Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

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Jameis is special because;

He never gives up on a play, willing his team to victory with OMG moments
12
41%
He’s an infuriatingly inconsistent QB with no regard for ball control
17
59%
 
Total votes : 29

Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby Rocker » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:28 am

You get one choice. Kudos for those that can defend their vote with coherent thought.

No waffling, no hedging, just one or the other.

Go!
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Re: Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby theBKwhopper » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:56 am

I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a Buc with his heart, passion and determination and I have no doubt he will progress. He's so young, it's not fair to cast him before he has a real chance to even grow up. These things take time. Some people aren't bags of popcorn that you can just microwave in a couple minutes. Some of them you gotta slow cook and develop. His issues are absolutely correctable. Let him evolve.
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Re: Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby Wesmon » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:50 am

Your poll sucks. Jameis is special because he is "an infuriatingly inconsistent QB with no regard for ball control?"

That makes no sense.
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Re: Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby Caradoc » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:25 am

It's amusing you see option 1 and option 2 as being at odds with each other.
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Re: Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby Nano » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:17 am

I guess both options are correct but the 2nd option happens a lot more often then the first.
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Re: Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby Kress » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:11 am

Yeah, both options are correct. He never gives up on a play, but sometimes he should. He can have oh my God that was awesome moments, or what were you thinking just eat the sack already and play another down moments interspersed throughout the game.
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Re: Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby Buc2 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:59 am

And his OMG moments go both ways... good and bad.
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Re: Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby Rocker » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:26 am

Kress wrote:Yeah, both options are correct. He never gives up on a play, but sometimes he should. He can have oh my God that was awesome moments, or what were you thinking just eat the sack already and play another down moments interspersed throughout the game.



Agreed; and I think the poll would be flipped if we wound up winning the game.
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Re: Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby Cheb » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:41 am

Kress wrote:Yeah, both options are correct. He never gives up on a play, but sometimes he should. He can have oh my God that was awesome moments, or what were you thinking just eat the sack already and play another down moments interspersed throughout the game.


Thirded.
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Re: Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby Bucs N Beers » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:50 am

Cheb wrote:
Kress wrote:Yeah, both options are correct. He never gives up on a play, but sometimes he should. He can have oh my God that was awesome moments, or what were you thinking just eat the sack already and play another down moments interspersed throughout the game.


Thirded.


+1

I think he actually threw the ball fairly well this game. Had a couple of ill-advised throws, but he was under a lot of pressure as well. Dirk has said before that you don't want to coach the gunslinger out of a guy too much, but I think Jameis is a guy that could actually benefit by losing some of that. His bonehead plays have started to outnumber his amazing plays.
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Re: Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby BCULAW » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:37 am

Bucs N Beers wrote:
Cheb wrote:
Thirded.


+1

I think he actually threw the ball fairly well this game. Had a couple of ill-advised throws, but he was under a lot of pressure as well. Dirk has said before that you don't want to coach the gunslinger out of a guy too much, but I think Jameis is a guy that could actually benefit by losing some of that. His bonehead plays have started to outnumber his amazing plays.


I agree with this. Watching the game, his accuracy and ball placement was pretty much spot on. I loved the screen game that Dirk called up, And felt like it showed that Jameis is capable of playing well in a scheme that calls for a lot of quick – hitters and short, touch passes. He made an accurate deep throw to Evans down the sideline, and both TDS were really great throws. In short, he played well for the vast majority of his snaps.

The problem with Jameis isn’t his overall game. It is 2-3 plays a game where he loses poise under pressure or tries to do too much with one play. He’s constantly fighting for anything he can get, but sometimes there’s victory in surrender.

The good news is (I hope) that it’s much easier to coach the “bad” our of Jameis than it is to find someone else that can do the good things he can. Despite what the naysayers claim, he really is an exceptional talent. Not many quarterbacks can make some of the throws that he makes, And very few players have his grit, work ethic, and toughness. He showed a lot of Admirable qualities this week playing through what looked to be a pretty ugly ankle injury, and fighting a defensive end for a fumble which he ultimately wrestled away.

I may be in the minority, but I believe JW might benefit from a little different coaching angle this off-season, and it should come in one of two forms: Either the quarterbacks coach needs to get JW to focus on controlling his emotions prior to and during the game so that he can maintain a more poised, even – keeled approach to his work, or the team needs to let JW be who he is and simply complete. What I mean by this is that it is obvious that the coaching staff is attempting to coach some of the competitive instincts out of Jameis. You don’t see him blocking for running backs anymore, and you rarely, if ever, see him break the pocket to make a play with his legs, even though he was very successful doing so as a rookie. Heck, he was second in the league in rushing touchdowns by a quarterback in his rookie campaign, and I don’t believe he has had one since. The team doesn’t even use him for quarterback sneaks.

I realize that all of these are ways to try to keep Jameis healthy, but I also recall that those competitive traits are what first caught Licht’s attention when he was scouting Jameis. Licht even had a video saved on his phone of JW blocking for a receiver 40 yards downfield. One of his greatest traits was that he was not just a quarterback, he was a football player.

I wonder if JW wouldn’t benefit from either the “harness him or turn him loose” approach. Do the Bucs want Jameis to simply be a quarterback, or is it willing to let him be a football player. He seems to be stuck in between right now, and I think it affects his decision making process. The penalty he got for the illegal forward pass this past weekend is a perfect example. Jameis the football player would have tried to run that in for a touchdown. Jameis the quarterback was trying to find open receivers even when you could tell he wanted to run. The result was indecision, and that doesn’t help anyone.
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Re: Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:10 pm

40/60 needs to be 80/20!
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Re: Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby Selmon Rules » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:59 pm

He needs to understand that any possession that ends with anything other then a kick is a disaster.... Whether that kick is a punt, FG, or an XP doesn't matter, but they all have to end with a kick!!!
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Re: Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby The Outsider » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:05 pm

I think a lot of his boneheaded-ness is rooted in him trying too hard, but I agree with those above like Kress and Chebington that both poll options could be correct.

The people who want to completely give up on him are crazy though. I want to see what he can do if he's actually given a decent football team. Like a running game, or a competent defense, or both.
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Re: Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby Teitan » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:20 pm

The Outsider wrote:I think a lot of his boneheaded-ness is rooted in him trying too hard, but I agree with those above like Kress and Chebington that both poll options could be correct.

The people who want to completely give up on him are crazy though. I want to see what he can do if he's actually given a decent football team. Like a running game, or a competent defense, or both.



In Grudens offense, he would be getting rid of the ball quicker and have less time to make those bone-head decisions.
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Re: Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby Buc2 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:13 am

Why does everyone just assume Gruden would employ a WC offense just because that was what he used nearly a decade ago?
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Re: Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:21 am

Buc2 wrote:Why does everyone just assume Gruden would employ a WC offense just because that was what he used nearly a decade ago?


It's the offense he cut his teeth in his entire NFL coaching career. I'd have no problem with him employing that system. I also have no doubts he'd adjust it to fit some of the other things Jameis does well as well as things to keep up with the NFL game. Remember this offense didn't utilize the shotgun until Gruden's 2nd to last season here. Might have taken time but he adjusted. He certainly will have adjust over the last decade.
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Re: Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby Buc2 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:49 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
Buc2 wrote:Why does everyone just assume Gruden would employ a WC offense just because that was what he used nearly a decade ago?


It's the offense he cut his teeth in his entire NFL coaching career. I'd have no problem with him employing that system. I also have no doubts he'd adjust it to fit some of the other things Jameis does well as well as things to keep up with the NFL game. Remember this offense didn't utilize the shotgun until Gruden's 2nd to last season here. Might have taken time but he adjusted. He certainly will have adjust over the last decade.

Exactly and to my point. Assumptions are all people are going by. Assumptions from a decade ago. I wasn't saying he won't employ a WC offense or some version of it. Perhaps he would. No one knows, so they shouldn't assume after this long. He's had the luxury of watching a great many teams over the years he's been in the broadcast booth. Enough to have a good idea of what works and doesn't work in today's NFL. I'd love to see a team hire him just to see what a 2018 Gruden run team would look like.
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Re: Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby acmillis » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:00 pm

Buc2 wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
It's the offense he cut his teeth in his entire NFL coaching career. I'd have no problem with him employing that system. I also have no doubts he'd adjust it to fit some of the other things Jameis does well as well as things to keep up with the NFL game. Remember this offense didn't utilize the shotgun until Gruden's 2nd to last season here. Might have taken time but he adjusted. He certainly will have adjust over the last decade.

Exactly and to my point. Assumptions are all people are going by. Assumptions from a decade ago. I wasn't saying he won't employ a WC offense or some version of it. Perhaps he would. No one knows, so they shouldn't assume after this long. He's had the luxury of watching a great many teams over the years he's been in the broadcast booth. Enough to have a good idea of what works and doesn't work in today's NFL. I'd love to see a team hire him just to see what a 2018 Gruden run team would look like.

6 men in motion and a 3 yard dump off on 3rd and long
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Re: Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby KiffininCanton » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:47 pm

acmillis wrote:
Buc2 wrote:Exactly and to my point. Assumptions are all people are going by. Assumptions from a decade ago. I wasn't saying he won't employ a WC offense or some version of it. Perhaps he would. No one knows, so they shouldn't assume after this long. He's had the luxury of watching a great many teams over the years he's been in the broadcast booth. Enough to have a good idea of what works and doesn't work in today's NFL. I'd love to see a team hire him just to see what a 2018 Gruden run team would look like.

6 men in motion and a 3 yard dump off on 3rd and long


don't forget getting the ball with still a minute and half left and all 3 timeouts and deciding to just take a knee to get to halftime with the kneel play being called in to the QB as "tiger, triple Z, elephant, cobra, double Y, fire T, zebra, double S, lemon Y, single R, spider"
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Re: Two points: A simple gauge of how BucZone thinks

Postby Kress » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:40 pm

#Grumors
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