***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby The Outsider » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:15 pm

Cheb wrote:
NYBF wrote:Looks like Edelman's suspension is for an unrecognizable substance. This is some textbook Herr Goodell bullshit.


I'm curious as to how one could test positive for an unknown substance.



Easy, they analyze the panel. Something comes up that is unidentifiable. They shout, "Oh my God! That substance is unidentifiable!" This is then reported to Goodell who promptly suspends the player.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:41 pm

NYBF wrote:Looks like Edelman's suspension is for an unrecognizable substance. This is some textbook Herr Goodell bullshit.


I know you have a strong dislike for Goodell, but this is an area I have zero sympathy for the players.

Every player and team is given a list of substances and products that are ok'd by the league. Players can always ask one of the team trainers if a product/substance is ok before consuming it. There are NO rules about players contacting trainers at any point in the offseason.

Players are responsible for what they consume.

If this unknown substance is proven not to be a PED or masking agent then the appeals process will overturn it.

The drug policy is part of the CBA and thus the players know the deal. This isn't like the Personal Conduct Policy where Goodell has a lot of unilateral power to suspend.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby NYBF » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:57 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
NYBF wrote:Looks like Edelman's suspension is for an unrecognizable substance. This is some textbook Herr Goodell bullshit.


I know you have a strong dislike for Goodell, but this is an area I have zero sympathy for the players.

Every player and team is given a list of substances and products that are ok'd by the league. Players can always ask one of the team trainers if a product/substance is ok before consuming it. There are NO rules about players contacting trainers at any point in the offseason.

Players are responsible for what they consume.

If this unknown substance is proven not to be a PED or masking agent then the appeals process will overturn it.

The drug policy is part of the CBA and thus the players know the deal. This isn't like the Personal Conduct Policy where Goodell has a lot of unilateral power to suspend.


You sure they get a list of products that are ok? Seems like that would be endless. The CBA outlines a number of substances that are banned. How can you ban something if you don't know what it is? How do you prove that something they cannot identify is not a PED or masking agent?
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:16 am

NYBF wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
I know you have a strong dislike for Goodell, but this is an area I have zero sympathy for the players.

Every player and team is given a list of substances and products that are ok'd by the league. Players can always ask one of the team trainers if a product/substance is ok before consuming it. There are NO rules about players contacting trainers at any point in the offseason.

Players are responsible for what they consume.

If this unknown substance is proven not to be a PED or masking agent then the appeals process will overturn it.

The drug policy is part of the CBA and thus the players know the deal. This isn't like the Personal Conduct Policy where Goodell has a lot of unilateral power to suspend.


You sure they get a list of products that are ok? Seems like that would be endless. The CBA outlines a number of substances that are banned. How can you ban something if you don't know what it is? How do you prove that something they cannot identify is not a PED or masking agent?


There is certainly a list of approved supplements and also a list of banned substances. The list of approved supplements is pretty expansive I'd imagine.

At the end of the day players are responsible for what enters their body and if they want to risk taking something not on the approved list and NOT first verifying the risk by contacting the team trainer before consuming it then that is on them.

The nature of PEDs is that the substances will always be ahead of the testing procedures that detect them. That is why there is an approved list to guide players on what supplements are ok. But as long as athletic competition exists there will be new substances created. The lists of banned and approved substances is constantly expanding as the testing looks to keep pace with those trying to circumvent it.

At best Edleman took a supplement he thought was ok b/c he bought it over the counter and was just ignorant. At worst he was trying to game the system as most people looking for an edge do.

Either way, the drug and PED policy is already specifically spelled out in the negotiated CBA between the players and league. Goodell doesn't have the discretion when it comes to PEDs/Drugs that he does with personal conduct.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby NYBF » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:38 am

So you're assuming it's a supplement of some sort? Being that they cannot identify it, how do you make that assumption?
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Buc2 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:39 am

NYBF wrote:So you're assuming it's a supplement of some sort? Being that they cannot identify it, how do you make that assumption?

Guilty until proven innocent. duh
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby MJW » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:47 am

Boxing has a problem right now with Mexican beef. Apparently something about what the cows eat, or the steroids they're given, has caused a lot of Mexican fighters to fail drugs tests when they consume it. The sanctioning bodies have acknowledged that this is happening, too, but they can't find a test to work around it. The thing is, most fighters eat a lot of meat, and there are a ton of Mexican fighters who can't afford to have it imported.

The point (besides that it's interesting) is that it isn't always as simple as a 1980s steroid PSA when a guy fails a test.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:57 am

MJW wrote:Boxing has a problem right now with Mexican beef. Apparently something about what the cows eat, or the steroids they're given, has caused a lot of Mexican fighters to fail drugs tests when they consume it. The sanctioning bodies have acknowledged that this is happening, too, but they can't find a test to work around it. The thing is, most fighters eat a lot of meat, and there are a ton of Mexican fighters who can't afford to have it imported.

The point (besides that it's interesting) is that it isn't always as simple as a 1980s steroid PSA when a guy fails a test.


MJ, what the heck do you think America is eating?
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:01 am

mdb1958 wrote:
MJW wrote:Boxing has a problem right now with Mexican beef. Apparently something about what the cows eat, or the steroids they're given, has caused a lot of Mexican fighters to fail drugs tests when they consume it. The sanctioning bodies have acknowledged that this is happening, too, but they can't find a test to work around it. The thing is, most fighters eat a lot of meat, and there are a ton of Mexican fighters who can't afford to have it imported.

The point (besides that it's interesting) is that it isn't always as simple as a 1980s steroid PSA when a guy fails a test.


MJ, what the heck do you think America is eating?

Hamburgers.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby IchabodCrane84 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:08 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:
MJ, what the heck do you think America is eating?

Hamburgers.


At IHOB
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:10 am

IchabodCrane84 wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Hamburgers.


At IHOB

"If a man eats a burger at a pancake joint wit his friend, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:25 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
IchabodCrane84 wrote:
At IHOB

"If a man eats a burger at a pancake joint wit his friend, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."


Dilly, Dilly
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:43 am

NYBF wrote:So you're assuming it's a supplement of some sort? Being that they cannot identify it, how do you make that assumption?


I'm assuming it's a substance that was contained in a supplement. I'm giving Edleman the benefit of the doubt that he didn't knowingly consume a substance he knew he shouldn't.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:47 am

MJW wrote:Boxing has a problem right now with Mexican beef. Apparently something about what the cows eat, or the steroids they're given, has caused a lot of Mexican fighters to fail drugs tests when they consume it. The sanctioning bodies have acknowledged that this is happening, too, but they can't find a test to work around it. The thing is, most fighters eat a lot of meat, and there are a ton of Mexican fighters who can't afford to have it imported.

The point (besides that it's interesting) is that it isn't always as simple as a 1980s steroid PSA when a guy fails a test.


Steroids are different b/c you're dealing w/ hormones and baselines can be established. I get what you're saying here, but increased hormone levels and foreign/banned substances don't have to be the same thing.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:57 am

Buc2 wrote:
NYBF wrote:So you're assuming it's a supplement of some sort? Being that they cannot identify it, how do you make that assumption?

Guilty until proven innocent. duh

The NFL isn't out to sabotage players with the PED policy. Isn't their some accountability on the end of the athlete? Or is every failed test the fault of the testing system and policy that was MUTUALLY agreed upon?

There is an appeals process if Edleman indeed just took an unknown substance that triggered the 'positive' test but is otherwise not a PED or masking agent.

Just b/c the substance that triggered the result wasn't on a list or known doesn't mean it won't be now that a player popped for it. The NFL along with most athletic drug testing use mass spectrometry to determine the substance and make a determination. Again, the list of both approved and banned substances is constantly evolving and all 32 NFL teams have those lists. Players can contact the team trainers at any time for clarification before taking something.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:53 pm

Stop the presses!!!

Andrew Luck threw a pass in practice today!!
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Buc2 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:57 pm

:o :shock:
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:57 pm

DreadNaught wrote:Stop the presses!!!

Andrew Luck threw a pass in practice today!!


PROOF OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:04 pm

DreadNaught wrote:Stop the presses!!!

Andrew Luck threw a pass in practice today!!


You’re full of ****
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Deuce » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:14 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Stop the presses!!!

Andrew Luck threw a pass in practice today!!


PROOF OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!


Just wondering, bootz, why you seem to hate Luck? idk if it's been discussed before, but I remember mostly because of fantasy football. I drafted him really late, just in case he returned. You called it a dumb move, I'm pretty sure you've discussed him never playing again and with every update you seem to be one of the first to criticize him or point out how long it's been since he's thrown, etc.

I think we'd all be happier if Luck came back. There's no doubt he's a top 10 QB when healthy and he plays in the AFC, not like he plays for ATL or something. I just don't get the hate for a player who has such little connection to our own team.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby acmillis » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:15 pm

DreadNaught wrote:Stop the presses!!!

Andrew Luck threw a pass in practice today!!

...and immediately lost said appendage.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Super K » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:07 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Stop the presses!!!

Andrew Luck threw a pass in practice today!!


You’re full of ****


I laughed...
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby SIBucsFan » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:18 pm

Just don't anyone to miss out on more old Raiders signings

DE Frostee Rucker - age 35, 12th season
DT Ahtyba Rubin - age 32, 11th season

They combine for 285 games and 180 starts between them.

They are also having Rich Gannon attend mini-camp and sit-in on QB meetings, looking to backup Carr.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Nano » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:14 pm

Raiders have waived QB Christan Hackenberg. Holy ****...he didn't even make it to TC after they traded for him.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby acmillis » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:41 am

Nano wrote:Raiders have waived QB Christan Hackenberg. Holy ****...he didn't even make it to TC after they traded for him.

Not old enough...
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Nano » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:04 pm

Cowboys OG Zack Martin got paid. 6yrs/84 mil/40 gtd
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:01 pm

Nano wrote:Cowboys OG Zack Martin got paid. 6yrs/84 mil/40 gtd


He’s earned it!
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby Four Verticals » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:15 pm

NYBF wrote:
You sure they get a list of products that are ok? Seems like that would be endless. The CBA outlines a number of substances that are banned. How can you ban something if you don't know what it is? How do you prove that something they cannot identify is not a PED or masking agent?


There's no list of ok substances or supplements. There is only a list of banned substances.

If Edelman's substance is in doubt then there should have been no public acknowledgement of it nor should there have been a suspension. That would be a violation of the PED policy in itself. So the dots are not connecting here.
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby acmillis » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:13 pm

Nano wrote:Raiders have waived QB Christan Hackenberg. Holy ****...he didn't even make it to TC after they traded for him.

Gruden blames it on the CBA, but his quote is telling...
I don't know how you developed a young qb (with the way the cba is written)."

some things never change
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Re: ***2018 Official NFL Off-Season Thread***

Postby beardmcdoug » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:22 pm

acmillis wrote:
Nano wrote:Raiders have waived QB Christan Hackenberg. Holy ****...he didn't even make it to TC after they traded for him.

Gruden blames it on the CBA, but his quote is telling...
I don't know how you developed a young qb (with the way the cba is written)."

some things never change


This is the first Gruden has coached under the new CBA. He was fired two years prior to it. That doesn’t make any sense....
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