Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby MJW » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:54 am

Deja Entendu wrote:
MJW wrote:Belichick, left to his own devices, starts Jimmy G. and dumps Brady. I have no doubt of this.



You have no doubts that he would dump the greatest QB in history, who just last season lead the greatest comeback in Super Bowl history, and THIS season has lead his team to the number one seed in the AFC with the road to the Super Bowl going through Foxboro (arguably overachieving and being an MVP candidate in the process)?

Meanwhile the other guy was traded away by the guy who, until this completely speculative and "anonymous" report, was understood to have more control over his team than any other single person in the league.

I find it more likely that Bill sees a very small window for both him and Brady to win another Super Bowl (probably this season and next... another after that may even be stretch), and decided that the second round pick would be more valuable to them in that quest since Jimmy G. wouldn't overtake Brady and could end up leaving on his own anyway.

To each their own...


Bill Belichick doesn't have sacred cows. He's dumped valuable veterans throughout his tenure. Guys who were absolutely beloved by Patriots fans and who could still play. Sometimes guys like Lawyer Milloy and Richard Seymour who had 3-4 good years left. He would not have made a decision to squeeze out "one more Superbowl" with Brady because of Brady's legend if he felt he could win 5 more with Jimmy G. That's what makes him Bill Belichick. It was ASTOUNDING to me he dealt Jimmy G away to keep Brady for another year or two. This story, if nothing else, provides the best possible explanation as to why that happened.
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby beardmcdoug » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:59 am

MJW wrote:
Deja Entendu wrote:

You have no doubts that he would dump the greatest QB in history, who just last season lead the greatest comeback in Super Bowl history, and THIS season has lead his team to the number one seed in the AFC with the road to the Super Bowl going through Foxboro (arguably overachieving and being an MVP candidate in the process)?

Meanwhile the other guy was traded away by the guy who, until this completely speculative and "anonymous" report, was understood to have more control over his team than any other single person in the league.

I find it more likely that Bill sees a very small window for both him and Brady to win another Super Bowl (probably this season and next... another after that may even be stretch), and decided that the second round pick would be more valuable to them in that quest since Jimmy G. wouldn't overtake Brady and could end up leaving on his own anyway.

To each their own...


Bill Belichick doesn't have sacred cows. He's dumped valuable veterans throughout his tenure. Guys who were absolutely beloved by Patriots fans and who could still play. Sometimes guys like Lawyer Milloy and Richard Seymour who had 3-4 good years left. He would not have made a decision to squeeze out "one more Superbowl" with Brady because of Brady's legend if he felt he could win 5 more with Jimmy G. That's what makes him Bill Belichick. It was ASTOUNDING to me he dealt Jimmy G away to keep Brady for another year or two. This story, if nothing else, provides the best possible explanation as to why that happened.


Brady isn't just a sacred cow. He's an transcendental omni-bovine. Your theory, despite having legs, does not apply to Tom Brady. And I think BB smart enough to know that.
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:14 am

Brady is the GOAT, but he's 41 and the door will close on his career and when it happens it will happen quick as it does with EVERY SINGLE OLDER PLAYER.

Belichick has always been of the philosophy to get rid of player a year early rather than year late. His track record proves this over and over again.

Brady replacement was ready to step in, Belichick aligned the contracts for the move to take place after this season.

So unless the plan for Belichick all along was to ride Brady until wheels came off and then just retire together, I honestly don't see how any person can objectively think Belichick (given his history) wouldn't have parted ways with Brady and handed the reigns over the JimmyG, thus setting the Patriots up to kick ass for another decade+.

Belichick has never been just about this season or the short term. He has always made moves with best interest of the franchise long term at the forefront.

If the Colts can get rid of Unitas and later Payton Manning, 49ers can trade Montana, why is it difficult to believe the ultimate pragmatist in NFL (Belichick) wouldn't trade away a 41 year QB when his groomed replacement was ready to take over?
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby Deja Entendu » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:45 am

I don't doubt they were grooming him, but the crossroads came sooner than expected. That happened bc Brady continued to perform at the highest level -- it doesn't get any higher than last season's SB win and again being the top QB and team in your conference.

They probably felt they couldn't keep Jimmy on the hook any longer, and preferred to steer his destiny; helping a friend's son, Jimmy G, and their own team in the process.
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby Buc2 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:48 am

Deja Entendu wrote:I don't doubt they were grooming him, but the crossroads came sooner than expected. That happened bc Brady continued to perform at the highest level -- it doesn't get any higher than last season's SB win and again being the top QB and team in your conference.

They probably felt they couldn't keep Jimmy on the hook any longer, and preferred to steer his destiny; helping a friend's son, Jimmy G, and their own team in the process.

But that story won't get clicks.
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby beardmcdoug » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:56 am

DN:

Brady wants to play until he's 45 -- AT LEAST. Even Robert Kraft has publicly said he thinks Brady could play until he's 47. And based on what we're seeing, the dude continues to defy all logic. Everybody's got their opinion about his health regiment, but it's clearly working. Anyways, if Brady plays until he's 45 - Bill will be 70 at that point. I don't see any reason to think they're both not just pushing hard for the next 5 years, squeezing every bit of magic out of this situation, and both riding off into the sunset. If they get another 1 or 2, BB's legacy makes a hard case for GOAT coach.

Imagine if they push Brady out, give the keys to Jimmy G next year, and BB and him don't win a super bowl in the next 5 years (I think Brady has made us forget just how hard getting to even one is), then you have a 70 year old coach who mistakenly slayed the golden goose 5 years before he's said he was done laying golden eggs - and then all the talk about "Brady definitively MADE BB, not the otherway around, as evidence of his lack of success with Jimmy G". There's far greater risk in that direction than in just keeping at it with Brady, IMO
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:07 am

Brady may want to play till 45 or whatever, but it isn't up to him. I'd don't care how many vegetables or pints of avocado ice cream he eats, or hours of pilates he does.

I'm not saying I believe the ESPN article 100%, but I do think there is atleast some truth in parts of it and as MJW stated, left to his own devices that Belichick would've certainly moved on from Brady. I think that is exactly who Belichick is. That said, I certainly acknowledge that it's just as likely that Belichick just wants ride this Brady train until the rides over and chase rings in the short term.
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby Buc2 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:21 am

It's not rocket science.

The Patriots drafted JG in 2014 to groom him to be TB's replacement. At the time, they probably figured TB wasn't long for world in NFL terms. No one, not even BB, saw Brady being able to play at this level 4 seasons after that draft...and still showing little sign of slowing down. So why would you keep JG at this point? Especially considering that after this season, JG would be an UFA. You think he's going to re-sign as a backup? Of course not. No one in his shoes would. So the Pats did what the Pats do. They traded him for a decent draft pick before his trade value became zero at the end of next season. This April, they will draft another QB prospect and start the process all over again.

To look for all these nefarious reasons why the Pats did what they did is foolish.

It's not rocket science.
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby mightyleemoon » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:21 am

I wouldn't blink if we find out both Brady and BB wouldn't mind the separation in order to prove they didn't need each other to get to where they are.
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby MJW » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:11 pm

DreadNaught wrote:Brady is the GOAT, but he's 41 and the door will close on his career and when it happens it will happen quick as it does with EVERY SINGLE OLDER PLAYER.

Belichick has always been of the philosophy to get rid of player a year early rather than year late. His track record proves this over and over again.

Brady replacement was ready to step in, Belichick aligned the contracts for the move to take place after this season.

So unless the plan for Belichick all along was to ride Brady until wheels came off and then just retire together, I honestly don't see how any person can objectively think Belichick (given his history) wouldn't have parted ways with Brady and handed the reigns over the JimmyG, thus setting the Patriots up to kick ass for another decade+.

Belichick has never been just about this season or the short term. He has always made moves with best interest of the franchise long term at the forefront.

If the Colts can get rid of Unitas and later Payton Manning, 49ers can trade Montana, why is it difficult to believe the ultimate pragmatist in NFL (Belichick) wouldn't trade away a 41 year QB when his groomed replacement was ready to take over?


Great reply. And what you're describing is EXACTLY how Belichick does business. It's tough to accept, but Tom Brady is NOT special when it comes to their process. He's another cog. A cog who, btw, who WILL hit a wall hard, and it won't be at age 45.

The Montana/Young reference is great too. This is EXACTLY where the 49ers found themselves when they traded Joe Montana to the Chiefs. Montana was every bit as legendary in San Fran as Brady was in New England. They had a guy seven years young (15 in Jimmy G's case) who they saw everyday and knew was a franchise QB. So they bit the bullet. The 49er run ends in '93 or '94 instead of 1999 (and the '94 title never happens) if they deal Young because Montana is just too legendary to move on from.
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby Deja Entendu » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:41 pm

The Montana/Young reference isn't really that great. Montana missed almost two full seasons due to injury before they traded him.

I love Young, and actually always preferred him to Montana when I was a kid, but playing devil's advocate: who is to say they wouldn't have won in 1994 with Joe and their new toy in Deion? Maybe they even beat the Cowboys in 92 and or 93 with him. Young pretty much cost them the game in 92, and Montana did lead the Chiefs to the AFC Championship in 93.

Anyway who knows, but the point remains: they aren't that similar of situations.
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:17 am

MJW wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Brady is the GOAT, but he's 41 and the door will close on his career and when it happens it will happen quick as it does with EVERY SINGLE OLDER PLAYER.

Belichick has always been of the philosophy to get rid of player a year early rather than year late. His track record proves this over and over again.

Brady replacement was ready to step in, Belichick aligned the contracts for the move to take place after this season.

So unless the plan for Belichick all along was to ride Brady until wheels came off and then just retire together, I honestly don't see how any person can objectively think Belichick (given his history) wouldn't have parted ways with Brady and handed the reigns over the JimmyG, thus setting the Patriots up to kick ass for another decade+.

Belichick has never been just about this season or the short term. He has always made moves with best interest of the franchise long term at the forefront.

If the Colts can get rid of Unitas and later Payton Manning, 49ers can trade Montana, why is it difficult to believe the ultimate pragmatist in NFL (Belichick) wouldn't trade away a 41 year QB when his groomed replacement was ready to take over?


Great reply. And what you're describing is EXACTLY how Belichick does business. It's tough to accept, but Tom Brady is NOT special when it comes to their process. He's another cog. A cog who, btw, who WILL hit a wall hard, and it won't be at age 45.

The Montana/Young reference is great too. This is EXACTLY where the 49ers found themselves when they traded Joe Montana to the Chiefs. Montana was every bit as legendary in San Fran as Brady was in New England. They had a guy seven years young (15 in Jimmy G's case) who they saw everyday and knew was a franchise QB. So they bit the bullet. The 49er run ends in '93 or '94 instead of 1999 (and the '94 title never happens) if they deal Young because Montana is just too legendary to move on from.


LOL
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:33 pm

A haiku:

Brady is an ass
Drama is for ugly chicks
I don't give a ****
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby MJW » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:33 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:
MJW wrote:
Great reply. And what you're describing is EXACTLY how Belichick does business. It's tough to accept, but Tom Brady is NOT special when it comes to their process. He's another cog. A cog who, btw, who WILL hit a wall hard, and it won't be at age 45.

The Montana/Young reference is great too. This is EXACTLY where the 49ers found themselves when they traded Joe Montana to the Chiefs. Montana was every bit as legendary in San Fran as Brady was in New England. They had a guy seven years young (15 in Jimmy G's case) who they saw everyday and knew was a franchise QB. So they bit the bullet. The 49er run ends in '93 or '94 instead of 1999 (and the '94 title never happens) if they deal Young because Montana is just too legendary to move on from.


LOL


The point is, if you think Belichick would willingly cling to a declining Brady out of respect for his legacy, for as long as he wants to play and at the expense of the future of the Patriots, you haven't been paying attention.
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby Doctor » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:14 am

MJW wrote:Belichick, left to his own devices, starts Jimmy G. and dumps Brady. I have no doubt of this.

Yup. At the end of the day Brady is the tool, BB is the artist. Tools wear. BB can coach for another 20 years if he wants. Brady, obvious, cannot play for another 20 years.
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby Doctor » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:15 am

Not to mention they both have huge egos (rightfully earned) whose legacy's always get somewhat credited to the other. I bet both would love a chance to show they can be Kobe without Shaq and vise versa.
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby beardmcdoug » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:27 am

Doctor wrote:
MJW wrote:Belichick, left to his own devices, starts Jimmy G. and dumps Brady. I have no doubt of this.

Yup. At the end of the day Brady is the tool, BB is the artist. Tools wear. BB can coach for another 20 years if he wants. Brady, obvious, cannot play for another 20 years.


'til he's 85 huh...
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby RedLeader » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:19 am

They do say 85 is the new 80.
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby Deja Entendu » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:25 am

MJW wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:
LOL


The point is, if you think Belichick would willingly cling to a declining Brady out of respect for his legacy, for as long as he wants to play and at the expense of the future of the Patriots, you haven't been paying attention.


I don't think anyone is arguing that he would do that. The point is that not one person watching Brady last season, this season, or this past Sunday looked at him and thought "That is a QB on the decline."

His age, of course, indicates it's only a matter of time, but his play doesn't point to that time being RIGHT now, and that is when the decision on Jimmy G had to be made.

No doubt if Brady had missed two seasons with an injury, and Jimmy G had an MVP season on his own ala Montana/Young, Bill would have dumped him like a hot potato. That isn't the case... quite the opposite, actually.
Last edited by Deja Entendu on Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby Deja Entendu » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:26 am

I feel the horse is dead though. People have chosen their stance. Much like the Great Brate Debate of 1-8.
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby Doctor » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:28 am

beardmcdoug wrote:
Doctor wrote:Yup. At the end of the day Brady is the tool, BB is the artist. Tools wear. BB can coach for another 20 years if he wants. Brady, obvious, cannot play for another 20 years.


'til he's 85 huh...

If he wants to, sure. Who's going to stop him? Doesn't Kansas State have like an 80 year coach? I hear that TB12 program keeps you young, maybe he can get on that. lol
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Re: Why Is There Not A Thread About This Yet?

Postby Doctor » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:34 am

Deja Entendu wrote:
MJW wrote:
The point is, if you think Belichick would willingly cling to a declining Brady out of respect for his legacy, for as long as he wants to play and at the expense of the future of the Patriots, you haven't been paying attention.


I don't anyone is arguing that he would do that. The point is that not one watching Brady last season, this season, or this past Sunday looked at him and thought "That is a QB on the decline."

His age of course indicates, it's only a matter of time, but his play doesn't point to that time being RIGHT now, and that is when the decision on Jimmy G had to be made.

No doubt if Brady had missed two seasons with an injury, and Jimmy G had an MVP season on his own ala Montana/Young, Bill would have dumped him like a hot potato. That isn't the case... quite the opposite, actually.


Bingo. Brady hasn't had a Manning (or even Brees) like year yet. He's still playing at the highest level. Pats still win or lose on his arm. And even if he does decline, who knows how many game manager years he can go for.
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