Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

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Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby tjax03 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:13 pm

Watson is what Jameis was supposed to be.

A game changer, playmaker ability to alter a game by himself.

Watson has two studs at wr and is just destroying.

Jameis has two studs at wr, good te's and a stud running back and is pedestrian,mediocre.
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby uscbucsfan » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:18 pm

tjax03 wrote:Watson is what Jameis was supposed to be.

A game changer, playmaker ability to alter a game by himself.

Watson has two studs at wr and is just destroying.

Jameis has two studs at wr, good te's and a stud running back and is pedestrian,mediocre.


They are nothing alike. Winston isn't the same type of player. Give Watson 2-3 years and see if he's still producing. Running QBs have a history of hitting a wall. Not saying he will, but it's too early to tell.
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby tjax03 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:23 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
tjax03 wrote:Watson is what Jameis was supposed to be.

A game changer, playmaker ability to alter a game by himself.

Watson has two studs at wr and is just destroying.

Jameis has two studs at wr, good te's and a stud running back and is pedestrian,mediocre.


They are nothing alike. Winston isn't the same type of player. Give Watson 2-3 years and see if he's still producing. Running QBs have a history of hitting a wall. Not saying he will, but it's too early to tell.



Except Watson isnt a running qb.

He is a shotgun pocket qb.

Texans coach to his strengths
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby uscbucsfan » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:30 pm

tjax03 wrote:
uscbucsfan wrote:
They are nothing alike. Winston isn't the same type of player. Give Watson 2-3 years and see if he's still producing. Running QBs have a history of hitting a wall. Not saying he will, but it's too early to tell.



Expect Watson isnt a running qb.

He is a shotgun pocket qb.

Texans coach to his strengths


Most of his throws are out of the pocket. He runs to buy time and make plays, he also rushes around 7 times a game for around 30 yards. In a 16 game season that would be 112 rushes. RGIII had 120, Cam's most was 132. He's in that ball park. He's been running more than Dak. A lot of times these QBs hit a wall once they start relying less on their legs/contained more. I'm just saying give it time.
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:49 pm

We don't need to compare Jameis to every other young QB in the league. Mariota I understand but this is just too much.
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby Agent Orange » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:23 pm

I was watching that game and thinking the exact same thing. That is what we thought we were getting in Jameis. Made me mad just watching it.
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby Super K » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:39 pm

Agent Orange wrote:I was watching that game and thinking the exact same thing. That is what we thought we were getting in Jameis. Made me mad just watching it.


I don't disagree, I really don't but:

#1 what Miller said

#2 have you seen how creative that Houston offense is? Another poster mentioned something above "coaches to his (Watson) strengths"

An example from a different game/team.. look how Pburgh opened their game tonight..they LOVE to run that smokescreen to AB..but tonight they used him as a decoy and sent one of the "blockers" on a streak..30 yard gain

Why haven't we tried that? Everyone knows when Humph is outside the screen is coming..

Now, whether or not JW could complete the pass, that's another thread..
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby Caradoc » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:56 pm

Miller4Prez64 wrote:We don't need to compare Jameis to every other young QB in the league. Mariota I understand but this is just too much.



Meh, it's fair to wonder why these other guys who weren't as highly touted as Winston are doing better.
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby Agent Orange » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:13 pm

Super K wrote:
Agent Orange wrote:I was watching that game and thinking the exact same thing. That is what we thought we were getting in Jameis. Made me mad just watching it.


I don't disagree, I really don't but:

#1 what Miller said

#2 have you seen how creative that Houston offense is? Another poster mentioned something above "coaches to his (Watson) strengths"

An example from a different game/team.. look how Pburgh opened their game tonight..they LOVE to run that smokescreen to AB..but tonight they used him as a decoy and sent one of the "blockers" on a streak..30 yard gain

Why haven't we tried that? Everyone knows when Humph is outside the screen is coming..

Now, whether or not JW could complete the pass, that's another thread..


Winston cannot make or is not making the throws that Watson is. Watson is accurate and throws a great deep ball.

There are plenty of open receivers running free in our offense. Plenty! Winston just doesn’t make the reads or the throws. That and that alone is why Winston is getting grief from the fans and the press.
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby Kress » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:20 pm

Why give it time? You want to win 5 years from now? Right about the time that the guy is up for free agency?
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby Heisenberg » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:29 pm

They also have good playcalling and don't telegraph every play
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby Bootz2004 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:43 pm

LMAO! Anyone making this comparison has a weak mental psyche. I'm not ready to give up on our 23 year old QB yet. No matter how maddening his play is at times.
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby Mex-Buc » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:07 am

Winston is one of the best passers when throwing out of the pocket, do you know how many plays does Koetter design for him? Yeah, 0..

There's no creativity on this offense, same shitty screens always, basic WR Routes (Even Primetime said this on TNF)..
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby Doctor » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:00 am

Our QB can't master timing routes from the basic route tree and people here want more creative and complex plays. Lol

Is this the fan equivalent of "my child only gets poor grades because he's too smart for this class".
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby BucaRican » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:28 am

Mex-Buc wrote:Winston is one of the best passers when throwing out of the pocket to the other team, do you know how many plays does Koetter design for him? Yeah, 0..

There's no creativity on this offense, same shitty screens always, basic WR Routes (Even Primetime said this on TNF)..



fixed
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby MJW » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:09 am

Bootz2004 wrote:LMAO! Anyone making this comparison has a weak mental psyche. I'm not ready to give up on our 23 year old QB yet. No matter how maddening his play is at times.


Watson was better at reading the field in his 7th start yesterday than Winston was in his 39th. I don't consider that observation controversial. And it's a problem. If you're not wondering about our ceiling with Winston by now, that's your decision, but I don't share it. I think he's another Matt Stafford and he's going to put up big numbers and win some games, but he's 2nd tier because he can't consistently make his teammates better. Because he's in Tampa, we're still pretty happy with this, because it's Tampa.
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby Nano » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:16 am

Stafford? He's closer to Blake Bottles with better mechanics
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby Doctor » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:26 am

I'm sorry, is Stafford a bad QB now? Can a team not win a SB with Stafford? If he ends up being Stafford, I'm happy. Let me know how it's going at the HOF QB giveaway you seen to be invited to.
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:49 am

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:LMAO! Anyone making this comparison has a weak mental psyche. I'm not ready to give up on our 23 year old QB yet. No matter how maddening his play is at times.


Watson was better at reading the field in his 7th start yesterday than Winston was in his 39th. I don't consider that observation controversial. And it's a problem. If you're not wondering about our ceiling with Winston by now, that's your decision, but I don't share it. I think he's another Matt Stafford and he's going to put up big numbers and win some games, but he's 2nd tier because he can't consistently make his teammates better. Because he's in Tampa, we're still pretty happy with this, because it's Tampa.


Funny you had none of these worries last Monday.
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby MJW » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:01 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:
Watson was better at reading the field in his 7th start yesterday than Winston was in his 39th. I don't consider that observation controversial. And it's a problem. If you're not wondering about our ceiling with Winston by now, that's your decision, but I don't share it. I think he's another Matt Stafford and he's going to put up big numbers and win some games, but he's 2nd tier because he can't consistently make his teammates better. Because he's in Tampa, we're still pretty happy with this, because it's Tampa.


Funny you had none of these worries last Monday.
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby DanTurksGhost » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:03 pm

Watson can hit the deep ball. I got home and watched him sling a 59-yard TD pass right on the spot.
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby MJW » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:06 pm

DanTurksGhost wrote:Watson can hit the deep ball. I got home and watched him sling a 59-yard TD pass right on the spot.


We've been waiting 3 years now for Winston to hit that pass. If he could do so, we would be 5-2 right now. We've had open (or "NFL Open") receivers deep every game this season. The Patriots, Bills, and Panthers games all could have been won if he could hit them even SOME of the time.
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:09 pm

MJW wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
Funny you had none of these worries last Monday.


And again, you said none of this last week.
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby MJW » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:19 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
MJW wrote:


And again, you said none of this last week.


Why would I blast him after a great game?

Think about the bold, italicized, underlined, red word in the above post. That's the issue. Last week Winston was lights out. This week he was hot garbage. Until the red word is mastered, he's not a franchise quarterback. That doesn't mean he won't have great games, like he had in Buffalo. That means as long as he has games like he did yesterday, he's second tier at best.
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby DanTurksGhost » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:32 pm

MJW wrote:Why would I blast him after a great game?


I got criticized for pointing out his errors after last week's game. Having a really good game, which he did, doesn't mean he doesn't have room to improve or is immune to criticism. He didn't lose the game last week, clearly that was on the defense.
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby MJW » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:37 pm

DanTurksGhost wrote:
MJW wrote:Why would I blast him after a great game?


I got criticized for pointing out his errors after last week's game. Having a really good game, which he did, doesn't mean he doesn't have room to improve or is immune to criticism. He didn't lose the game last week, clearly that was on the defense.


I agree, but Bootz is just trying to make some asinine point about casual fans. Every good game contains room for improvement. Apparently if we don't bury everyone every week, we can't be critical when they flat-out suck. Bootz is more concerned about Buccaneers fans than he is Buccaneers.
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby Sammich » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:40 am

Miller4Prez64 wrote:We don't need to compare Jameis to every other young QB in the league. Mariota I understand but this is just too much.



Comparing someone to their peers is the fairest way to do it. Watson also has similar talent around him as compared to Winston- likely less. I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask why our 3rd year QB is getting smoked by a rookie.
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby sonofg » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:04 pm

Sammich wrote:
Miller4Prez64 wrote:We don't need to compare Jameis to every other young QB in the league. Mariota I understand but this is just too much.



Comparing someone to their peers is the fairest way to do it. Watson also has similar talent around him as compared to Winston- likely less. I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask why our 3rd year QB is getting smoked by a rookie.


This. It's perfectly reasonable to compare Winston to other young QBs. I don't get why he should be exempt. Because it makes him look bad?
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby Miller4Prez64 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:16 pm

sonofg wrote:
Sammich wrote:

Comparing someone to their peers is the fairest way to do it. Watson also has similar talent around him as compared to Winston- likely less. I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask why our 3rd year QB is getting smoked by a rookie.


This. It's perfectly reasonable to compare Winston to other young QBs. I don't get why he should be exempt. Because it makes him look bad?


No, because there is no point. It's not like this team had the option of having Watson instead of Winston. Unless you really love just comparing random QBs, there is no real substance to the discussion and it just comes off as more whining about our 23 year old QB coming off the worst game of his career.
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Re: Deshaun Watson vs Jameis Winston

Postby sonofg » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:46 pm

Miller4Prez64 wrote:
sonofg wrote:
This. It's perfectly reasonable to compare Winston to other young QBs. I don't get why he should be exempt. Because it makes him look bad?


No, because there is no point. It's not like this team had the option of having Watson instead of Winston. Unless you really love just comparing random QBs, there is no real substance to the discussion and it just comes off as more whining about our 23 year old QB coming off the worst game of his career.


I get your point with regard to Winston vs. specific QB, but I disagree in general. I think the point is in discussing Winstons development and what should be expected. Following your point of view here, there is no point in discussing his accomplishments either (e.g., fastest QB to whatever statistic)
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