***OFFICIAL 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Off-Season Thread!***

[Jason Bourne]

Not saying you're wrong but could you show your work there? List the starters...

DE Taven Bryan
DT Vea
DE Chubb

LOLB
MLB
MLB
ROLB

Wait .. what did you do with our all pro DT ?

[Super K]

Looks like he traded him for picks..

[Bootz2004]

Looks like he traded him for picks..

Yep because that's the only way we're getting Vea and Chubb on the same team.

[mdb1958]

Looks like he traded him for picks..

Yep because that's the only way we're getting Vea and Chubb on the same team.

Could we even get one of those three for McCoy, I've got my doubts about how bad other teams would want him.

[Jason Bourne]

Yep because that's the only way we're getting Vea and Chubb on the same team.

Could we even get one of those three for McCoy, I've got my doubts about how bad other teams would want him.

I would say McCoy is better than all 3 at this point

[Sammich]

McCoy is one of the guys who would benefit the most from switching to a 3-4. We could use him the same way the Rams use Donald in more of a DT-DT-DE front. McDonald and Gholston would shine, too.

[theBKwhopper]

McCoy is one of the guys who would benefit the most from switching to a 3-4. We could use him the same way the Rams use Donald in more of a DT-DT-DE front. McDonald and Gholston would shine, too.

Really? I read a really intense breakdown of our defense as a 3-4. They said McCoy would be wasted in it

[Jason Bourne]

McCoy is one of the guys who would benefit the most from switching to a 3-4. We could use him the same way the Rams use Donald in more of a DT-DT-DE front. McDonald and Gholston would shine, too.

Pretty sure McCoy was asked earlier this year because we already play 3-4 sometimes . He doesn’t like it .

[mdb1958]

McCoy is one of the guys who would benefit the most from switching to a 3-4. We could use him the same way the Rams use Donald in more of a DT-DT-DE front. McDonald and Gholston would shine, too.

Pretty sure McCoy was asked earlier this year because we already play 3-4 sometimes . He doesn’t like it .

Would you call that, lack of desire to excel in scheme versatility?

[mdb1958]

Would he call that, lack of desire to excel in scheme versatility?

[Mountaineer Buc]

Would he call that, lack of desire to excel in scheme versatility?

[Super K]

Would he...call that..lack of desire..to excel..in scheme versatility?

(Christopher Walken voice)

[Cheb]

McCoy is one of the guys who would benefit the most from switching to a 3-4. We could use him the same way the Rams use Donald in more of a DT-DT-DE front. McDonald and Gholston would shine, too.

Really? I read a really intense breakdown of our defense as a 3-4. They said McCoy would be wasted in it

I see this kind of thing all the time, and frankly it is wrong.

Bruce Smith, he with the most career sacks in NFL history, was a 3-4 defensive end. JJ Watt, he who when healthy is one of the best players in the NFL, tied with LT with three Defensive Player of the Year awards, is also a 3-4 defensive end. Saying that a player can't execute a pass rush or get sacks as a 3-4 end is lazy thinking that doesn't play out historically.

If you put Gerald McCoy head up on an offensive lineman, that lineman is in a difficult place. Because if the defensive coordinator is smart, he tells Gerald that he has a two-way go, meaning that on the snap he can go to either gap, and the linebacker behind him will "make him right" by taking the gap that Gerald doesn't. Watt and Cushing have done this their entire careers on the Texans.

When Gerald lines up in the gap as a undertackle, he is declaring his intent. The majority of the time, unless he is stunting, he is going to rush that gap hard. The offensive lineman therefore knows which side Gerald is declaring the threat, and fast bails to cover the threatened gap. The advantage is that Gerald is closer to the gap and thus penetration; the disadvantage is that the offensive lineman knows that and can play accordingly.

Now, if Gerald is head up and can go either way? Well, the offensive lineman cannot overcommit to a single gap. He has to play Gerald square and defend the gaps on either side equally. This slows him down, and a talented defensive lineman can take advantage. In which case, without help, he is in trouble, because it gives Gerald more options on how he wants to go about his business.

As is, Gerald as an undertackle is basically an interior defensive end, when all goes according to plan. If he went to 3-4 end, that wouldn't be the end (no pun intended) of his productivity. If he's talented, he will make it work.

"But Cheb, look at Sapp and Oakland!" Different story. Sapp was given two-gap responsiblities and to not penetrate the LoS. We would ask Gerald to play his penetrating game, just not tip his assignment to the offensive line.

[Jason Bourne]

Would he...call that..lack of desire..to excel..in scheme versatility?

(Christopher Walken voice)

That’s better ... Walken is the best

[theBKwhopper]

Really? I read a really intense breakdown of our defense as a 3-4. They said McCoy would be wasted in it

I see this kind of thing all the time, and frankly it is wrong.

Bruce Smith, he with the most career sacks in NFL history, was a 3-4 defensive end. JJ Watt, he who when healthy is one of the best players in the NFL, tied with LT with three Defensive Player of the Year awards, is also a 3-4 defensive end. Saying that a player can't execute a pass rush or get sacks as a 3-4 end is lazy thinking that doesn't play out historically.

If you put Gerald McCoy head up on an offensive lineman, that lineman is in a difficult place. Because if the defensive coordinator is smart, he tells Gerald that he has a two-way go, meaning that on the snap he can go to either gap, and the linebacker behind him will "make him right" by taking the gap that Gerald doesn't. Watt and Cushing have done this their entire careers on the Texans.

When Gerald lines up in the gap as a undertackle, he is declaring his intent. The majority of the time, unless he is stunting, he is going to rush that gap hard. The offensive lineman therefore knows which side Gerald is declaring the threat, and fast bails to cover the threatened gap. The advantage is that Gerald is closer to the gap and thus penetration; the disadvantage is that the offensive lineman knows that and can play accordingly.

Now, if Gerald is head up and can go either way? Well, the offensive lineman cannot overcommit to a single gap. He has to play Gerald square and defend the gaps on either side equally. This slows him down, and a talented defensive lineman can take advantage. In which case, without help, he is in trouble, because it gives Gerald more options on how he wants to go about his business.

As is, Gerald as an undertackle is basically an interior defensive end, when all goes according to plan. If he went to 3-4 end, that wouldn't be the end (no pun intended) of his productivity. If he's talented, he will make it work.

"But Cheb, look at Sapp and Oakland!" Different story. Sapp was given two-gap responsiblities and to not penetrate the LoS. We would ask Gerald to play his penetrating game, just not tip his assignment to the offensive line.

Thanks, Cheb. That makes sense

[theBKwhopper]

Would he...call that..lack of desire..to excel..in scheme versatility?

(Christopher Walken voice)

Ha!

[Caradoc]

Wrong thread

[mdb1958]

Really? I read a really intense breakdown of our defense as a 3-4. They said McCoy would be wasted in it

I see this kind of thing all the time, and frankly it is wrong.

Bruce Smith, he with the most career sacks in NFL history, was a 3-4 defensive end. JJ Watt, he who when healthy is one of the best players in the NFL, tied with LT with three Defensive Player of the Year awards, is also a 3-4 defensive end. Saying that a player can't execute a pass rush or get sacks as a 3-4 end is lazy thinking that doesn't play out historically.

If you put Gerald McCoy head up on an offensive lineman, that lineman is in a difficult place. Because if the defensive coordinator is smart, he tells Gerald that he has a two-way go, meaning that on the snap he can go to either gap, and the linebacker behind him will "make him right" by taking the gap that Gerald doesn't. Watt and Cushing have done this their entire careers on the Texans.

When Gerald lines up in the gap as a undertackle, he is declaring his intent. The majority of the time, unless he is stunting, he is going to rush that gap hard. The offensive lineman therefore knows which side Gerald is declaring the threat, and fast bails to cover the threatened gap. The advantage is that Gerald is closer to the gap and thus penetration; the disadvantage is that the offensive lineman knows that and can play accordingly.

Now, if Gerald is head up and can go either way? Well, the offensive lineman cannot overcommit to a single gap. He has to play Gerald square and defend the gaps on either side equally. This slows him down, and a talented defensive lineman can take advantage. In which case, without help, he is in trouble, because it gives Gerald more options on how he wants to go about his business.

As is, Gerald as an undertackle is basically an interior defensive end, when all goes according to plan. If he went to 3-4 end, that wouldn't be the end (no pun intended) of his productivity. If he's talented, he will make it work.

"But Cheb, look at Sapp and Oakland!" Different story. Sapp was given two-gap responsiblities and to not penetrate the LoS. We would ask Gerald to play his penetrating game, just not tip his assignment to the offensive line.

Did Cheb just agree with me? If anyone has a clip of McCoy getting a sack as a DE I'd like to see it! 4-3 or 3-4

[MJW]

Aaron Donald, 2016, as a three tech - 16 Games, 8 Sacks
Aaron Donald, 2017, as a five tech - 14 Games, 11 sacks

[beardmcdoug]

For anyone's that's interested, mdb pointed me towards the espn team stats rankings on the RB draft scouting thread... annnnnd its friday... so I went through the rankings and made this:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total

The end of the year, stat-based post-mortem:

- we moved the ball very well through the air, just didn't capitalize in the red zone
(we were first in the league in total passing 1st downs gained - 10 more than next closest, new england. and we were #4 in the league in 3rd down conversions, and 4th total passing yards, but we were middle of the road in TD's, Rating, and Scoring.)

- but we sucked at running the ball
(27th in rushing yards, 27th in YPC (3.7), 25th in TDs (8))

- our defense was the absolutely terrible at getting at the opposing quarterback
(last in league with 22 sacks)

- which led to teams passing all over us,
(worst in total pass yards allowed, allowing 6th best QB rating of opposing QB's, allowed 4th most yards per pass)

- ...whenever they felt like it
(worst in the league at getting off the field on 3rd down, 6th worst at letting up first downs overall)

- However, as well as teams threw against us, they didn't exactly blow us up on the scoreboard through the passing game
(12th in passing TD's allowed)

- The real scoring damage came against our run defense
(where we let up 3rd most rushing TD's - 17)

- We slightly shot ourselves in the foot with penalties
(offense was 15th most, defense was 12th most)

- We didn't cause that many fumbles, but when we did, we actually had quite a few bounces go our way
(Our defense caused 14 fumbles, and we recovered 13. Raiders caused the most, with 30, but only had 13 recovered)

- But our offense basically offset those
(we fumbled 13 times, second most in the league, and we ended up with a -1 TO ratio, putting us right in the middle of the pack. Baltimore had the best at +17)

- Our kickoff coverage didn't do us any favors
(gave up the most total return yards in the league, and were 3rd worst on a per-kickoff return basis at 24.8 yds per. And we were the only team in the league to surrender 2 kickoff TD's)

- And neither did our kickoff return team
(second least return yards in the league)

- But it wasn't all the return team's fault
(we also had the second least number of return tries - and were middle of the road, 17th, in yards per return)

- And despite being pretty good at returning punts (6th best), we had the fewest opportunities in the league to do so, which put our total punt return yards at 6th worst.

- We kicked, and opponents kicked middle of the road number of field goals
(14th most, and 18th most, respectively)

- but our kicking game was one of the least accurate
(28th in accuracy)

- with us missing about half of the kicks we took from 40+
(9 for 17)

- ... whereas opposing teams kicked pretty pretty accurately from beyond 40
(9 for 12)

So all in all, a generic version of a game that these stats tell the story of is, a game where:

Opposing team starts off with good field position against us with a good kickoff return, they move the ball through the air with ease on us, then punch it in on the ground for touchdown. We get the ball back, try to establish the run, get shut down, and punt. We cover the punt well. But the opposing team drives down the field with ease on us again with a methodical time consuming drive, and score. Now down by multiple scores, we start going to the air, we move the ball very well through the air, and we start to make a game out of it. Throughout the game, we throw up a hail mary kick or two and probably miss one, and the other team probably doesn't. We have just enough balls bounce our way to stay in it, but feeling absolutely no pressure, the opposing QB has his way with our defense, and they go down and close out the game and come away with the victory against us.

Yup. Sounds about like what we watched all season, and the stats back it up

[Jason Bourne]

I could of saved you some time

[beardmcdoug]

I know, but sometimes it's nice when the stats back up what you feel like you're watching. What struck me just how good we were on 3rd down, how relatively few passing TDs we gave up, how bad we were at kickoff coverage, and the rate at which fumbles went our way

[DanTurksGhost]

- we moved the ball very well through the air, just didn't capitalize in the red zone

As I stated all season long, our goal-to-go offense was pretty unfortunate. Koetter has to get better at that if he's retaining play-calling duties.

Fix our goal-to-go offense and fix our 3rd down defense and you're looking at a potential 5 game swing.

[theBKwhopper]

- we moved the ball very well through the air, just didn't capitalize in the red zone

As I stated all season long, our goal-to-go offense was pretty unfortunate. Koetter has to get better at that if he's retaining play-calling duties.

Fix our goal-to-go offense and fix our 3rd down defense and you're looking at a potential 5 game swing.

His playcalling is pretty bad in the red zone.

[IchabodCrane84]

For anyone's that's interested, mdb pointed me towards the espn team stats rankings on the RB draft scouting thread... annnnnd its friday... so I went through the rankings and made this:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total

The end of the year, stat-based post-mortem:

- we moved the ball very well through the air, just didn't capitalize in the red zone
(we were first in the league in total passing 1st downs gained - 10 more than next closest, new england. and we were #4 in the league in 3rd down conversions, and 4th total passing yards, but we were middle of the road in TD's, Rating, and Scoring.)

- but we sucked at running the ball
(27th in rushing yards, 27th in YPC (3.7), 25th in TDs (8))

- our defense was the absolutely terrible at getting at the opposing quarterback
(last in league with 22 sacks)

- which led to teams passing all over us,
(worst in total pass yards allowed, allowing 6th best QB rating of opposing QB's, allowed 4th most yards per pass)

- ...whenever they felt like it
(worst in the league at getting off the field on 3rd down, 6th worst at letting up first downs overall)

- However, as well as teams threw against us, they didn't exactly blow us up on the scoreboard through the passing game
(12th in passing TD's allowed)

- The real scoring damage came against our run defense
(where we let up 3rd most rushing TD's - 17)

- We slightly shot ourselves in the foot with penalties
(offense was 15th most, defense was 12th most)

- We didn't cause that many fumbles, but when we did, we actually had quite a few bounces go our way
(Our defense caused 14 fumbles, and we recovered 13. Raiders caused the most, with 30, but only had 13 recovered)

- But our offense basically offset those
(we fumbled 13 times, second most in the league, and we ended up with a -1 TO ratio, putting us right in the middle of the pack. Baltimore had the best at +17)

- Our kickoff coverage didn't do us any favors
(gave up the most total return yards in the league, and were 3rd worst on a per-kickoff return basis at 24.8 yds per. And we were the only team in the league to surrender 2 kickoff TD's)

- And neither did our kickoff return team
(second least return yards in the league)

- But it wasn't all the return team's fault
(we also had the second least number of return tries - and were middle of the road, 17th, in yards per return)

- And despite being pretty good at returning punts (6th best), we had the fewest opportunities in the league to do so, which put our total punt return yards at 6th worst.

- We kicked, and opponents kicked middle of the road number of field goals
(14th most, and 18th most, respectively)

- but our kicking game was one of the least accurate
(28th in accuracy)

- with us missing about half of the kicks we took from 40+
(9 for 17)

- ... whereas opposing teams kicked pretty pretty accurately from beyond 40
(9 for 12)

So all in all, a generic version of a game that these stats tell the story of is, a game where:

Opposing team starts off with good field position against us with a good kickoff return, they move the ball through the air with ease on us, then punch it in on the ground for touchdown. We get the ball back, try to establish the run, get shut down, and punt. We cover the punt well. But the opposing team drives down the field with ease on us again with a methodical time consuming drive, and score. Now down by multiple scores, we start going to the air, we move the ball very well through the air, and we start to make a game out of it. Throughout the game, we throw up a hail mary kick or two and probably miss one, and the other team probably doesn't. We have just enough balls bounce our way to stay in it, but feeling absolutely no pressure, the opposing QB has his way with our defense, and they go down and close out the game and come away with the victory against us.

Yup. Sounds about like what we watched all season, and the stats back it up

Good stuff man, thanks!

[PrimeMinister]

For anyone's that's interested, mdb pointed me towards the espn team stats rankings on the RB draft scouting thread... annnnnd its friday... so I went through the rankings and made this:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total

The end of the year, stat-based post-mortem:

- we moved the ball very well through the air, just didn't capitalize in the red zone
(we were first in the league in total passing 1st downs gained - 10 more than next closest, new england. and we were #4 in the league in 3rd down conversions, and 4th total passing yards, but we were middle of the road in TD's, Rating, and Scoring.)

- but we sucked at running the ball
(27th in rushing yards, 27th in YPC (3.7), 25th in TDs (8))

- our defense was the absolutely terrible at getting at the opposing quarterback
(last in league with 22 sacks)

- which led to teams passing all over us,
(worst in total pass yards allowed, allowing 6th best QB rating of opposing QB's, allowed 4th most yards per pass)

- ...whenever they felt like it
(worst in the league at getting off the field on 3rd down, 6th worst at letting up first downs overall)

- However, as well as teams threw against us, they didn't exactly blow us up on the scoreboard through the passing game
(12th in passing TD's allowed)

- The real scoring damage came against our run defense
(where we let up 3rd most rushing TD's - 17)

- We slightly shot ourselves in the foot with penalties
(offense was 15th most, defense was 12th most)

- We didn't cause that many fumbles, but when we did, we actually had quite a few bounces go our way
(Our defense caused 14 fumbles, and we recovered 13. Raiders caused the most, with 30, but only had 13 recovered)

- But our offense basically offset those
(we fumbled 13 times, second most in the league, and we ended up with a -1 TO ratio, putting us right in the middle of the pack. Baltimore had the best at +17)

- Our kickoff coverage didn't do us any favors
(gave up the most total return yards in the league, and were 3rd worst on a per-kickoff return basis at 24.8 yds per. And we were the only team in the league to surrender 2 kickoff TD's)

- And neither did our kickoff return team
(second least return yards in the league)

- But it wasn't all the return team's fault
(we also had the second least number of return tries - and were middle of the road, 17th, in yards per return)

- And despite being pretty good at returning punts (6th best), we had the fewest opportunities in the league to do so, which put our total punt return yards at 6th worst.

- We kicked, and opponents kicked middle of the road number of field goals
(14th most, and 18th most, respectively)

- but our kicking game was one of the least accurate
(28th in accuracy)

- with us missing about half of the kicks we took from 40+
(9 for 17)

- ... whereas opposing teams kicked pretty pretty accurately from beyond 40
(9 for 12)

So all in all, a generic version of a game that these stats tell the story of is, a game where:

Opposing team starts off with good field position against us with a good kickoff return, they move the ball through the air with ease on us, then punch it in on the ground for touchdown. We get the ball back, try to establish the run, get shut down, and punt. We cover the punt well. But the opposing team drives down the field with ease on us again with a methodical time consuming drive, and score. Now down by multiple scores, we start going to the air, we move the ball very well through the air, and we start to make a game out of it. Throughout the game, we throw up a hail mary kick or two and probably miss one, and the other team probably doesn't. We have just enough balls bounce our way to stay in it, but feeling absolutely no pressure, the opposing QB has his way with our defense, and they go down and close out the game and come away with the victory against us.

Yup. Sounds about like what we watched all season, and the stats back it up

Great work and the breakdown at the end is gold. It’s damn near a play by play of the season. Excellent work.

[Mex-Buc]

Jason Licht addresses the Bucs season in an interview with the Times:

Link: http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/bucs/2018 ... to-fix-it/

Basically he's blaming injuries to our lack of pass rush, which he expected from Jaques Smith and Spence, and also from Jameis Winston..

Yeah, how about your FA signings in Baker and Ward, useless aged players...

[MJW]

Basically he's blaming injuries to our lack of pass rush, which he expected from Jaques Smith and Spence, and also from Jameis Winston..

Because no team has ever overcome injuries before. I wonder if it dawned on him that after four offseasons as GM, the lack of depth on the 53 might be HIS fault?

[Bootz2004]

Mex its as if you didn't read the article you posted. Licht was extremely honest here and called out the performance of several players. Yes injuries were mentioned but he didn't use that as the main reason for the way the year went.

It is great to see that he's well aware of the issues this team has and that the defense needs to be addressed more than it is.

[real bucs fan]

Basically he's blaming injuries to our lack of pass rush, which he expected from Jaques Smith and Spence, and also from Jameis Winston..

Because no team has ever overcome injuries before. I wonder if it dawned on him that after four offseasons as GM, the lack of depth on the 53 might be HIS fault?

I definitely do blame Licht for last years failures, not addressing the run game or pass rush, but outside of those 2 positions we actually have pretty good depth across the board. Just having no edges or running backs killed us... But QB, WR, OL, TE, DT, LB, CB, and S all featured good depth.