Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

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Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby DanTurksGhost » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:40 pm

I really don't agree with him. I think we're thin and I really don't consider the guys we have particularly "versatile". We need at least two new starters and a new young RT getting ready to replace Dot. As far as Donovan Smith goes, I have made my opinion known. Not a fan. But I'll back off of him for now and see how he progresses next season. Physically we know his limitations, but he's got to fix the mental lapses.

Here's the article:

http://www.tbo.com/sports/football/bucs ... _164106446
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby theBKwhopper » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:46 pm

I've come to accept Smith as our LT. ATM, he's the best we can do and we could do a lot worse. I like Marpet and Dotson. I'm willing to let Sweezy compete. I was excited about Benenoch when we drafted him, but he looks like hot garbage. We need a new LG and all kinds of depth. More importantly we need a group that will gel together.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby PetePierson » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:53 pm

Smith is a bust (considering where he was drafted). Move him to RT is only way he has longevity. But that leaves LT open and not too many guys to fill that position.

I still have faith Sweezy comes back (no pun intended) to earn his contract.

Marpet is good. Hawley is serviceable. EDS is at the end of his career. The rest of depth chart is meh.

So, not sure what DK is talking about.

This HC is a total dolt and living on borrowed time.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby DanTurksGhost » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:59 pm

PetePierson wrote:This HC is a total dolt and living on borrowed time.


He also gave all of our bargaining chips to Brent Grimes today, telling him directly to his face that the Bucs definitely want him back here. Of course this team is pretty screwed if Grimes DOESN'T come back or if his play falls off dramatically next season.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby PetePierson » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:01 am

DanTurksGhost wrote:He also gave all of our bargaining chips to Brent Grimes today, telling him directly to his face that the Bucs definitely want him back here. Of course this team is pretty screwed if Grimes DOESN'T come back or if his play falls off dramatically next season.


Great. Another year of his garbage play and See You Next Tuesday, wife.

Lockeroom must clown him endlessly about her.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby MJW » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:13 am

Let's just leave Donovan Smith out of it because it'll hijack the thread...

I feel good about Marpet at center. He should absolutely get a hefty contract extension. Something in the range of what Justin Britt and Corey Lindsey got recently.

Our guards are possibly the worst in the NFL right now. I don't really know what else to say about it. Pamphile should walk. Evan Smith should retire. JR Sweezy should get cut.

Our right tackle is really, really good. But he'll also be 33 next season.

Behind them, Caleb Benenoch has shown nothing. Leonard Wester is a warm body. Joe Hawley is the modern day Chris Hovan (not a compliment.)

If the Bucs WANTED to make offensive line a priority, we'd be signing a guard in free agency, drafting another one on Day Two, drafting at least one developmental tackle on day three, and possibly signing a 6th lineman type as well.

And, again, that's leaving Donovan Smith out of it.

I really hope Koetter is just laying the ground work for a smokescreen of some kind. If he actually believes this we're screwed.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:17 am

Draft Quenton Nelson, plug him in at LG, and I think we have one of the better o-lines in football. Smith is definitely not a bust. A quality starter at a premium position like LT in the 2nd round is solid value. Marpet and Dotson are Pro Bowl caliber players though Dot admittedly is getting long in the tooth, and an heir should be developed. Sweezy is likely back and while he was merely mediocre before he got hurt, he should be better as long as he has a full offseason of training (which he hasn't had in 2 years). Replacing Pamphile at LG and he's suddenly a top tier backup. Hawley is a very good backup at center too. Add a mid round developmental OT and we are in great shape. Evan Smith, Leonard Wester, and Caleb Benenoch I've seen enough of and shouldn't even be dressed on sundays.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby Agent Orange » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:25 am

MJW wrote:
I really hope Koetter is just laying the ground work for a smokescreen of some kind. If he actually believes this we're screwed.


I thought last off-season that we needed to revamp the O-line and they said the same type of things. This is what concerns me the most. If they are not concerned about both lines we are in trouble. Actually we already know we are in trouble.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby DanTurksGhost » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:37 am

Agent Orange wrote:
MJW wrote:I really hope Koetter is just laying the ground work for a smokescreen of some kind. If he actually believes this we're screwed.


I thought last off-season that we needed to revamp the O-line and they said the same type of things. This is what concerns me the most. If they are not concerned about both lines we are in trouble. Actually we already know we are in trouble.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIWYYJWfEu0
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby terrytate » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:23 am

Agent Orange wrote:
MJW wrote:
I really hope Koetter is just laying the ground work for a smokescreen of some kind. If he actually believes this we're screwed.


I thought last off-season that we needed to revamp the O-line and they said the same type of things. This is what concerns me the most. If they are not concerned about both lines we are in trouble. Actually we already know we are in trouble.



I am pretty sure Koetter believes in the starting Oline. He might see LG as a spot to upgrade but he seems to be all in on Smith, Marpet, Sweezy and Dotson. I'd like to get a new LT and kick Smith inside to LG, but that seems like pie in the sky. I don't think it matters though, this looks like a weak crop of OT's anyways. If we can draft a good LG with potential, I'll learn to live with it.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby MJW » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:50 am

terrytate wrote:
Agent Orange wrote:
I thought last off-season that we needed to revamp the O-line and they said the same type of things. This is what concerns me the most. If they are not concerned about both lines we are in trouble. Actually we already know we are in trouble.



I am pretty sure Koetter believes in the starting Oline. He might see LG as a spot to upgrade but he seems to be all in on Smith, Marpet, Sweezy and Dotson. I'd like to get a new LT and kick Smith inside to LG, but that seems like pie in the sky. I don't think it matters though, this looks like a weak crop of OT's anyways. If we can draft a good LG with potential, I'll learn to live with it.


On two very important conditions: One, there's actually a reason to believe Sweezy will return to the C- form he showed in Seattle, and two, that we bolster depth and don't find ourselves relying on the Evan Smith/Joe Hawley/Caleb Benenoch show again in case of injury.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby Cheb » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:06 am

The full quote is:

"I think we have depth on the offensive line, we have versatility on the offensive line," Koetter said. "I know our O-line is heavily criticized. I think our O-line is in the upper half of the league. … When I’m looking at tapes of other teams, I see some bad offensive line play. I think our O-line hung in there pretty good."

He's not totally wrong.

We have depth; we just proved that by being forced to start a bunch of JAGs and being able to not grind to a screeching halt. We have versatility, because those JAGs can often play more than one position.

What he didn't say is that we have talent. He thinks that our offensive line is good by comparison. Being good and good by comparison are very different things. A person bench pressing 150lbs as their max could be the strongest guy in the weight room at a given moment, but that doesn't mean that they are objectively strong, only strong when compared to their immediate peers.

Is our offensive line better than the Seahawks, Colts, and Giants units? Yes. Does that mean that they are good? No.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:41 am

OK, lets wrap it up and go enjoy the offseason - hey guys - hey guys - dont forget to get better for next year!
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby MJW » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:43 am

Cheb wrote:The full quote is:

"I think we have depth on the offensive line, we have versatility on the offensive line," Koetter said. "I know our O-line is heavily criticized. I think our O-line is in the upper half of the league. … When I’m looking at tapes of other teams, I see some bad offensive line play. I think our O-line hung in there pretty good."

He's not totally wrong.

We have depth; we just proved that by being forced to start a bunch of JAGs and being able to not grind to a screeching halt. We have versatility, because those JAGs can often play more than one position.

What he didn't say is that we have talent. He thinks that our offensive line is good by comparison. Being good and good by comparison are very different things. A person bench pressing 150lbs as their max could be the strongest guy in the weight room at a given moment, but that doesn't mean that they are objectively strong, only strong when compared to their immediate peers.

Is our offensive line better than the Seahawks, Colts, and Giants units? Yes. Does that mean that they are good? No.


I have a hard time believing we're in the upper half of jack ****. Jameis spent the entire season running for his life. Our backs were lucky to even reach the LOS before getting hit. If half the teams in the league were WORSE than this, there must have been offensive lines point-shaving or something.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:51 am

Need a new LG. Pamphile is a UFA and I don't see us re-signing him to starters money.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:53 am

Go into defensive mode MJW. Its time
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:04 am

mdb1958 wrote:Go into defensive mode MJW. Its time



MJW ------------------------ NOW!!
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby pewterpirates » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:53 am

MJW wrote:If he actually believes this we're screwed.


This is what scares the piss out of me. I believe he and Licht both believe the OL is fine. They were adamant about that after last year's draft. They were adamant about it going into the season. And, after watching the OL continually fail to open running lanes or consistently protect the QB, somehow they're still confident in this OL.

I don't freaking get it. OL is a top 3 concern (along with DE/CB). It has to be.

Hopefully the Glazers do a 180 and fire Koetter simply for his trust in this OL.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:45 pm

Shocking statistic that backs up Koetter

4th in the league in third down percentage.

I know, I couldn't believe it either.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:58 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:Shocking statistic that backs up Koetter

4th in the league in third down percentage.

I know, I couldn't believe it either.


I think alot of Bucs fans are so used to complaining about poor oline play that they weren't able to wrap their collective heads around the fact the oline played well this year- and that's despite being decimated by injuries. Doug Martin sucking ass just compounded it. We need a new LG to be sure, but we're otherwise in good shape.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:05 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Shocking statistic that backs up Koetter

4th in the league in third down percentage.

I know, I couldn't believe it either.


I think alot of Bucs fans are so used to complaining about poor oline play that they weren't able to wrap their collective heads around the fact the oline played well this year- and that's despite being decimated by injuries. Doug Martin sucking ass just compounded it. We need a new LG to be sure, but we're otherwise in good shape.

40 sacks given up.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:07 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:
I think alot of Bucs fans are so used to complaining about poor oline play that they weren't able to wrap their collective heads around the fact the oline played well this year- and that's despite being decimated by injuries. Doug Martin sucking ass just compounded it. We need a new LG to be sure, but we're otherwise in good shape.

40 sacks given up.

We also passed the ball an obscene number of times (3rd in the NFL). Our adjusted sack rate was 16th in the league (and that's after being decimated by injuries). That's what matters more. If we had better run/pass balance, that number would go way way down.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:11 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:40 sacks given up.

We also passed the ball an obscene number of times (3rd in the NFL). Our adjusted sack rate was 16th in the league (and that's after being decimated by injuries). That's what matters more. If we had better run/pass balance, that number would go way way down.

If we had better players on the O-Line, it would go much farther down than simply changing the run/pass ratio which is dictated by down and distance in addition to the score.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby Doctor » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:12 pm

A lot of that comes from Winston holding on the to the ball way too long. He got better with that as the season went along.

I don't know how people can think we don't have depth at the OL. We played pretty darn well the last few weeks with what makes up our B squad. That's awesome. Most teams couldn't do that.

There's definite room for improvement, but this whole "cut half the line" bullshit is just ridiculous. Especially since a crucial factor in OL play is chemistry and familiarity.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:13 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:We also passed the ball an obscene number of times (3rd in the NFL). Our adjusted sack rate was 16th in the league (and that's after being decimated by injuries). That's what matters more. If we had better run/pass balance, that number would go way way down.

If we had better players on the O-Line, it would go much farther down than changing the run/pass ratio.

Well luckily for us we will be adding Ali Marpet, Demar Dotson, and JR Sweezy. Perhaps even another LG.

Bottom line though, is we were middle of the pack in terms of adjusted sack rate and that was with a decimated OL unit.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby Bucs N Beers » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:15 pm

Benenoch wasn't a super fantastic RT. But last year when he had to plug in at LG briefly, I thought he did a good job. Maybe he gets a shot there with Pamphile likely to depart.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:16 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:We also passed the ball an obscene number of times (3rd in the NFL). Our adjusted sack rate was 16th in the league (and that's after being decimated by injuries). That's what matters more. If we had better run/pass balance, that number would go way way down.

If we had better players on the O-Line, it would go much farther down than simply changing the run/pass ratio which is dictated by down and distance in addition to the score.

Again, it goes back to the run game. If we could run the ball effectively on 1st and 2nd down... everything changes. Every team should want balance on offence.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:24 pm

Bucs N Beers wrote:Benenoch wasn't a super fantastic RT. But last year when he had to plug in at LG briefly, I thought he did a good job. Maybe he gets a shot there with Pamphile likely to depart.


Maybe. If for no other reason that he's a train wreck at tackle, his play at guard was better.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby Sammich » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:31 pm

I would agree that our oline is average, but getting it to good or even elite is worth the investment. Smith, Marpet, and Dot are basically set in stone. There is reason to believe Sweezey will improve with an uninjured offseason. That last spot could put this line over the top and make our already good offense borderline unstoppable.

I'm from the "games are won and lost in the trenches" school. I think the best way to build a team is to follow a simple flow chart every year with your first round pick- take a QB if you need one and one you like is available. Otherwise take the best lineman on the board.
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Re: Koetter: "We have depth and versatility on the OL"

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:57 pm

I'm more from the Joe Gibbs school of first rounders should be pass rushers or guys who score/pass touchdowns. But Nelson is worthy.
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