***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!***

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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby SIBucsFan » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:14 am

I've never questioned Noah Spence's physical or playing abilities. It all comes down to the shoulder. If it still isn't right, he won't last long with the Bucs or in the NFL at all.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:25 am

SIBucsFan wrote:I've never questioned Noah Spence's physical or playing abilities. It all comes down to the shoulder. If it still isn't right, he won't last long with the Bucs or in the NFL at all.

Ya I want to see him have 16 games for us- even if it's only as a situational edge rusher. I think he can be very productive for us if he can.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:27 am

real bucs fan wrote:
SIBucsFan wrote:I've never questioned Noah Spence's physical or playing abilities. It all comes down to the shoulder. If it still isn't right, he won't last long with the Bucs or in the NFL at all.

Ya I want to see him have 16 games for us- even if it's only as a situational edge rusher. I think he can be very productive for us if he can.


Agreed on both.

Spence needs a healthy season. This is year 3 now and he's been either hobbled or inactive for majority of his first two seasons.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby GameTime » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:28 am

Spence will finally be able to do what we brought him here to do, rush the passer. With gholston, jpp, and curry, we have plenty of guys for the run downs. I do agree if hes outplayed he could lose his roster spot. I just also have a hard time believing a kid from a small school will come in and take it.

We have what appears to be a very good mix of DEs and NTs. We need to get a developmental guy behind McCoy imo.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:32 am

GameTime wrote:We need to get a developmental guy behind McCoy imo.


There is certainly room for that type of player on the current depth chart with a chance to make the 53.

Hurst at 38

Or maybe in early rd 4 we look at wither BJ Hill from NC State or that Shepard kid from Fort Hays State.

Deep class for interior DL this year
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:37 am

SIBucsFan wrote:I've never questioned Noah Spence's physical or playing abilities. It all comes down to the shoulder. If it still isn't right, he won't last long with the Bucs or in the NFL at all.


I have. He's always been a liability against the run. He hasn't been strong enough at the POA. He's also unpolished as a pass rusher. His 1st step is good but he has poor hand usage and doesn't close well.

He's not all that dissimilar from Vinny Curry except Curry is a bit bigger and can play the run better. But like Curry, Spence will be a guy with a lot of "pressure" and QB hits but won't consistently close the deal in getting sacks. This dream fans have had of him being a 10+ sack guy has been rather comical. Thankfully OBP ain't putting all of their eggs in that basket.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby MJW » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:06 am

Bootz2004 wrote:. This dream fans have had of him being a 10+ sack guy has been rather comical. Thankfully OBP ain't putting all of their eggs in that basket.


It sucks he magically appeared on the roster two years ago. I'm glad OBP is working through being burdened with his mediocrity, however.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby MJW » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:08 am

Cheb wrote:
MJW wrote:The Broncos are releasing CJ Anderson, which I'm mentioning in this thread because it seems like a signing Licht would make. Two weeks from the draft, established veteran cut, major position of need, would win him cheap applause...yep.


On the surface, yeah. But we have $12 million in cap space, and about $7 million of that is going to be our rookies. I don't think we are signing a free agent worthy of note anytime soon. I wouldn't expect any signings until after the draft. Maybe after a cut or two, Sweezy being the most likely candidate.

What makes the cutting of Anderson more interesting to me is that if Barkley falls to five, I think it's a high probability that he is a Bronco. CJ Anderson accounted for over half their rushing total last year, and giving Keenum a reliable multipurpose back would help him tremendously.


The cap situation wouldn't be a problem. We still have some dead wood likely to be chopped after the draft either way.

I don't see this as having anything to do with the draft for the Broncos. Why would they telegraph their intentions now, if they could just cut Anderson five minutes after they make their pick?
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Cheb » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:24 am

MJW wrote:
Cheb wrote:
On the surface, yeah. But we have $12 million in cap space, and about $7 million of that is going to be our rookies. I don't think we are signing a free agent worthy of note anytime soon. I wouldn't expect any signings until after the draft. Maybe after a cut or two, Sweezy being the most likely candidate.

What makes the cutting of Anderson more interesting to me is that if Barkley falls to five, I think it's a high probability that he is a Bronco. CJ Anderson accounted for over half their rushing total last year, and giving Keenum a reliable multipurpose back would help him tremendously.


The cap situation wouldn't be a problem. We still have some dead wood likely to be chopped after the draft either way.

I don't see this as having anything to do with the draft for the Broncos. Why would they telegraph their intentions now, if they could just cut Anderson five minutes after they make their pick?


A worthy point. Their offseason work started today. Maybe that has something to do with it. I don't know though.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby VauntedTampa2 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:26 am

Looking ahead:

LE- JPP, Gholston
3T- McCoy, Unrein
NT- Allen
RE- Curry, Spence

Barring any trades, I'd say these 7 are a lock to make the roster.

If we draft a high-end DT such as Vea/Hurst, etc, they will slide into to DT rotation nicely, and everyone is happy. Our DL as a whole would be average to above average on paper. Not to mention, McCoy is getting up there in age and grooming a young 3T would be an ideal situation.

If we go DE, I think things get a bit trickier for everyone involved. DT is now a weak spot- we would be a McCoy shoulder injury away from having absolute trash on the inside. DE looks great..but JPP had always played a huge percentage of plays, Curry signed to garner more snaps in general/third down, the rookie will play, and finally, we all want to see Spence stay healthy for 16 and see what he can do. Moreover, WG is an above average run defender and should be getting a large amount of snaps on run downs. A log-jam of sorts. Is it a good problem to have? Probably.

Is Gholston/Spence on the chopping block if we go DE? Does Gholston play more at RE since JPP only plays on the left?

Although I'd like to see an improved OL in Tampa (Nelson), I wouldn't mind if we somehow managed to come away with both- a DE and DT. It would give us something we haven't had in a very long time..
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:48 am

I'd be fine with Nelson at 7 and a 3-tech type of DT like Hurst or Bryan at 38th overall.

That would mean we can cut Sweezy an use that $5m saved on him to sign a Safety like Vacarro or Reid.

Also would be ignoring CB and relying on Grimes-VH3-Smith this year. Robert McClain is still a FA also and can be brought back cheap.

Still would need a RB as well since we have only two on the roster that have played an NFL snap (Barber, Quizz) and I'm not sure either of them would even make another NFL team.

But Nelson and either Hurst/Bryan would make both lines pretty strong for both 2018 and the beyond. I just think 'need' in the secondary will guide the decision and the Bucs will draft atleast 1 DB with the first two selections sicne it's been ignored all offseason.

Fact is we have more holes that picks so we can only address so much on day 1 and 2 when most future starters are found. So some positions will still need attention after the draft.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Caradoc » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:29 pm

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:. This dream fans have had of him being a 10+ sack guy has been rather comical. Thankfully OBP ain't putting all of their eggs in that basket.


It sucks he magically appeared on the roster two years ago. I'm glad OBP is working through being burdened with his mediocrity, however.



It sucks OBP couldn't magically predict that he would get a freak injury and that the surgery on that injury wouldn't hold up.

You're really starting to sound like a cheap caricature of Bootz.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:46 pm

Adam Humphries signed his 2nd round tender
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Buc2 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:26 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Adam Humphries signed his 2nd round tender

Smart. I didn't think he'd want to miss any time working with Winston. He needs Winston way more than Winston needs him, so his butt needs to be at every camp and every practice. Besides, he likely knows exactly where he stands in terms of his talent and where he's getting the best money he's going to get at this particular point of his career. There are guys behind him that would gladly take his spot for a lot less.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Doctor » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:50 pm

If the draft falls in a way where we don't come away with a back we really like- which is possible- I'd be all for CJ Anderson. I agree he is a very OBP kind of signing. Honestly, I'd be for locking him in prior to the draft. He can't command big money at this point.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Konatown » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:51 am

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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:03 am

Konatown wrote:Jameis Winston’s 5th year option picked up today


It's a fully guaranteed $21m cap hit in 2019.

Hopefully we can do something decent this season b/c this is the last season with Winston on a (relatively) cheap contract.

Mike Evans has $20m cap hit in 2019, now Winston with $21m.

Kwon, Ali,Donovan Smith, and Humphries all in the final years of their deals in 2018 also and will be pending UFAs.

Maybe trading back and loading up on day 2 picks isn't a bad idea since it would give Licht the chance to address more areas and depth with cheap contracts than staying pat at 7 and just getting one guy.

The cap is going to start becoming an issue for this team. Not something we are used to as Bucs fans the past decade, but usually a good sign that you're atleast a competitive team.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Konatown » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:12 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Konatown wrote:Jameis Winston’s 5th year option picked up today


It's a fully guaranteed $21m cap hit in 2019.

Hopefully we can do something decent this season b/c this is the last season with Winston on a (relatively) cheap contract.

Mike Evans has $20m cap hit in 2019, now Winston with $21m.

Kwon, Ali,Donovan Smith, and Humphries all in the final years of their deals in 2018 also and will be pending UFAs.

Maybe trading back and loading up on day 2 picks isn't a bad idea since it would give Licht the chance to address more areas and depth with cheap contracts than staying pat at 7 and just getting one guy.

The cap is going to start becoming an issue for this team. Not something we are used to as Bucs fans the past decade, but usually a good sign that you're atleast a competitive team.


Agreed. Though the cap is estimated to go up next year, we’ll need to clear some room for the UFA’s.

I see Kwon as the odd man out of those 4, there’s a reason Licht traded up for Beckwith.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:01 pm

Konatown wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
It's a fully guaranteed $21m cap hit in 2019.

Hopefully we can do something decent this season b/c this is the last season with Winston on a (relatively) cheap contract.

Mike Evans has $20m cap hit in 2019, now Winston with $21m.

Kwon, Ali,Donovan Smith, and Humphries all in the final years of their deals in 2018 also and will be pending UFAs.

Maybe trading back and loading up on day 2 picks isn't a bad idea since it would give Licht the chance to address more areas and depth with cheap contracts than staying pat at 7 and just getting one guy.

The cap is going to start becoming an issue for this team. Not something we are used to as Bucs fans the past decade, but usually a good sign that you're atleast a competitive team.


Agreed. Though the cap is estimated to go up next year, we’ll need to clear some room for the UFA’s.

I see Kwon as the odd man out of those 4, there’s a reason Licht traded up for Beckwith.


Possible. I like Beckwith better at MLB and feel he played much better there than he did at SLB. But Kwon is good player and more importantly he's a leader on a unit that severely lacks leadership so I really don't want to see him leave.

I think the following players are in there final season as Bucs one way or another;
Grimes
Evan Smith - 2m
Sweezy - 4m
DJax - 10m
Gholston - 3.75m

So that is Grimes expiring contract plus close to another 20m in cap casualties. Between that and the cap increasing we should be able to re-sign the guys we need to.

Both JPP and Curry can be cut for no penalty either if they don't pan out this season.

LVD and McCoy could be cap casualties as well, but I really doubt it. The NFL is a finny business though and a LOT can change in a year.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Rocker » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:22 pm

As long as Miami has a franchise, at least.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:08 pm

I think Kwon will be the odd man out. We can't re-sign all 4 of those guys without creating holes elsewhere. Ali is an interesting one to keep an eye on as well. Jensen is already making $10mil next season. Donovan you would have to assume would be at least $10mil. Giving another Olineman $10mil+ will be a bit much, right?(going off of the Panthers/Norwell situation).

Before Licht could easily just cut underachieving players with high cap numbers. Now he'll have to cut good players with high cap numbers. Maybe even restructure deals, give out signing bonuses, etc. Going to be a challenge for him.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:34 pm

I dont know why exactly, but I havent been overly impressed with any of our linebackers lately. There always seems to be a lot of negative attached to the splash plays. I hope things look a lot different this year.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Cheb » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:42 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:I think Kwon will be the odd man out. We can't re-sign all 4 of those guys without creating holes elsewhere. Ali is an interesting one to keep an eye on as well. Jensen is already making $10mil next season. Donovan you would have to assume would be at least $10mil. Giving another Olineman $10mil+ will be a bit much, right?(going off of the Panthers/Norwell situation).

Before Licht could easily just cut underachieving players with high cap numbers. Now he'll have to cut good players with high cap numbers. Maybe even restructure deals, give out signing bonuses, etc. Going to be a challenge for him.


You're not wrong. Before this offseason, we had the resources to comfortably secure Winston, D Smith, Marpet, and Kwon. After the sizeable contracts we gave out, not so much anymore. We are in a win-now mode from a salary cap perspective at the very least.

If we restructure JPP's contract, reducing his current $11,250,000 base salary to the veteran minimum and rolling over the remainder into a signing bonus that pro-rates over the remaining years of his contract, that would save about $7 million this year. I would think that this would be a good place to start, and if I were Jason Licht I would be talking with JPP's agent in the next couple of months.

If Sweezy walks the plank, that $5,250,000 in savings. Add that to the JPP restructure and we would be sitting at $12.25 million in created cap space.

When Grimes' and Fitzpatrick's salaries fall off the books next year, and assuming they aren't resigned, that frees up about $10 million. Combine that with JPP and Sweezy, we're sitting at $22.25 million in cap room.

Even with that, that could maybe sign two of the three of Smith, Marpet, and Kwon. Someone's gotta go. And I agree, that guy is most likely Mr Kwon.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:44 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:I think Kwon will be the odd man out. We can't re-sign all 4 of those guys without creating holes elsewhere. Ali is an interesting one to keep an eye on as well. Jensen is already making $10mil next season. Donovan you would have to assume would be at least $10mil. Giving another Olineman $10mil+ will be a bit much, right?(going off of the Panthers/Norwell situation).

Before Licht could easily just cut underachieving players with high cap numbers. Now he'll have to cut good players with high cap numbers. Maybe even restructure deals, give out signing bonuses, etc. Going to be a challenge for him.


The Bucs should be able to re-sign Humphries for pretty cheap.

In regards to the Oline teams (Cowboys, Raiders) have been able to managed to have 3 highly paid Olinemen so the Bucs can make it work with Smith-Marpet-Jensen. That would mean we'd need a rookie contract or cheap vet manning the other two starting spots.

As long as the Bucs keep Mike Greenberg around we'll be in good shape cap wise. Licht just has to decide who stays and who has to go (I agree those decisions will be increasingly difficult in the coming years) and then let Greenberg figure out how.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Konatown » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:59 pm

One could also make the argument it’s easier to find/replace a Good MLB than a good OL player.

I like Kwon, and hope we keep him around. But if he’s looking to be the highest paid MLB in the league I’d take a pass. Luke Keuchly he is not.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby GameTime » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:07 pm

Cheb wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:I think Kwon will be the odd man out. We can't re-sign all 4 of those guys without creating holes elsewhere. Ali is an interesting one to keep an eye on as well. Jensen is already making $10mil next season. Donovan you would have to assume would be at least $10mil. Giving another Olineman $10mil+ will be a bit much, right?(going off of the Panthers/Norwell situation).

Before Licht could easily just cut underachieving players with high cap numbers. Now he'll have to cut good players with high cap numbers. Maybe even restructure deals, give out signing bonuses, etc. Going to be a challenge for him.


You're not wrong. Before this offseason, we had the resources to comfortably secure Winston, D Smith, Marpet, and Kwon. After the sizeable contracts we gave out, not so much anymore. We are in a win-now mode from a salary cap perspective at the very least.

If we restructure JPP's contract, reducing his current $11,250,000 base salary to the veteran minimum and rolling over the remainder into a signing bonus that pro-rates over the remaining years of his contract, that would save about $7 million this year. I would think that this would be a good place to start, and if I were Jason Licht I would be talking with JPP's agent in the next couple of months.

If Sweezy walks the plank, that $5,250,000 in savings. Add that to the JPP restructure and we would be sitting at $12.25 million in created cap space.

When Grimes' and Fitzpatrick's salaries fall off the books next year, and assuming they aren't resigned, that frees up about $10 million. Combine that with JPP and Sweezy, we're sitting at $22.25 million in cap room.

Even with that, that could maybe sign two of the three of Smith, Marpet, and Kwon. Someone's gotta go. And I agree, that guy is most likely Mr Kwon.
this is a good thing, right? Last year "we" wanted DL help. Now we possibly got some of it, and we are arguing about fixing the problem with guys from UTSA and late round finds? For years I've read that our contracts are structured team friendly, and for years we've lost with the players we are worried about re-signing.

Cheb, my post isnt directed at you, just that isnt it a good thing to be near the cap? We as fans are upset when we have cap space also!
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:13 pm

GameTime wrote:
Cheb wrote:
You're not wrong. Before this offseason, we had the resources to comfortably secure Winston, D Smith, Marpet, and Kwon. After the sizeable contracts we gave out, not so much anymore. We are in a win-now mode from a salary cap perspective at the very least.

If we restructure JPP's contract, reducing his current $11,250,000 base salary to the veteran minimum and rolling over the remainder into a signing bonus that pro-rates over the remaining years of his contract, that would save about $7 million this year. I would think that this would be a good place to start, and if I were Jason Licht I would be talking with JPP's agent in the next couple of months.

If Sweezy walks the plank, that $5,250,000 in savings. Add that to the JPP restructure and we would be sitting at $12.25 million in created cap space.

When Grimes' and Fitzpatrick's salaries fall off the books next year, and assuming they aren't resigned, that frees up about $10 million. Combine that with JPP and Sweezy, we're sitting at $22.25 million in cap room.

Even with that, that could maybe sign two of the three of Smith, Marpet, and Kwon. Someone's gotta go. And I agree, that guy is most likely Mr Kwon.
this is a good thing, right? Last year "we" wanted DL help. Now we possibly got some of it, and we are arguing about fixing the problem with guys from UTSA and late round finds? For years I've read that our contracts are structured team friendly, and for years we've lost with the players we are worried about re-signing.

Cheb, my post isnt directed at you, just that isnt it a good thing to be near the cap? We as fans are upset when we have cap space also!


No it's a great thing. Our team has more talent, we're becoming competitive and developing players. It's a good problem to have. The hard work will be on our GM and payroll staff to make the decisions on who stays/goes/gets paid.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby GameTime » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:24 pm

Agree. Now let's just cross our fingers that licht can get it figured out and winston is who we want him to be!
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Naismith » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:42 pm

If the Bucs can get to the point where they can't afford to compete with the market to keep players, that will result in better compensatory picks and a cheap infusion of depth and talent. It sucks to see someone walk that they'd like to keep, but it's a good way to gain assets.
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Re: ***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:48 pm

Naismith wrote:If the Bucs can get to the point where they can't afford to compete with the market to keep players, that will result in better compensatory picks and a cheap infusion of depth and talent. It sucks to see someone walk that they'd like to keep, but it's a good way to gain assets.


It means you as an organization are doing it the right way. Building your own talent thru the draft. Answers come not from off the street but within your own building. Instead of throwing big money at another teams 6th or 7th round pick from 4 years ago you're re-signing your own 6th or 7th round picks from 4 years ago.
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