Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this season?

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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby Caradoc » Mon Dec 25, 2017 5:51 pm

Cheb wrote:I'm not alone when I say that I expected a playoff-caliber team. The suck has been a team effort. I am encouraged that our losses have been, by and large, close against good competition.

I did not expect Baker to be this bad. He is a cautionary tale showing that you can't treat practice like a joke and be good on Sundays unless you are a generational talent. He acts like he's arrived, and plays like a street free agent. He's had a few good run stops, but by and large his play is pedestrian. McDonald has outperforming him in every aspect this season.


And look who allowed him to treat practice like a joke - his Head Coach. They even joked about it on hard knocks.

Last year, Koetter talked about a "winning culture" and said he doesn't know how to describe it but he knows when he sees it. Frankly, that should have been a giant red flag. If you don't have an idea how to create a winning culture, you shouldn't be the guy tasked with doing so.
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby DanTurksGhost » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:16 pm

Caradoc wrote:And look who allowed him to treat practice like a joke - his Head Coach. They even joked about it on hard knocks.


I was skeptical of Koetter, and my skepticism has only grown. The team looks mostly unprepared and undisciplined. That goes on the HC.

Also, this was something that was joked about on "Hard Knocks"? I didn't watch it. Can you elaborate?
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby Agent Orange » Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:53 pm

The answer is Winston. Winston is by far the biggest disappointment. I could put together an 80’s style nfl bloopers tape on just him this season. There are other disappointments but Winston is the clear choice.
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:24 am

DanTurksGhost wrote:
Caradoc wrote:And look who allowed him to treat practice like a joke - his Head Coach. They even joked about it on hard knocks.


I was skeptical of Koetter, and my skepticism has only grown. The team looks mostly unprepared and undisciplined. That goes on the HC.

Also, this was something that was joked about on "Hard Knocks"? I didn't watch it. Can you elaborate?


I think he is referring to the team openly joking about how lazy Baker was. It was something of a running joke on the team.
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby UbuntuBuc » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:04 am

PrimeMinister wrote:
DanTurksGhost wrote:
I was skeptical of Koetter, and my skepticism has only grown. The team looks mostly unprepared and undisciplined. That goes on the HC.

Also, this was something that was joked about on "Hard Knocks"? I didn't watch it. Can you elaborate?


I think he is referring to the team openly joking about how lazy Baker was. It was something of a running joke on the team.


That is not good at all. Guys like that cause decay on a team. If Baker was being lazy then he should have gotten a boot to the head.

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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby DanTurksGhost » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:15 pm

Glad to see some players got into it with him after the game. We don't need attitudes like that around here. They can cut him and send him packing this offseason and improve the team spirit. I'm ashamed that I was pleased with this signing when it happened.
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:38 pm

I don't think he is the biggest disappointment, but I'll throw a dishonorable mention out there since everyone has already listed off the guys higher on my list. But what about Mike Evans? He's supposed to be a top 5 WR in the NFL, a perennial Pro Bowler and dominant #1 WR. But he just had his first 100 yard game of the season in Week 16 and could potentially fail to top 1,000 yards for the first time in his career and if he does top it, he wouldn't be doing it by much. I'm not saying cut the guy or anything, but we needed WAY more from him than that. It's also especially not good for Mike because he's playing for a big contract extension, as a 1st round pick the Bucs will have him under his rookie contract next year for his 5th season but it's time for him to get paid and he's not playing like a guy who should be paid as a #1 WR.
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby theBKwhopper » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:57 pm

Miller4Prez64 wrote:I don't think he is the biggest disappointment, but I'll throw a dishonorable mention out there since everyone has already listed off the guys higher on my list. But what about Mike Evans? He's supposed to be a top 5 WR in the NFL, a perennial Pro Bowler and dominant #1 WR. But he just had his first 100 yard game of the season in Week 16 and could potentially fail to top 1,000 yards for the first time in his career and if he does top it, he wouldn't be doing it by much. I'm not saying cut the guy or anything, but we needed WAY more from him than that. It's also especially not good for Mike because he's playing for a big contract extension, as a 1st round pick the Bucs will have him under his rookie contract next year for his 5th season but it's time for him to get paid and he's not playing like a guy who should be paid as a #1 WR.

I did mention him. The only reason I'm not being as harsh on him is because some of it isn't on him. Like when Fitzpatrick had to start. That threw things for a loop. However, he was suspended a game for having ZERO self control.

Things just haven't been working this year. Players were bound to have slumps.
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby Deuce » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:17 pm

I think Evans' season has been a little overblown as being "bad". Has it been disappointing? For sure. But he's 15th in the NFL in yards, 13th in targets. Guys like Antonio Brown and DeAndre Hopkins are operating with 162 and 176 targets, Evans has 122. TDs for WRs are pretty volatile year to year, Julio Jones had 3 this season, with more targets and receptions than Evans.

I think the last two games have shown that he's still capable of dominating. Unfortunately, our passing game additions did nothing to help him, it seems that it was more effective just to bombard Evans with targets.
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:20 pm

Sunday was Evans 1st 100 yard receiving game this year and he did it on just 8 targets.
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby PrimeMinister » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:22 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Sunday was Evans 1st 100 yard receiving game this year and he did it on just 8 targets.


Yep. I think “good Winston” is the difference.
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby Deuce » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:35 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Sunday was Evans 1st 100 yard receiving game this year and he did it on just 8 targets.


I don't really get this whole "first 100 yard game" thing. He's had yardage totals of 95, 93, 92, and 88 this year. Do we get bonus points if a receiver has 100 yards or something?

In our first game of the season, he had 7 for 93 and a TD. Give me that over 6 for 107 any day.
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby selmon63 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:39 am

DanTurksGhost wrote:Glad to see some players got into it with him after the game. We don't need attitudes like that around here. They can cut him and send him packing this offseason and improve the team spirit. I'm ashamed that I was pleased with this signing when it happened.

You weren't the only one who thought Baker paired with McCoy could be a force, I was of the same mindset.

Players the ilk of Baker are cancerous, their attitude and negative habilts can spread. There are a couple of intruiging defensive tackles in the upcoming draft that could make a huge difference on the interior line play and rush.
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:39 pm

selmon63 wrote:
DanTurksGhost wrote:Glad to see some players got into it with him after the game. We don't need attitudes like that around here. They can cut him and send him packing this offseason and improve the team spirit. I'm ashamed that I was pleased with this signing when it happened.

You weren't the only one who thought Baker paired with McCoy could be a force, I was of the same mindset.

Players the ilk of Baker are cancerous, their attitude and negative habilts can spread. There are a couple of intruiging defensive tackles in the upcoming draft that could make a huge difference on the interior line play and rush.

Yeah, DT's are not getting a lot of attention this year.
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby Jason Bourne » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:09 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
selmon63 wrote:You weren't the only one who thought Baker paired with McCoy could be a force, I was of the same mindset.

Players the ilk of Baker are cancerous, their attitude and negative habilts can spread. There are a couple of intruiging defensive tackles in the upcoming draft that could make a huge difference on the interior line play and rush.

Yeah, DT's are not getting a lot of attention this year.


Vita Vea is interesting DT ... people comparing him to Haloti . 6-5 330 lbs .
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby LavonteDavid54 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:08 pm

I'd have to say it's a toss up between VHIII and Noah Spence.If a guy can't stay on the field that's part of what could be a long lasting problem. Considering how high he was picked and our desperate need of his pass rush. I think both him n VH3 were big reasons the pass d struggled. Baker was never a sack guy and didn't find him to be some huge signing. He was just to be a little extra depth at the DT position. Numbers were never eye popping.Also considering how well Clinton McDonald played considering his role. I don't think Baker was missed much. Of course his offsides in week 16 on 4th down summed up his contributions for the year.
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:48 pm

Apparently Baker is about to be released. What a **** signing considering that FA DT class last year...
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:58 pm

real bucs fan wrote:Apparently Baker is about to be released. What a **** signing considering that FA DT class last year...


Apparently? Did you read/see something or are you connecting the dots?
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby Super K » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:24 pm

real bucs fan wrote:Apparently Baker is about to be released. What a **** signing considering that FA DT class last year...


Good (although, like Bootz, I'm interested to hear where you got this info)....

Lazy,good for nothing, fat ****...
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby Bootz2004 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:38 pm

Super K wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Apparently Baker is about to be released. What a **** signing considering that FA DT class last year...


Good (although, like Bootz, I'm interested to hear where you got this info)....

Lazy,good for nothing, fat ****...


Yea I doubt that he will be gone. But the equivalent of saying it is saying Jameis Winston will be starting QB going into TC. Duh!
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:45 pm

I will say (looking back) it was a red flag that the Redskins didn't even negotiate with him after very productive b2b seasons he had for them in '15-'16. It's not like we overpaid him based on that production.

I think Baker is the type of player that requires a carrot in order to perform his best.
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:48 pm

Pewter Report has a story on it.

I can't link cuz I'm on my phone and they have some stupid mobile ad that's popping up, but they say Baker is expected tot be released.
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby Cheb » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:01 pm

real bucs fan wrote:Pewter Report has a story on it.

I can't link cuz I'm on my phone and they have some stupid mobile ad that's popping up, but they say Baker is expected tot be released.


Here's the full article, emphasis on Baker is bolded:

After a year in which the Bucs defensive line contributed to the lowest sack total in Tampa Bay in decades, there will be some significant changes this offseason.

One of the most recent additions to the Bucs D-line will be departing as the team is expected to release defensive tackle Chris Baker, who signed a three-year, $15.7 million contract last March as a free agent from Washington. His release could happen any time but will certainly occur before March 18, as $3 million of his $4.875 million base salary becomes guaranteed if he is on the Bucs roster at that time.

Baker’s release will create $4.875 million in salary cap room for the Bucs, who are believed to have over $61 million in salary cap room right now before any cuts.

The 30-year old Baker was lazy and was a bad signing by general manager Jason Licht, who hoped that the 6-foot-2, 320-pounder could add size and pass rush to the Bucs defensive line. Baker had 100 tackles, 9.5 sacks and five forced fumbles for the Redskins from 2015-16, but disappointed in his first season in Tampa Bay with 33 tackles and half a sack while getting paid $6 million.

PewterReport.com spoke with Licht at the Senior Bowl where he and his Bucs scouting staff and assistant defensive line coach Paul Spicer were scouting defensive ends and tackles in anticipation of a defense-heavy draft in April.

“Speaking as the general manager, we have a good nucleus of talent and we definitely need to provide our coaches with more players and more depth and I feel that lies on me, obviously,” said Licht, who has spent only two draft picks on defensive linemen in his four years in Tampa Bay. “I am cognizant of that, especially on the defensive side of the ball. We need to start focusing more on that side, and that falls on me. We need to add more players that add to the culture and we need to do a really good job of making sure we add players that don’t detract from the culture.

“I don’t feel like we have a lot of those players. We don’t. The vast majority of our roster is made of guys that my scouting staff and I are looking for. You can start with the four rookies that contributed last year (tight end O.J. Howard, safety Justin Evans, wide receiver Chris Godwin and linebacker Kendell Beckwith), those are the types of guys we want along with Kwon [Alexander] and Jameis [Winston] and those guys.”

Along the defensive line, the Bucs need more like Clinton McDonald who was also the Buccaneers Man of the Year for his community service work, and none like Baker. Blame Licht for signing Baker, but the Bucs G.M. doesn’t hang on to mistakes very long, evidenced by his release of defensive end Michael Johnson, quarterback Josh McNown and left tackle Anthony Collins after one year in 2015, and his release of kicker Roberto Aguayo, Tampa Bay’s second-round pick in 2016, last summer after just one season.

McDonald was supposed to be Baker’s backup at nose tackle last season, but wound up beating him for the starting job and for playing time while recording 29 tackles and five sacks in 14 games. The 31-year McDonald is an unrestricted free and the team would like to re-sign him, in addition to defensive end Will Clarke, who is also scheduled to be a free agent this offseason, if the price is right. McDonald made $2 million last year, which was the final year of a four-year deal he signed back in 2014.

One of the players that started his time in Tampa Bay as a positive contributor is defensive end Robert Ayers, Jr., who signed a three-year, $19.5 million contract in 2016. Ayers recorded 29 tackles, 6.5 sacks, a forced fumble and a safety in his first season in Tampa Bay despite missing four games due to injury. But last year was a different story as Ayers recorded 31 tackles, and only two sacks and two forced fumbles for the Buccaneers, who were dead last in the league with 22 sacks.

Tampa Bay has not made a decision on whether to keep Ayers, who missed four more games last year due to injury, or release him and save $6 million in salary cap room. Ayers, who turns 33 in September, has a $1 million roster bonus that is due on March 18 if he is still on the team. The guess here is that the Bucs move on from Ayers, who was a two-year starter.

“Some decisions will be very easy, and some we’re still having some internal discussions about,” Licht said.

One defensive lineman Tampa Bay will not be looking to part ways with is defensive tackle Gerald McCoy, who is in Orlando this week for his sixth consecutive Pro Bowl. While McCoy has reached a place in his contract where the team could trade him due to a very low salary cap hit of just $500,000, the Bucs have no intentions of doing so. Although he turns 30 on February 25 and his sacks have decreased every year over the past three seasons, Licht still believes McCoy is one of the NFL’s elite defensive tackles.

“I still think that Gerald is in the prime of his career,” Licht said. “I don’t think that Gerald has lost a step by any means. I still think Gerald has one of the best get-offs in the league from a three-tech standpoint.

“Gerald did miss some time with an injury, but he came back from it and that’s a testament to him – although we were out of contention. I’m not worried about Gerald losing a step. We’re more focused on bringing in more depth and more players around Gerald.”

With better sack production and pressure from the defensive end position, Licht believes McCoy can increase his sack numbers in 2018 from the six sacks he totaled in 15 games last year, and is not interested in trading him for draft picks. Getting rid of the Bucs’ most productive pass rusher won’t help the team rush the passer better this year.

“We are not in discussions with anyone regarding Gerald,” Licht said. “Gerald is one of our best pass rushers and that’s an area where we need to get significantly better at.”

The Bucs are expected to look to both free agency and the draft for players that can help the team’s pass rush, but the two biggest names – Dallas’ DeMarcus Lawrence and Detroit’s Ziggy Ansah – likely won’t be available as neither team wants to lose their biggest sack producers. It’s not a great year to be searching for 4-3 pass rushers in free agency and the draft, and the Bucs, who have the seventh overall pick, likely won’t have a shot at drafting North Carolina State defensive end Bradley Chubb, so it will require a good deal of proper evaluation and a little bit of luck to find productive pass rushers to add to the team in 2018.

Source: https://www.pewterreport.com/change-is-coming-to-bucs-defensive-line-in-2018/


They say that he "will be departing", then follow that up with "expected to release" without mentioning any sources, not even an anonymous quote from a mysterious team official.

They are speculating. Nothing more groundbreaking than what dozens of members of this forum could also come up with.
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:36 pm

They said his release will "certainly occur"
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby terrytate » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:58 pm

Djax was a disappointment, but he isn't the one to blame. For whatever reason, WInston could not get the ball to him. We say Jackson get open deep a million times and the ball would land nowhere near him.
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby Caradoc » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:11 pm

real bucs fan wrote:They said his release will "certainly occur"



They also said Gruden was a lock to return to Tampa.
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:48 pm

Caradoc wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:They said his release will "certainly occur"



They also said Gruden was a lock to return to Tampa.

Well I said "apparently"... and I didn't even create a new thread about it... what the heck do you guys want?
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:53 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Caradoc wrote:

They also said Gruden was a lock to return to Tampa.

Well I said "apparently"... and I didn't even create a new thread about it... what the heck do you guys want?


A bit more clarification in your initial post. It came across as something sourced. Even if you said 'according to the dipshits at PR' it would've been better. :D

I think Baker may get released, but PR speculating about it doesn't move the needle for me. $4.8m isn't much when it creates another hole on the depth chart.
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby Super K » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:03 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Well I said "apparently"... and I didn't even create a new thread about it... what the heck do you guys want?


A bit more clarification in your initial post. It came across as something sourced. Even if you said 'according to the dipshits at PR' it would've been better. :D

I think Baker may get released, but PR speculating about it doesn't move the needle for me. $4.8m isn't much when it creates another hole on the depth chart.


The only place it creates a hole is in the local buffet lines...

Bring up a guy from the practice squad to take his place, there will be no change in production...
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Re: Which Bucs player is the biggest disappointment this sea

Postby Jason Bourne » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:09 pm

Baker >>> dontari poe and 3 million dollars cheaper per year . The stats are pretty equal for the 2 of them
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