Who do you want to replace Koetter

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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:30 pm

Doctor wrote:
BCULAW wrote:I was not in favor of firing Koetter 2 week’s ago, but the last 2 games has proven to me that he’s lost the locker room.

There's a reason every HC here has "lost the locker room" after a rough start- ownership. What's that, we're 2-4? Guess this season is a wash and we'll have a whole new HC soon. No point in respecting this guy or learning his play book, I'll wait for the next one.


Anyone loser with this mindset needs to find a new sport. Even if you know the writing is on the wall guess what? The new regime actually LOOKS at the tape and evaluates the team they have inherited. If they see some bum half assing it, are you stupid enough to think they'll say "Boy I'm glad this guy saved all of his energy for the new regime". Nope. He's gone. Why do you think new regimes clean house as much as they do? That's 1 of the reasons.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:31 pm

Deuce wrote:
Caradoc wrote:
This is just nonsense. Koetter has been here 3 years, if they don't understand his playbook now, they never will. On defense, there is absolutely no excuse for the team playing as poorly as they have, this has nothing to do with time.

Blaming the ownership? That's retarded, they have nothing to do with the players other than signing their checks. If a coach loses the trust of his players that has nothing to do with them.


idk, I think Doctor made a good point. The players can see the writing on the wall by now. Whether thinking about it or not, it's harder to play for someone who will be fired. They're probably coasting knowing that this season means nothing.

If Pittsburgh were 2-6, the players would know it's gonna be the same GM/HC for the foreseeable future. There would be no incentive for them to ease up and wait for the next regime.


If I'm a new head coach and I see a guy half assing it on tape from the previous year, he's gone. No questions asked. You're a dumbass if you keep quitters on your team and expect a better result.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby Deuce » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:39 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Deuce wrote:
idk, I think Doctor made a good point. The players can see the writing on the wall by now. Whether thinking about it or not, it's harder to play for someone who will be fired. They're probably coasting knowing that this season means nothing.

If Pittsburgh were 2-6, the players would know it's gonna be the same GM/HC for the foreseeable future. There would be no incentive for them to ease up and wait for the next regime.


If I'm a new head coach and I see a guy half assing it on tape from the previous year, he's gone. No questions asked. You're a dumbass if you keep quitters on your team and expect a better result.


In the NFL talent rules all. Ezekiel Elliott flat out quit on a play a few weeks ago. Would you cut him? https://twitter.com/JDue51/status/90956 ... 64/video/1

Didn't Randy Moss or TO admit to not trying on every play?

The effort on Kamara's screen pass yesterday was awful. Especially check out Clinton McDonald. He could've tackled Kamara early in the play but didn't feel like it.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby Swashy » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:39 pm

Jim Harbaugh but I sincerely doubt he's going to leave Michigan to take care of this cluster **** of an organization.

And at this point I'd probably accept Gruden. I will always maintain that Lovie Smith never got a fair shake but I'm sick and tired of these ****ing moron coaches who have no idea how to command a locker room. Morris, Schiano and now Koetter were all victim of entire teams quitting on them before midseason because they have no ***damn idea how to adjust their game plan. Not that Gruden adjusts any better but the man knows how to get people to buy in. Coaching this offense would be a wet dream for him and I'd be almost positive that he would come out of retirement to be with us again.

It's not like he left Tampa to begin with anyway.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:43 pm

Deuce wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
If I'm a new head coach and I see a guy half assing it on tape from the previous year, he's gone. No questions asked. You're a dumbass if you keep quitters on your team and expect a better result.


In the NFL talent rules all. Ezekiel Elliott flat out quit on a play a few weeks ago. Would you cut him? https://twitter.com/JDue51/status/90956 ... 64/video/1

Didn't Randy Moss or TO admit to not trying on every play?

The effort on Kamara's screen pass yesterday was awful. Especially check out Clinton McDonald. He could've tackled Kamara early in the play but didn't feel like it.


You're talking about isolated incidents vs a full half a season worth of quitting. Quitting on a play is not the same as quitting for 8 games because you anticipate a coaching change.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby Swashy » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:44 pm

And by the way TJax you truly need to read more and post less. Gruden might run a vanilla offense but guess what big guy... it's been working for 30 years and some of the most successful franchises (namely New England and Green Bay) run some standard variation of his West Coast offense. We have the personnel to run a more aggressive offense like we did in 2002 and on paper, this Bucs offense is vastly superior to them. Gruden could bring back all the dink and dunk he wants and it would serve us better than Winston overthrowing his receivers by 10 feet on every deep route we run.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby beardmcdoug » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:51 pm

agreed Swashy.

I'd only fire Koetter if it was 100% locked up that Gruden was coming in to replace him.

I truly wonder if the Glazer boys have privately reached out to him in any capacity regarding this possibility - even if to gauge interest
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:53 pm

Look at what is going on in LA with Sean McVay. That is what we should aim for, young and creative. But we'll probably go nostalgic and bring back Gruden.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:04 pm

Miller4Prez64 wrote:Look at what is going on in LA with Sean McVay. That is what we should aim for, young and creative. But we'll probably go nostalgic and bring back Gruden.


I didn't know McVay would be available to us in the off-season.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:09 pm

Miller4Prez64 wrote:Look at what is going on in LA with Sean McVay. That is what we should aim for, young and creative. But we'll probably go nostalgic and bring back Gruden.


Fwiw, Rams hotshot new HC Sean McVay is a Gruden disciple. Was brought in during Jon's final season here in Tampa back in 2008 and then went to continue his coaching development as part of Jay Gruden's staff w/ the Florida Tuskers in the UFL in 2009.

When Jay Gruden got the HC job for the Redskins in 2014 he immediately promoted (then TE coach) Sean McVay to OC. The rest as they say, is history.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:15 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Miller4Prez64 wrote:Look at what is going on in LA with Sean McVay. That is what we should aim for, young and creative. But we'll probably go nostalgic and bring back Gruden.


I didn't know McVay would be available to us in the off-season.


:roll:
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby Swashy » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:16 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:agreed Swashy.

I'd only fire Koetter if it was 100% locked up that Gruden was coming in to replace him.

I truly wonder if the Glazer boys have privately reached out to him in any capacity regarding this possibility - even if to gauge interest


I'd fire Koetter if I knew Harbaugh was coming in too. The wonders he would do for our defense. Hell I might even take Jim Leavitt as our DC were he to follow Harbaugh to Tampa. I hope they've reached out to both men to at least gauge interest because this is ****ing ridiculous. You do not continue with a coach that the team has quit on.

We have a GM who got rid of a perfectly adequate kicker to somehow manage outdo the blunder of Booker Reese of the worst draft pick in team history. He needs to go as well. At this rate, give me Gruden's evaluation of special teams players over Jason Licht's at the expense of him practically being the GM. The kicking position has singlehandedly cost us 4 or more games since Lovie took over 3 years ago.

Remember Kyle Brindza? LOL!!!

I cannot believe I'm saying this but Gruden would actually work very well here. We need to limit Winston's cavalier attitude. It's going to cost us games. While Gruden doesn't come from the shotgun fury school of offense, we know he has deep plays in the arsenal. We saw it all of 2002 and we likely would see it again next season were Gruden to take over.

I've had nearly a decade to absolve myself of the trauma Gruden put me through but seeing as we have a franchise QB that would make Jonny boy jizz in his pants faster than a virgin getting a lap dance at a strip club, I doubt that things would go down the same way as they did back then were we to hire him.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby DanTurksGhost » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:28 pm

Go out and find a guy whose unit is getting it done without any big name players on it. That's who you want coaching. That shows he can coach the talent he has, and that he's not being carried by his superstars. Any coach can look good if he's got seven ProBowlers out of elevent starting for him.

Any assistants in the league fit that mold? Can you name any assistant whose squad is kicking ass despite not having any stars you can name?
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby beardmcdoug » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:28 pm

Swashy wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:agreed Swashy.

I'd only fire Koetter if it was 100% locked up that Gruden was coming in to replace him.

I truly wonder if the Glazer boys have privately reached out to him in any capacity regarding this possibility - even if to gauge interest


I'd fire Koetter if I knew Harbaugh was coming in too. The wonders he would do for our defense. Hell I might even take Jim Leavitt as our DC were he to follow Harbaugh to Tampa. I hope they've reached out to both men to at least gauge interest because this is ****ing ridiculous. You do not continue with a coach that the team has quit on.

We have a GM who got rid of a perfectly adequate kicker to somehow manage outdo the blunder of Booker Reese of the worst draft pick in team history. He needs to go as well. At this rate, give me Gruden's evaluation of special teams players over Jason Licht's at the expense of him practically being the GM. The kicking position has singlehandedly cost us 4 or more games since Lovie took over 3 years ago.

Remember Kyle Brindza? LOL!!!

I cannot believe I'm saying this but Gruden would actually work very well here. We need to limit Winston's cavalier attitude. It's going to cost us games. While Gruden doesn't come from the shotgun fury school of offense, we know he has deep plays in the arsenal. We saw it all of 2002 and we likely would see it again next season were Gruden to take over.

I've had nearly a decade to absolve myself of the trauma Gruden put me through but seeing as we have a franchise QB that would make Jonny boy jizz in his pants faster than a virgin getting a lap dance at a strip club, I doubt that things would go down the same way as they did back then were we to hire him.


lmao I hear ya
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby KiffininCanton » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:31 pm

Swashy wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:agreed Swashy.

I'd only fire Koetter if it was 100% locked up that Gruden was coming in to replace him.

I truly wonder if the Glazer boys have privately reached out to him in any capacity regarding this possibility - even if to gauge interest


I've had nearly a decade to absolve myself of the trauma Gruden put me through but seeing as we have a franchise QB that would make Jonny boy jizz in his pants faster than a virgin getting a lap dance at a strip club, I doubt that things would go down the same way as they did back then were we to hire him.


every QB makes Gruden jizz his pants until they are on his roster for a month, than he starts lusting for some other QB somewhere else
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:34 pm

DanTurksGhost wrote:Go out and find a guy whose unit is getting it done without any big name players on it. That's who you want coaching. That shows he can coach the talent he has, and that he's not being carried by his superstars. Any coach can look good if he's got seven ProBowlers out of elevent starting for him.

Any assistants in the league fit that mold? Can you name any assistant whose squad is kicking ass despite not having any stars you can name?


Hell no to that. All that shows me is a coach that's unable to develop talent. More than likely that unit is overachieving and getting lucky. If a guy is doing his job and his players are improving the talent will shine thru and they will get recognized.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby KiffininCanton » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:35 pm

Swashy wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:agreed Swashy.

I'd only fire Koetter if it was 100% locked up that Gruden was coming in to replace him.

I truly wonder if the Glazer boys have privately reached out to him in any capacity regarding this possibility - even if to gauge interest


At this rate, give me Gruden's evaluation of special teams players over Jason Licht's at the expense of him practically being the GM. The kicking position has singlehandedly cost us 4 or more games since Lovie took over 3 years ago.


The Gruden-Allen drafts make Licht look like Ron Wolf.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:44 pm

tjax03 wrote:Spider 3 Y Banana doesnt work anymore.


that's funny, because the Saints ran Spider 2 Y banana at least twice that I noticed yesterday.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby DanTurksGhost » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:45 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Hell no to that. All that shows me is a coach that's unable to develop talent. More than likely that unit is overachieving and getting lucky. If a guy is doing his job and his players are improving the talent will shine thru and they will get recognized.


Phew! I feel MUCH better that you're disagreeing with me. It solidifies my point. Thanks!
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:51 pm

DanTurksGhost wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Hell no to that. All that shows me is a coach that's unable to develop talent. More than likely that unit is overachieving and getting lucky. If a guy is doing his job and his players are improving the talent will shine thru and they will get recognized.


Phew! I feel MUCH better that you're disagreeing with me. It solidifies my point. Thanks!


Except that you can't find 1 instance of the point you're trying to make in the league. That's why you asked for one. Good coaches develop talent.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby murdock » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:04 pm

Why would Gruden come back? He's already won a chip and has a nice kushy job making good money up in the booth.. and going back to a team/ownership that fired him in the 1st place might be a bit awkward. Maybe someone like a Bill Cowher or Mike Shannahan who instantly commands respect can be convinced to come out of retirement? Just to steady the ship.. I don't understand how this team can come up with losing coaching staff after losing coaching staff... repeatedly its the same story over and over again

If its an offensive or defensive coordinator I hope it's at least from an up and coming coaching tree that is a winning team..
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby MarineBuc » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:17 pm

DanTurksGhost wrote:Go out and find a guy whose unit is getting it done without any big name players on it. That's who you want coaching. That shows he can coach the talent he has, and that he's not being carried by his superstars. Any coach can look good if he's got seven ProBowlers out of elevent starting for him.

Any assistants in the league fit that mold? Can you name any assistant whose squad is kicking ass despite not having any stars you can name?


Frank Reich is a name that comes to mind. Not because the "superstars" issue, but because he has been successful with QB's. Who can argue with what he has done with Wentz? Prior to Wentz, he had Rivers in San Diego, and prior to working with QB's...he worked with WRs in Arizona.

Just spitballing here because I am still not sure we need to can Koetter. Another performance like yesterday's and it very well may mean doomsday for this staff.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby PetePierson » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:53 pm

The Big Tuna. I really think the 4th time is the charm with Parcells.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby DanTurksGhost » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:57 pm

MarineBuc wrote:Just spitballing here because I am still not sure we need to can Koetter. Another performance like yesterday's and it very well may mean doomsday for this staff.


With half the season to go, I think we can be pretty much assured of at least one more crappy performance.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby I Are Serious Poster » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:17 pm

MarineBuc wrote:
DanTurksGhost wrote:Go out and find a guy whose unit is getting it done without any big name players on it. That's who you want coaching. That shows he can coach the talent he has, and that he's not being carried by his superstars. Any coach can look good if he's got seven ProBowlers out of elevent starting for him.

Any assistants in the league fit that mold? Can you name any assistant whose squad is kicking ass despite not having any stars you can name?


Frank Reich is a name that comes to mind. Not because the "superstars" issue, but because he has been successful with QB's. Who can argue with what he has done with Wentz? Prior to Wentz, he had Rivers in San Diego, and prior to working with QB's...he worked with WRs in Arizona.


Qb coach in Indy prior to that as well. His QB career in Buffalo as backup to Kelly was damn impressive as well. I don't know if he has the qualities necessary to be a head coach but I hope the Glazers do their due diligence to find out, because he is intriguing.

On Gruden, he'll want to much personal control for my taste. He simply has no talent for assembling a team.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby Caradoc » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:06 pm

Deuce wrote:
Caradoc wrote:
This is just nonsense. Koetter has been here 3 years, if they don't understand his playbook now, they never will. On defense, there is absolutely no excuse for the team playing as poorly as they have, this has nothing to do with time.

Blaming the ownership? That's retarded, they have nothing to do with the players other than signing their checks. If a coach loses the trust of his players that has nothing to do with them.


idk, I think Doctor made a good point. The players can see the writing on the wall by now. Whether thinking about it or not, it's harder to play for someone who will be fired. They're probably coasting knowing that this season means nothing.

If Pittsburgh were 2-6, the players would know it's gonna be the same GM/HC for the foreseeable future. There would be no incentive for them to ease up and wait for the next regime.


Both you and Doctor have it backwards. The quit didn't come because the coaches look like they're getting fired, the coaches look like they're getting fired because of the quit.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby Deja Entendu » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:10 pm

Wharf Rat wrote:
Deja Entendu wrote:However, if he's canned, I would like Josh McDaniels. I think that he is going to become a hell of a Head Coach in his next go at it.


What makes you think that?


In his brief stint as a HC, he showed a lot of promise and the ability to adapt to his players skill sets. I don't think there's any question about his abilities as a dynamic offensive coach.

The knocks on him and the reasons he ultimately failed in Denver were almost certainly due to being in over his head and a level of immaturity that just didn't cut it at that level. He was in his early 30s. It's been damn near a decade.

He's had all of that time to mature as a person and a coach, to soak in the criticisms of his mistakes, and to reflect on his own flaws. And, he's had all of that time for personal and professional growth while being a major part of what is probably the greatest and most dominate sports franchise of this generation, alongside the greatest coach in the history of the sport.

I don't think it's a major leap of faith to think that when he becomes a Head Coach again, which he most certainly will, that he becomes a DAMNED good one.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby GameTime » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:54 pm

Im surprised at all the love for gruden. I admire what he did the last time around, but this is a totally different situation/team we have. We have a suspect OL, an inconsistent QB, a question mark at RB, and a porous D. Not quite 2002. Especially regarding the D.
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby Babeinbucland » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:32 pm

I’m a bit stunned tbh about Gruden getting so much love on this board. When he was finally fired most on the original Bucs board were thrilled that their screaming for his head was granted. What has changed about Gruden that makes any of you think he is the answer now????
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Re: Who do you want to replace Koetter

Postby BacksidePursuit » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:13 am

Arians if he was looking for a fresh start with a moldable QB. Might take a lot to get him.

Gruden I guess.

Where is our Sean Mcvay?
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