Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

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Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby DanTurksGhost » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:02 pm

We all know Winston needs to improve on his ball security. Despite missing 3 games this season he logged a worst-ever seven lost fumbles. He's actually worst in the league for that. Todd Monken says the QB fumbles are as catastrophic as INT's. Winston gets a well-deserved pat on the back for improving on his INT's. Let's hope that he takes a similar step forward on the fumbles. Shoring up the OL would help in that regard as well.

Article:

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/football ... _164008857

Love what I saw from him these past two games, despite I think being the only QB ever to post back-to-back games with a 130+ passer rating AND both games ending in a loss for his team.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:39 am

Maybe he can work on making his turnovers look less catastrophic this offseason. :idea:
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby sanka » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:44 am

Get him a good o-line ....because they can't complain about his ints this season they look for other negative to point to distract from their incompetency as coaches. When will there ever be an article about the o-line, defensive units...getting him a RB....Its Winston this or that.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby MJW » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:09 am

sanka wrote:Get him a good o-line ....because they can't complain about his ints this season they look for other negative to point to distract from their incompetency as coaches. When will there ever be an article about the o-line, defensive units...getting him a RB....Its Winston this or that.


That's called being the quarterback. You don't get it both ways. You're so eager to call him a franchise quarterback? You don't get to blame his shortcomings on his teammates if that's what he is. He's supposed to make THEM better, not the other way around. And regardless, I don't care if you're his mother, it's pretty apparent that his fumbling is a big problem right now.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby sanka » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:12 am

MJW wrote:
sanka wrote:Get him a good o-line ....because they can't complain about his ints this season they look for other negative to point to distract from their incompetency as coaches. When will there ever be an article about the o-line, defensive units...getting him a RB....Its Winston this or that.


That's called being the quarterback. You don't get it both ways. You're so eager to call him a franchise quarterback? You don't get to blame his shortcomings on his teammates if that's what he is. He's supposed to make THEM better, not the other way around. And regardless, I don't care if you're his mother, it's pretty apparent that his fumbling is a big problem right now.

Funny he had only 2 in his rookie season and 5 I believe in his College career. He is known to turn it over but not with fumbles. The guy barely has 1 secs to throw immediately after snapping the ball.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby PetePierson » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:35 am

Is there anyone on this board who knows less about the game than Folgers?
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby Rocker » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:04 am

PetePierson wrote:Is there anyone on this board who knows less about the game than Folgers?


tjax03?
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby PetePierson » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:18 am

Rocker wrote:
tjax03?


Touche
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby real bucs fan » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:28 am

I think the fumbles are partly a byproduct of Winston forcing the ball less. He will always have a never say die mentality, but at least right now he isn't forcing the ball. He is however holding onto it too long in the pocket waiting for something and that's making him a sitting duck. He needs to learn that after going through his progressions and nothings there, he needs to put 2 hands on the football, scramble out of the pocket and either run with it or chuck it out of bounds A-Rodg style.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby PetePierson » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:47 pm

Rbf may want to walk that post back.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby DanTurksGhost » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:55 pm

real bucs fan wrote:I think the fumbles are partly a byproduct of Winston forcing the ball less. He will always have a never say die mentality, but at least right now he isn't forcing the ball. He is however holding onto it too long in the pocket waiting for something and that's making him a sitting duck. He needs to learn that after going through his progressions and nothings there, he needs to put 2 hands on the football, scramble out of the pocket and either run with it or chuck it out of bounds A-Rodg style.


Anything but throwing it completely up for grabs in the end zone or into quadruple coverage. Winston must really, really hate FG's.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby Buc2 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:12 pm

DanTurksGhost wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:I think the fumbles are partly a byproduct of Winston forcing the ball less. He will always have a never say die mentality, but at least right now he isn't forcing the ball. He is however holding onto it too long in the pocket waiting for something and that's making him a sitting duck. He needs to learn that after going through his progressions and nothings there, he needs to put 2 hands on the football, scramble out of the pocket and either run with it or chuck it out of bounds A-Rodg style.


Anything but throwing it completely up for grabs in the end zone or into quadruple coverage. Winston must really, really hate FG's.

That or he thinks they'll be missed. The Aguayo/Folk debacle fucked with his head. heh
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby pewterpirates » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:12 pm

sanka wrote:Get him a good o-line ....because they can't complain about his ints this season they look for other negative to point to distract from their incompetency as coaches. When will there ever be an article about the o-line, defensive units...getting him a RB....Its Winston this or that.


What about today? IIRC all 3 of his INTs today were on plays where he had plenty of time. Can't blame those on the OL.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby DanTurksGhost » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:27 pm

Buc2 wrote:ks they'll be missed. The Aguayo/Folk debacle fucked with his head. heh


Hmmm. Interesting theory. Something I never thought of. Winston isn't making stupid mistakes, he just has no confidence in the kicking game.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby DanTurksGhost » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:29 pm

pewterpirates wrote:What about today? IIRC all 3 of his INTs today were on plays where he had plenty of time. Can't blame those on the OL.


From where I sat, he should have had a couple more INT's as well. But fortunately for us, he didn't. I really loved the opening drive. Had my hopes very high. It all fell apart, but they pulled it out in the end.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby UbuntuBuc » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:53 pm

I wonder if we could borrow John Lynch to help us find some decent free agents this off season.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby Ken Carson » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:55 pm

DanTurksGhost wrote:
pewterpirates wrote:What about today? IIRC all 3 of his INTs today were on plays where he had plenty of time. Can't blame those on the OL.


From where I sat, he should have had a couple more INT's as well. But fortunately for us, he didn't. I really loved the opening drive. Had my hopes very high. It all fell apart, but they pulled it out in the end.


He started well and ended great. It's the highs and lows you get with him. He has to improve on his turnovers, no doubt.

But food for thought:
28, 15, 15, 23, and 19

Those were Peyton Manning's INT numbers his first 5 years.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby DanTurksGhost » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:57 pm

Ken Carson wrote:But food for thought:
28, 15, 15, 23, and 19

Those were Peyton Manning's INT numbers his first 5 years.


Oh, I know. And I would have no issue with anyone back then who complained about them.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby Eastwood » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:21 am

UbuntuBuc wrote:I wonder if we could borrow John Lynch to help us find some decent free agents this off season.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby Kress » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:02 am

In theory, this is a silly comparison . If he slings the ball 30 yards and it's picked off, well at least that's 30 yards. If he fumbles behind the line of scrimmage, that's automatically worse. Given either could be returned somehow, but at least the pass was downfield.

Either way, a turnover is a turnover. Don't do either, and we won't have to message board debate the severity of bad.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:05 am

Kress wrote:Either way, a turnover is a turnover. Don't do either, and we won't have to message board debate the severity of bad.


Yea I forget who was the last QB to never turn the ball over? What's his name again, it's on the tip of my tongue....
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby Kress » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:17 am

Bootz2018.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:22 am

Kress wrote:Bootz2018.


Precisely..
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby Sammich » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:16 pm

DanTurksGhost wrote:
pewterpirates wrote:What about today? IIRC all 3 of his INTs today were on plays where he had plenty of time. Can't blame those on the OL.


From where I sat, he should have had a couple more INT's as well. But fortunately for us, he didn't. I really loved the opening drive. Had my hopes very high. It all fell apart, but they pulled it out in the end.


Yeah, The Saints D straight up dropped 2 ints. Hit them right in the hands. We got lucky for sure.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby bearlandbucfan » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:13 pm

Both suck and both are a problem. He definitely needs to work on his ball control. I think I agree on Kress though. An INT is actually an attempt, and many times isn't entirely on the QB. A fumble just like a RB is entirely on the QB and does automatically result in an advancement of the ball by the opponent. Neither are good. Both need to be corrected.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby deltbucs » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:28 pm

A fumble is as bad as a INT. Yeah, no ****.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby sanka » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:20 pm

INTs in First 45 career NFL starts:

Jameis – 44
Peyton – 58
Brady – 38
Big Ben – 46
Elway – 53
Stafford – 54
Marino – 50
Eli – 52
Luck – 40
Brees – 41
Montana – 40
Favre – 50
Unitas – 51
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:26 pm

sanka wrote:INTs in First 45 career NFL starts:

Jameis – 44
Peyton – 58
Brady – 38
Big Ben – 46
Elway – 53
Stafford – 54
Marino – 50
Eli – 52
Luck – 40
Brees – 41
Montana – 40
Favre – 50
Unitas – 51



Put up their won/loss record - toe rot.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby sanka » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:28 pm

mdb1958 wrote:
sanka wrote:INTs in First 45 career NFL starts:

Jameis – 44
Peyton – 58
Brady – 38
Big Ben – 46
Elway – 53
Stafford – 54
Marino – 50
Eli – 52
Luck – 40
Brees – 41
Montana – 40
Favre – 50
Unitas – 51



Put up their won/loss record - toe rot.


You can do the honor.
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Re: Monken: Winston's fumbles as "catastrophic" as INT's

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:31 pm

The relevance would not be magnified in your favor.
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