Head Coach Discussion Thread

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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:43 am

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
And just like that you're back to showing your bias for RBs and your lack of knowledge as it pertains to football.

Athletic ability was what made Richardson so damn appealing. Richardson is big, powerful, fast, agile, quick, has great acceleration. His athletic ability made him an easy top prospect. He won the Heisman off of his athletic ability. When he got to the league it was the other things that hindered him. His vision never got better. He was horrible as a route runner and pass catcher. He also couldn't stay healthy to save his life. As a result he was very hesitant as a runner and didn't get the most out of his runs. The same could just as easily happen for Barkley but you seem to think he's a lock to succeed. He's not. Athletically he and Richardson aren't far off from each other. Barkley will have to do well in other areas.

Richardson had a big body, and in a straight line had good explosiveness, but Barkley is otherworldly in terms of his agility.

Richardson benefited greatly from that Bama offence. Barkley IS the Penn State offence. Major difference.


You have no idea what you're talking about. None what so ever. It's not even a debate, it's a fact. You really have no clue. If that's all you think Trent Richardson was, you're an idiot.
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:44 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Richardson had a big body, and in a straight line had good explosiveness, but Barkley is otherworldly in terms of his agility.

Richardson benefited greatly from that Bama offence. Barkley IS the Penn State offence. Major difference.


You have no idea what you're talking about. None what so ever. It's not even a debate, it's a fact. You really have no clue. If that's all you think Trent Richardson was, you're an idiot.

So you're doubling down on your Trent Richardson love, and I'm the idiot? Impressive.
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:48 am

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
You have no idea what you're talking about. None what so ever. It's not even a debate, it's a fact. You really have no clue. If that's all you think Trent Richardson was, you're an idiot.

So you're doubling down on your Trent Richardson love, and I'm the idiot? Impressive.


It's not Trent Richardson love. It's facts. His athletic ability wasn't a problem. He was/is a great athlete. But the idea that he was just a big body with good explosiveness in a straight line is idiocy and shows that you're not up to speed on him as a prospect at all. And yes, you are the idiot. Everyone realizes it except you.
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:51 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:So you're doubling down on your Trent Richardson love, and I'm the idiot? Impressive.


It's not Trent Richardson love. It's facts. His athletic ability wasn't a problem. He was/is a great athlete. But the idea that he was just a big body with good explosiveness in a straight line is idiocy and shows that you're not up to speed on him as a prospect at all. And yes, you are the idiot. Everyone realizes it except you.

I just get proven right, again and again...

But keep comparing Barkley to Richardson... you're just going to look even stupider when I bump this in a year....
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:58 am

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
It's not Trent Richardson love. It's facts. His athletic ability wasn't a problem. He was/is a great athlete. But the idea that he was just a big body with good explosiveness in a straight line is idiocy and shows that you're not up to speed on him as a prospect at all. And yes, you are the idiot. Everyone realizes it except you.

I just get proven right, again and again...

But keep comparing Barkley to Richardson... you're just going to look even stupider when I bump this in a year....


The only thing you're proving is that you're an idiot that knows zero about football.

The Barkley/Richardson comparison isn't in terms of how Barkley projects as a pro. It's comparing their athletic ability but again you're too stupid to get it.
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:03 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:I just get proven right, again and again...

But keep comparing Barkley to Richardson... you're just going to look even stupider when I bump this in a year....


The only thing you're proving is that you're an idiot that knows zero about football.

The Barkley/Richardson comparison isn't in terms of how Barkley projects as a pro. It's comparing their athletic ability but again you're too stupid to get it.

Explain to me then why you were so keen on Richardson in the top 5, but not Barkley? You can't, because you are forked.
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:14 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
The only thing you're proving is that you're an idiot that knows zero about football.

The Barkley/Richardson comparison isn't in terms of how Barkley projects as a pro. It's comparing their athletic ability but again you're too stupid to get it.

Explain to me then why you were so keen on Richardson in the top 5, but not Barkley? You can't, because you are forked.


Easy. We had a top 5 pick. Richardson was one of the top prospects in the draft. Blount was ineffective as a full time back and fumbled too much. The Oline was great also. We already had Pro Bowler Donald Penn & Davin Joseph and had just signed Carl Nicks, who was arguably the best guard in the league. We had our QB in Freeman and offensive weapons for him to throw to. We just needed a RB.

Barkley would be walking into a different situation. The line needs a ton of work. The defense does as well, namely the pass rush. The NFL is also a different league than it was just 6 seasons ago. RBs can be found in all rounds but you need a line to block for them. This line would waste a top 5 RB. Plus we have larger needs elsewhere. Now do you get it?
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby DanTurksGhost » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:19 pm

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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby Naismith » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:19 pm

I think the pass catching RB that Gruden would fall in love with is already on the roster. If the Bucs do hire him, I think he will make bringing back Sims a priority.

As for Dungy's Bucs, of course they could have won a Super Bowl. They could have won it in 2000. They just didn't win it. It takes both skill and luck to win a Super Bowl. They didn't get the bounces in 2000 but they very easily could have.
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:35 pm

The beauty of having a RB who can both run and catch is that you don't tip off the D with which RB is on the field. #SimsMartin

The best 1-2s in football right now even have 2 guys who can do both. Just look at our division.
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby UbuntuBuc » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:43 pm

Naismith wrote:I think the pass catching RB that Gruden would fall in love with is already on the roster. If the Bucs do hire him, I think he will make bringing back Sims a priority.

As for Dungy's Bucs, of course they could have won a Super Bowl. They could have won it in 2000. They just didn't win it. It takes both skill and luck to win a Super Bowl. They didn't get the bounces in 2000 but they very easily could have.


They got screwed in 2000... and Dungy decided to play Burger Boy.
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby NavyBuc » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:44 pm

Naismith wrote:I think the pass catching RB that Gruden would fall in love with is already on the roster. If the Bucs do hire him, I think he will make bringing back Sims a priority.

As for Dungy's Bucs, of course they could have won a Super Bowl. They could have won it in 2000. They just didn't win it. It takes both skill and luck to win a Super Bowl. They didn't get the bounces in 2000 but they very easily could have.


You need a whole lot of bounces and luck to go your way when you get waxed in the wild card round In Philly like we did that year. We never had the talent on offense with Dungy to get to the next level. Thinking Shaun King was the answer at qb was probably the dumbest mistake Dungy made here. One thing Gruden did was bring in guys that could score some points. While the offense wasn’t fascinating in 2002, it scored and scored a lot in the playoffs, something we couldn’t decide in 3 straight playoff games. Then came the Carolina game in ‘03 where Alstott collided with Jurevicius and it seemed like the offense never recovered.
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:58 pm

I'll say this for rbf....He can have us all agreeing with Bootz.

No small feat.
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:06 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:I'll say this for rbf....He can have us all agreeing with Bootz.

No small feat.

And that should give you pause...
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:09 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:I'll say this for rbf....He can have us all agreeing with Bootz.

No small feat.

And that should give you pause...

Dude you've been getting your ass handed to you for days.
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby Jason Bourne » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:16 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:And that should give you pause...

Dude you've been getting your ass handed to you for days.


Maybe weeks
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby Swashy » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:17 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:I'll say this for rbf....He can have us all agreeing with Bootz.

No small feat.

And that should give you pause...


Dude we do pause. We pause and say "How the ****....?" What do you want, a cookie?
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:26 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:And that should give you pause...

Dude you've been getting your ass handed to you for days.

Not my fault the majority of posters here don't have a friggin clue...

real bucs fan wrote:The stats disagree.

In regards to RB stuffs, we rank 17th in the league- very middle of the pack.
In adjusted line yards, we rank 15th, very middle of the pack.
In power success yards, we rank 15th, very middle of the pack.

So very middle of the pack for all of the OL stats.

In 2nd level yards we rank 31st!
In RB yards, we rank 29th.

So bottom of the barrel in terms of RB play.

To quote Mountaineer Buc:

Mountaineer Buc wrote:That wich is presented with evidence, cannot be refuted without evidence.
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby PrimeMinister » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:28 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
I don't know that anyone is for giving Bell that sort of money. I think it's ridiculous.

Also, Barkley =/= Bell so it's not an apples to apples comparison. Barkley has just as much of a chance to be Trent Richardson than he does Bell.


I'd disagree big time there. Richardson was always fools gold. Barkley's athletic ability alone puts him on a different stratosphere than Rich.


Rbf is right here. TRich wasn’t the prospect Barkley is. I never liked Richardson because he never looked that impressive to me. I tried to get the hype, but it didn’t fit the reality. His ceiling always looked like a back who may do ok behind a great OL, but would be a bottom 10 runner when he had to work behind less than a stellar OL. I didn’t think he would bust as bad as he did , but I wouldn’t have wanted him even in the 3rd.
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:34 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:
I'd disagree big time there. Richardson was always fools gold. Barkley's athletic ability alone puts him on a different stratosphere than Rich.


Rbf is right here. TRich wasn’t the prospect Barkley is. I never liked Richardson because he never looked that impressive to me. I tried to get the hype, but it didn’t fit the reality. His ceiling always looked like a back who may do ok behind a great OL, but would be a bottom 10 runner when he had to work behind less than a stellar OL. I didn’t think he would bust as bad as he did , but I wouldn’t have wanted him even in the 3rd.


My point is/was that Barkley could bust. He's not a sure thing. I was never comparing him as a prospect to Richardson. Many thought Darren McFadden was the best RB prospect ever and he didn't live up to those expectations. It's easy to look back and say, "I didn't think he was that great now". Bell is already a monster in the league, hence why they aren't comparable.
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:38 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:
Rbf is right here. TRich wasn’t the prospect Barkley is. I never liked Richardson because he never looked that impressive to me. I tried to get the hype, but it didn’t fit the reality. His ceiling always looked like a back who may do ok behind a great OL, but would be a bottom 10 runner when he had to work behind less than a stellar OL. I didn’t think he would bust as bad as he did , but I wouldn’t have wanted him even in the 3rd.


My point is/was that Barkley could bust. He's not a sure thing. I was never comparing him as a prospect to Richardson. Many thought Darren McFadden was the best RB prospect ever and he didn't live up to those expectations. It's easy to look back and say, "I didn't think he was that great now". Bell is already a monster in the league, hence why they aren't comparable.

Any player can bust, just takes one freak injury.... heck even FA signings can bust, we should know about that...
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby PrimeMinister » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:43 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:
Rbf is right here. TRich wasn’t the prospect Barkley is. I never liked Richardson because he never looked that impressive to me. I tried to get the hype, but it didn’t fit the reality. His ceiling always looked like a back who may do ok behind a great OL, but would be a bottom 10 runner when he had to work behind less than a stellar OL. I didn’t think he would bust as bad as he did , but I wouldn’t have wanted him even in the 3rd.


My point is/was that Barkley could bust. He's not a sure thing. I was never comparing him as a prospect to Richardson. Many thought Darren McFadden was the best RB prospect ever and he didn't live up to those expectations. It's easy to look back and say, "I didn't think he was that great now". Bell is already a monster in the league, hence why they aren't comparable.


I don’t think anyone would say a prospect is a sure thing. The last sure thing we had in Tampa with a “Pro Bowl ceiling and Pro Bowl floor” changed positions and is playing in Los Angeles.

If TRich and Barkley were in the same class I would take Barkley every time. He is just a better prospect. TRich was an athletic freak, but I just never liked him as a runner.
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:44 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:Dude you've been getting your ass handed to you for days.

Not my fault the majority of posters here don't have a friggin clue...

real bucs fan wrote:The stats disagree.

In regards to RB stuffs, we rank 17th in the league- very middle of the pack.
In adjusted line yards, we rank 15th, very middle of the pack.
In power success yards, we rank 15th, very middle of the pack.

So very middle of the pack for all of the OL stats.

In 2nd level yards we rank 31st!
In RB yards, we rank 29th.

So bottom of the barrel in terms of RB play.

To quote Mountaineer Buc:


27th in rushing yards per game
26th in rushing yards per carry
27th in rushing touchdowns
26th in rushing 1st down percentage
28th in rushes of 20 yards or more
tied for last in rushes of 40 yards or more
25th in attempts per game
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby uscbucsfan » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:47 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
My point is/was that Barkley could bust. He's not a sure thing. I was never comparing him as a prospect to Richardson. Many thought Darren McFadden was the best RB prospect ever and he didn't live up to those expectations. It's easy to look back and say, "I didn't think he was that great now". Bell is already a monster in the league, hence why they aren't comparable.


I don’t think anyone would say a prospect is a sure thing. The last sure thing we had in Tampa with a “Pro Bowl ceiling and Pro Bowl floor” changed positions and is playing in Los Angeles.

If TRich and Barkley were in the same class I would take Barkley every time. He is just a better prospect. TRich was an athletic freak, but I just never liked him as a runner.

Jesus.

Richardson was just an example of worst case scenario. I was not comparing them as prospects, which is subjective to begin with. RBF was questioning why anyone would pay 15 million for Bell when they could draft Barkley and pay him significantly less. I said I don't think Bell is worth that much, they are not apples to apples. Bell is proven in the NFL. Barkley could be trash...it's a complete gamble.

Bootz and RBF ran with the Richardson portion....
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:10 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Not my fault the majority of posters here don't have a friggin clue...


27th in rushing yards per game
26th in rushing yards per carry
27th in rushing touchdowns
26th in rushing 1st down percentage
28th in rushes of 20 yards or more
tied for last in rushes of 40 yards or more
25th in attempts per game

And those stats mean diddly in the chicken vs egg debate of whether the problem is the oline or the RBs.
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:12 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:27th in rushing yards per game
26th in rushing yards per carry
27th in rushing touchdowns
26th in rushing 1st down percentage
28th in rushes of 20 yards or more
tied for last in rushes of 40 yards or more
25th in attempts per game

And those stats mean diddly in the chicken vs egg debate of whether the problem is the oline or the RBs.


No. Most of those stats point to an ineffective line.
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby Jason Bourne » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:14 pm

Terrell Davis had good stats and he was a 6th rd pick if memory serves me right
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:20 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:And those stats mean diddly in the chicken vs egg debate of whether the problem is the oline or the RBs.


No. Most of those stats point to an ineffective line.

lol how? In fact the 20+ and 40+ stats point to the RBs.
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby Cheb » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:46 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
No. Most of those stats point to an ineffective line.

lol how? In fact the 20+ and 40+ stats point to the RBs.


It's hard to run for 20 yards when you can't get into the open field, because there are no holes there.

In any disagreement, if there is only one person on one side of an argument and a crowd on the other side, it stands to reason that the one guy is very likely the wrong one.

RBF gonna RBF.
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Re: Head Coach Discussion Thread

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:47 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
No. Most of those stats point to an ineffective line.

lol how? In fact the 20+ and 40+ stats point to the RBs.


Those 2 metrics,yes. The rest-or like I said MOST-point to the line.
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