REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby deltbucs » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:53 pm

Jason Bourne wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:His pregame enthusiasm is all but a waste when you don't take care of business on the field with a win. if he pulls that personality out in the huddle its no wonder. Once he takes the field he should transform into an all about business, leader. His persona should demand excellence and perfection as he shows everyone else that's what he is all about.

Actually its more than a waste, it makes you a fraud and incapable of backing up what your wanting and turning it into bs.


Ray Lewis gave speeches sans eating Ws but he backed it up on the field .

And if you didn't like it, he'd kill you....and get away with it.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby MJW » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:53 am

To be honest, I kind of suspect the Ravens didn't enjoy Ray Lewis's schtick as much as the media did. It's also really easy to be a great leader when your unit is surrounded by the guys the Ravens had around him.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Caradoc » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:26 am

Jason Bourne wrote:I’d like to see Fitz speech Sunday with a bunch of multi syllabic words and composed delivery .


Racist!
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby beardmcdoug » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:23 am

Jason Bourne wrote:I’d like to see Fitz speech Sunday with a bunch of multi syllabic words and composed delivery .


Jason Bourne wrote:Ray Lewis gave speeches sans eating Ws but he backed it up on the field .


bro. you do know you don't have to put a space before punctuation symbols, right?
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Deuce » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:41 am

Ward speaking out, Baker speaking out, Jameis eating W's, Jameis poking players, and Evans blindsiding Lattimore

It's all frustration. You can see it on a lot of their faces. These guys expected to make the playoffs this year and they're bottom-of-the-barrel, again. Maybe they drank too much of the kool-aid due to the predictions and Hard Knocks but it's clear that this isn't what they expected. I honestly don't know who else to blame but Koetter, whether that's fair or not.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:56 am

Deuce wrote:Ward speaking out, Baker speaking out, Jameis eating W's, Jameis poking players, and Evans blindsiding Lattimore

It's all frustration. You can see it on a lot of their faces. These guys expected to make the playoffs this year and they're bottom-of-the-barrel, again. Maybe they drank too much of the kool-aid due to the predictions and Hard Knocks but it's clear that this isn't what they expected. I honestly don't know who else to blame but Koetter, whether that's fair or not.


Coaching certainly deserves blame. But how many years and regime changes are we as fans going to continue to scapegoat coaches?

We hired a young up and coming guy like Raheem who the players loved. Had some brief success before the wheels fell off and the players quit on him.

We then go and hire a disciplinarian to clean up the culture and the players play hard for a brief time before eventually quitting on the guy.

So then we go get a respected veteran NFL coach with ties to the franchises glory days. That never got going.

Finally we hire a long term NFL assistant the was about ready to get his first HC job (whether it was w/ the Bucs or somewhere else). I still think hiring Dirk was the right move.

But there is something amiss with the culture inside of OBP in that regardless of who we hire to be the HC the same thing happens 2-3 years later. So I don't know that continuing to blame the coaching is the right answer. At this point it borders on insanity to continue the same pattern of behavior.

At some point we have to look at something beyond the coaching. I feel that is just too easy of reaction and cycling through new regimes every 2 years obviously is not working. So I think there is some merit to the idea/thread that the Owners need to come out publicly at some point and send a message to the players on this team that Licht and Koetter aren't going anywhere and if this is going to turn around it's incumbent on the players to be better.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Deuce » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:25 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Deuce wrote:Ward speaking out, Baker speaking out, Jameis eating W's, Jameis poking players, and Evans blindsiding Lattimore

It's all frustration. You can see it on a lot of their faces. These guys expected to make the playoffs this year and they're bottom-of-the-barrel, again. Maybe they drank too much of the kool-aid due to the predictions and Hard Knocks but it's clear that this isn't what they expected. I honestly don't know who else to blame but Koetter, whether that's fair or not.


Coaching certainly deserves blame. But how many years and regime changes are we as fans going to continue to scapegoat coaches?

We hired a young up and coming guy like Raheem who the players loved. Had some brief success before the wheels fell off and the players quit on him.

We then go and hire a disciplinarian to clean up the culture and the players play hard for a brief time before eventually quitting on the guy.

So then we go get a respected veteran NFL coach with ties to the franchises glory days. That never got going.

Finally we hire a long term NFL assistant the was about ready to get his first HC job (whether it was w/ the Bucs or somewhere else). I still think hiring Dirk was the right move.

But there is something amiss with the culture inside of OBP in that regardless of who we hire to be the HC the same thing happens 2-3 years later. So I don't know that continuing to blame the coaching is the right answer. At this point it borders on insanity to continue the same pattern of behavior.

At some point we have to look at something beyond the coaching. I feel that is just too easy of reaction and cycling through new regimes every 2 years obviously is not working. So I think there is some merit to the idea/thread that the Owners need to come out publicly at some point and send a message to the players on this team that Licht and Koetter aren't going anywhere and if this is going to turn around it's incumbent on the players to be better.


I really think Doctor is on to something. Once we get off to a bad start, the players see the writing on the wall. They know Koetter is most likely gone so their effort in practice, the film room, and in some cases, the field goes downhill.

We have to get out of the "coach on the hot seat" discussion. Even before this season started, people said things like "Dirk Koetter will be on the hot seat in Tampa if they get off to a bad start." We have to stop that. Unfortunately, I feel like it may be too late for Koetter. We need to hire a strong leader and stick with him for like 5 years, no matter what. We probably could have done it with Schiano. I strongly believe that Licht should stick around.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby acmillis » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:50 am

Deuce wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Coaching certainly deserves blame. But how many years and regime changes are we as fans going to continue to scapegoat coaches?

We hired a young up and coming guy like Raheem who the players loved. Had some brief success before the wheels fell off and the players quit on him.

We then go and hire a disciplinarian to clean up the culture and the players play hard for a brief time before eventually quitting on the guy.

So then we go get a respected veteran NFL coach with ties to the franchises glory days. That never got going.

Finally we hire a long term NFL assistant the was about ready to get his first HC job (whether it was w/ the Bucs or somewhere else). I still think hiring Dirk was the right move.

But there is something amiss with the culture inside of OBP in that regardless of who we hire to be the HC the same thing happens 2-3 years later. So I don't know that continuing to blame the coaching is the right answer. At this point it borders on insanity to continue the same pattern of behavior.

At some point we have to look at something beyond the coaching. I feel that is just too easy of reaction and cycling through new regimes every 2 years obviously is not working. So I think there is some merit to the idea/thread that the Owners need to come out publicly at some point and send a message to the players on this team that Licht and Koetter aren't going anywhere and if this is going to turn around it's incumbent on the players to be better.


I really think Doctor is on to something. Once we get off to a bad start, the players see the writing on the wall. They know Koetter is most likely gone so their effort in practice, the film room, and in some cases, the field goes downhill.

We have to get out of the "coach on the hot seat" discussion. Even before this season started, people said things like "Dirk Koetter will be on the hot seat in Tampa if they get off to a bad start." We have to stop that. Unfortunately, I feel like it may be too late for Koetter. We need to hire a strong leader and stick with him for like 5 years, no matter what. We probably could have done it with Schiano. I strongly believe that Licht should stick around.


Care to explain why?
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Kress » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:50 am

DreadNaught wrote:
Deuce wrote:Ward speaking out, Baker speaking out, Jameis eating W's, Jameis poking players, and Evans blindsiding Lattimore

It's all frustration. You can see it on a lot of their faces. These guys expected to make the playoffs this year and they're bottom-of-the-barrel, again. Maybe they drank too much of the kool-aid due to the predictions and Hard Knocks but it's clear that this isn't what they expected. I honestly don't know who else to blame but Koetter, whether that's fair or not.


Coaching certainly deserves blame. But how many years and regime changes are we as fans going to continue to scapegoat coaches?

We hired a young up and coming guy like Raheem who the players loved. Had some brief success before the wheels fell off and the players quit on him.

We then go and hire a disciplinarian to clean up the culture and the players play hard for a brief time before eventually quitting on the guy.

So then we go get a respected veteran NFL coach with ties to the franchises glory days. That never got going.

Finally we hire a long term NFL assistant the was about ready to get his first HC job (whether it was w/ the Bucs or somewhere else). I still think hiring Dirk was the right move.

But there is something amiss with the culture inside of OBP in that regardless of who we hire to be the HC the same thing happens 2-3 years later. So I don't know that continuing to blame the coaching is the right answer. At this point it borders on insanity to continue the same pattern of behavior.

At some point we have to look at something beyond the coaching. I feel that is just too easy of reaction and cycling through new regimes every 2 years obviously is not working. So I think there is some merit to the idea/thread that the Owners need to come out publicly at some point and send a message to the players on this team that Licht and Koetter aren't going anywhere and if this is going to turn around it's incumbent on the players to be better.


Ugh. You really just contradicted the hell out of yourself. You had a good point going, after a long rant, and then **** the bed at the end.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:51 am

Former Ravens HC and NFLN talking head (also Mike Smith's brother-in-law) Brian Billick pretty much echoed Doctor's thread with comments made yesterday also. Basically saying (I'm paraphrasing) it's an institutional problem and if Ownership doesn't back the staff it creates a difficult dynamic for the staff to demand players perform. That if the Glazers publicly stated that Koetter was the guy in 2018 it would empower him to tell his players that he'll be here and it's up them to perform the second half of the season to show they want to be here also.

Look, I'm not saying that Koetter and/or Licht don't deserve blame or critique. The team is struggling and the HC and GM naturally will be pointed to based on title. The teams performance is obviously not up to standard so some fault lies with the staff. But it's also fair to look beyond the same old excuses/scapegoats given the pattern of this franchise the past decade.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:57 am

Kress wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
Coaching certainly deserves blame. But how many years and regime changes are we as fans going to continue to scapegoat coaches?

We hired a young up and coming guy like Raheem who the players loved. Had some brief success before the wheels fell off and the players quit on him.

We then go and hire a disciplinarian to clean up the culture and the players play hard for a brief time before eventually quitting on the guy.

So then we go get a respected veteran NFL coach with ties to the franchises glory days. That never got going.

Finally we hire a long term NFL assistant the was about ready to get his first HC job (whether it was w/ the Bucs or somewhere else). I still think hiring Dirk was the right move.

But there is something amiss with the culture inside of OBP in that regardless of who we hire to be the HC the same thing happens 2-3 years later. So I don't know that continuing to blame the coaching is the right answer. At this point it borders on insanity to continue the same pattern of behavior.

At some point we have to look at something beyond the coaching. I feel that is just too easy of reaction and cycling through new regimes every 2 years obviously is not working. So I think there is some merit to the idea/thread that the Owners need to come out publicly at some point and send a message to the players on this team that Licht and Koetter aren't going anywhere and if this is going to turn around it's incumbent on the players to be better.


Ugh. You really just contradicted the hell out of yourself. You had a good point going, after a long rant, and then **** the bed at the end.


Meh, I don't know what the answer/direction is. I just think it's more than a coaching problem and am not even 100% convinced it is a coaching problem right now. I'm not against changing coaches provided it's the right guy. But this changing coaches for the sake of change needs to stop, which is what I feel the mindset is right now with many fans and perhaps even the Owners.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Jason Bourne » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:20 am

beardmcdoug wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:I’d like to see Fitz speech Sunday with a bunch of multi syllabic words and composed delivery .


Jason Bourne wrote:Ray Lewis gave speeches sans eating Ws but he backed it up on the field .


bro. you do know you don't have to put a space before punctuation symbols, right?


Bro ,I know it really bothers you , but I am on my phone and doing whatever usually , so you will have to somehow find away to get the **** over , It .
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Jason Bourne » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:21 am

Caradoc wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:I’d like to see Fitz speech Sunday with a bunch of multi syllabic words and composed delivery .


Racist!


Lol
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Deuce » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:41 am

acmillis wrote:
Deuce wrote:
I really think Doctor is on to something. Once we get off to a bad start, the players see the writing on the wall. They know Koetter is most likely gone so their effort in practice, the film room, and in some cases, the field goes downhill.

We have to get out of the "coach on the hot seat" discussion. Even before this season started, people said things like "Dirk Koetter will be on the hot seat in Tampa if they get off to a bad start." We have to stop that. Unfortunately, I feel like it may be too late for Koetter. We need to hire a strong leader and stick with him for like 5 years, no matter what. We probably could have done it with Schiano. I strongly believe that Licht should stick around.


Care to explain why?


He's built a roster with a lot of talent. Evans, Winston, Alexander, Brate, and Marpet are all really good players. Howard, Justin Evans, Beckwith, Godwin, and Spence seem to have some potential. He signed talented free agents- Jackson, Ward, Grimes, Sweezy. Our two major holes are DB and DL. Most teams have holes here and there but I'm really not sure what else you want from a GM.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby mdb1958 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:44 am

Jason Bourne wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:


bro. you do know you don't have to put a space before punctuation symbols, right?


Bro ,I know it really bothers you , but I am on my phone and doing whatever usually , so you will have to somehow find away to get the **** over , It .



Truthfully, that even bothers me a little 8-)
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby beardmcdoug » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:45 am

Jason Bourne wrote:
beardmcdoug wrote:


bro. you do know you don't have to put a space before punctuation symbols, right?


Bro ,I know it really bothers you , but I am on my phone and doing whatever usually , so you will have to somehow find away to get the **** over , It .


lol I phone post all day long, a phone doesn't make you hit a space before you put a comma or period. you do it in literally every one of your posts. you legit made it to this point in your life without knowing that you didn't need a space BEFORE a punctuation point LOL
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby DanTurksGhost » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:48 am

You can't manufacture effective leadership. This team appears to be rudderless. That's on coaching.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby beardmcdoug » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:08 pm

DreadNaught wrote:Former Ravens HC and NFLN talking head (also Mike Smith's brother-in-law) Brian Billick pretty much echoed Doctor's thread with comments made yesterday also. Basically saying (I'm paraphrasing) it's an institutional problem and if Ownership doesn't back the staff it creates a difficult dynamic for the staff to demand players perform. That if the Glazers publicly stated that Koetter was the guy in 2018 it would empower him to tell his players that he'll be here and it's up them to perform the second half of the season to show they want to be here also.

Look, I'm not saying that Koetter and/or Licht don't deserve blame or critique. The team is struggling and the HC and GM naturally will be pointed to based on title. The teams performance is obviously not up to standard so some fault lies with the staff. But it's also fair to look beyond the same old excuses/scapegoats given the pattern of this franchise the past decade.


I agree. Just like you pointed out, we've tried every "type" of coach in the past 10 years. I think it would be good, especially for these bitch ass FA's we got to name DK the HC of 2018, and put an end to all this wishy washy bullshit
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:15 pm

DanTurksGhost wrote:You can't manufacture effective leadership. This team appears to be rudderless. That's on coaching.


So the Glazer's have hired 4 consecutive ineffective leaders as Head Coaches??
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Jason Bourne » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:17 pm

mdb1958 wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
Bro ,I know it really bothers you , but I am on my phone and doing whatever usually , so you will have to somehow find away to get the **** over , It .



Truthfully, that even bothers me a little 8-)


Lol
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby DanTurksGhost » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:39 pm

DreadNaught wrote:So the Glazer's have hired 4 consecutive ineffective leaders as Head Coaches??


More than likely, though Lovie Smith in a previous life was a pretty solid leader. I was internally skeptical of Koetter, but I didn't know enough about him to pass judgement prior to seeing him in the role. I was hoping my skepticism was misplaced, but when I see this team on the field they look like a completely undisciplined, unorganized group.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Super K » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:39 pm

mdb1958 wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
Bro ,I know it really bothers you , but I am on my phone and doing whatever usually , so you will have to somehow find away to get the **** over , It .



Truthfully, that even bothers me a little 8-)


Ha!
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Jason Bourne » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:37 pm

mdb1958 wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
Bro ,I know it really bothers you , but I am on my phone and doing whatever usually , so you will have to somehow find away to get the **** over , It .



Truthfully, that even bothers me a little 8-)


What’s funny is the wife is a lawyer now , but she used to be a reporter and columnist for a few newspapers , so my punctuation drives her crazy .
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Caradoc » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:56 pm

Deuce wrote:
acmillis wrote:
Care to explain why?


He's built a roster with a lot of talent. Evans, Winston, Alexander, Brate, and Marpet are all really good players. Howard, Justin Evans, Beckwith, Godwin, and Spence seem to have some potential. He signed talented free agents- Jackson, Ward, Grimes, Sweezy. Our two major holes are DB and DL. Most teams have holes here and there but I'm really not sure what else you want from a GM.


^^^This.

People are crapping on Licht for absolutely no reason. He has brought in more talent than Dom ever did, and certainly looks better than Allen too. Also he didn't hire either of the coaches he's had, those were both clearly Glazer decisions. People seem to think he should have filled every need on this team without understanding every team has holes. You also don't go through GMs like you do with coaches.

I honestly can't see how anyone can think he hasn't done a very good job other than the Aguayo thing, which was a big gamble that blew up on him, but nobody would talk about it if he had hit on that. Overall though, he's done as well as you can realistically ask as a GM.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Caradoc » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:02 pm

Deuce wrote:
We have to get out of the "coach on the hot seat" discussion. Even before this season started, people said things like "Dirk Koetter will be on the hot seat in Tampa if they get off to a bad start."


I'd like to see some evidence of that, as I don't recall anyone stating that kind of nonsense. Maybe some Packers beat writer or something?

Even two weeks ago pretty much nobody thought he was in danger for this year, that his seat was hot next year.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Caradoc » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:19 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Coaching certainly deserves blame. But how many years and regime changes are we as fans going to continue to scapegoat coaches?

We hired a young up and coming guy like Raheem who the players loved. Had some brief success before the wheels fell off and the players quit on him.

We then go and hire a disciplinarian to clean up the culture and the players play hard for a brief time before eventually quitting on the guy.

So then we go get a respected veteran NFL coach with ties to the franchises glory days. That never got going.

Finally we hire a long term NFL assistant the was about ready to get his first HC job (whether it was w/ the Bucs or somewhere else). I still think hiring Dirk was the right move.

But there is something amiss with the culture inside of OBP in that regardless of who we hire to be the HC the same thing happens 2-3 years later. So I don't know that continuing to blame the coaching is the right answer. At this point it borders on insanity to continue the same pattern of behavior.

At some point we have to look at something beyond the coaching. I feel that is just too easy of reaction and cycling through new regimes every 2 years obviously is not working. So I think there is some merit to the idea/thread that the Owners need to come out publicly at some point and send a message to the players on this team that Licht and Koetter aren't going anywhere and if this is going to turn around it's incumbent on the players to be better.


The recent coaching changes have been coincidental. Raheem never should have gotten the job he was too immature. His one successful year was incredible luck. The team obviously quit on him

Schiano was a reaction to that and despite what some fake former players insist, he didn't lose that locker room. Players may not have liked him, but they still played hard for him until the end. Schiano wasn't fired because of choice, he was fired because Freeman convinced a willing media to demonize him. After team Freeman was done with him the Glazers had no choice.

Lovie I suppose you could make an argument in hindsight that he should have had another year, but the reality was he was fielding the worst defense we had in about two decades and the team clearly quit on him.

If you want to try and blame a series of coaching changes for the quit you should look clearly at when the quitting started. It started with Raheem in his third year. That isn't a result of a "coaching carousel", the coaches before him were both here for years.

Even with Koetter now, the quitting came before the losing, and long before any thought of coaching changes.

If you want to ding the Glazers on this, it should be they need to be less involved in coaching hires. Let Licht handle the next one.
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Moozician » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:28 pm

beardmcdoug wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
So now Jameis isn't a leader? Lmao. I said it once I'll say it again: when a team is struggling the stupid really comes out in casuals.


A leader of men.



this is not how a leader of men acts. that's how a gimmicky leader of boys acts. I love him but dude needs to grow up fast


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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Kress » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:36 pm

Jason Bourne wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:

Truthfully, that even bothers me a little 8-)


What’s funny is the wife is a lawyer now , but she used to be a reporter and columnist for a few newspapers , so my punctuation drives her crazy .



In the legal world, it can get important really quickly. Ask her about serial commas. Example: I can say Bill, Tom, and Jeff. Or Bill, Tom and Jeff. Note the absence of the comma in the second one. By all grammatical texts, either one is proper.

But what if I have billions and want to will my estate to someone. I say that I want it to go in equal parts to Bill, Tom, and Jeff. That's a third, and a third, and a third, right? But what if I say that I want it to go in equal parts to Bill, Tom and Jeff. Is that now 50% to Bill, and 50% to Tom and Jeff collectively to split? Tom and Jeff were grouped together by the lack of a comma, whereas Bill was not.....
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:46 pm

What if I say that I helped my Uncle Jack off a horse today?
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Re: REPORT: Bucs brass involved in several private meetings

Postby Kress » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:47 pm

Depends. Was spooge involved?

Nevermind. You capitalized Jack.
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