***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Buc2 » Fri May 04, 2018 1:14 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Swashy wrote:
I'm gonna put the ball in your court and have you explain to me how a 4th year pro in Winston who still cannot hit Mike Evans in stride on the regular, throws balls into double coverage when better plays is available, eats sack and throws the ball up when he's going down is better than them and why said 4th yer pro is worth as much -if not more than them. I'm not saying the latter 3 are perfect but they are capable of fundamental QB play whereas Winston is capable of a few phenomenal moments.


Subjectively pointing out specific flaws doesn't make your argument valid. Actually it highlights the fact that you have an agenda. Each flaw you pointed out is not exclusively to Winston nor are they the norm for him. You want to talk about can't hit guys in stride? Carr and Jimmy G are worse than Winston in that aspect. Jimmy G especially. He does not throw with great anticipation unlike Jameis who does.

Throws into double coverage? If you tell me you can name 1 QB that never does that I'll call you a liar.

Eats sacks? That's not a bad thing. Live to play another down. Better than trying to be a hero and make something out of nothing. I'm guessing you hate the way Brady plays. When he feels any pressure he just falls.

Throws the ball up when he's going down? That's happened like twice, kyddo.

You've literally said nothing of substance as to why Winston isn't worth top money. Again like I said you're a wreck. You get too emotional and you rarely think logically, clearly, rationally. You're always proven 100% wrong and this time will be no different.

He does the same in the Lightning thread on occasion as well. Some folks are just more high strung than others. No biggie.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby sonofg » Fri May 04, 2018 1:52 pm

Swashy wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
LMFAO!! Good thing you're a delusional, over emotional wreck. $20-$25mil tops? Derek Carr, Jimmy G, Kirk Cousins all say hi. Tell me all 3 of those guys are better than Jameis.


I'm gonna put the ball in your court and have you explain to me how a 4th year pro in Winston who still cannot hit Mike Evans in stride on the regular, throws balls into double coverage when better plays is available, eats sack and throws the ball up when he's going down is better than them and why said 4th yer pro is worth as much -if not more than them. I'm not saying the latter 3 are perfect but they are capable of fundamental QB play whereas Winston is capable of a few phenomenal moments.


Pretty much this. It feels like the emperor's new clothes. Three years in, he's lacking in almost all the most important traits (decision making, accuracy, poise), despite being "the most pro-ready QB since forever", yet almost everyone keeps praising him as a franchise guy. What am I not seeing? I'm talking about actual skillset and abilities, not empty stats.

College to pro projections are wrong all the time. Why is it unfathomable that pro Winston is just not what he was sold as?
I'm not a fan of Cousins, but Garoppolo showed more in a few starts (and wins) than Winston has in 3 years. I don't think there's a GM who would take Winston over Garoppolo right now. Before breaking his leg, Derek Carr was in the MVP conversation. He has shown a much higher peak than Winston. Guys like Stafford have shown the ability to take over games, win shootouts when the defense is bad, look like the best guy on the field.

I'll get **** for this, but it is what it is. I'm not a believer. I think we'll see the same Winston in 2018 as we did the last few years. Perhaps marginal statistical improvements, but no actual improvement in play. I hope I'm wrong. I don't give a **** about told-you-so's, I sit up at night watching live games in Norway. I want the Bucs to be good!

For the record, I don't doubt that Winston will be extended, I just agree with the few guys here who are saying it might not be the right call considering what he has shown so far. People keep calling for Jackson to be traded. When a WR consistently gets separation and the QB can't connect, you don't need a new WR...

Edit: I'm not talking about money (the market is what the market is), just the general sentiment of going all in on the guy
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri May 04, 2018 2:03 pm

sonofg wrote:
Swashy wrote:
I'm gonna put the ball in your court and have you explain to me how a 4th year pro in Winston who still cannot hit Mike Evans in stride on the regular, throws balls into double coverage when better plays is available, eats sack and throws the ball up when he's going down is better than them and why said 4th yer pro is worth as much -if not more than them. I'm not saying the latter 3 are perfect but they are capable of fundamental QB play whereas Winston is capable of a few phenomenal moments.


Pretty much this. It feels like the emperor's new clothes. Three years in, he's lacking in almost all the most important traits (decision making, accuracy, poise), despite being "the most pro-ready QB since forever", yet almost everyone keeps praising him as a franchise guy. What am I not seeing? I'm talking about actual skillset and abilities, not empty stats.

College to pro projections are wrong all the time. Why is it unfathomable that pro Winston is just not what he was sold as?
I'm not a fan of Cousins, but Garoppolo showed more in a few starts (and wins) than Winston has in 3 years. I don't think there's a GM who would take Winston over Garoppolo right now. Before breaking his leg, Derek Carr was in the MVP conversation. He has shown a much higher peak than Winston. Guys like Stafford have shown the ability to take over games, win shootouts when the defense is bad, look like the best guy on the field.

I'll get **** for this, but it is what it is. I'm not a believer. I think we'll see the same Winston in 2018 as we did the last few years. Perhaps marginal statistical improvements, but no actual improvement in play. I hope I'm wrong. I don't give a **** about told-you-so's, I sit up at night watching live games in Norway. I want the Bucs to be good!

For the record, I don't doubt that Winston will be extended, I just agree with the few guys here who are saying it might not be the right call considering what he has shown so far. People keep calling for Jackson to be traded. When a WR consistently gets separation and the QB can't connect, you don't need a new WR...

Edit: I'm not talking about money (the market is what the market is), just the general sentiment of going all in on the guy


Confirms to me you've never seen Jimmy G play. He throws into double coverage a ton. He also doesn't always give his receivers chances to make plays down the field. He won't be a numbers guy. Meaning he won't put up the big numbers that top QBs do because he doesn't have good anticipation on throws and doesn't always throw guys open. If the Niners don't win a lot it won't be a good look on him.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Deuce » Fri May 04, 2018 2:24 pm

sonofg wrote:
Swashy wrote:
I'm gonna put the ball in your court and have you explain to me how a 4th year pro in Winston who still cannot hit Mike Evans in stride on the regular, throws balls into double coverage when better plays is available, eats sack and throws the ball up when he's going down is better than them and why said 4th yer pro is worth as much -if not more than them. I'm not saying the latter 3 are perfect but they are capable of fundamental QB play whereas Winston is capable of a few phenomenal moments.


Pretty much this. It feels like the emperor's new clothes. Three years in, he's lacking in almost all the most important traits (decision making, accuracy, poise), despite being "the most pro-ready QB since forever", yet almost everyone keeps praising him as a franchise guy. What am I not seeing? I'm talking about actual skillset and abilities, not empty stats.

College to pro projections are wrong all the time. Why is it unfathomable that pro Winston is just not what he was sold as?
I'm not a fan of Cousins, but Garoppolo showed more in a few starts (and wins) than Winston has in 3 years. I don't think there's a GM who would take Winston over Garoppolo right now. Before breaking his leg, Derek Carr was in the MVP conversation. He has shown a much higher peak than Winston. Guys like Stafford have shown the ability to take over games, win shootouts when the defense is bad, look like the best guy on the field.

I'll get **** for this, but it is what it is. I'm not a believer. I think we'll see the same Winston in 2018 as we did the last few years. Perhaps marginal statistical improvements, but no actual improvement in play. I hope I'm wrong. I don't give a **** about told-you-so's, I sit up at night watching live games in Norway. I want the Bucs to be good!

For the record, I don't doubt that Winston will be extended, I just agree with the few guys here who are saying it might not be the right call considering what he has shown so far. People keep calling for Jackson to be traded. When a WR consistently gets separation and the QB can't connect, you don't need a new WR...

Edit: I'm not talking about money (the market is what the market is), just the general sentiment of going all in on the guy


You aren't exactly wrong in your assessment of Winston. The problem is, these things don't always work in a linear fashion like we'd prefer. For whatever reason, some QBs can have a great rookie, second or third season. That doesn't always guarantee future success. Like you said, Derek Carr was in the MVP conversation two years ago. Last season, he took a step back. I hate to mention the name, but look at Josh Freeman. Dak Prescott, too. For other guys, like Winston and Mariota, we have to settle for stretches of a few games where they looked like a franchise QB. QBs are saddled with more to learn and more responsibility than any other position in pro sports, so they hit their peak further into their careers.

Now, the other part of it is this. Even if Winston never improves, he's somewhere between like the 12th and 17th best QB in the league. And NFL teams are so terrified of falling back into the QB carousel that they'll stick with anyone who shows any sign of becoming a franchise guy. Look at Andy Dalton.

So, basically, we're stuck with Winston for the foreseeable future whether he improves or not. He'll get a big contract, too. Our team is relying pretty heavily on the notion that he'll improve in the next few years, which I believe he will. It's scary, but is it scarier than say...drafting Josh Rosen at 7 this year and having to wait 4 years to make a decision on him?
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby DreadNaught » Fri May 04, 2018 2:30 pm

Winston's accuracy has constantly improved year by year according to his completion %, and since he's been in the same offensive system that is fair metric to use.

I think his poise is good if we're talking about pocket presence. If we're taking after the whistle I'd say he's improved there and has more work to do.

Decision making is a constantly evolving process for NFL QBs. Jameis certainly needs to continue to improve there and that is a valid ciriticism. We can't have the bonehead turnovers he makes b/c he's trying to be Superman. He needs to learn an incomplete pass or even a sack is the best you can do on a certain play and to live to play another down without hurting your team.

He's still only 24yrs old, so lets not forget that.

Our offense was terrible in the RZ last season (partly due to a terrible run game), but were among the best at getting first downs and sustaining drives. Given time in the pocket I have every confidence Jameis can consistently deliver the ball and move the offense and I think he's shown that when healthy.

A better rushing attack and defense that allows our offense not to play from behind could have a force multiplier effect on Winston's performance.

I just feel the arrow is pointing up w/ Jameis and he's getting better each year. He may not be the QB some thought he should be at this point, but that doesn't mean he won't be. I honestly can't think of a QB outside of Marino that peaked as early as some here are expecting Jameis to. Football is a team game and the surrounding parts matter despite the value of the QB position. No 24yr old QB is going to reach their potential with defense as bad as ours was last season coupled with an ineffective run game. Wilson, BigBen, even Brady all had good defenses and good rushing attacks early in their careers to nurture their development
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby theBKwhopper » Fri May 04, 2018 2:39 pm

DreadNaught wrote:Winston's accuracy has constantly improved year by year according to his completion %, and since he's been in the same offensive system that is fair metric to use.

I think his poise is good if we're talking about pocket presence. If we're taking after the whistle I'd say he's improved there and has more work to do.

Decision making is a constantly evolving process for NFL QBs. Jameis certainly needs to continue to improve there and that is a valid ciriticism. We can't have the bonehead turnovers he makes b/c he's trying to be Superman. He needs to learn an incomplete pass or even a sack is the best you can do on a certain play and to live to play another down without hurting your team.

He's still only 24yrs old, so lets not forget that.

Our offense was terrible in the RZ last season (partly due to a terrible run game), but were among the best at getting first downs and sustaining drives. Given time in the pocket I have every confidence Jameis can consistently deliver the ball and move the offense and I think he's shown that when healthy.

A better rushing attack and defense that allows our offense not to play from behind could have a force multiplier effect on Winston's performance.

I just feel the arrow is pointing up w/ Jameis and he's getting better each year. He may not be the QB some thought he should be at this point, but that doesn't mean he won't be. I honestly can't think of a QB outside of Marino that peaked as early as some here are expecting Jameis to. Football is a team game and the surrounding parts matter despite the value of the QB position. No 24yr old QB is going to reach their potential with defense as bad as ours was last season coupled with an ineffective run game. Wilson, BigBen, even Brady all had good defenses and good rushing attacks early in their careers to nurture their development

Amen brother
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri May 04, 2018 2:41 pm

I think many of you would be best served actually watching the NFL before you attempt to come up with an analysis of comparing Winston to other QBs. Honestly this is some of the dumbest stuff I've ever read here. Name me a QB that doesn't make bone-headed turnovers. You can't. Name me a QB that never tries to do too much at times. You can't. Name me a QB who doesn't make inaccurate throws. You can't. Wanna know what made Derek Carr so great in 2016? He got top notch QB play. In 2017 he didn't and as a result his play suffered more visably. But Derek Carr in 2016 and 2017 were 1 in the same. He's very inaccurate. Does a horrible job of reading defenses and makes bad decisions a lot. But most of you would never know it.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri May 04, 2018 2:43 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:I think many of you would be best served actually watching the NFL before you attempt to come up with an analysis of comparing Winston to other QBs. Honestly this is some of the dumbest stuff I've ever read here. Name me a QB that doesn't make bone-headed turnovers. You can't. Name me a QB that never tries to do too much at times. You can't. Name me a QB who doesn't make inaccurate throws. You can't. Wanna know what made Derek Carr so great in 2016? He got top notch QB play. In 2017 he didn't and as a result his play suffered more visably. But Derek Carr in 2016 and 2017 were 1 in the same. He's very inaccurate. Does a horrible job of reading defenses and makes bad decisions a lot. But most of you would never know it.

I think you mean O-line play.

Also, Amari Cooper dropped more balls last year than normal, which is already pretty high.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Nano » Fri May 04, 2018 2:44 pm

NFL Update @MySportsUpdate
#Raiders entered free agency with 4 players on their roster over the age of 29.

Since, Reggie McKenzie and Jon Gruden have added another 13 players age 29+.


It has begun
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri May 04, 2018 2:45 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:I think many of you would be best served actually watching the NFL before you attempt to come up with an analysis of comparing Winston to other QBs. Honestly this is some of the dumbest stuff I've ever read here. Name me a QB that doesn't make bone-headed turnovers. You can't. Name me a QB that never tries to do too much at times. You can't. Name me a QB who doesn't make inaccurate throws. You can't. Wanna know what made Derek Carr so great in 2016? He got top notch QB play. In 2017 he didn't and as a result his play suffered more visably. But Derek Carr in 2016 and 2017 were 1 in the same. He's very inaccurate. Does a horrible job of reading defenses and makes bad decisions a lot. But most of you would never know it.

I think you mean O-line play.

Also, Amari Cooper dropped more balls last year than normal, which is already pretty high.


Amari Cooper= WR. But it wasn't just him. Crabtree fell off. Roberts came back to earth as well. They weren't making the plays they made in 2016 with the ball in their hands.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri May 04, 2018 2:46 pm

Nano wrote:
NFL Update @MySportsUpdate
#Raiders entered free agency with 4 players on their roster over the age of 29.

Since, Reggie McKenzie and Jon Gruden have added another 13 players age 29+.


It has begun


Jesus. Like how is that even possible?
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri May 04, 2018 2:47 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:I think you mean O-line play.

Also, Amari Cooper dropped more balls last year than normal, which is already pretty high.


Amari Cooper= WR. But it wasn't just him. Crabtree fell off. Roberts came back to earth as well. They weren't making the plays they made in 2016 with the ball in their hands.


Re-read your post that I quoted. Did you mean WR play or Oline play? The Raiders oline struggled heavily last year compared to 2016, that's why I assumed you meant Oline play when you said QB play.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri May 04, 2018 2:48 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Amari Cooper= WR. But it wasn't just him. Crabtree fell off. Roberts came back to earth as well. They weren't making the plays they made in 2016 with the ball in their hands.


Re-read your post that I quoted. Did you mean WR play or Oline play? The Raiders oline struggled heavily last year compared to 2016, that's why I assumed you meant Oline play when you said QB play.


I meant top notch WR play. My bad.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri May 04, 2018 2:51 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
Re-read your post that I quoted. Did you mean WR play or Oline play? The Raiders oline struggled heavily last year compared to 2016, that's why I assumed you meant Oline play when you said QB play.


I meant top notch WR play. My bad.


It's cool. I agree. Also, their Oline was the best in the league that year. I agree that Carr was mostly the same QB both years.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Hatter » Fri May 04, 2018 2:59 pm

I really am happy we dodged the Gruden bullet.

There was a moment when I wanted him but so glad it didn't happen.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri May 04, 2018 3:02 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
I meant top notch WR play. My bad.


It's cool. I agree. Also, their Oline was the best in the league that year. I agree that Carr was mostly the same QB both years.


He really benefited from lucky bounces, dropped INTs, come from behind wins in 2016. His playmakers made a ton of plays after the catch that they didnt make in 2017.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby sonofg » Fri May 04, 2018 3:22 pm

Of course all QBs make mistakes, turnovers, bad decisions, inaccurate throws. It's just the frequency and situations in which Winston does it. I'm not buying for a second that he is league average at that.
And of course the surroundings matter, but the narrative that he has horrible working conditions while other young QBs who achieve success do so mostly because of their great working conditions is too easy.

Hopefully he'll improve, but I still think his lack of accuracy (actual accuracy, ball placement, not completion percentage) is a severe limitation, which might never improve.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri May 04, 2018 3:27 pm

sonofg wrote:Of course all QBs make mistakes, turnovers, bad decisions, inaccurate throws. It's just the frequency and situations in which Winston does it. I'm not buying for a second that he is league average at that.
And of course the surroundings matter, but the narrative that he has horrible working conditions while other young QBs who achieve success do so mostly because of their great working conditions is too easy.

Hopefully he'll improve, but I still think his lack of accuracy (actual accuracy, ball placement, not completion percentage) is a severe limitation, which might never improve.


Quite honestly he's above league average in all of those aspects. Saying anything otherwise shows clear bias and a lack of knowledge about what you speak. It's obvious you don't watch football outside of this team.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby sonofg » Fri May 04, 2018 3:32 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
sonofg wrote:Of course all QBs make mistakes, turnovers, bad decisions, inaccurate throws. It's just the frequency and situations in which Winston does it. I'm not buying for a second that he is league average at that.
And of course the surroundings matter, but the narrative that he has horrible working conditions while other young QBs who achieve success do so mostly because of their great working conditions is too easy.

Hopefully he'll improve, but I still think his lack of accuracy (actual accuracy, ball placement, not completion percentage) is a severe limitation, which might never improve.


Quite honestly he's above league average in all of those aspects. Saying anything otherwise shows clear bias and a lack of knowledge about what you speak. It's obvious you don't watch football outside of this team.


Are you saying that Winston is better than league-average with regard to turnovers and bad decisions?
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri May 04, 2018 3:33 pm

sonofg wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Quite honestly he's above league average in all of those aspects. Saying anything otherwise shows clear bias and a lack of knowledge about what you speak. It's obvious you don't watch football outside of this team.


Are you saying that Winston is better than league-average with regard to turnovers and bad decisions?


Or you're cherry picking. I'll do the same.

Yes he is. If you can quantify JUST bad decisions I'll be more than happy to discuss.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby sonofg » Fri May 04, 2018 3:39 pm

Also, sorry for derailing the general thread. We have enough Winston discussions, don't mean to drag it out here.

Instead of being so condescending, I would genuinely appreaciate it if someone would educate me on how Winston's skill set is conducive to sustainable winning. (I think he could get the Bucs to the playoffs and get hot like Flacco did, but I can't really see consistent contender)
Judging by the replies here, clearly there is something I'm missing
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Phantom Phenom » Fri May 04, 2018 3:42 pm

Source: Former Chiefs LB Derrick Johnson to join division rival Raiders
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby sonofg » Fri May 04, 2018 3:48 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
sonofg wrote:
Are you saying that Winston is better than league-average with regard to turnovers and bad decisions?


Or you're cherry picking. I'll do the same.

Yes he is. If you can quantify JUST bad decisions I'll be more than happy to discuss.


How is that cherry picking? You said he was "in all of those aspects", so I assumed it wouldn't matter which ones I chose. I've seen this story before, and I'm not playing this game you're setting up.
Anyway, we both know neither of us can quantify bad decisions, so we're left with the feeling we get when watching the games (goes for both Winston and other QBs). This will go nowhere, and I'm happy to let it lie.

But as in my previous post, I would absolutely like to be convinced on Winston, since it would give me a much more positive outlook on the seasons ahead!
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Cheb » Fri May 04, 2018 4:05 pm

Winston isn't perfect. I know I'm not alone when I say that I have had my frustrations with his play. That said, the Bucs would be fools if they don't pay him his due, which these days probably means a record-breaking contract.

Is he worth it? Maybe not. But he's young and he's still learning, and if you don't have a quarterback in this league you don't have nothing.

Pay the man.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby theBKwhopper » Fri May 04, 2018 4:34 pm

Cheb wrote:Winston isn't perfect. I know I'm not alone when I say that I have had my frustrations with his play. That said, the Bucs would be fools if they don't pay him his due, which these days probably means a record-breaking contract.

Is he worth it? Maybe not. But he's young and he's still learning, and if you don't have a quarterback in this league you don't have nothing.

Pay the man.

This sums it up. I'm not even sure how this debate has lasted so long.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby theBKwhopper » Fri May 04, 2018 4:52 pm

Nano wrote:
NFL Update @MySportsUpdate
#Raiders entered free agency with 4 players on their roster over the age of 29.

Since, Reggie McKenzie and Jon Gruden have added another 13 players age 29+.


It has begun

That's pretty bizarre. But, I actually loved what they did in the draft. Especially if Hurst pans out. Their trenches will be outstanding.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Heidguy » Fri May 04, 2018 5:09 pm

Cheb wrote:Winston isn't perfect. I know I'm not alone when I say that I have had my frustrations with his play. That said, the Bucs would be fools if they don't pay him his due, which these days probably means a record-breaking contract.

Is he worth it? Maybe not. But he's young and he's still learning, and if you don't have a quarterback in this league you don't have nothing.

Pay the man.


This! Period. End of story.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Hatter » Fri May 04, 2018 5:16 pm

theBKwhopper wrote:
Nano wrote:
It has begun

That's pretty bizarre. But, I actually loved what they did in the draft. Especially if Hurst pans out. Their trenches will be outstanding.


I like PJ Hall but they took him a bit early IMO. I hope Hurst pans out, he is a beast just hope he stays healthy. Arden Key could be great but
the rest of the draft was meh to me, specially their 1st rounder which floored me.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby theBKwhopper » Fri May 04, 2018 5:20 pm

Hatter wrote:
theBKwhopper wrote:That's pretty bizarre. But, I actually loved what they did in the draft. Especially if Hurst pans out. Their trenches will be outstanding.


I like PJ Hall but they took him a bit early IMO. I hope Hurst pans out, he is a beast just hope he stays healthy. Arden Key could be great but
the rest of the draft was meh to me, specially their 1st rounder which floored me.

It wasn't a sexy pick. But, it's still the best way to build your team through the draft. Start with the trenches.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Hatter » Fri May 04, 2018 5:40 pm

theBKwhopper wrote:
Hatter wrote:
I like PJ Hall but they took him a bit early IMO. I hope Hurst pans out, he is a beast just hope he stays healthy. Arden Key could be great but
the rest of the draft was meh to me, specially their 1st rounder which floored me.

It wasn't a sexy pick. But, it's still the best way to build your team through the draft. Start with the trenches.


I love the trenches, I wanted Nelson and love Vita. I just think Kolton Miller is way overrated. I think it was Daniel Jeremiah that said he was the reason Rosen got knocked around so much.
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