Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby Jason Bourne » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:12 pm

StillCSG wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
For casuals like you, yea.


No for anyone with 2 functional brain cells.. 1 td in the last 10 quarters with them bears that out



Lol boots idiocy is proven ... again
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby Rocker » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:12 pm

Babeinbucland wrote:
Swashy wrote:New game.... finish your drink every time Bootz says "casual"

It's guaranteed to produce results.


Results for detox centers


HA!
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby sanka » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:13 pm

Funny Bucs fan J-Stinks only shows up when Winston starts.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby DanTurksGhost » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:15 pm

Defense played very well today. Kudos to them for bringing their lunch pails and showing up for work today. Beckwith continues to develop very well, and guys like Evans and Smith who seemed like potential problems have also continued to get better.

Offense was still poorly called overall, but did enough to win the game and that's what counts. With a backup QB in there you've got to expect it to be a bit vanilla, of course. But we can't win a lot of games calling our offense like this. Fitz has good ball placement when he is tight on his mechanics but needs to be aware of his feet. Watching his feet live he looked pretty sloppy which affected his ability to make completions. Will have to watch the recording of the game to do a better assessment.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby MJW » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:25 pm

DanTurksGhost wrote:Defense played very well today. Kudos to them for bringing their lunch pails and showing up for work today. Beckwith continues to develop very well, and guys like Evans and Smith who seemed like potential problems have also continued to get better.

Offense was still poorly called overall, but did enough to win the game and that's what counts. With a backup QB in there you've got to expect it to be a bit vanilla, of course. But we can't win a lot of games calling our offense like this. Fitz has good ball placement when he is tight on his mechanics but needs to be aware of his feet. Watching his feet live he looked pretty sloppy which affected his ability to make completions. Will have to watch the recording of the game to do a better assessment.


Our young linebackers, all together and healthy...dayum. We're still seeing some growing pains but they could develop into one of the very best individual units in the NFL.

Fitzpatrick generally looked like a 34 year old journeyman, which is to say, consistently mediocre. But he did keep some drives alive on 3rd down, even if they didn't result in scores. Our defense wasn't on the field for 35 minutes like they usually are. That mattered in the 4th quarter.

Credit to our defensive line for doing what they're supposed to do against a bad OL. I'm not being sarcastic. That's what you do. I think some of our old warhorses were probably watching and smiling at home.

Finally, putting aside all the other stuff going on with this team, we're not winning **** in this league under ANY coach until our OL improves. What a disaster that unit is. Donovan Smith, Our two headed left guard abortion, and JR Turnstyle can all go now. NOW.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby DanTurksGhost » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:28 pm

MJW wrote:Finally, putting aside all the other stuff going on with this team, we're not winning **** in this league under ANY coach until our OL improves. What a disaster that unit is. Donovan Smith, Our two headed left guard abortion, and JR Turnstyle can all go now. NOW.


I sounded the alarm pre-season about both lines, and both lines have proven to be less than great. We only have two truly legit OL, Marpet and Dot. The rest leave a great deal to be desired, unfortunately.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby Jason Bourne » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:31 pm

Saw where Kwon got pissed at Baker for the penalty on the QB and Ayers was defending Baker , so Ayers and Kwon argued ... it happens ... I like it from the D
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby Doctor » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:40 pm

DanTurksGhost wrote:
MJW wrote:Finally, putting aside all the other stuff going on with this team, we're not winning **** in this league under ANY coach until our OL improves. What a disaster that unit is. Donovan Smith, Our two headed left guard abortion, and JR Turnstyle can all go now. NOW.


I sounded the alarm pre-season about both lines, and both lines have proven to be less than great. We only have two truly legit OL, Marpet and Dot. The rest leave a great deal to be desired, unfortunately.

Ah, the classic "THEY GUY NEEDS TO GO NOW" despite us not having any to replace them with. Isn't that what we did with Penn? That ended well right?
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby MJW » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:50 pm

Doctor wrote:
DanTurksGhost wrote:
I sounded the alarm pre-season about both lines, and both lines have proven to be less than great. We only have two truly legit OL, Marpet and Dot. The rest leave a great deal to be desired, unfortunately.

Ah, the classic "THEY GUY NEEDS TO GO NOW" despite us not having any to replace them with. Isn't that what we did with Penn? That ended well right?


Penn was released because OBP was projecting a decline that would prevent him from justifying the contract they thought they'd need to pay him. As it turned out, that decline never happened, and his price was quite reasonable.

Donovan Smith, Kevin Pamphile, and JR Sweezy are **** right now. In the case of Pamphile, about-to-be-a-free-agent ****. In the case of Sweezy, expensive **** that will save us a good chunk of money under the cap. In the case of Smith, he's simply one of the worst in the league at his position. But please, let's give it 80 or 100 more games before we have Anthony Munoz and Forrest Gregg to bring in here. Maybe we can get a QB literally murdered!
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby Doctor » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:54 pm

I totally think Smith will be one of those that will benefit a lot by being kicked inside, like Robert Gallery. I've also said on a few occasions I'm all for swapping him and Dot- who has performed well at the LT position.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby IchabodCrane84 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:02 pm

Babeinbucland wrote:
Nano wrote:Our kicking game is no longer a concern

Ichabod Crane has his opening “like” line


I'm so over kicker jokes.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby PrimeMinister » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:36 pm

Moozician wrote:
Doctor wrote:I love this board....

We have our backup QB in, down our star WR, with the lead, in a tough grinding game....

"WHY AREN'T WE PASSING ON FIRST DOWN!?!?"
-BucZone

Defense playing well in this game, got the lead, run out the clock... Why NOT run on first down?


We had the lead and ran out the clock in the first half? How?
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby PrimeMinister » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:40 pm

Cheb wrote:
Doctor wrote:I love this board....

We have our backup QB in, down our star WR, with the lead, in a tough grinding game....

"WHY AREN'T WE PASSING ON FIRST DOWN!?!?"
-BucZone


When we weren't in the two-minute drill at the end of the first half, 21 of our 23 first down calls were runs, often into eight and nine-man boxes for minimal gain. They weren't clever or effective. We had less than 3 yards per carry on the game. This is 1.2 yards less than what is averaged against the Jets (4.2 yards per carry). To those who can't put two and two together, that's bad.

Anyways, back to the game. The two passes that Koetter called on first down were playactions. One was the interception thrown into double coverage behind the intended receiver; as Gannon said during the game, had Fitz led the receiver that was an easy untouched TD. The second was a 20 yard gain to Godwin.

And while the first down runs were obnoxious and foreshadowed and stupid, it was the lack of running at all other times that was the real kicker. You can make noises about being without our starting quarterback and best receiver and leaning on the run to support that, but if that were the case, the offense would be running on second and third down. They didn't. At all. When Koetter calls to run exclusively on first down and then turn around to go Shotgun Fury exclusively on second and third down, then that narrative falls apart. The facts do not support the presumption. We ran it nearly exclusively on first down, and did not run at all on second or third. Because Koetter tips his playcalling. And because he tips his playcalling, we got behind on down-and-distance.

Here are my facts. To wit: we had three rushing plays on second or third down until our touchdown drive midway through the fourth quarter. Let that sink in for a moment.

Two of them were on long down and distance (2nd and 14, 2nd and 16). Only one was a manageable down-and-distance call (2nd and 3).

And on the touchdown drive, when we got rolling? We called as many second and third down runs (three) as we did the entire rest of the game up to that point. Those runs gained 21, 8, and 4 yards respectively, an average of 11 yards per carry.

Do you know what that means? Let me spell it out for you, so it is clear. When Koetter broke his stupid-as-fuck only-run-on-first-down-unless-we-just-got-a-penalty tendency , his run game was nearly four times as effective. Even if you take away the Sims run, the average would be 6 yards per carry, still doubly effective as his stupid first down calls.

We didn't get a rushing first down until the 10:30 in the 4th quarter. The narrative that we ran the ball to protect our depleted offensive skill positions is not held up by the numbers.

Ya'll are full of ****.

But winning whitewashes everything, so you people won't care.

It was stupidly predictable offense. Had the Jets shown up to play, they could have made us pay for it. We had three points at halftime, and nine entering the fourth quarter. It was shitty offense.


Perfectly stated.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby Moozician » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:48 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:
Moozician wrote:Defense playing well in this game, got the lead, run out the clock... Why NOT run on first down?


We had the lead and ran out the clock in the first half? How?

My bad... I didn't start watching the game until the third quarter. Firestick with Kodi (I'm in Orlando). When I observed the runs on first down, it made sense. I agree that it might not when he score is 3 to 3.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby DanTurksGhost » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:53 pm

Doctor wrote:I totally think Smith will be one of those that will benefit a lot by being kicked inside, like Robert Gallery. I've also said on a few occasions I'm all for swapping him and Dot- who has performed well at the LT position.


I don't like him at either tackle position. LG perhaps, but in no way am I comfortable putting this guy out on the edge, exposed.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby Truebuc » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:04 pm

Moozician wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:
We had the lead and ran out the clock in the first half? How?

My bad... I didn't start watching the game until the third quarter. Firestick with Kodi (I'm in Orlando). When I observed the runs on first down, it made sense. I agree that it might not when he score is 3 to 3.

Thank You. I was saying this all day then you and Bootz2004 saying just a casual would say that. We were running on first down since beginning of the game
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby Super K » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:12 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:
Cheb wrote:
When we weren't in the two-minute drill at the end of the first half, 21 of our 23 first down calls were runs, often into eight and nine-man boxes for minimal gain. They weren't clever or effective. We had less than 3 yards per carry on the game. This is 1.2 yards less than what is averaged against the Jets (4.2 yards per carry). To those who can't put two and two together, that's bad.

Anyways, back to the game. The two passes that Koetter called on first down were playactions. One was the interception thrown into double coverage behind the intended receiver; as Gannon said during the game, had Fitz led the receiver that was an easy untouched TD. The second was a 20 yard gain to Godwin.

And while the first down runs were obnoxious and foreshadowed and stupid, it was the lack of running at all other times that was the real kicker. You can make noises about being without our starting quarterback and best receiver and leaning on the run to support that, but if that were the case, the offense would be running on second and third down. They didn't. At all. When Koetter calls to run exclusively on first down and then turn around to go Shotgun Fury exclusively on second and third down, then that narrative falls apart. The facts do not support the presumption. We ran it nearly exclusively on first down, and did not run at all on second or third. Because Koetter tips his playcalling. And because he tips his playcalling, we got behind on down-and-distance.

Here are my facts. To wit: we had three rushing plays on second or third down until our touchdown drive midway through the fourth quarter. Let that sink in for a moment.

Two of them were on long down and distance (2nd and 14, 2nd and 16). Only one was a manageable down-and-distance call (2nd and 3).

And on the touchdown drive, when we got rolling? We called as many second and third down runs (three) as we did the entire rest of the game up to that point. Those runs gained 21, 8, and 4 yards respectively, an average of 11 yards per carry.

Do you know what that means? Let me spell it out for you, so it is clear. When Koetter broke his stupid-as-fuck only-run-on-first-down-unless-we-just-got-a-penalty tendency , his run game was nearly four times as effective. Even if you take away the Sims run, the average would be 6 yards per carry, still doubly effective as his stupid first down calls.

We didn't get a rushing first down until the 10:30 in the 4th quarter. The narrative that we ran the ball to protect our depleted offensive skill positions is not held up by the numbers.

Ya'll are full of ****.

But winning whitewashes everything, so you people won't care.

It was stupidly predictable offense. Had the Jets shown up to play, they could have made us pay for it. We had three points at halftime, and nine entering the fourth quarter. It was shitty offense.


Perfectly stated.


Yep..
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby mdb1958 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:39 pm

Eat this W. ;)
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby Stephenip12 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:23 pm

solid game from Chris godwin. Dude has a similar game to cooper from Oakland
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:46 pm

lol. Get em, Cheb.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby Doctor » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:00 pm

Cheb wrote:
Doctor wrote:I love this board....

We have our backup QB in, down our star WR, with the lead, in a tough grinding game....

"WHY AREN'T WE PASSING ON FIRST DOWN!?!?"
-BucZone


When we weren't in the two-minute drill at the end of the first half, 21 of our 23 first down calls were runs, often into eight and nine-man boxes for minimal gain. They weren't clever or effective. We had less than 3 yards per carry on the game. This is 1.2 yards less than what is averaged against the Jets (4.2 yards per carry). To those who can't put two and two together, that's bad.

Anyways, back to the game. The two passes that Koetter called on first down were playactions. One was the interception thrown into double coverage behind the intended receiver; as Gannon said during the game, had Fitz led the receiver that was an easy untouched TD. The second was a 20 yard gain to Godwin.

And while the first down runs were obnoxious and foreshadowed and stupid, it was the lack of running at all other times that was the real kicker. You can make noises about being without our starting quarterback and best receiver and leaning on the run to support that, but if that were the case, the offense would be running on second and third down. They didn't. At all. When Koetter calls to run exclusively on first down and then turn around to go Shotgun Fury exclusively on second and third down, then that narrative falls apart. The facts do not support the presumption. We ran it nearly exclusively on first down, and did not run at all on second or third. Because Koetter tips his playcalling. And because he tips his playcalling, we got behind on down-and-distance.

Here are my facts. To wit: we had three rushing plays on second or third down until our touchdown drive midway through the fourth quarter. Let that sink in for a moment.

Two of them were on long down and distance (2nd and 14, 2nd and 16). Only one was a manageable down-and-distance call (2nd and 3).

And on the touchdown drive, when we got rolling? We called as many second and third down runs (three) as we did the entire rest of the game up to that point. Those runs gained 21, 8, and 4 yards respectively, an average of 11 yards per carry.

Do you know what that means? Let me spell it out for you, so it is clear. When Koetter broke his stupid-as-fuck only-run-on-first-down-unless-we-just-got-a-penalty tendency , his run game was nearly four times as effective. Even if you take away the Sims run, the average would be 6 yards per carry, still doubly effective as his stupid first down calls.

We didn't get a rushing first down until the 10:30 in the 4th quarter. The narrative that we ran the ball to protect our depleted offensive skill positions is not held up by the numbers.

Ya'll are full of ****.

But winning whitewashes everything, so you people won't care.

It was stupidly predictable offense. Had the Jets shown up to play, they could have made us pay for it. We had three points at halftime, and nine entering the fourth quarter. It was shitty offense.


Way to play fast and loose with your hindsight goggles there.

Cheb wrote:This could be a stinker of a game. We are without Evans or Winston. 60% of our offensive line missed significant practice time this week with injuries (D Smith, Sweezy, and Dot). Ayers has also been hurt, Gholston is out, and Spence is on IR. Our starting defensive ends have 35 tackles and 5.5 sacks COMBINED in seven career seasons. We will lose this game in the trenches, and lose it badly.

Should be an enlightening afternoon.


Cheb wrote:Jackson didn't adjust to that throw. Coulda caught that one.

Good catch by Godwin. We're marching. Need to keep feeding Martin. He's not doing poorly.

Stocker has whiffed on two run blocks today.


Cheb wrote:This is the first time in a long time, we have more runs than passes in a quarter.

Martin isn't lighting it up, but keep pounding them.
And please, don't run it up the middle vs Williams and Wilkerson. That's sooo stupid and it hasn't worked.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby Cheb » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:31 pm

Doctor wrote:Way to play fast and loose with your hindsight goggles there.

Cheb wrote:This could be a stinker of a game. We are without Evans or Winston. 60% of our offensive line missed significant practice time this week with injuries (D Smith, Sweezy, and Dot). Ayers has also been hurt, Gholston is out, and Spence is on IR. Our starting defensive ends have 35 tackles and 5.5 sacks COMBINED in seven career seasons. We will lose this game in the trenches, and lose it badly.

Should be an enlightening afternoon.


Cheb wrote:Jackson didn't adjust to that throw. Coulda caught that one.

Good catch by Godwin. We're marching. Need to keep feeding Martin. He's not doing poorly.

Stocker has whiffed on two run blocks today.


Cheb wrote:This is the first time in a long time, we have more runs than passes in a quarter.

Martin isn't lighting it up, but keep pounding them.
And please, don't run it up the middle vs Williams and Wilkerson. That's sooo stupid and it hasn't worked.


Let's go through this point by point.

I'm horrible at predicting games. That's fine. It's one of the reasons I don't gamble on sports. I'm generally wrong. I'm much better at games involving strategy. Football, for instance.

As to the second and third quotes, my issue was not the fact that the Bucs ran the ball all the time. Running the ball is awesome. This season, my team has run the ball over 70% of the time. I ****ing love the running game. My problem is when teams run stupidly, which the Bucs were doing. Tipping your play call against a smart opponent is a recipe for disaster. The Jets shut down our run game, holding us a yard below their season average per carry allowed, and we average 0.7 less yards per carry than our average.

Downs are precious, and wasting them is a cardinal sin.

I noticed that you didn't highlight the second part of that third quote. Here, I'll repeat it for you: "And please, don't run it up the middle vs Williams and Wilkerson. That's sooo stupid and it hasn't worked."

Also, it's a classic (and bad) deflection when you attack the person instead of the argument. It means you give up and you're grasping at straws. Lawyers call this an ad hominem logical fallacy.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby Agent Orange » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:40 pm

Doctor wrote:I totally think Smith will be one of those that will benefit a lot by being kicked inside, like Robert Gallery. I've also said on a few occasions I'm all for swapping him and Dot- who has performed well at the LT position.


When we drafted him I said that he graded out as a guard. My concern about that now is there is no way his ass is pulling. He has very little actual athletic ability.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby Doctor » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:08 pm

I'm not attacking you, I'd never do that Cheb. :drinkingcheers:

I'm attacking your argument which is a total monday morning QB. Perhaps the Jets stuffed the run because it was predictable. Perhaps it was- because as you pointed out- the OL was hurt and unprepared. Likely a good mix of both.

Here are our first ten 1st down runs
7 yards
3 yards
1 yards
7 yards
4 yards
4 yards
1 yards
1 yards
-1 yards
14 yards* (penalty)
2 yards

This is what prompted you to make your comment about sticking with the run and rightfully so. Having Fitz throw an INT on first down right after a turnover probably didn't help inspire much confidence. There was ONE thing that was going to cost us this game- turnovers. Sure the Jets picked up on our running on first down eventually and started stuffing it in the third quarter- your totally right. Should DK have changed it after that? IDK, but personally, I was all for the drive that milked HALF of the entire 4th quarter. Those first down runs:
-4 yards
5 yards
0 yards
5 yards
4 yards
... and oh yeah, the drive ended with a TD and sealed the game.


So you can torture the stats all you want but the truth is that running the ball, controlling the clock, and reducing FitzTragic turnovers was the key to victory today. Sure, the injured and unprepared line struggled at times, but why would you possibly want that same line protecting your INT throwing QB instead?
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:40 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:lol. Get em, Cheb.



He left out six 2nd half sacks which can help any offense that is struggling and not compounding mistakes when the plays arent there, for whatever reason.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:52 am

Besides, if I was coach I also would be tempted to say you guys need to learn to run block or else. Just because they are stacked it doesnt mean we shouldnt get a three yard run instead of what we have been seeing. If the d-line is blowing up your run, you didnt do your job, you let the other man get the win.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby sanka » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:54 am

Lol people saying the defense is back just like they were fooled last year. They play the freaking Jets with Mccown as QB.
Last edited by sanka on Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby Caradoc » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:55 am

Yeah, I ain't buying the "defensive turnaround" thing this time either.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:09 am

Doctor wrote:I'm not attacking you, I'd never do that Cheb. :drinkingcheers:

I'm attacking your argument which is a total monday morning QB. Perhaps the Jets stuffed the run because it was predictable. Perhaps it was- because as you pointed out- the OL was hurt and unprepared. Likely a good mix of both.

Here are our first ten 1st down runs
7 yards
3 yards
1 yards
7 yards
4 yards
4 yards
1 yards
1 yards
-1 yards
14 yards* (penalty)
2 yards

This is what prompted you to make your comment about sticking with the run and rightfully so. Having Fitz throw an INT on first down right after a turnover probably didn't help inspire much confidence. There was ONE thing that was going to cost us this game- turnovers. Sure the Jets picked up on our running on first down eventually and started stuffing it in the third quarter- your totally right. Should DK have changed it after that? IDK, but personally, I was all for the drive that milked HALF of the entire 4th quarter. Those first down runs:
-4 yards
5 yards
0 yards
5 yards
4 yards
... and oh yeah, the drive ended with a TD and sealed the game.


So you can torture the stats all you want but the truth is that running the ball, controlling the clock, and reducing FitzTragic turnovers was the key to victory today. Sure, the injured and unprepared line struggled at times, but why would you possibly want that same line protecting your INT throwing QB instead?


Sums up the game perfectly. Fans don't understand the adjustment aspect to football. It's not always pretty. Trying to play outside of the flow of a game can cost you at times. And plus no one whines when 1st down runs get positive yardage.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 10 win vs Jets

Postby Alpha » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:46 am

Cheb wrote:Ya'll are full of ****.

But winning whitewashes everything, so you people won't care.

It was stupidly predictable offense. Had the Jets shown up to play, they could have made us pay for it. We had three points at halftime, and nine entering the fourth quarter. It was shitty offense.


You could've started with this and made your entire point in a single paragraph.

What does it say about the Jets, that they actually LOST to...this abomination?
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