Lots to like about the Green Bay game

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Lots to like about the Green Bay game

Postby Doctor » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:34 pm

Wait, what? Yup, that's right. There's something about watching a game when you already know your team blows it that lets you watch it more objectively and without the emotional rollercoaster. For those of you that are all like "the season is lost, I just want to see improvement", this is the exact game you want to see. I'm serious.

*First, hat off to Mike McCarthy, who showed why he's one of the best offensive minds in the game. He used our defenses overconfidence against them especially late in the game and in OT. It almost felt like the first three quarters were a set up to get hustled at the end, even veterans like LVD were duped by great fakes and play actions. Lack of run lane discipline by defenders thinking they could make the big play against a unpolished QB. And lots of sloppy tacklings. But this thread is about the good stuff so lets get to it.

- Jameis Winston looked good out there. People are really pissed about that fumble for a TD, and I get it, but let's not pretend that Jameis hasn't made several big plays for us with defenders all over him in the past. He has. And when he does we love him. This one the ball slipped out of his hand. Sucks. Obviously should've just taken the sack. But if the ball doesn't slip, and he manages to complete it to Brate, we would be posting what a great competitor he is and blah blah blah. At least he somewhat learned as he tucked it the next couple of times he was being brought down instead of trying to make a play. Though one wonders if he could have made some of those plays where he tucked it away and played it safe... hmm....

- The screen plays looked great. I can't believe I'm saying that as a Bucs fan. The run blocking was also very good, holes all day long. Unfortunately, they were absolute trash in pass protection. We need to keep in mind we lost two starters this week and then they OL we practice with all week got reshuffled on gameday when Joe got sick. With that said, did Evan Smith forget the Packers cut him? Because he really seemed to be doing all he could to have them win. Any way we can put this OL in on run plays and the older OL in on pass plays or would that be to obvious?

- Lots of players are developing well. I missed the Falcons game where I hear that Ryan Smith got destroyed by Julio, but to be fair that would happen to most CBs in the league. However, to see him bounce back the way he did against Nelson and Adams was great. He played some tight coverage and really showed he put that last game behind him. He still has ways to go, sure, but he's coming along well for a second year project out of NC Central. Evans also looked pretty good out there. At the end of the day there's no teacher like experience, and I wouldn't be opposed to having these guys be declared starters from here on out.

- Peyton Barber should also be named the starter from here on out. God damn I love how this kid runs. Has a downhill mentality and a uses his stutter step very nicely. Seems to have a feel for the game you expect to see out of a seasoned veteran, knowing just when he's done all he can and to turn it upfield for what's left. Very little wasted movement in his run. I honestly loved watching him and I really hope we get to see more of him. I know a lot of fans have an "if they weren't a first rounder and a surprise rookie sensation then their forever a can of beans" mentality, but this kid deserves every shot to earn this job for 2018. I'm not calling the 23-year-old, undrafted kid the next Priest Holmes or anything, but let's see what he's got. We already know exactly what we have with all our other RBs.

We had to unlucky breaks, the blocked punt, the ball that slipped out, Evan Smith suiting up, but that's the way the game goes. It was almost like watching the Chargers, who seem to have a patent on finding incredible ways to play great and lose.I really suggest everyone rewatch the game with a clear head. There is a lot to like about the development of some of these players and it's clear to see how their skill sets fit into the system.
Last edited by Doctor on Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lot's to like about the Green Bay game

Postby KiffininCanton » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:47 pm

I'm giving you a "thanks" just because I respect that you put work into your trolling, unlike the one sentence hit and runs that Bootz does.
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Re: Lot's to like about the Green Bay game

Postby DanTurksGhost » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:48 pm

Blocking on punts has been very inconsistent this year. I can't say we were unlucky, it was just a rush straight up the middle and he went completely untouched. We've got a pretty terrific punter, but our punt protection has been spotty.

And yeah, I like how Barber runs. Very determined.
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Re: Lot's to like about the Green Bay game

Postby Babeinbucland » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:23 pm

KiffininCanton wrote:I'm giving you a "thanks" just because I respect that you put work into your trolling, unlike the one sentence hit and runs that Bootz does.

Everything about that sentence had me laughing
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Re: Lot's to like about the Green Bay game

Postby Rocker » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:13 am

I was honestly going to debate each and every one of your flawed points, but....

KiffininCanton wrote:I'm giving you a "thanks" just because I respect that you put work into your trolling, unlike the one sentence hit and runs that Bootz does.



Donezo.

At best, you’re using revisionist history to make chicken soup of chicken ****.

The scarier alternative is that you may actually believe your soup is good.
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Re: Lot's to like about the Green Bay game

Postby BayAreaBucFan25 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:28 am

I actually thought Jameis Played well, I think he showed great touch on the screen passes for the first time ever. He got sacked 7 times and was under duress the whole game, cut the guy some slack.
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Re: Lot's to like about the Green Bay game

Postby Wesmon » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:53 am

Doctor wrote:Wait, what? Yup, that's right. There's something about watching a game when you already know your team blows it that lets you watch it more objectively and without the emotional rollercoaster. For those of you that are all like "the season is lost, I just want to see improvement", this is the exact game you want to see. I'm serious.

*First, hat off to Mike McCarthy, who showed why he's one of the best offensive minds in the game. He used our defenses overconfidence against them especially late in the game and in OT. It almost felt like the first three quarters were a set up to get hustled at the end, even veterans like LVD were duped by great fakes and play actions. Lack of run lane discipline by defenders thinking they could make the big play against a unpolished QB. And lots of sloppy tacklings. But this thread is about the good stuff so lets get to it.

- Jameis Winston looked good out there. People are really pissed about that fumble for a TD, and I get it, but let's not pretend that Jameis hasn't made several big plays for us with defenders all over him in the past. He has. And when he does we love him. This one the ball slipped out of his hand. Sucks. Obviously should've just taken the sack. But if the ball doesn't slip, and he manages to complete it to Brate, we would be posting what a great competitor he is and blah blah blah. At least he somewhat learned as he tucked it the next couple of times he was being brought down instead of trying to make a play. Though one wonders if he could have made some of those plays where he tucked it away and played it safe... hmm....

- The screen plays looked great. I can't believe I'm saying that as a Bucs fan. The run blocking was also very good, holes all day long. Unfortunately, they were absolute trash in pass protection. We need to keep in mind we lost two starters this week and then they OL we practice with all week got reshuffled on gameday when Joe got sick. With that said, did Evan Smith forget the Packers cut him? Because he really seemed to be doing all he could to have them win. Any way we can put this OL in on run plays and the older OL in on pass plays or would that be to obvious?

- Lots of players are developing well. I missed the Falcons game where I hear that Ryan Smith got destroyed by Julio, but to be fair that would happen to most CBs in the league. However, to see him bounce back the way he did against Nelson and Adams was great. He played some tight coverage and really showed he put that last game behind him. He still has ways to go, sure, but he's coming along well for a second year project out of NC Central. Evans also looked pretty good out there. At the end of the day there's no teacher like experience, and I wouldn't be opposed to having these guys be declared starters from here on out.

- Peyton Barber should also be named the starter from here on out. God damn I love how this kid runs. Has a downhill mentality and a uses his stutter step very nicely. Seems to have a feel for the game you expect to see out of a seasoned veteran, knowing just when he's done all he can and to turn it upfield for what's left. Very little wasted movement in his run. I honestly loved watching him and I really hope we get to see more of him. I know a lot of fans have an "if they weren't a first rounder and a surprise rookie sensation then their forever a can of beans" mentality, but this kid deserves every shot to earn this job for 2018. I'm not calling the 23-year-old, undrafted kid the next Priest Holmes or anything, but let's see what he's got. We already know exactly what we have with all our other RBs.

We had to unlucky breaks, the blocked punt, the ball that slipped out, Evan Smith suiting up, but that's the way the game goes. It was almost like watching the Chargers, who seem to have a patent on finding incredible ways to play great and lose.I really suggest everyone rewatch the game with a clear head. There is a lot to like about the development of some of these players and it's clear to see how their skill sets fit into the system.



You know, I would take your ridiculously optimistic screeds more seriously if you ever had a critical thought about anything this team does.
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Re: Lot's to like about the Green Bay game

Postby Buc2 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:04 am

Wesmon wrote:You know, I would take your ridiculously optimistic screeds more seriously if you ever had a critical thought about anything this team does.

There are plenty of critics to read here. Nothing wrong with an optimistic view point here and there. In fact, I welcome them.
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Re: Lot's to like about the Green Bay game

Postby BucaRican » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:42 am

BayAreaBucFan25 wrote:I actually thought Jameis Played well, I think he showed great touch on the screen passes for the first time ever. He got sacked 7 times and was under duress the whole game, cut the guy some slack.
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Re: Lot's to like about the Green Bay game

Postby Bucs N Beers » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:56 am

Jameis needs to take what he is given. Look at the first drive (passes):

2-5-TB 30 (14:23) 3-J.Winston pass short right to 82-A.Auclair to TB 41 for 11 yards (52-C.Matthews).
2-6-TB 45 (13:09) 3-J.Winston pass short right to 45-A.Cross pushed ob at GB 42 for 13 yards (42-M.Burnett).
3-8-GB 40 (11:08) (Shotgun) 3-J.Winston pass short middle to 10-A.Humphries to GB 32 for 8 yards (31-D.House) [50-B.Martinez].
1-10-GB 32 (10:40) 3-J.Winston pass incomplete short middle to 13-M.Evans.
3-6-GB 28 (9:58) (Shotgun) 3-J.Winston pass deep middle to 84-C.Brate for 28 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

Twice he takes the outlet to the tight end and picks up the 1st down. Screen to Hump is pretty standard. Well covered slant to Evans. Beautiful touch pass to Brate up the seam. That drive is what Jameis should be. Take what you are given and then strike.

Instead we have an offense that is usually more designed to push the ball down the field, and a QB that wants to push the ball down the field. And he misses the easy play 7 yards in front of him.
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Re: Lot's to like about the Green Bay game

Postby sonofg » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:36 pm

Doctor wrote:- Jameis Winston looked good out there. People are really pissed about that fumble for a TD, and I get it, but let's not pretend that Jameis hasn't made several big plays for us with defenders all over him in the past. He has. And when he does we love him. This one the ball slipped out of his hand. Sucks. Obviously should've just taken the sack. But if the ball doesn't slip, and he manages to complete it to Brate, we would be posting what a great competitor he is and blah blah blah. At least he somewhat learned as he tucked it the next couple of times he was being brought down instead of trying to make a play. Though one wonders if he could have made some of those plays where he tucked it away and played it safe... hmm....


I've seen similar statements thrown out from time to time, but don't agree with this at all. There are plenty of us who are able to criticize plays even when the results are good.
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Re: Lot's to like about the Green Bay game

Postby Kress » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:08 pm

Inappropriate apostrophe alert. :D
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Re: Lot's to like about the Green Bay game

Postby BUCCABEER » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:09 pm

You know, I can get onboard with this post. Nothing about the coach though, so F@#^ Him. Bring in Gruden.
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Re: Lot's to like about the Green Bay game

Postby RedLeader » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:34 pm

BUCCABEER wrote:You know, I can get onboard with this post. Nothing about the coach though, so F@#^ Him. Bring in Gruden.


I hear Gru' may be interested in the NYG gig.. dunno..



Although, something tells me Chucky may just like seeing his name going across the ticker..
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Re: Lot's to like about the Green Bay game

Postby Doctor » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:40 am

Wesmon wrote:You know, I would take your ridiculously optimistic screeds more seriously if you ever had a critical thought about anything this team does.

You're kidding right?
I was one of the few criticizing Evans soft play last year when everyone was trying to crown him a top 5 WR. I criticized Winston playing hero ball and going for the big play, when many were saying he was being "held back and needed to be unleashed". I'm been super critical of buczone darling Kwon since he got here for his sloppy tackling as well as LVD mailing it in. I've been done with Doug Martin for years and have been banging the drum for a real RB.

So you're either new here or haven't been paying attention.
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Re: Lots to like about the Green Bay game

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:57 am

When the team is underachieving at 4-8 it's justified that the sentiment of the board is mostly critical. But that doesn't mean we should **** on anything that is not critical.

Imo, it's OK to have one positive thread to offer a different perspective/discussion than the 20+ threads bashing everyone from the Glazers down to the holder on FGs.

The Bucs did do some good things vs Green Bay. But like has been the case pretty much all season it wasn't enough and found a way to lose at the end.
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Re: Lots to like about the Green Bay game

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:14 am

DreadNaught wrote:When the team is underachieving at 4-8 it's justified that the sentiment of the board is mostly critical. But that doesn't mean we should **** on anything that is not critical.

Imo, it's OK to have one positive thread to offer a different perspective/discussion than the 20+ threads bashing everyone from the Glazers down to the holder on FGs.

The Bucs did do some good things vs Green Bay. But like has been the case pretty much all season it wasn't enough and found a way to lose at the end.


When you have a board composed mainly of fans who don't understand football past the basics, what you get is mainly critical posting, whining, complaining and those who bash positive information.

Now I agree with some of the OP. The Peyton Barber bit I 100% disagree with. He had a good game but most of that was obviously attributed to the run blocking. They really stepped up on Sunday. It can also be attributed to the fact that with Jameis Winston back, defenses didn't play as close to the LOS as they did in our last 3 games without him. Not many stacked boxes. Dread, you'll notice this when you go over the A22 film of this game. Barber and the run blocking didn't have as tough a game as Martin did over the last 3 with Fitz under center. If Martin is back there instead of Barber, he doesn't leave all the yardage on the field Barber did.

Also Ryan Smith did not have a great game. He was okay but Brent Hundley looked like a backup QB who shouldn't be starting. Missed so many wide open targets and open guys. Didn't throw anyone open the way Rodgers does. Didn't look comfortable at all.
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Re: Lots to like about the Green Bay game

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:51 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:When the team is underachieving at 4-8 it's justified that the sentiment of the board is mostly critical. But that doesn't mean we should **** on anything that is not critical.

Imo, it's OK to have one positive thread to offer a different perspective/discussion than the 20+ threads bashing everyone from the Glazers down to the holder on FGs.

The Bucs did do some good things vs Green Bay. But like has been the case pretty much all season it wasn't enough and found a way to lose at the end.


When you have a board composed mainly of fans who don't understand football past the basics, what you get is mainly critical posting, whining, complaining and those who bash positive information.

Now I agree with some of the OP. The Peyton Barber bit I 100% disagree with. He had a good game but most of that was obviously attributed to the run blocking. They really stepped up on Sunday. It can also be attributed to the fact that with Jameis Winston back, defenses didn't play as close to the LOS as they did in our last 3 games without him. Not many stacked boxes. Dread, you'll notice this when you go over the A22 film of this game. Barber and the run blocking didn't have as tough a game as Martin did over the last 3 with Fitz under center. If Martin is back there instead of Barber, he doesn't leave all the yardage on the field Barber did.

Also Ryan Smith did not have a great game. He was okay but Brent Hundley looked like a backup QB who shouldn't be starting. Missed so many wide open targets and open guys. Didn't throw anyone open the way Rodgers does. Didn't look comfortable at all.


Agreed, I went through the A22 last night and Barber ran well imo. He didn't have the free hitter to avoid in the backfield like we've seen most of the season and you're 100% correct about the lack of 8-9 man boxes we faced vs Green Bay. The Packers stayed in a 2-deep safety look pre-snap most of the game and that was why we didn't see many deep shots taken. But to Barber's credit he did show good patience/vision and did a good job of anticipating then hitting the holes/creases hard when they were there. The Oline certainly blocked better in the run game. But that us easier to do when you are not facing an odd/stacked box.

Biggest takeaway I had was a reoccurring theme for the Bucs in 2017 and that was missed opportunities on offense and lack of gap discipline on defense.

I don't give much credit to anyone in the secondary (other than the INT Justin Evans had) since their were Packer WRs open, their QB was just incapable of delivering accurately or with any anticipation.
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Re: Lots to like about the Green Bay game

Postby Doctor » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:37 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:When the team is underachieving at 4-8 it's justified that the sentiment of the board is mostly critical. But that doesn't mean we should **** on anything that is not critical.

Imo, it's OK to have one positive thread to offer a different perspective/discussion than the 20+ threads bashing everyone from the Glazers down to the holder on FGs.

The Bucs did do some good things vs Green Bay. But like has been the case pretty much all season it wasn't enough and found a way to lose at the end.


When you have a board composed mainly of fans who don't understand football past the basics, what you get is mainly critical posting, whining, complaining and those who bash positive information.

Now I agree with some of the OP. The Peyton Barber bit I 100% disagree with. He had a good game but most of that was obviously attributed to the run blocking. They really stepped up on Sunday. It can also be attributed to the fact that with Jameis Winston back, defenses didn't play as close to the LOS as they did in our last 3 games without him. Not many stacked boxes. Dread, you'll notice this when you go over the A22 film of this game. Barber and the run blocking didn't have as tough a game as Martin did over the last 3 with Fitz under center. If Martin is back there instead of Barber, he doesn't leave all the yardage on the field Barber did.

Also Ryan Smith did not have a great game. He was okay but Brent Hundley looked like a backup QB who shouldn't be starting. Missed so many wide open targets and open guys. Didn't throw anyone open the way Rodgers does. Didn't look comfortable at all.

I gave the OL props for their RB and you aren't wrong about facing stacked boxes. But I can't knock a guy for something he hasn't faced yet. Also, you don't need to see a stacked box to see running style, which is where Barber won a lot of points with me. Look at his runs to the outside, he takes great angle with slight stutter steps to adjust as needed. The moment he loses the angle he turns upfield for an extra yard/yard and a half. Many runners would try to compensate for the loss of angle by trying to beat the defender in a footrace to the sideline only to run out of bounds without gaining a foot more.
I don't know what Martin you are talking about, maybe one that was on our roster long ago. I didn't have a single moment where I said "Darn, Martin would have blah blah blah". Which in itself says a lot.

Also go back and watch Ryan Smith. Sure, Hundley passes were off, so what? If you see Ryan was stuck to his WR like glue on a lot of those anyway, which isn't easy to do with Nelson or Adams. Maybe I'm just blessed to not have been scarred by the Falcons game like you. Again, all you can see is what a player did during a play, not what may have happened if something had been different.
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Re: Lots to like about the Green Bay game

Postby IronDog » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:21 pm

Hey Doc, did you bring enough to share with the rest of us?
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Re: Lots to like about the Green Bay game

Postby Doctor » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:45 am

IronDog wrote:Hey Doc, did you bring enough to share with the rest of us?

Not everyone, but you can come to the back with the cool kids if you want in.
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Re: Lots to like about the Green Bay game

Postby Buc2 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:36 am

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