Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

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Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby Alpha » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:45 am

Interesting conversation over the weekend (before the CAR game).

The older guys (50+ yrs. old) felt he was a "decent" QB...but not the franchise. The young guys felt he is.

It begged the question:

In a year...do we make Jameis the highest payed player in the league? I've asked this question before...and NOBODY had an answer. And it's likely we'll have to make him so to be a Buc...

Jesus...what a disappointing team...
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby .irishHITMAN4rent » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:56 am

Exactly what we needed....another Pointless Jameis thread :roll:
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby mdb1958 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:03 am

I told ya know it alls from the get go, the label franchise has to be earned. Should any team in the league make him the highest paid QB?

No.
Should Jameis expect being highest paid? No.

Should we keep him? Yes.

I have seen improvement from him this year even though ate up with dumbass is still hard wired into who he is. I wont be the one that says he cant limit and/or overcome his shortcomings. Hell even one day we may see 60 minutes of perfection.

My question is, this off season when he is practicing throwing the ball at a golf cart sprinting down the side line, should his pictured target be

A - a bullseye
B - a basketball hoop
C - a baseball homeplate
or
D - a picture of the piss hole grass behind mommas house
or
E - a distorted picture of DJ with arms five feet long - which most of the time he would still miss
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby UbuntuBuc » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:28 am

No, he is not a franchise QB.

Could he be; maybe. He has accuracy and dumbass moment issues that right now hold him back.

He also seems to have an overly rah, rah attitude which might start to wear on his teammates.
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby Nano » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:11 am

Not yet. As for paying him....he's not worth it. If he's really looking to be the highest payed QB(probably likely), then Goodbye Winston. Hopefully the next QB we draft has better accuracy.
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby acaton » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:17 am

He isn't showing any signs of being worth the "franchise" tag or money at the moment. For me I might offer him a mid to lower third QB money but nothing more. His deep ball is bad, very bad and that will hold him back let alone him starring down his primary receiver.
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby BucaRican » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:19 am

With all this said, and next years class being very deep at QB, would we grab one of those QBs in the second or 3rd?
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:39 am

Yes. He's a franchise QB who had a terrible game. I'll say it again none of this was brought up after the Buffalo game where most of you same people stated how we wasted his performance and the defense let us down. Now all of a sudden he's being compared to Deshaun Watson and people are talking about replacements. I said it once I'll say it again: THE MENTAL PSYCHE OF THIS FAN BASE IS WEAK. As durable wet cotton candy.
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby acaton » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:45 am

As always some are satisfied with less. Opinions vary.
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:47 am

acaton wrote:As always some are satisfied with less. Opinions vary.


Again, why wasn't this brought up after we loss to Buffalo? Or Arizona? or New England?
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby acaton » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:57 am

I don't have time to research it.
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby acmillis » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:59 am

"Franchise Quarterback" has different meanings to different people.

Is he a franchise QB to the Packers or Patriots? God no.

Is he a franchise QB to the BUCS...not even a question.
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:24 pm

acaton wrote:I don't have time to research it.


Good answer.
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby sonofg » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:54 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Yes. He's a franchise QB who had a terrible game. I'll say it again none of this was brought up after the Buffalo game where most of you same people stated how we wasted his performance and the defense let us down. Now all of a sudden he's being compared to Deshaun Watson and people are talking about replacements. I said it once I'll say it again: THE MENTAL PSYCHE OF THIS FAN BASE IS WEAK. As durable wet cotton candy.


Couldn't it just be that people didn't bother picking on his problems that week because other factors (like the defense) were worse? That doesn't mean he didn't make many of the same mistakes as other weeks.

In what was by many considered one of his best games ever, he lost a fumble (though I'm not sure how much that was on him...), had a bad interception, and should have had two more (the Jackson catch and an outright dropped INT). On both screen passes to Humphries he put the ball about 3 feet over his head so he had to jump and reach for it, which really negates the immediate nature of that play.
These are off the top of my head. I'm sure there were other examples of the issues some of us are getting increasingly tired of as well (mainly poor ball placement and decision making). So while he generated yards and TDs, to me that doesn't automatically equate to a great game.
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby sonofg » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:59 pm

UbuntuBuc wrote:No, he is not a franchise QB.

Could he be; maybe. He has accuracy and dumbass moment issues that right now hold him back.

He also seems to have an overly rah, rah attitude which might start to wear on his teammates.


Nano wrote:Not yet. As for paying him....he's not worth it. If he's really looking to be the highest payed QB(probably likely), then Goodbye Winston. Hopefully the next QB we draft has better accuracy.


This is pretty much where my mind is now as well, although I don't think he'll be gone anytime soon.
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby Moozician » Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:17 pm

You gotta define what a Franchise Quarterback is.

For Winston:

We fired a Head Coach, and advanced DK, because of his "Continuity" with Winston.
We traded up to draft a kicker in the second round, because Winston wanted him here.
We surrounded Winston with a great receiving corps, so he could showcase his passing ability.

Looking at all that's happened, I think that OBP considers Winston as their franchise.
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby DreadNaught » Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:21 pm

Winston won't have to worry about being the highest paid player in the NFL if he doesn't improve and this team doesn't make the playoffs. He'll get a new contract, but his market value won't permit him to be the highest paid. It'll still be north of $20m per season since this is the going rate for starting QBs. But he'll have to take the next step in addition to the team doing the same if he's going to be raising the bar for QB contracts.

People **** on Matt Stafford, but the guy has taken his team to the playoffs and thrown for 30+TDs and 5k yards multiple times. Winston needs to atleast get on that level.
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:37 pm

DreadNaught wrote:Winston won't have to worry about being the highest paid player in the NFL if he doesn't improve and this team doesn't make the playoffs. He'll get a new contract, but his market value won't permit him to be the highest paid. It'll still be north of $20m per season since this is the going rate for starting QBs. But he'll have to take the next step in addition to the team doing the same if he's going to be raising the bar for QB contracts.

People **** on Matt Stafford, but the guy has taken his team to the playoffs and thrown for 30+TDs and 5k yards multiple times. Winston needs to atleast get on that level.


He's already on the right track. Name me another QB in NFL history that has thrown for 4000 yards in their 1st 2 seasons...You can't. And he's well on his way to #3. I think the timing of all of this is indicative of how short-sighted people are.
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby Seamen » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:10 pm

People weren't critizing Winston after the Buffalo game because of how bad the defense was..Jameis had a terrible INT in that game he continues to show he isn't improving on his decision making..and his accuracy is seriously a whole other thread worth of discussion
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby mdb1958 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:25 pm

Winning is what matters.
Winning in the face of adversity - even more.
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby mdb1958 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:56 pm

I havnt gave up on him, but that doesnt mean I wouldnt ask him why he plays like a screw up at times. Then I would interrupt his answer and tell him that - that isnt getting it for me.
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby Bootz2004 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:03 pm

Seamen wrote:People weren't critizing Winston after the Buffalo game because of how bad the defense was..Jameis had a terrible INT in that game he continues to show he isn't improving on his decision making..and his accuracy is seriously a whole other thread worth of discussion


So basically people aren't bright enough to discuss more than 1 topic a week. Got it.
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby Sammich » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:17 pm

The honest answer to if Jameis is a 'franchise' QB or not is that it's too soon to tell. He's at a point that could go both ways. He flashes brilliance. He also brain farts way too often for his talent level. If I were the front office I would be glad I had a fifth year option.
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby sanka » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:25 pm

The karma of firing Lovie is coming back to haunt this franchise. After a 2-14 season, the Buccaneers improved to 6-10. Lovie Smith was fired as head coach because they didn't want a Falcons' reject Dirk Koetter to get hired as a head coach somewhere else. I said why does Dirk deserve this position? What has he accomplished as a career OC? As soon as he left the Falcons, Kyle Shanahan coached Ryan to an MVP season and the Falcons' made a major blunder that cost them their first SB. But this organization thinks Koetter is an HC material and Mike Smith a defensive guru after his bad defense he had in ATL. I asked what if Bucs do not improve under Koetter? They will blame the QB, and that is what is happening. Fans are saying do not fire a head coach too quickly blah blah, Lovie didn't get the same chance. At least they would have someone to blame after they fire Lovie. Where is Keith Tandy from last season, I was laughing during that 5 game winning streak that is just a fad of a defense and guess what happened again the fans and organization didn't want Mike Smith to leave to another team as HC and signed him to an extension. Winston has struggled no doubt, and if the Organization wants to let him go, that is fine, the Bucs will just go back to square one. Many teams will be happy to pay him and hopefully he gets a coach that gameplan to his strengths.
Winston has a bad game Acaton comes out of his hiding place to place blame, but, when he lights up the best passing defense he has nothing to say. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby Cheb » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:59 pm

Being a "franchise quarterback" isn't a yes or no state of being for the vast majority of NFL starters. The only guys I would say are undebatable Franchise Quarterbacks are those that everyone can agree on as being consistently one of the best quarterbacks in the league. Primarily that is Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, in my opinion. Drew Brees may be in that boat too, he was there a long time but is starting to decline.

There there's that second tier of guys, who are making tons of money and offer stability to their franchises, sometimes even have great years, but they aren't consistently the best. Eli, Big Ben, Stafford, Flacco, Matt Ryan, Cam, Rivers, Russell Wilson, pick your favorite, there's a ton of them. Are they franchise guys? Certainly, they are the faces of their franchises, and they have won many games for their teams, but do any of them deserve to make the most money in the league? You could argue against any of them.

Winston is maybe in that second group, but it's a huge maybe. He's still young. It remains to be seen.

I like Winston. I feel that his heart is in the right place. He's a hard worker, a great leader, and I love his attitude. He's not perfect, often glaringly so. While I feel that while he bears a large portion of responsibility for his continuing struggles on the field, I also feel that many of his issues could be improved with a more quarterback friendly offense that caters to his strengths.

Now, when his rookie contract is up, if he asks to make the most money in the league, do I pay the man? I don't know at this juncture. I'd have to see how he plays out the rest of his contract.

He isn't a Franchise Quarterback, but I think he's great for our franchise, and can cement himself in that second group.

Does that make sense?
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby Alpha » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:27 pm

Cheb wrote:Being a "franchise quarterback" isn't a yes or no state of being for the vast majority of NFL starters. The only guys I would say are undebatable Franchise Quarterbacks are those that everyone can agree on as being consistently one of the best quarterbacks in the league. Primarily that is Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, in my opinion. Drew Brees may be in that boat too, he was there a long time but is starting to decline.

There there's that second tier of guys, who are making tons of money and offer stability to their franchises, sometimes even have great years, but they aren't consistently the best. Eli, Big Ben, Stafford, Flacco, Matt Ryan, Cam, Rivers, Russell Wilson, pick your favorite, there's a ton of them. Are they franchise guys? Certainly, they are the faces of their franchises, and they have won many games for their teams, but do any of them deserve to make the most money in the league? You could argue against any of them.

Winston is maybe in that second group, but it's a huge maybe. He's still young. It remains to be seen.

I like Winston. I feel that his heart is in the right place. He's a hard worker, a great leader, and I love his attitude. He's not perfect, often glaringly so. While I feel that while he bears a large portion of responsibility for his continuing struggles on the field, I also feel that many of his issues could be improved with a more quarterback friendly offense that caters to his strengths.

Now, when his rookie contract is up, if he asks to make the most money in the league, do I pay the man? I don't know at this juncture. I'd have to see how he plays out the rest of his contract.

He isn't a Franchise Quarterback, but I think he's great for our franchise, and can cement himself in that second group.

Does that make sense?



Thank you for understanding the question.

This isn't about "WHAT is a franchise QB".

The FACT is...in a year or so, IF we decide to re-sign him, he IS gonna be the top earning QB in this league. That's just the nature of the position (and the league).

As I stated earlier...IF he is say...a top 15 QB...is he worth paying that kind of money to or do we look elsewhere?

I agree with Cheb. LOVE his leadership. He has flaws. He'll never be a Brady or a Rodgers. That ship has sailed.

I'll say this...I like him better than Cam. I do think he can be in that 2nd "tier". Hell...I would put him in that 2nd tier right now.

I'd pay the man. Not sure he'd be entirely worth it....but I like the fact that he'd be the face of this franchise.

We've done worse.
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby sanka » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:53 pm

The real question is how many franchise QBs has this franchise have? You want to claim Doug Williams after paying him the lowest salary of any starting QB earlier in his time after taking the Bucs to the NFC championship game? Then he went on to win the SB under a great man and coach in Joe Gibbs. Then the Bucs retired his Jersey to save face lol.

**** yes Jameis is franchise QB ....He is the 2nd youngest QB in the league and he is 7 games into his 3rd year in his career.... probably break this sorry ass franchise QB record if they don't run him out of town like Doug Williams.

Get him a good coach.
Last edited by sanka on Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby MJW » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:08 pm

sanka wrote:The real question is how many franchise QBs has this franchise have? You want to claim Doug Williams after paying him the lowest salary of any starting QB earlier in his time after taking the Bucs to the NFC championship game? Then he went on to win the SB under a great man and coach in Joe Gibbs. Then the Bucs retired his Jersey to save face lol.

**** yes Jameis is franchise QB ....He is the 2nd youngest QB in the league and he is 7 games into his career.... probably break this sorry ass franchise QB record if they don't run him out of town like Doug Williams.

Get him a good coach.


None of that bullshit you just said matters.

Neither does qualifying someone as a "franchise quarterback," whatever that is.

The only relevant question is, "Can he lead you to a Superbowl title going forward?" And barring that, it becomes, "Can he do enough to win a title if he's on a championship caliber team?"

Those are the relevant questions.
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby sanka » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:26 pm

MJW wrote:
sanka wrote:The real question is how many franchise QBs has this franchise have? You want to claim Doug Williams after paying him the lowest salary of any starting QB earlier in his time after taking the Bucs to the NFC championship game? Then he went on to win the SB under a great man and coach in Joe Gibbs. Then the Bucs retired his Jersey to save face lol.

**** yes Jameis is franchise QB ....He is the 2nd youngest QB in the league and he is 7 games into his career.... probably break this sorry ass franchise QB record if they don't run him out of town like Doug Williams.

Get him a good coach.


None of that bullshit you just said matters.

Neither does qualifying someone as a "franchise quarterback," whatever that is.

The only relevant question is, "Can he lead you to a Superbowl title going forward?" And barring that, it becomes, "Can he do enough to win a title if he's on a championship caliber team?"

Those are the relevant questions.


True...
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Re: Is Jameis a FRANCHISE QB?

Postby acmillis » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:56 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Winston won't have to worry about being the highest paid player in the NFL if he doesn't improve and this team doesn't make the playoffs. He'll get a new contract, but his market value won't permit him to be the highest paid. It'll still be north of $20m per season since this is the going rate for starting QBs. But he'll have to take the next step in addition to the team doing the same if he's going to be raising the bar for QB contracts.

People **** on Matt Stafford, but the guy has taken his team to the playoffs and thrown for 30+TDs and 5k yards multiple times. Winston needs to atleast get on that level.


He's already on the right track. Name me another QB in NFL history that has thrown for 4000 yards in their 1st 2 seasons...You can't. And he's well on his way to #3. I think the timing of all of this is indicative of how short-sighted people are.

So because of this he should (one of) the highest paid player in the league?

Name me a QB who won 15 games in their 1st two seasons should be the argument...but then again, in recent memory, there is Luck, Wilson, Wentz, Prescott, Bridgewater, Tannehill, and plenty more if you go back a couple more years.

Would you consider Ryan Tannehill a franchise QB? That is the closest, most recent comparison to Winston's wins/stats...and I sure as hell don't think Tannehill is a franchise QB, even before the injury issues.

However, Winston is a franchise QB to this franchise because he's the best (unfortunately) we've ever had.
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