoc wrote:
Naismith wrote:
This is major hyperbole. The question is what kind of assets are you willing to give up to improve at the most important position in football. Depending on the amount of improvement, the answer should range from a little to a lot. For instance, if the Bucs could improve from Jameis, a third and VH3 would be a small price to pay. Whether Alex Smith is an improvement from Kirk Cousins is subjective. I, personally, believe he is a good bit better. It's clear the Redskins felt the same. I'm sure there are plenty who agree he's better, but wouldn't have paid that price to get him. Conversely, there are those that think it's a step down and wouldn't have paid any price. This definitely isn't as simple as, "Everyone thinks they made a terrible move and if you don't, you're just being contrarian."



It's clear you are a one percenter.


That 1% number is still way too high. There's Alex Smith's mom, Dan Snyder's housekeeper, and two guys on the internet. And I'm not sure about Alex Smith's mom.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby terrytate » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:35 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
Naismith wrote:
This is major hyperbole. The question is what kind of assets are you willing to give up to improve at the most important position in football. Depending on the amount of improvement, the answer should range from a little to a lot. For instance, if the Bucs could improve from Jameis, a third and VH3 would be a small price to pay. Whether Alex Smith is an improvement from Kirk Cousins is subjective. I, personally, believe he is a good bit better. It's clear the Redskins felt the same. I'm sure there are plenty who agree he's better, but wouldn't have paid that price to get him. Conversely, there are those that think it's a step down and wouldn't have paid any price. This definitely isn't as simple as, "Everyone thinks they made a terrible move and if you don't, you're just being contrarian."


To her it is as simple as that. She’s so incredibly desperate to prove this is a stupid move she’s painting it as fact. She really is a joke lately when it comes to football conversation. She’s contradicting herself also yet again. It’s exhausting. And in the media world many of them are saying they feel Smith is a better fit and more consistent than Cousins for that type of offense. Smith can also make plays with his legs better than Cousins can. MJW is trying too hard.


Speaking of trying too hard lol.


Most view Alex Smith as both a worse qb than Cousins but also several years older. Even if you are one of the few who think Smith will be an upgrade to Cousins, you can't believe it's a significant upgrade and there is still the matter of Smith being 4 years closer to the end. Keeping the 2nd and Fuller would have help the team much more than swapping Cousins for Smith by anyone's math. That's really the rub, even if you like Smith the price to get him was too high for a team that already has so many needs.

This is further proof that Washington will never get anywhere with Snyder.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:32 am

terrytate wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
To her it is as simple as that. She’s so incredibly desperate to prove this is a stupid move she’s painting it as fact. She really is a joke lately when it comes to football conversation. She’s contradicting herself also yet again. It’s exhausting. And in the media world many of them are saying they feel Smith is a better fit and more consistent than Cousins for that type of offense. Smith can also make plays with his legs better than Cousins can. MJW is trying too hard.


Speaking of trying too hard lol.


Most view Alex Smith as both a worse qb than Cousins but also several years older. Even if you are one of the few who think Smith will be an upgrade to Cousins, you can't believe it's a significant upgrade and there is still the matter of Smith being 4 years closer to the end. Keeping the 2nd and Fuller would have help the team much more than swapping Cousins for Smith by anyone's math. That's really the rub, even if you like Smith the price to get him was too high for a team that already has so many needs.

This is further proof that Washington will never get anywhere with Snyder.


That isn't proof of anything other than people disagree with the trade. You trying desperately like MJW to turn your dislike into fact doesn't make it so, k!ddo.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:59 am

The Cousins-Alex Smith discussion is compelling imo. You get the 'stats/production' argument vs the 'wins' argument.

Cousins has certainly been the more prolific passer while Alex Smith wins game at an elite % where only guys named Brady and Rodgers have been better the past 5 years.

I don't think age is a big deal since Smith is only 34 and has plenty of good years left.

To me they are both good quality NFL starting QBs, but neither are elite QBs that can pull a team up (tractors). So when you're talking about paying Cousins $30m vs the $23m for Alex Smith (per year) over the next 4 years I can certainly see how Smith would be the better option. But giving up Fuller + a 3rd pretty much negates whatever the value/savings imo.

The success of the teams will determine who "won" this trade. I don't think it was bad or good for Redskins at this point. I certainly don't fault them for not believing Cousins should be the highest paid QB in the NFL and trying to move away from that situation. They obviously bungled the situation over the past few years and thus made their own bed here. But separating the history up to this point from the trade itself, I don't have an issue with it from a Redskins perspective. They are a perennial 8-8 team w/ Cousins, maybe a WC team if they catch some breaks. It could be argued they won't be more than that w/ Smith, but he's also cheaper and will be easier to move on from than if they committed to Cousins.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Deuce » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:39 am

DreadNaught wrote:The Cousins-Alex Smith discussion is compelling imo. You get the 'stats/production' argument vs the 'wins' argument.

Cousins has certainly been the more prolific passer while Alex Smith wins game at an elite % where only guys named Brady and Rodgers have been better the past 5 years.


Attributing those wins to Alex Smith is illogical. He has traditionally had one of the better defenses in the league and best offensive minds coaching him. Before this season, he never had two games over 300 yards in the same season. He's been a really good game manager for most of his career.

It's not really a matter of Chiefs vs. Redskins, more Redskins vs. Redskins. They should have locked Cousins down a long time ago and spent the last few seasons surrounding him with weapons. Instead, they decided to surround him with Jamison Crowder and Samaje Perine, not commit, and now trade for an older, worse QB. I firmly believe this will be proven next season.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Naismith » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:49 am

If they wanted to lock down Cousins, they would have. They obviously didn't believe in him enough to make that commitment.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby terrytate » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:08 pm

Deuce wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:The Cousins-Alex Smith discussion is compelling imo. You get the 'stats/production' argument vs the 'wins' argument.

Cousins has certainly been the more prolific passer while Alex Smith wins game at an elite % where only guys named Brady and Rodgers have been better the past 5 years.


Attributing those wins to Alex Smith is illogical. He has traditionally had one of the better defenses in the league and best offensive minds coaching him. Before this season, he never had two games over 300 yards in the same season. He's been a really good game manager for most of his career.

It's not really a matter of Chiefs vs. Redskins, more Redskins vs. Redskins. They should have locked Cousins down a long time ago and spent the last few seasons surrounding him with weapons. Instead, they decided to surround him with Jamison Crowder and Samaje Perine, not commit, and now trade for an older, worse QB. I firmly believe this will be proven next season.


This. Smith is a game manager with the physical traits of a first overall pick. He might have been enough for the Jaguars to win the title, but he's never going to be a guy who carries an offense far on his own. Cousins isn't prime Peyton or anything, but he's shown that he can carry an offense when needed. I wouldn't have traded them straight up. Paying a 2nd and one of your best young defensive talents to do it should get a gm run out of football.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Naismith » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:17 pm

Not that it makes a ton of difference, but the Redskins gave up a third round pick, not a second.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:31 pm

terrytate wrote:
Deuce wrote:
Attributing those wins to Alex Smith is illogical. He has traditionally had one of the better defenses in the league and best offensive minds coaching him. Before this season, he never had two games over 300 yards in the same season. He's been a really good game manager for most of his career.

It's not really a matter of Chiefs vs. Redskins, more Redskins vs. Redskins. They should have locked Cousins down a long time ago and spent the last few seasons surrounding him with weapons. Instead, they decided to surround him with Jamison Crowder and Samaje Perine, not commit, and now trade for an older, worse QB. I firmly believe this will be proven next season.


This. Smith is a game manager with the physical traits of a first overall pick. He might have been enough for the Jaguars to win the title, but he's never going to be a guy who carries an offense far on his own. Cousins isn't prime Peyton or anything, but he's shown that he can carry an offense when needed. I wouldn't have traded them straight up. Paying a 2nd and one of your best young defensive talents to do it should get a gm run out of football.


What exactly has Cousins carried an offense to? He lost several playmakers this year and as a result took a hit. It shows that HE cannot carry them to much of anything. You don't make a guy like that the highest paid player in football history. All you're doing is hiding behind the same tired false argument: Alex Smith is a game manager. Saying it over and over won't make it true. It's obvious you don't know what you're watching on the field.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:33 pm

Naismith wrote:Not that it makes a ton of difference, but the Redskins gave up a third round pick, not a second.


A 3rd round pick and their #3 corner for a QB. That's a win.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:37 pm

Deuce wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:The Cousins-Alex Smith discussion is compelling imo. You get the 'stats/production' argument vs the 'wins' argument.

Cousins has certainly been the more prolific passer while Alex Smith wins game at an elite % where only guys named Brady and Rodgers have been better the past 5 years.


Attributing those wins to Alex Smith is illogical. He has traditionally had one of the better defenses in the league and best offensive minds coaching him. Before this season, he never had two games over 300 yards in the same season. He's been a really good game manager for most of his career.

It's not really a matter of Chiefs vs. Redskins, more Redskins vs. Redskins. They should have locked Cousins down a long time ago and spent the last few seasons surrounding him with weapons. Instead, they decided to surround him with Jamison Crowder and Samaje Perine, not commit, and now trade for an older, worse QB. I firmly believe this will be proven next season.


That's so typical of stupid casual fans to penalize a guy because his FO decided it was better to build an entire team and not just say "**** it lets make this team as bad as possible so we can see how good this QB is". You're such an idiot and your POV is one of the more embarrassing things you've written. Ridiculous.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Deuce » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:47 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Deuce wrote:
Attributing those wins to Alex Smith is illogical. He has traditionally had one of the better defenses in the league and best offensive minds coaching him. Before this season, he never had two games over 300 yards in the same season. He's been a really good game manager for most of his career.

It's not really a matter of Chiefs vs. Redskins, more Redskins vs. Redskins. They should have locked Cousins down a long time ago and spent the last few seasons surrounding him with weapons. Instead, they decided to surround him with Jamison Crowder and Samaje Perine, not commit, and now trade for an older, worse QB. I firmly believe this will be proven next season.


That's so typical of stupid casual fans to penalize a guy because his FO decided it was better to build an entire team and not just say "**** it lets make this team as bad as possible so we can see how good this QB is". You're such an idiot and your POV is one of the more embarrassing things you've written. Ridiculous.


Could you provide me with a list of embarrassing things I've written? Just curious where this fits.

And for the record, you think Alex Smith is better than Cousins or that this was a good trade? (Anything said will be used against you when you are (once again) proven wrong.)
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:56 pm

Deuce wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
That's so typical of stupid casual fans to penalize a guy because his FO decided it was better to build an entire team and not just say "**** it lets make this team as bad as possible so we can see how good this QB is". You're such an idiot and your POV is one of the more embarrassing things you've written. Ridiculous.


Could you provide me with a list of embarrassing things I've written? Just curious where this fits.

And for the record, you think Alex Smith is better than Cousins or that this was a good trade? (Anything said will be used against you when you are (once again) proven wrong.)


Sure here you go.

search.php?author_id=230&sr=posts

I put them on the same level. Cousins doesn't want to be there anymore, Washington doesn't believe in him. Smith fits that system better as we've seen since he's been with Reid. He's cheaper than Cousins will be and does things Cousins can't.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Deuce » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:06 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Deuce wrote:
Could you provide me with a list of embarrassing things I've written? Just curious where this fits.

And for the record, you think Alex Smith is better than Cousins or that this was a good trade? (Anything said will be used against you when you are (once again) proven wrong.)


Sure here you go.

http://www.buczone.com/search.php?autho ... 0&sr=posts

I put them on the same level. Cousins doesn't want to be there anymore, Washington doesn't believe in him. Smith fits that system better as we've seen since he's been with Reid. He's cheaper than Cousins will be and does things Cousins can't.


Ha! Good one but I was hoping for more of a Top 10 type deal.

Anyway, what does Smith do that Cousins can't?
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:17 pm

Deuce wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Sure here you go.

search.php?author_id=230&sr=posts

I put them on the same level. Cousins doesn't want to be there anymore, Washington doesn't believe in him. Smith fits that system better as we've seen since he's been with Reid. He's cheaper than Cousins will be and does things Cousins can't.


Ha! Good one but I was hoping for more of a Top 10 type deal.

Anyway, what does Smith do that Cousins can't?


Smith makes plays with his mobility. He's a threat in that aspect. He's also better at the deep pass than Cousins is. If you understood football and actually watched them both play you'd see this.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:32 pm

Cousins is 24-24-1 in his 3 seasons as a full time starting QB, Alex Smith led teams have averaged 10 wins per yer the past 7 seasons he's been a starting QB and consistently has the team he's starting for in the playoffs. So whoever stated Cousins has shown the ability to lead his team in some way Alex Smith has not is making an nonsensical point and is just making the stats argument I referenced earlier.

Say what you want about Alex Smith's limitations (i.e. "game manager", the guy wins football games and an elite rate compared to his peers and has done so for the past 7 seasons on two different teams. It's unfair to not give him some of the credit with that much of a sample size.

I don't see a huge difference between Cousins and Smith as players and believe they are in the same tier when it comes to experience and level of play. Neither are young pups so they pretty much are who they are at this point, thus neither are going to raise a team up based on their individual play. For either to have playoff success they will require an elite roster (like most teams that don't have Brady/Rodgers).

But if I had to choose one for the next 3-4 seasons I'd pick Alex Smith, especially when you factor in he'll cost $7m less per season.
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:39 pm

DreadNaught wrote:Cousins is 24-24-1 in his 3 seasons as a full time starting QB, Alex Smith led teams have averaged 10 wins per yer the past 7 seasons he's been a starting QB and consistently has the team he's starting for in the playoffs. So whoever stated Cousins has shown the ability to lead his team in some way Alex Smith has not is making an nonsensical point and is just making the stats argument I referenced earlier.

Say what you want about Alex Smith's limitations (i.e. "game manager", the guy wins football games and an elite rate compared to his peers and has done so for the past 7 seasons on two different teams. It's unfair to not give him some of the credit with that much of a sample size.

I don't see a huge difference between Cousins and Smith as players and believe they are in the same tier when it comes to experience and level of play. Neither are young pups so they pretty much are who they are at this point, thus neither are going to raise a team up based on their individual play. For either to have playoff success they will require an elite roster (like most teams that don't have Brady/Rodgers).

But if I had to choose one for the next 3-4 seasons I'd pick Alex Smith, especially when you factor in he'll cost $7m less per season.


Exactly. The age difference is irrelevant at this point. 34 vs 30 and we're talking about QBs here not RBs.

Another thing to factor in. Both QBs #1 receivers this past year were undersized WRs drafted day 3. Smith helped his guy reach 1000 yards and his 2nd probowl in as many seasons while Cousins helped his guy to just under 800 yards and 3 TDs..
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Deuce » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:55 pm

DreadNaught wrote:Cousins is 24-24-1 in his 3 seasons as a full time starting QB, Alex Smith led teams have averaged 10 wins per yer the past 7 seasons he's been a starting QB and consistently has the team he's starting for in the playoffs. So whoever stated Cousins has shown the ability to lead his team in some way Alex Smith has not is making an nonsensical point and is just making the stats argument I referenced earlier.

Say what you want about Alex Smith's limitations (i.e. "game manager", the guy wins football games and an elite rate compared to his peers and has done so for the past 7 seasons on two different teams. It's unfair to not give him some of the credit with that much of a sample size.

I don't see a huge difference between Cousins and Smith as players and believe they are in the same tier when it comes to experience and level of play. Neither are young pups so they pretty much are who they are at this point, thus neither are going to raise a team up based on their individual play. For either to have playoff success they will require an elite roster (like most teams that don't have Brady/Rodgers).

But if I had to choose one for the next 3-4 seasons I'd pick Alex Smith, especially when you factor in he'll cost $7m less per season.


You and bootz are prisoners of the moment. You're assuming the Alex Smith we saw this year is the real Alex Smith, when he's been a different player for his entire career. You say Alex Smith leads his team to a winning record. Kirk Cousins has been in the league for 6 years. In his first 6 years, Alex Smith lead his team to exactly one winning record. And a 12-year vet who is 34 years old with 7 full starting seasons is not in the same place developmentally with a 30-year old, 6-year vet, who has been starting for three seasons.

Do you realize that Alex Smith threw 15 TDs two years ago? 15! This was his first year over 20 TDs and 4,000 yards. Cousins has done that every year as a starter. I'm sorry but someone who throws for 3,500 yards and 15 TDs vs 8 INTs (2016 numbers) is NOT, any way you spin it, the reason his team went 11-4.

Also, Smith is 2-5 in the playoffs. Why is he such a big playoff choker?
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:59 pm

Deuce wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Cousins is 24-24-1 in his 3 seasons as a full time starting QB, Alex Smith led teams have averaged 10 wins per yer the past 7 seasons he's been a starting QB and consistently has the team he's starting for in the playoffs. So whoever stated Cousins has shown the ability to lead his team in some way Alex Smith has not is making an nonsensical point and is just making the stats argument I referenced earlier.

Say what you want about Alex Smith's limitations (i.e. "game manager", the guy wins football games and an elite rate compared to his peers and has done so for the past 7 seasons on two different teams. It's unfair to not give him some of the credit with that much of a sample size.

I don't see a huge difference between Cousins and Smith as players and believe they are in the same tier when it comes to experience and level of play. Neither are young pups so they pretty much are who they are at this point, thus neither are going to raise a team up based on their individual play. For either to have playoff success they will require an elite roster (like most teams that don't have Brady/Rodgers).

But if I had to choose one for the next 3-4 seasons I'd pick Alex Smith, especially when you factor in he'll cost $7m less per season.


You and bootz are prisoners of the moment. You're assuming the Alex Smith we saw this year is the real Alex Smith, when he's been a different player for his entire career. You say Alex Smith leads his team to a winning record. Kirk Cousins has been in the league for 6 years. In his first 6 years, Alex Smith lead his team to exactly one winning record. And a 12-year vet who is 34 years old with 7 full starting seasons is not in the same place developmentally with a 30-year old, 6-year vet, who has been starting for three seasons.

Do you realize that Alex Smith threw 15 TDs two years ago? 15! This was his first year over 20 TDs and 4,000 yards. Cousins has done that every year as a starter. I'm sorry but someone who throws for 3,500 yards and 15 TDs vs 8 INTs (2016 numbers) is NOT, any way you spin it, the reason his team went 11-4.

Also, Smith is 2-5 in the playoffs. Why is he such a big playoff choker?


What's Cousin's playoff record?
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby uscbucsfan » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:03 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Deuce wrote:
You and bootz are prisoners of the moment. You're assuming the Alex Smith we saw this year is the real Alex Smith, when he's been a different player for his entire career. You say Alex Smith leads his team to a winning record. Kirk Cousins has been in the league for 6 years. In his first 6 years, Alex Smith lead his team to exactly one winning record. And a 12-year vet who is 34 years old with 7 full starting seasons is not in the same place developmentally with a 30-year old, 6-year vet, who has been starting for three seasons.

Do you realize that Alex Smith threw 15 TDs two years ago? 15! This was his first year over 20 TDs and 4,000 yards. Cousins has done that every year as a starter. I'm sorry but someone who throws for 3,500 yards and 15 TDs vs 8 INTs (2016 numbers) is NOT, any way you spin it, the reason his team went 11-4.

Also, Smith is 2-5 in the playoffs. Why is he such a big playoff choker?


What's Cousin's playoff record?

There was a team full of Kurt Cousins?

Crazy ****...
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Deuce » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:05 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Deuce wrote:
You and bootz are prisoners of the moment. You're assuming the Alex Smith we saw this year is the real Alex Smith, when he's been a different player for his entire career. You say Alex Smith leads his team to a winning record. Kirk Cousins has been in the league for 6 years. In his first 6 years, Alex Smith lead his team to exactly one winning record. And a 12-year vet who is 34 years old with 7 full starting seasons is not in the same place developmentally with a 30-year old, 6-year vet, who has been starting for three seasons.

Do you realize that Alex Smith threw 15 TDs two years ago? 15! This was his first year over 20 TDs and 4,000 yards. Cousins has done that every year as a starter. I'm sorry but someone who throws for 3,500 yards and 15 TDs vs 8 INTs (2016 numbers) is NOT, any way you spin it, the reason his team went 11-4.

Also, Smith is 2-5 in the playoffs. Why is he such a big playoff choker?


What's Cousin's playoff record?


He's played 1 game and he's 0-1. Way smaller of a sample size than 2-5. What if I told you that Alex Smith lost to the Tennessee Titans in the playoffs this year?
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Re: Alex Smith: Traded

Postby Buc2 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:19 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Deuce wrote:
You and bootz are prisoners of the moment. You're assuming the Alex Smith we saw this year is the real Alex Smith, when he's been a different player for his entire career. You say Alex Smith leads his team to a winning record. Kirk Cousins has been in the league for 6 years. In his first 6 years, Alex Smith lead his team to exactly one winning record. And a 12-year vet who is 34 years old with 7 full starting seasons is not in the same place developmentally with a 30-year old, 6-year vet, who has been starting for three seasons.

Do you realize that Alex Smith threw 15 TDs two years ago? 15! This was his first year over 20 TDs and 4,000 yards. Cousins has done that every year as a starter. I'm sorry but someone who throws for 3,500 yards and 15 TDs vs 8 INTs (2016 numbers) is NOT, any way you spin it, the reason his team went 11-4.

Also, Smith is 2-5 in the playoffs. Why is he such a big playoff choker?


What's Cousin's playoff record?

That was the definition of a "casual" response, *****. :lol:
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