***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!***

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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Caradoc » Wed May 16, 2018 6:42 pm

Koetter rode Martin long after it was clear he sucked. Justin Evans rode the pine and then showed he should have been the starter after 5 minutes of play time due to injury.

VH3 is going to start week one, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Any changes to that won't happen in camp/Preseason.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed May 16, 2018 6:53 pm

Caradoc wrote:Koetter rode Martin long after it was clear he sucked. Justin Evans rode the pine and then showed he should have been the starter after 5 minutes of play time due to injury.

VH3 is going to start week one, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Any changes to that won't happen in camp/Preseason.


You're telling half-stories here.

Koetter rode Martin so long because there was no better option. That is unless you believe Barber, Quizz or Sims are better than they really are.

Justin Evans was terrible in TC and in the pre-season. He looked like a rookie. But it's a credit to him that he got better during the season. He didn't earn a starting job out of camp.

Who's your better option in place of VH3? Ryan Smith?? You're kidding yourself if you believe that. And if you say one of the rookies then you're proving the philosophy that "the new guy in town is always the most popular" correct.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Rocker » Wed May 16, 2018 7:23 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Caradoc wrote:Koetter rode Martin long after it was clear he sucked. Justin Evans rode the pine and then showed he should have been the starter after 5 minutes of play time due to injury.

VH3 is going to start week one, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Any changes to that won't happen in camp/Preseason.


You're telling half-stories here.

Koetter rode Martin so long because there was no better option. That is unless you believe Barber, Quizz or Sims are better than they really are.

Justin Evans was terrible in TC and in the pre-season. He looked like a rookie. But it's a credit to him that he got better during the season. He didn't earn a starting job out of camp.

Who's your better option in place of VH3? Ryan Smith?? You're kidding yourself if you believe that. And if you say one of the rookies then you're proving the philosophy that "the new guy in town is always the most popular" correct.


Offseason Wars, Episode III: Revenge of Revisionist History

Barber was better than Martin. Stats and eye test prove it. Koetter continued to play Martin in spite of his ineffectual production because contract.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby real bucs fan » Wed May 16, 2018 7:25 pm

I think giving Hargreaves one last shot outside is the way to go. We've been spoiled with guys like Lattimore/Ramsey/Peters etc coming into the league and being stars, but most CBs take a lot of time to develop. The thing with Hargreaves is that he should at least be a great NB, so while you give him a shot outside, you can always yank him for Davis if Davis is looking good and just have Hargreaves be your full time NB. And if Stewart is showing alot, he could always play safety just to get our best guys on the field.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby real bucs fan » Wed May 16, 2018 7:27 pm

Rocker wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
You're telling half-stories here.

Koetter rode Martin so long because there was no better option. That is unless you believe Barber, Quizz or Sims are better than they really are.

Justin Evans was terrible in TC and in the pre-season. He looked like a rookie. But it's a credit to him that he got better during the season. He didn't earn a starting job out of camp.

Who's your better option in place of VH3? Ryan Smith?? You're kidding yourself if you believe that. And if you say one of the rookies then you're proving the philosophy that "the new guy in town is always the most popular" correct.


Offseason Wars, Episode III: Revenge of Revisionist History

Barber was better than Martin. Stats and eye test prove it. Koetter continued to play Martin in spite of his ineffectual production because contract.

When it became clear that Barber was the better option, we started giving him the lionshare of the RB touches.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby IchabodCrane84 » Wed May 16, 2018 7:37 pm

Caradoc wrote:VH3 is going to start week one, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.


Nancy Kerrigan disagrees.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Rocker » Wed May 16, 2018 7:38 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Rocker wrote:
Offseason Wars, Episode III: Revenge of Revisionist History

Barber was better than Martin. Stats and eye test prove it. Koetter continued to play Martin in spite of his ineffectual production because contract.

When it became clear that Barber was the better option, we started giving him the lionshare of the RB touches.



We did it a few weeks too late, in my opinion. I understand the decision in real time (e.g. Martins history) - but anyone arguing that Martin was the better producer last year is trolling.

Talent wise, Martin is/was better. Production wise.... GTFO.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed May 16, 2018 7:41 pm

Rocker wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:When it became clear that Barber was the better option, we started giving him the lionshare of the RB touches.



We did it a few weeks too late, in my opinion. I understand the decision in real time (e.g. Martins history) - but anyone arguing that Martin was the better producer last year is trolling.

Talent wise, Martin is/was better. Production wise.... GTFO.


If you understand the decision in real time then you’re only making your assessment in hindsight. I agree with you, in hindsight. But in real time you can’t tell me you KNEW Peyton Barber would emerge. RBF is right here, Koetter turned to Barber when he sort of proved himself(which still wasn’t very good).
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby uscbucsfan » Wed May 16, 2018 8:00 pm

Our DBs will continue to struggle as long as Jon Hoke is our secondary coach. I have no faith in his ability to coach and his track record of playing 5-7 yards off, regardless of match up or situation, goes back to his days at Missouri in the 90s.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby MJW » Wed May 16, 2018 10:56 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:Our DBs will continue to struggle as long as Jon Hoke is our secondary coach. I have no faith in his ability to coach and his track record of playing 5-7 yards off, regardless of match up or situation, goes back to his days at Missouri in the 90s.


I found it encouraging that we drafted Carlton Davis, who is far and away more comfortable in press coverage than off coverage by all accounts.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Nano » Thu May 17, 2018 1:23 pm

Trevor Sikkema @TampaBayTre
#Bucs OC Todd Monken said that WR Chris Godwin has earned the opportunity to begin the season as a starting receiver
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Mex-Buc » Thu May 17, 2018 1:35 pm

Nano wrote:
Trevor Sikkema @TampaBayTre
#Bucs OC Todd Monken said that WR Chris Godwin has earned the opportunity to begin the season as a starting receiver


Nice!
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Jason Bourne » Thu May 17, 2018 1:46 pm

Mex-Buc wrote:
Nano wrote:


Nice!
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Super K » Thu May 17, 2018 1:50 pm

Nano wrote:
Trevor Sikkema @TampaBayTre
#Bucs OC Todd Monken said that WR Chris Godwin has earned the opportunity to begin the season as a starting receiver


So are we starting in 3 wide, do they account for the "slot WR" like NB and name a starter or is DJax benched?
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu May 17, 2018 1:56 pm

Super K wrote:
Nano wrote:


So are we starting in 3 wide, do they account for the "slot WR" like NB and name a starter or is DJax benched?


From the way it's worded, Monkin is giving his opinion of the work Godwin is putting in. It's also worth noting that Desean Jackson is not currently at OTAs. He's in L.A.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby real bucs fan » Thu May 17, 2018 9:58 pm

Super K wrote:
Nano wrote:


So are we starting in 3 wide, do they account for the "slot WR" like NB and name a starter or is DJax benched?

I think the guy who's in trouble is Hump. I think we will see the 5 of Evans/DJax/Godwin/Brat/Howard seeing a ton of PT in a kind of rotation, with 1 guy subbed out for the RB. Koetter seems to love Hump, but I think his days are numbered especially since we drafted the other white boy to run the concussion routes.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby theBKwhopper » Thu May 17, 2018 10:36 pm

We're looking too much into that quote. Monken was literally calling all our receivers "starters."
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Four Verticals » Thu May 17, 2018 10:46 pm

theBKwhopper wrote:We're looking too much into that quote. Monken was literally calling all our receivers "starters."


Exactly.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Four Verticals » Thu May 17, 2018 10:48 pm

real bucs fan wrote:I think the guy who's in trouble is Hump.


For this upcoming season, think again.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby real bucs fan » Fri May 18, 2018 12:32 am

Four Verticals wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:I think the guy who's in trouble is Hump.


For this upcoming season, think again.

I don't see how his snap count doesn't drop by quite a bit.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri May 18, 2018 12:39 am

real bucs fan wrote:
Four Verticals wrote:
For this upcoming season, think again.

I don't see how his snap count doesn't drop by quite a bit.


What his snap count will be is largely irrelevant. It's not something teams telegraph. It's dictated by how the game goes. If we go 14-2 and lead a substantial amount of the time this season, logic would tell you that we probably ran the ball a lot more and as a result WRs in general would see fewer snaps.

Hump may or may not see a decrease in snap count. Fewer snaps for a player doesn't always mean they've been demoted. Here's a more vital question. Do you think his production will decrease? If so why? The answer to that is much more relevant than how many snaps he plays. He had 83 targets in both the 2016 and 2017 seasons.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby MJW » Fri May 18, 2018 1:21 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:I don't see how his snap count doesn't drop by quite a bit.


What his snap count will be is largely irrelevant. It's not something teams telegraph. It's dictated by how the game goes. If we go 14-2 and lead a substantial amount of the time this season, logic would tell you that we probably ran the ball a lot more and as a result WRs in general would see fewer snaps.

Hump may or may not see a decrease in snap count. Fewer snaps for a player doesn't always mean they've been demoted. Here's a more vital question. Do you think his production will decrease? If so why? The answer to that is much more relevant than how many snaps he plays. He had 83 targets in both the 2016 and 2017 seasons.


Hump played 648 snaps for his 83 targets in 2016, and 681 snaps for his 83 targets in 2017.

If Jones makes good, Hump is the 7th most dangerous guy we're going to have on the field by design this season. If he gets 83 targets again this season without the help of injuries, we're doing a **** job of maximizing our talent. Which is nothing new.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri May 18, 2018 7:28 am

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
What his snap count will be is largely irrelevant. It's not something teams telegraph. It's dictated by how the game goes. If we go 14-2 and lead a substantial amount of the time this season, logic would tell you that we probably ran the ball a lot more and as a result WRs in general would see fewer snaps.

Hump may or may not see a decrease in snap count. Fewer snaps for a player doesn't always mean they've been demoted. Here's a more vital question. Do you think his production will decrease? If so why? The answer to that is much more relevant than how many snaps he plays. He had 83 targets in both the 2016 and 2017 seasons.


Hump played 648 snaps for his 83 targets in 2016, and 681 snaps for his 83 targets in 2017.

If Jones makes good, Hump is the 7th most dangerous guy we're going to have on the field by design this season. If he gets 83 targets again this season without the help of injuries, we're doing a **** job of maximizing our talent. Which is nothing new.


You do realize that amounts to 5 targets a game, right? Not exactly hogging the majority of targets or even a significant amount.

This “most dangerous” guy stuff you’re using is another MJWism that has to do with absolutely nothing. What does most dangerous mean? Is this the rank in which they should receive targets? By in large Desean Jackson is the most dangerous guy on the field. But we all know he won’t get 130+ targets.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Doctor » Fri May 18, 2018 8:20 am

I see DJax taking slot reps before Godwin. Just from a skillset pov. Evans plays a fair amount in the slot as well. No one needs to miss out for others to get time, there are more than enough reps to go around. This isn't Madden where every plays 100% of the time. There are plenty of plays that has another WR beside hump in the slot by design, on those Godwin will be outside. Even with Hump in the slot, Godwin can still spell Evans or Jackson outside as well. Everyone eats.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Doctor » Fri May 18, 2018 8:20 am

Monken be like: "24th in red zone scoring, 6 red zone drops, 6 red zone fumbles..."
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23533541

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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby MJW » Fri May 18, 2018 8:36 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
Hump played 648 snaps for his 83 targets in 2016, and 681 snaps for his 83 targets in 2017.

If Jones makes good, Hump is the 7th most dangerous guy we're going to have on the field by design this season. If he gets 83 targets again this season without the help of injuries, we're doing a **** job of maximizing our talent. Which is nothing new.


You do realize that amounts to 5 targets a game, right? Not exactly hogging the majority of targets or even a significant amount.

This “most dangerous” guy stuff you’re using is another MJWism that has to do with absolutely nothing. What does most dangerous mean? Is this the rank in which they should receive targets? By in large Desean Jackson is the most dangerous guy on the field. But we all know he won’t get 130+ targets.


Five targets a game isn't a lot? LOL, sure fam.

Obviously you understand what "dangerous" means, since you used it two sentences later. So we get some real math iggy and some fake iggy. The Bootz breakfast special.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Fri May 18, 2018 8:49 am

Bucs offense just needs to run the ball better and convert better in the redzone.

I know it's optimistic to say, but I believe the Bucs offense is on the verge of breaking out this season and being one of the top scoring offenses in the NFL in 2018. We've demonstrated the ability to move the ball as good as any team, especially through the air. So if we can get some juice/explosive runs from RoJo in addition to Barber taking the next step our run game should increase in productivity.

If out new high priced kicker can solve our ST woes and we reduce the turnovers in the redzone we're talking an increase of a few points per game and this without the offense being any better in terms of production.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby real bucs fan » Fri May 18, 2018 9:41 am

DreadNaught wrote:Bucs offense just needs to run the ball better and convert better in the redzone.

I know it's optimistic to say, but I believe the Bucs offense is on the verge of breaking out this season and being one of the top scoring offenses in the NFL in 2018. We've demonstrated the ability to move the ball as good as any team, especially through the air. So if we can get some juice/explosive runs from RoJo in addition to Barber taking the next step our run game should increase in productivity.

If out new high priced kicker can solve our ST woes and we reduce the turnovers in the redzone we're talking an increase of a few points per game and this without the offense being any better in terms of production.

Agreed, and not only that, but I think running the ball better will make us alot better in the red zone. Good red zone offences generally are good running football teams. The best red zone offences, can just run it down defences throats and smash it in there...

And this is what I've essentially been saying for 2 years, and why last offseason was so frustrating for me. There is no excuse not to be a good running football team, asset wise, it's the easiest aspect of a football team to build. It also has a synergistic affect that helps every other facet, it helps the QB, it helps pass protection, it helps the coach, it helps the defence...

Very excited for this year, really hoping Jones can be one of those instant impact RBs for us.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri May 18, 2018 12:34 pm

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
You do realize that amounts to 5 targets a game, right? Not exactly hogging the majority of targets or even a significant amount.

This “most dangerous” guy stuff you’re using is another MJWism that has to do with absolutely nothing. What does most dangerous mean? Is this the rank in which they should receive targets? By in large Desean Jackson is the most dangerous guy on the field. But we all know he won’t get 130+ targets.


Five targets a game isn't a lot? LOL, sure fam.

Obviously you understand what "dangerous" means, since you used it two sentences later. So we get some real math iggy and some fake iggy. The Bootz breakfast special.


Yet another MJWism that has to do with absolutely nothing. Keep em comin', "fam".
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Nano » Fri May 18, 2018 2:16 pm

Jeremy Fowler @JFowlerESPN
Wide receiver Vincent Jackson is "very happily retired" from the NFL, a rep for the three-time Pro Bowler told @ESPN. Jackson, who's focused on community/business work in Tampa since last playing in 2016, finishes his career with 9,080 receiving yards and 57 touchdown catches.


There was a rumor that a team(I think the Panthers?) contacted him about coming out of retirement to play again this season. Pretty cool though that he's still in Tampa doing community work.
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