REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Wesmon » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:34 am

beardmcdoug wrote:
DanTurksGhost wrote:
Coach Dungy and all of his assistants constantly re-stated the mantra "you have to trust the process". Over and over again. If a guy piped up that he's not understanding his role or he's not happy or that he feels like he's not playing the way he thinks he should play, they'd always, ALWAYS, say: "trust the process and we'll be successful". It was like a lockerroom mantra.

The thing is, people believed Coach Dungy. I don't think people believe Coach Koetter.


But I also think Dungy and Koetter are cut from two different cloths.

Dungy is THE classic "calm and collected/conservative/nothing penetrates his persona" coach

Koetter is more of a straight shooter/outward realist. He was also a OC by trade, let very aggressive down-the-field attacking offenses and therefore puts out an "attack the other team" attitude. But for some reason that message has seemed to dissipate this year. We're playing scared and hesitant. It's not at all what Koetter has been putting forward the 2 years before this. It's weird



Between the way he acted when our players were fighting on Sunday and some of the statements he has made to the media this week, Koetter definitely seems like his confidence is shattered. Not a good look for a head coach.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Kress » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:16 am

I like beardmcdoug in this thread. A leader doesn't need a gimmick to get attention. He just needs to say "pay attention to this," and if he's a leader people will.

Apply that to Jameis with his speeches, Koetter with his coaching tactics, the Glazers with hiring and firings, whatever. Drastic action should not be necessary.

You generally know a leader the second you meet him. This organization lacks a single one that I can see.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:29 am

Kress wrote:I like beardmcdoug in this thread. A leader doesn't need a gimmick to get attention. He just needs to say "pay attention to this," and if he's a leader people will.

Apply that to Jameis with his speeches, Koetter with his coaching tactics, the Glazers with hiring and firings, whatever. Drastic action should not be necessary.

You generally know a leader the second you meet him. This organization lacks a single one that I can see.


So now Jameis isn't a leader? Lmao. I said it once I'll say it again: when a team is struggling the stupid really comes out in casuals.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:33 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
Kress wrote:I like beardmcdoug in this thread. A leader doesn't need a gimmick to get attention. He just needs to say "pay attention to this," and if he's a leader people will.

Apply that to Jameis with his speeches, Koetter with his coaching tactics, the Glazers with hiring and firings, whatever. Drastic action should not be necessary.

You generally know a leader the second you meet him. This organization lacks a single one that I can see.


So now Jameis isn't a leader? Lmao. I said it once I'll say it again: when a team is struggling the stupid really comes out in casuals.


A leader of men.



this is not how a leader of men acts. that's how a gimmicky leader of boys acts. I love him but dude needs to grow up fast
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:36 am

beardmcdoug wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
So now Jameis isn't a leader? Lmao. I said it once I'll say it again: when a team is struggling the stupid really comes out in casuals.


A leader of men.



this is not how a leader of men acts. that's how a gimmicky leader of boys acts. I love him but dude needs to grow up fast


So everyone has been wrong saying he's a leader for the last 5+ years? And that conclusion came after 1 pregame speech?
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Kress » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:40 am

beardmcdoug wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
So now Jameis isn't a leader? Lmao. I said it once I'll say it again: when a team is struggling the stupid really comes out in casuals.


A leader of men.



this is not how a leader of men acts. that's how a gimmicky leader of boys acts. I love him but dude needs to grow up fast



Yes. See the delay in the players' responses? They were uncomfortable. They eventually engaged due to that uncomfortability and their own team mentality, but they were not buying what he was selling.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby DanTurksGhost » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:41 am

beardmcdoug wrote:this is not how a leader of men acts. that's how a gimmicky leader of boys acts. I love him but dude needs to grow up fast


Some bewildered looks on the faces of his teammates. DJax is looking like: "Holy ****, what have I gotten into here?". This video show Jameis is trying too hard, just like he does when the team is down in a game. He's converted to hero mode, or what he thinks is hero mode. This doesn't present well at all. It's childish.

I like Jameis. Love his passion. But this is just too much, and it's how you get your guys to start doubting you.

Back under Coach Dungy, everyone preached a unified message. There were no divides. Every coach was on the same page, at least in front of the team. Coach Dungy exuded confidence. Quiet, reserved confidence. You believed him, you trusted him, you knew that when he said "trust the system, do your part and not try to do the other guy's job and we'll be successful" you believed it because you KNOW he meant it. Coach Dungy never seemed in over his head.

I don't know if that applies to Coach Koetter at this point. I seriously doubt his ability to be effective and to pull this team out of the tailspin. Jameis isn't helping. He's trying, I know, but he's not helping.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby DanTurksGhost » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:44 am

Bootz2004 wrote:So everyone has been wrong saying he's a leader for the last 5+ years? And that conclusion came after 1 pregame speech?


Nope, he's a leader. But now he's reaching. This is over the top, and it is clear from the reactions of the guys around him that they're not buying it. It doesn't come across as genuine, or organic, it's pretty farcical, to be frank. Just look at how these guys do/don't react...
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:48 am

It's to the point of piling on now. Jameis' finger licking pre-game speech was certainly odd, but he's an eccentric guy and just got carried away with that one. If we see those become more erratic in the future I'd worry, but one impulsive odd moment isn't going to change my opinion when the guy has delivered so many passionate pre-game speeches in his first 30_ games. Up until Sunday I don't think I don't remember much if any chatter about his leadership ability, now after 1 bad day he's all of the sudden a poor leader? I don't buy that.

Jameis and this franchise are at a low point right now after all the expectations heading into the season. But just 2 weeks ago, after the loss to Buffalo nobody had any real issue w/ Jameis' play or leadership other than his deep ball needing drastic improvement and wanting to continue see see the gradual development he's shown since he was drafted. Now after 2 poor games (with a injured shoulder) he's a never going to get better and is a poor leader based on the comments from alot of the fan base.

I understand there is concern and frustration. But mark my words, Jameis Winston will be fine. His shoulder will heal and he will learn from this. I'm still in the kids corner and believe in him to pull both himself and this team through this in time. Let's not decide the kids fate based on 2 poor weeks while he was injured. He's the best asset this franchise has and if we're going to get to where we all want it's going to be with him at QB.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Kress » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:53 am

DreadNaught wrote:Iwhen the guy has delivered so many passionate pre-game speeches in his first 30_ games



He shouldn't have to
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby DanTurksGhost » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:58 am

DreadNaught wrote:It's to the point of piling on now. Jameis' finger licking pre-game speech was certainly odd, but he's an eccentric guy and just got carried away with that one. If we see those become more erratic in the future I'd worry, but one impulsive odd moment isn't going to change my opinion when the guy has delivered so many passionate pre-game speeches in his first 30_ games. Up until Sunday I don't think I don't remember much if any chatter about his leadership ability, now after 1 bad day he's all of the sudden a poor leader? I don't buy that.


Easily said from the comfort of home. We're not the ones standing there around him with the "WTF?" expression on our faces. And at least I'm not saying he's a poor leader. He's a passionate leader. But this pre-game speech came out all wrong.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:05 pm

DreadNaught wrote:But mark my words, Jameis Winston will be fine. His shoulder will heal and he will learn from this. I'm still in the kids corner and believe in him to pull both himself and this team through this in time. Let's not decide the kids fate based on 2 poor weeks while he was injured. He's the best asset this franchise has and if we're going to get to where we all want it's going to be with him at QB.


no I am 100% in agreement with you here DN. Everybody is in a process of "growing up" - and sometimes you take a step back in your process. Jameis is in a leadership regression right now, as DTG is saying, he's converted to "hero mode, or what he thinks of as a hero", and he just needs to take a couple deep breaths, refocus, and continue his ascension. And I truly believe that he will. But that doesn't occur if he doesn't just pump the brakes, reflect, and refocus.

The more I think about it, I think the "couple games" is a better approach than flat out IR. A forced 2-3-4 game "breath" will be be great for him. He's the type of guy that wants to hit his next shot ASAP too though. IR will put almost 10 months of sitting and stewing about this terrible note he left the season on and it'll be a lot of pressure for him to show up next year looking like Brady after such a long break, etc. It'll be good for him to gut it out to finish the season fighting and pick up next season in normal stride. But he does need this 2-3-4 game break right now.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:08 pm

DanTurksGhost wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:It's to the point of piling on now. Jameis' finger licking pre-game speech was certainly odd, but he's an eccentric guy and just got carried away with that one. If we see those become more erratic in the future I'd worry, but one impulsive odd moment isn't going to change my opinion when the guy has delivered so many passionate pre-game speeches in his first 30_ games. Up until Sunday I don't think I don't remember much if any chatter about his leadership ability, now after 1 bad day he's all of the sudden a poor leader? I don't buy that.


Easily said from the comfort of home. We're not the ones standing there around him with the "WTF?" expression on our faces. And at least I'm not saying he's a poor leader. He's a passionate leader. But this pre-game speech came out all wrong.


I agree. But that was a one-time occurrence so that is how it should be treated until it becomes habitual. It was a bad look and he's certainly be called out by players, media, and fans. I'm not trying to make excuses for that pre-game speech, just saying every other time he's made a similar speech it hasn't been weird like that so I'm going to give him a pass on the first occurrence with the belief he'll learn from it.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Kress » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:12 pm

It was forced leadership, plain and simple. That never works. You know a leader the second you meet him. Not after the 10 minutes that he tells you so.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:18 pm

Kress wrote:It was forced leadership, plain and simple. That never works. You know a leader the second you meet him. Not after the 10 minutes that he tells you so.


I guarantee you if he did this pregame against the Bears everyone would laugh about it. But at 2-5 and 4 straight losses it's all of a sudden forced leadership. Jameis has done a lot of pregame speeches with similar tones and no one gave them a 2nd thought.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby NYBF » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:21 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Kress wrote:It was forced leadership, plain and simple. That never works. You know a leader the second you meet him. Not after the 10 minutes that he tells you so.


I guarantee you if he did this pregame against the Bears everyone would laugh about it. But at 2-5 and 4 straight losses it's all of a sudden forced leadership. Jameis has done a lot of pregame speeches with similar tones and no one gave them a 2nd thought.


I wouldn't have laughed. That was embarrassing. Eat a W. He looked like he was practicing to suck a **** out there instead.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:27 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Kress wrote:It was forced leadership, plain and simple. That never works. You know a leader the second you meet him. Not after the 10 minutes that he tells you so.


I guarantee you if he did this pregame against the Bears everyone would laugh about it. But at 2-5 and 4 straight losses it's all of a sudden forced leadership. Jameis has done a lot of pregame speeches with similar tones and no one gave them a 2nd thought.


part of it is being aware of the circumstances, having your pulse on the attitude of your men, and responding with what inspires them. this was exactly why that was all wrong. it showed he was disconnected
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby ComingThisFall » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:29 pm

NYBF wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
I guarantee you if he did this pregame against the Bears everyone would laugh about it. But at 2-5 and 4 straight losses it's all of a sudden forced leadership. Jameis has done a lot of pregame speeches with similar tones and no one gave them a 2nd thought.


I wouldn't have laughed. That was embarrassing. Eat a W. He looked like he was practicing to suck a **** out there instead.


I thought he wanted to **** her right in the *****
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Kress » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:34 pm

Nicely played.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Jason Bourne » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:48 pm

NYBF wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
I guarantee you if he did this pregame against the Bears everyone would laugh about it. But at 2-5 and 4 straight losses it's all of a sudden forced leadership. Jameis has done a lot of pregame speeches with similar tones and no one gave them a 2nd thought.


I wouldn't have laughed. That was embarrassing. Eat a W. He looked like he was practicing to suck a **** out there instead.

Lol. Yep
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby sonofg » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:41 pm

Jason Bourne wrote:
NYBF wrote:
I wouldn't have laughed. That was embarrassing. Eat a W. He looked like he was practicing to suck a **** out there instead.

Lol. Yep


That speech would have been cringeworthy even if it was before a SuperBowl where the Bucs demolished the opponent 42-0. Judging from the reactions of the other players, it clearly didn't land. From the clip I've seen, Kwon Alexander even jumped in to interrupt/save the situation or something.
Just because he went too far this time and people react doesn't mean noone has cringed at the other "eat a W" speeches...
His speech before the game after Kwon had lost his brother was the opposite, where he really seemed to connect with the team
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Super K » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:04 pm

sonofg wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:Lol. Yep


That speech would have been cringeworthy even if it was before a SuperBowl where the Bucs demolished the opponent 42-0. Judging from the reactions of the other players, it clearly didn't land. From the clip I've seen, Kwon Alexander even jumped in to interrupt/save the situation or something.
Just because he went too far this time and people react doesn't mean noone has cringed at the other "eat a W" speeches...
His speech before the game after Kwon had lost his brother was the opposite, where he really seemed to connect with the team


Yep...
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:22 pm

sonofg wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:Lol. Yep


That speech would have been cringeworthy even if it was before a SuperBowl where the Bucs demolished the opponent 42-0. Judging from the reactions of the other players, it clearly didn't land. From the clip I've seen, Kwon Alexander even jumped in to interrupt/save the situation or something.
Just because he went too far this time and people react doesn't mean noone has cringed at the other "eat a W" speeches...
His speech before the game after Kwon had lost his brother was the opposite, where he really seemed to connect with the team


Kwon didn't step in or interrupt anything. Kwon was actually supposed to give the pre-game speech and Jameis wanted to get a word in before. In fact if you pay attention you can hear Jameis say in the beginning (prior to any weird finger sucking) "before I give this off to Kwon".

Perhaps Jameis making a pre-game speech when Kwon was supposed to added to the awkwardness of the situation, but the finger sucking certainly took it to another level of weirdness.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Teitan » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:28 pm

It was the finger thing. He gave an “eat a W” speech before that wasn’t so bad. It was cringeworthy when he got the **** sucking W eating going.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:39 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:It's a mindset thing to me. I'm in Doctor's camp - option 5)

I'm sorry, I love winston, but he needs to cut the college-tier "crazy hype" bullshit. That pump up before the game is indicative of it. The silly rhymes with the QB's before the game is indicative of it. Stop ****ing trying to bond with silly ****. Be a leader of men. Be stoic. Stop acting like a 13 year old who's had too much sugar. This is a fuckin grown ass man's game, cut the bullshit



Umm

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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:36 pm

mdb1958 wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:It's a mindset thing to me. I'm in Doctor's camp - option 5)

I'm sorry, I love winston, but he needs to cut the college-tier "crazy hype" bullshit. That pump up before the game is indicative of it. The silly rhymes with the QB's before the game is indicative of it. Stop ****ing trying to bond with silly ****. Be a leader of men. Be stoic. Stop acting like a 13 year old who's had too much sugar. This is a fuckin grown ass man's game, cut the bullshit



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lmao mdb!!
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Caradoc » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:58 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
DanTurksGhost wrote:
Easily said from the comfort of home. We're not the ones standing there around him with the "WTF?" expression on our faces. And at least I'm not saying he's a poor leader. He's a passionate leader. But this pre-game speech came out all wrong.


I agree. But that was a one-time occurrence so that is how it should be treated until it becomes habitual. It was a bad look and he's certainly be called out by players, media, and fans. I'm not trying to make excuses for that pre-game speech, just saying every other time he's made a similar speech it hasn't been weird like that so I'm going to give him a pass on the first occurrence with the belief he'll learn from it.


I wouldn't be too quick to understate the importance of that speech. He jumped the shark there and went from "enthusiastic eccentric" to "WTF is wrong with this kid". Maybe with some time off from playing and speechifying it'll be water under the bridge, but it's potentially a big issue, especially with him not playing well lately. Come back later, play well, and stuff may be forgiven, but that is never going to be forgotten. Every time he dials it up to 11, the eyes are going to roll for a lot of the players. It's like the kid who wet his pants in the school play. He's always going to be "the kid who wet his pants in the school play".

Honestly his speeches were getting mildly annoying already. You can't keep it ratcheted up that high all the time. Hopefully this is a learning experience for him.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Jason Bourne » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:41 pm

I’d like to see Fitz speech Sunday with a bunch of multi syllabic words and composed delivery .
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:49 pm

His pregame enthusiasm is all but a waste when you don't take care of business on the field with a win. if he pulls that personality out in the huddle its no wonder. Once he takes the field he should transform into an all about business, leader. His persona should demand excellence and perfection as he shows everyone else that's what he is all about.

Actually its more than a waste, it makes you a fraud and incapable of backing up what your wanting and turning it into bs.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Jason Bourne » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:59 pm

mdb1958 wrote:His pregame enthusiasm is all but a waste when you don't take care of business on the field with a win. if he pulls that personality out in the huddle its no wonder. Once he takes the field he should transform into an all about business, leader. His persona should demand excellence and perfection as he shows everyone else that's what he is all about.

Actually its more than a waste, it makes you a fraud and incapable of backing up what your wanting and turning it into bs.


Ray Lewis gave speeches sans eating Ws but he backed it up on the field .
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