REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby UbuntuBuc » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:08 pm

Truebuc wrote:Anymore news on this after this pathetic showing today


There won't be an update so quickly after the game. C'mon... think about it.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby deltbucs » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:32 pm

DanTurksGhost wrote:Sometimes you need an outside perspective to help you better understand exactly where the problems are so that you can address them.

I'm actually quite thrilled to hear that the ownership is bringing in consultants for this. This should always happen. It's not like these guys know much about football or where the real issue resides.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby KiffininCanton » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:43 pm

deltbucs wrote:
DanTurksGhost wrote:Sometimes you need an outside perspective to help you better understand exactly where the problems are so that you can address them.

I'm actually quite thrilled to hear that the ownership is bringing in consultants for this. This should always happen. It's not like these guys know much about football or where the real issue resides.


agree

this has been the Glazers problem. They make these in house hires like Raheem and Dirk without any outside interviews or input, when they don't know jack about football.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby BucaRican » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:09 pm

Scott Frost for OC
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Alpha » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:48 am

So...IF I'm reading the tea leaves correctly, this is where we're at:

In the span of (roughly) 12 games, not only has Koetter and Smith lost this team but have become terrible at their job(s).

They've gone from "exactly what this franchise needed" to "fire everyone".

You people are hilarious...and this is why we are Cleveland.



IF you want to start with the hatchets...start with Licht. The coaching staff didn't forget how to coach or scheme. Our GM is a "first-timer". I think we can all agree that a lot of his personnel moves have been questionable. At best. From drafting to FA...he has been shaky, to say the least.

Personally...I don't give a tinker's **** who we have in charge...but for the love of Christ...surely you people can see that changing regimes every 2 ****ing years is a recipe for disaster.

Y'all need to calm your tits. This season is a sunk cost...but it's not necessarily the worst thing to happen to this franchise. We were looking at a .500 year regardless. I'd rather suck balls than finish .500...so maybe we can do something right and not win meaningless games from here on out. That means IR'ing Jameis. That dude will give every effort to win...and we can't have that.

We need to keep DJax and Baker...at ALL cost. They are malcontents and cancers...EXACTLY what this team needs to continue sucking.

Waive Ward. He has far too much experience with a winning organization to be on this team. His "shot across the bow" after the AZ loss should've told all of us where this team is. He was right. He needs to go. We can't have his professionalism and standards ****ing up this "team" of jagoffs.

Maybe...one day...we can aspire to be Cleveland.

Time to bust out the paper bags, kids.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby UbuntuBuc » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:46 am

Alpha:

There are going to be three camps...

1) The team has talent and the coaching is the issue,
2) The team has no talent and the coaching is fine,
3) The team has no talent and the coaching is an issue.

You clearly appear to be in the 2nd option. You feel the issue is Licht.

I guess we can add one more...

4) The coaching and the front office are not in sync. There is talent, but it does not fit the scheme the coaches want to use.

I dunno... fracking team is borked. At my age I am just glad I saw them play competitive football for a few years and win one Superbowl.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Ken Carson » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:52 am

I think the roster is competitive. But it is missing the elite front 4 that you NEED to be competitive in the league these days. That's were the Aguayo pick hurts. We needed pass rush there. And we need to get over the Gaines Adams specter and grab the best DL players we see for a few first rounds.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Doctor » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:55 am

UbuntuBuc wrote:Alpha:

There are going to be three camps...

1) The team has talent and the coaching is the issue,
2) The team has no talent and the coaching is fine,
3) The team has no talent and the coaching is an issue.

You clearly appear to be in the 2nd option. You feel the issue is Licht.

I guess we can add one more...

4) The coaching and the front office are not in sync. There is talent, but it does not fit the scheme the coaches want to use.

I dunno... fracking team is borked. At my age I am just glad I saw them play competitive football for a few years and win one Superbowl.



5) This team has talent, coaching is fine, character and effort are the issue.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:56 am

Ken Carson wrote:I think the roster is competitive. But it is missing the elite front 4 that you NEED to be competitive in the league these days. That's were the Aguayo pick hurts. We needed pass rush there. And we need to get over the Gaines Adams specter and grab the best DL players we see for a few first rounds.


I agree our front 4 needs to add some talent. But the Saints are on fire right now with meh talent on the Dline. Cam Jordan is a stud and Rankins has been playing good, but I'm not sure the Saints Dline is more talented than ours despite how they are playing much better.

I just don't think it one position group right now, the team overall is a mess.

We're not doing anything well.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby beardmcdoug » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:28 am

It's a mindset thing to me. I'm in Doctor's camp - option 5)

I'm sorry, I love winston, but he needs to cut the college-tier "crazy hype" bullshit. That pump up before the game is indicative of it. The silly rhymes with the QB's before the game is indicative of it. Stop ****ing trying to bond with silly ****. Be a leader of men. Be stoic. Stop acting like a 13 year old who's had too much sugar. This is a fuckin grown ass man's game, cut the bullshit
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby bucfanclw » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:32 am

Doctor wrote:
UbuntuBuc wrote:Alpha:

There are going to be three camps...

1) The team has talent and the coaching is the issue,
2) The team has no talent and the coaching is fine,
3) The team has no talent and the coaching is an issue.

You clearly appear to be in the 2nd option. You feel the issue is Licht.

I guess we can add one more...

4) The coaching and the front office are not in sync. There is talent, but it does not fit the scheme the coaches want to use.

I dunno... fracking team is borked. At my age I am just glad I saw them play competitive football for a few years and win one Superbowl.



5) This team has talent, coaching is fine, character and effort are the issue.

6)
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby DanTurksGhost » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:37 pm

Look past the individual plays and look instead at the overall demeanor and composure of the team. This team is undisciplined. That's bad coaching, IMO. Which team looks better to you? The Bucs or the Jets?

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/11/03/ ... ork-bills/
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby UbuntuBuc » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:05 pm

Preach to the choir.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby tjax03 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:34 pm

DanTurksGhost wrote:Look past the individual plays and look instead at the overall demeanor and composure of the team. This team is undisciplined. That's bad coaching, IMO. Which team looks better to you? The Bucs or the Jets?

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/11/03/ ... ork-bills/



At this point the bucs are the cleveland browns of the south.

yearly ineptitude from top to bottom. poorly ran franchise all the way to the owners
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Agent Orange » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:04 pm

It really makes me angry watching John lynch own it so far in San Fran. They aren't winning games yet but in a year or two they will be making the playoffs. We are going to blow up the team and start over once again. Gotta hand it to the 49ers for picking Lynch out of nowhere and giving him a long contract and the power to rebuild that team. They are going to be fun to watch soon.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Jason Bourne » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:35 pm

Agent Orange wrote:It really makes me angry watching John lynch own it so far in San Fran. They aren't winning games yet but in a year or two they will be making the playoffs. We are going to blow up the team and start over once again. Gotta hand it to the 49ers for picking Lynch out of nowhere and giving him a long contract and the power to rebuild that team. They are going to be fun to watch soon.


A year or 2 ? Think they have a lot longer than that
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Cheb » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:12 pm

Agent Orange wrote:It really makes me angry watching John lynch own it so far in San Fran. They aren't winning games yet but in a year or two they will be making the playoffs. We are going to blow up the team and start over once again. Gotta hand it to the 49ers for picking Lynch out of nowhere and giving him a long contract and the power to rebuild that team. They are going to be fun to watch soon.


Own it? His squad has the worst point differential in the NFL and hasn't won a game. Although, to be fair, five of their nine losses were by 3 points or less.

Still, don't crown him yet.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby IchabodCrane84 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:42 pm

Agent Orange wrote:It really makes me angry watching John lynch own it so far in San Fran. They aren't winning games yet but in a year or two they will be making the playoffs. We are going to blow up the team and start over once again. Gotta hand it to the 49ers for picking Lynch out of nowhere and giving him a long contract and the power to rebuild that team. They are going to be fun to watch soon.


As much as I love Lynch. You're crazy.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Caradoc » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:17 pm

Lol. Jury isn’t close to being in on Lynch yet.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:02 pm

IchabodCrane84 wrote:
Agent Orange wrote:It really makes me angry watching John lynch own it so far in San Fran. They aren't winning games yet but in a year or two they will be making the playoffs. We are going to blow up the team and start over once again. Gotta hand it to the 49ers for picking Lynch out of nowhere and giving him a long contract and the power to rebuild that team. They are going to be fun to watch soon.


As much as I love Lynch. You're crazy.


Right!! We all love #47, but how about we let him win a game before the compliments rain down.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby BacksidePursuit » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:07 pm

You don’t get a locker room back after you’ve lost it. I don’t like changing coaches every two years, but he’s lost the locker room. It’s over.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Agent Orange » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:18 pm

IchabodCrane84 wrote:
Agent Orange wrote:It really makes me angry watching John lynch own it so far in San Fran. They aren't winning games yet but in a year or two they will be making the playoffs. We are going to blow up the team and start over once again. Gotta hand it to the 49ers for picking Lynch out of nowhere and giving him a long contract and the power to rebuild that team. They are going to be fun to watch soon.


As much as I love Lynch. You're crazy.


He called the Pats and asked if he could trade for their backup knowing that he had been trying to get him all offseason. Once they said no he is off limits he calls back and asks if Tom Brady is available cause if their backup is off limits than what does that mean for Brady. That is the stuff of legends and he got his QB. When he starts succeeding and is a constant winner (which he will be) we will all be saying just another thing the Bucs did wrong and the reason we stink.

As sorry as I feel for us fans I can't even imagine being a former Super Bowl winning player. How embarrassed do they have to be at this point.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Doctor » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:21 am

BacksidePursuit wrote:You don’t get a locker room back after you’ve lost it. I don’t like changing coaches every two years, but he’s lost the locker room. It’s over.

That's the problem. Our locker room has become accustomed to this. Any HC we hire will lose the locker room after any slow start because the players will think "well, he's fired at the end of the year.... just like every other one". Players won't play for a coach they don't think will be there next year, good philosophy or not. The Glazers have set a standard for making lame duck coaches.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby DanTurksGhost » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:08 am

Doctor wrote:That's the problem. Our locker room has become accustomed to this. Any HC we hire will lose the locker room after any slow start because the players will think "well, he's fired at the end of the year.... just like every other one".


I have to respectfully disagree. Good leaders inspire confidence. I think what you say holds true if the HC is weak. The hallmark of strong leader is to have a vision and to be able to impart that vision downward to the rest of the organization. A great leader -- or even a really good one -- has the ability to keep the team with him through the rough times.

I personally think Coach Koetter is weak, and I think that has shown on game day and in his press conference this week.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Caradoc » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:36 am

Doctor wrote:
BacksidePursuit wrote:You don’t get a locker room back after you’ve lost it. I don’t like changing coaches every two years, but he’s lost the locker room. It’s over.

That's the problem. Our locker room has become accustomed to this. Any HC we hire will lose the locker room after any slow start because the players will think "well, he's fired at the end of the year.... just like every other one". Players won't play for a coach they don't think will be there next year, good philosophy or not. The Glazers have set a standard for making lame duck coaches.


BS. How many of the players who have lost faith with Koetter were here through those coaching changes? DJax? Ward, Ayers, Baker, Marpet, Jameis, Brate, Hump, Godwin, Kwon, Beckwith, Grimes, VH3, etc, etc.?

There are few players left from the Schiano regime. There are more from the Lovie regime, but not a whole lot who are more than role players.

The coaching changes have nothing to do with this. This isn't a case of a team that is on the brink but missing a few pieces that make the difference in close games. We aren't even competitive. We have too much talent for any coach to have an excuse for this performance.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby BCULAW » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:00 am

Caradoc wrote:
Doctor wrote:That's the problem. Our locker room has become accustomed to this. Any HC we hire will lose the locker room after any slow start because the players will think "well, he's fired at the end of the year.... just like every other one". Players won't play for a coach they don't think will be there next year, good philosophy or not. The Glazers have set a standard for making lame duck coaches.


BS. How many of the players who have lost faith with Koetter were here through those coaching changes? DJax? Ward, Ayers, Baker, Marpet, Jameis, Brate, Hump, Godwin, Kwon, Beckwith, Grimes, VH3, etc, etc.?

There are few players left from the Schiano regime. There are more from the Lovie regime, but not a whole lot who are more than role players.

The coaching changes have nothing to do with this. This isn't a case of a team that is on the brink but missing a few pieces that make the difference in close games. We aren't even competitive. We have too much talent for any coach to have an excuse for this performance.


I’d add that it seems likely that many of the players don’t distinguish between the “Koetter regime” and the “Lovie regime.” Not only was Koetter part of the Lovie regime, the schemes are effectively the same on both sides of the ball. I’m of he belief that, unless a coach is a reall ass (Schiano), coaches lose the locker room when players lose faith in the process. It’s not about “the coach” as much as what the coach is selling. I’d suggest that most of he players on this team like the men that coach them, but don’t like what the coaches are asking them to do. In this case, the coaches have been asking Ben to do the same things for 5 years now with very limited success.

My sense is that the players on defense want to go hunt (attacking, aggressive defense), but they’re being asked to stay home and protect (passive coverage, finesse line play, assignment football). On offense, if I’m being honest, I think JW’s inconsistent play has been holding the team back, and Koetter has not made adjustments to take the load off the QB. Bottom line is that I don’t think the players want to play under these circumstances anymore and their lack of belief shows up in their passion and effort.

The ONLY way for Koetter to regain the locker room is with dramatic change. Sit the team down. Open the lines of communication about why they feel things have gone bad. Figure out if the players’ concerns and needs are viable, and Incorporate the things the players would like to see happen IF they can be incorporated successfully. For example, at least a couple of players have gone on record as saying they don’t like the stunts on the d-line. They want to simply rush the passer. Well, the stunts aren’t working anyway, so let them rush the passer. The results can’t be worse, but the effort might be immensely improved. The only time I’ve seen it is in Carolina a couple of years back when Rivera decided to get more aggressive. Most coaches are too loyal to their “process” to do it, though.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Doctor » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:06 am

Caradoc wrote:
Doctor wrote:That's the problem. Our locker room has become accustomed to this. Any HC we hire will lose the locker room after any slow start because the players will think "well, he's fired at the end of the year.... just like every other one". Players won't play for a coach they don't think will be there next year, good philosophy or not. The Glazers have set a standard for making lame duck coaches.


BS. How many of the players who have lost faith with Koetter were here through those coaching changes? DJax? Ward, Ayers, Baker, Marpet, Jameis, Brate, Hump, Godwin, Kwon, Beckwith, Grimes, VH3, etc, etc.?

There are few players left from the Schiano regime. There are more from the Lovie regime, but not a whole lot who are more than role players.

The coaching changes have nothing to do with this. This isn't a case of a team that is on the brink but missing a few pieces that make the difference in close games. We aren't even competitive. We have too much talent for any coach to have an excuse for this performance.

It doesn't matter if the individual player was here for it or not. Ever hear of Five Monkeys and a Ladder?
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:07 am

Doctor wrote:
Caradoc wrote:
BS. How many of the players who have lost faith with Koetter were here through those coaching changes? DJax? Ward, Ayers, Baker, Marpet, Jameis, Brate, Hump, Godwin, Kwon, Beckwith, Grimes, VH3, etc, etc.?

There are few players left from the Schiano regime. There are more from the Lovie regime, but not a whole lot who are more than role players.

The coaching changes have nothing to do with this. This isn't a case of a team that is on the brink but missing a few pieces that make the difference in close games. We aren't even competitive. We have too much talent for any coach to have an excuse for this performance.

It doesn't matter if the individual player was here for it or not. Ever hear of Five Monkeys and a Ladder?


Oh **** we're getting deep now.

I will agree with what BCULAW is saying, the only way Koetter rights this ship if he brings things to an open forum, and let's the players air their grievances with the schemes/playcalling, and opens a 2-way communication ---- and then ACTUALLY responds

My issue has sort of been that I think that the players need to grow the **** up on this team - but by all means, let them bitch out loud, sort of cater to them to get them to buy back in, play to their strengths, then let an identity form, and let the players own their own mistakes that they make within schemes they are interested in playing. It's easy to push off responsibility when you feel like you're forced to do something you don't think puts you in a position to succeed. Let them play how they want, and when they fail, the responsibility has nowhere else to go
Last edited by beardmcdoug on Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby DanTurksGhost » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:08 am

BCULAW wrote:I’m of he belief that, unless a coach is a reall ass (Schiano), coaches lose the locker room when players lose faith in the process. It’s not about “the coach” as much as what the coach is selling. I’d suggest that most of he players on this team like the men that coach them, but don’t like what the coaches are asking them to do. In this case, the coaches have been asking Ben to do the same things for 5 years now with very limited success.


Coach Dungy and all of his assistants constantly re-stated the mantra "you have to trust the process". Over and over again. If a guy piped up that he's not understanding his role or he's not happy or that he feels like he's not playing the way he thinks he should play, they'd always, ALWAYS, say: "trust the process and we'll be successful". It was like a lockerroom mantra.

The thing is, people believed Coach Dungy. I don't think people believe Coach Koetter.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby beardmcdoug » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:13 am

DanTurksGhost wrote:
BCULAW wrote:I’m of he belief that, unless a coach is a reall ass (Schiano), coaches lose the locker room when players lose faith in the process. It’s not about “the coach” as much as what the coach is selling. I’d suggest that most of he players on this team like the men that coach them, but don’t like what the coaches are asking them to do. In this case, the coaches have been asking Ben to do the same things for 5 years now with very limited success.


Coach Dungy and all of his assistants constantly re-stated the mantra "you have to trust the process". Over and over again. If a guy piped up that he's not understanding his role or he's not happy or that he feels like he's not playing the way he thinks he should play, they'd always, ALWAYS, say: "trust the process and we'll be successful". It was like a lockerroom mantra.

The thing is, people believed Coach Dungy. I don't think people believe Coach Koetter.


But I also think Dungy and Koetter are cut from two different cloths.

Dungy is THE classic "calm and collected/conservative/nothing penetrates his persona" coach

Koetter is more of a straight shooter/outward realist. He was also a OC by trade, let very aggressive down-the-field attacking offenses and therefore puts out an "attack the other team" attitude. But for some reason that message has seemed to dissipate this year. We're playing scared and hesitant. It's not at all what Koetter has been putting forward the 2 years before this. It's weird
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