Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:43 pm

deltbucs wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Without a pass rush or consistent running game this team is going nowhere.

I get the complaints about coaching and game management, but the play-calling is not the close to our biggest issue. We didn't record a single QB hit yesterday, much less a QB sack (which we are dead last in the NFL in). That is NOT a coaching problem, that is a player problem and it must be addressed with better talent.

Warren Sapp disagrees and I think he's got a valid point.


SMH... I DGAF who the coaches are and what the scheme is. ZERO QB hits in an NFL game when the opposing QB is one of most sacked QBs in football is inexcusable. BTW, the Bucs are DEAD last in sacks this season.

But I'm sure a new DC and Dline coach would change all that, amirite? Mike Smith and Jay Hayes are obviously not good football coaches and that is why our awesome Dline isn't performing.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby deltbucs » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:45 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
deltbucs wrote:Warren Sapp disagrees and I think he's got a valid point.


SMH... I DGAF who the coaches are and what the scheme is. ZERO QB hits in an NFL game when the opposing QB is one of most sacked QBs in football is inexcusable. BTW, the Bucs are DEAD last in sacks this season.

But I'm sure a new DC and Dline coach would change all that, amirite? Mike Smith and Jay Hayes are obviously not good football coaches and that is why our awesome Dline isn't performing.

I never said they were awesome, but you can't tell me that they are so bad that they can't hit the QB and no scheme change would help. I don't think it would be a bad idea to try to get McCoy some 1-on-1's.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:45 pm

I think we got one more year to get him the help that will make this thing work, if not we can try and get a 3rd rounder for him. 6 outta 10 ten times he can play some of his best ball and we'd still lose.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:10 pm

deltbucs wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
SMH... I DGAF who the coaches are and what the scheme is. ZERO QB hits in an NFL game when the opposing QB is one of most sacked QBs in football is inexcusable. BTW, the Bucs are DEAD last in sacks this season.

But I'm sure a new DC and Dline coach would change all that, amirite? Mike Smith and Jay Hayes are obviously not good football coaches and that is why our awesome Dline isn't performing.

I never said they were awesome, but you can't tell me that they are so bad that they can't hit the QB and no scheme change would help. I don't think it would be a bad idea to try to get McCoy some 1-on-1's.


I agree getting McCoy some 1v1 would be a good thing, but when NO other person on the Dline is demanding attention teams will just have their Center double team McCoy w/ the Guard.

At some point our Dlinemen have to win more of the 1v1 match-ups throughout the game is all I'm saying. Carolina didn't blitz a ton yesterday and guys like Mario Addison were constantly getting to Jameis. A good pass rush gets it done w/ the front 4, an even better pass rush can do it w/out all the twisting and stunting our Dline does. I can agree that coaching plays a part, but outside of McCoy our guys just aren't getting the job done and are getting blocked too easily.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby deltbucs » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:27 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
deltbucs wrote:I never said they were awesome, but you can't tell me that they are so bad that they can't hit the QB and no scheme change would help. I don't think it would be a bad idea to try to get McCoy some 1-on-1's.


I agree getting McCoy some 1v1 would be a good thing, but when NO other person on the Dline is demanding attention teams will just have their Center double team McCoy w/ the Guard.

At some point our Dlinemen have to win more of the 1v1 match-ups throughout the game is all I'm saying. Carolina didn't blitz a ton yesterday and guys like Mario Addison were constantly getting to Jameis. A good pass rush gets it done w/ the front 4, an even better pass rush can do it w/out all the twisting and stunting our Dline does. I can agree that coaching plays a part, but outside of McCoy our guys just aren't getting the job done and are getting blocked too easily.

In my original reply to you I added a link to an article with Sapp's comments. I went back and added it before you replied, I think. There are ways to get more favorable matchups for McCoy. For instance, keep a nose in the game at like a 1 tech...or even 0 tech. It's going to be tough for the center to commit to McCoy if the other guard is supposed to get to the nose and take him 1v1.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:29 pm

List of players who have more individual QB sacks than the entire BUCS team!!

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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby Bootz2004 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:48 pm

Not that we ever had a chance at him but I remember the geniuses arguing with me about whether Joey Bosa would fit this defense or if he'd be effective as an edge rusher in the NFL.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby real bucs fan » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:19 pm

Bosa was #1 on my list.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby deltbucs » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:19 pm

DreadNaught wrote:List of players who have more individual QB sacks than the entire BUCS team!!

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And Peppers is like 40 years old!
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby .irishHITMAN4rent » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:00 pm

Buccs play sheet

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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby acmillis » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:13 pm

.irishHITMAN4rent wrote:Buccs play sheet

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Don't forget the route that calls for DJAX to just stand parallel with the LOS, wait for Winston to check it down to him and run straight for a gain of 5.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:29 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Not that we ever had a chance at him but I remember the geniuses arguing with me about whether Joey Bosa would fit this defense or if he'd be effective as an edge rusher in the NFL.

There is 3 1st rounders, a 2nd, a 3rd, and a 6th rounder on that defensive line.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby uscbucsfan » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:35 pm

mdb1958 wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Not that we ever had a chance at him but I remember the geniuses arguing with me about whether Joey Bosa would fit this defense or if he'd be effective as an edge rusher in the NFL.

There is 3 1st rounders, a 2nd, a 3rd, and a 6th rounder on that defensive line.


And they are 3-5.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:24 pm

uscbucsfan wrote:
mdb1958 wrote: There is 3 1st rounders, a 2nd, a 3rd, and a 6th rounder on that defensive line.


And they are 3-5.


I think you should be addressing Bootz.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:30 pm

But in all fairness to Bootz, their DE's have 25 sacks.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby Jason Bourne » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:35 pm

DreadNaught wrote:List of players who have more individual QB sacks than the entire BUCS team!!

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I think Lawrence is FA after this season , and we have to draft Bradley Chubb
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:30 pm

Jason Bourne wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:List of players who have more individual QB sacks than the entire BUCS team!!

Image


I think Lawrence is FA after this season , and we have to draft Bradley Chubb

I don't like the name, Lawrence. Only faggots and sailors are called Lawrence.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby Caradoc » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:52 pm

Let's be honest here, we're a losing team because of Smith's defense, not Koetter's offense. That said, even if we fix the D, we will never be a contender with Dirk's offense unless we have an elite D. We also need to acknowledge something is wrong with Winston.

On offense it is all coaching. We have talented players at pretty much every position, elite or close to elite ones at a couple. Playcalling and personnel usage is the biggest problem there. Winston is the second. Options on offense are, have someone else call plays, bench winston, fire Koetter, fire Bajakian. Winston isn't getting benched. Koetter isn't getting fired, neither is Bajakian this season. Playcalling is the only thing we can really change this season.

On defense is is mostly coaching. The scheme is horribly passive and it seems no attempt is made to play to players strength. It's like they don't even know what their players can do. Ryan Smith positional ping pong. Justin Evans riding the bench, but immediately showing he deserves to play when forced into action. Conte getting playing time over Ward. VH3, playing poorly last year and horribly this year in that off off man, yet when changed to playing tighter and more press man he has his best game so far.

Offseason moves to consider:

Firing Mike Smith. He fooled us last year with that spurt of games with turnovers but outside of that has been garbage. (Doubt this happens as if anyone has talent as an excuse he does, but he still has too much to put up this crap.) But if it doesn't I don't think talent will make much difference.
Draft/offseason needs DE, DE, CB. I'd also consider a guard if we can't upgrade from Pamphile internally. Guy is the weak link on the OL. There's a reason he platoons. Rest of OL is a solid group that will look a lot better with better playcalling.
Force Koetter to give up playcalling. This should be a must if it isn't already done. Doubt he gets fired but he could.
Fire Bajakian. This will probably happen. Koetter and Bajakian have had 3 years with Winston and it doesn't look like they developed him at all. I expect Glazers demand change. This can also affect Glazers re: Koetter - it's not like he had just 2 years with Jameis.

Everyone talks about stability. What indications are there that if we keep on this course next year will be better?
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby Super K » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:21 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
I think Lawrence is FA after this season , and we have to draft Bradley Chubb

I don't like the name, Lawrence. Only faggots and sailors are called Lawrence.


Ha!
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby Jason Bourne » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:00 pm

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
I think Lawrence is FA after this season , and we have to draft Bradley Chubb

I don't like the name, Lawrence. Only faggots and sailors are called Lawrence.


What’s wrong with sailors ?
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:16 am

Jason Bourne wrote:
Mountaineer Buc wrote:I don't like the name, Lawrence. Only faggots and sailors are called Lawrence.


What’s wrong with sailors ?

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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby Buc2 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:05 am

Yeah...real men don't dance.

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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby DanTurksGhost » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:28 am

Caradoc wrote:Let's be honest here, we're a losing team because of Smith's defense, not Koetter's offense. That said, even if we fix the D, we will never be a contender with Dirk's offense unless we have an elite D. We also need to acknowledge something is wrong with Winston.


I agree with this assessment, almost completely. The defense has been terrible this year. Teams generally move the ball at will, and convert third downs with ease. The Panthers would have score another two TD"s if Newton had been able to hit the long ball a couple of times. Coach Koetter's offense is a mess. Terribly inconsistent, and a lot of that falls on the QB and the OL. Winston has great potential, but he's not making significant progress. He has a lot of what you want in a QB, but he's still playing like a rookie at times. Yes, he's young. Yes, he's setting records, which is good -- but it isn't translating into wins and post-season berths. He's still wildly inaccurate and he can't hit the long ball. An offense that has a strong emphasis on deep ball passing is useless if you can't hit that deep ball. This offense, as currently operating, cannot win without getting more chances from the defense. When we don't force turnovers, we don't get enough chances to overcome our own miscues.

The OL needs fixing, badly. The QB needs better coaching. The offense, is horribly predictable and called inconsistently. But more than anything else, the defense is a big problem that simply must be fixed. No pressure = no victory.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:11 am

Before the big 5 game win streak last year didn’t McCoy say the defense hated all the stunting and it limited the pass rush? After Mike Smith listened the pass rush and overall defense improved. Once again McCoy is saying the DL aid being asked to do too many stunts and that he isn’t free to just rush the QB.

How does Mike Smith make the same mistake two years in a row?
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:12 am

deltbucs wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Without a pass rush or consistent running game this team is going nowhere.

I get the complaints about coaching and game management, but the play-calling is not the close to our biggest issue. We didn't record a single QB hit yesterday, much less a QB sack (which we are dead last in the NFL in). That is NOT a coaching problem, that is a player problem and it must be addressed with better talent.

Warren Sapp disagrees and I think he's got a valid point.

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/martin-ch ... og/2342567


The link is broken.

Edit: Found Sapp’s quote...

If you have a lead dog and if it’s not GMC – that’s what I call Gerald, like a big wide-body GMC – you put the Volkswagens and all the rest of them around him and you allow him to work. You’ve got five one-on-ones and you designate Robert Ayers as the one with the one-and-ones? Gerald’s the better player. What are we doing here?

Wasting isn’t even the word. Gerald has more sacks since he came into the league than any other defensive tackle. Tell me why Robert Ayers, who’s a defensive end, now has the free reign to where he wants to go and you got to get out of his way?

Sapp praised McCoy’s on-field ability and off-field character, while questioning Tampa Bay’s defensive coaches for not setting up the former No. 3 overall pick to succeed:

To have that ‘Gerald’ game, he needs to be released, to be told that you are the man, you are the man that drives this, it starts up front. It’s frustrating to me because I know how good of a kid he is and how much he wants to help this football team. But for some reason, the D coordinator and the D line coach don’t feel that he’s that guy. For some reason, they haven’t set him up, they haven’t made him the lead dog.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby Mountaineer Buc » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:27 am

Buc2 wrote:Yeah...real men don't dance.

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Obviously Marines.


Army guys have better moves.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:43 am

PrimeMinister wrote:
deltbucs wrote:Warren Sapp disagrees and I think he's got a valid point.

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/martin-ch ... og/2342567


The link is broken.

Edit: Found Sapp’s quote...

If you have a lead dog and if it’s not GMC – that’s what I call Gerald, like a big wide-body GMC – you put the Volkswagens and all the rest of them around him and you allow him to work. You’ve got five one-on-ones and you designate Robert Ayers as the one with the one-and-ones? Gerald’s the better player. What are we doing here?

Wasting isn’t even the word. Gerald has more sacks since he came into the league than any other defensive tackle. Tell me why Robert Ayers, who’s a defensive end, now has the free reign to where he wants to go and you got to get out of his way?

Sapp praised McCoy’s on-field ability and off-field character, while questioning Tampa Bay’s defensive coaches for not setting up the former No. 3 overall pick to succeed:

To have that ‘Gerald’ game, he needs to be released, to be told that you are the man, you are the man that drives this, it starts up front. It’s frustrating to me because I know how good of a kid he is and how much he wants to help this football team. But for some reason, the D coordinator and the D line coach don’t feel that he’s that guy. For some reason, they haven’t set him up, they haven’t made him the lead dog.


We've kept McCoy at 3-tech his entire career so we can maximize his talents for our defense. Mike Smith has talked about this repeatedly when questioned by the media about a 3-4 or 3-3-5, his initial response is always how that doesn't help us get the most out of McCoy.

I agree w/ Sapp that McCoy is our best Dlinemen, but I think OBP agrees also so I disagree that we are not trying to put him in position to be successful. I'm sorry, but I can't see what Sapp is saying there when McCoy is lined up at 3-tech pretty much every snap.

The fact is McCoy will continue to get doubled by the Center and Guard to his side until others on the Dline start winning the 1v1s they get. It doesn't matter where we put McCoy he's going to get double teamed if we only rush 4. We can blitz the A gap to free up McCoy for a 1v1, or others can start winning 1v1s. Since the latter seems unlikely with current cast of characters I think the obvious answer to resolve our pass rush woes is to blitz more. Our 4 man rush just isn't good enough.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby deltbucs » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:11 am

DreadNaught wrote:
PrimeMinister wrote:
The link is broken.

Edit: Found Sapp’s quote...



We've kept McCoy at 3-tech his entire career so we can maximize his talents for our defense. Mike Smith has talked about this repeatedly when questioned by the media about a 3-4 or 3-3-5, his initial response is always how that doesn't help us get the most out of McCoy.

I agree w/ Sapp that McCoy is our best Dlinemen, but I think OBP agrees also so I disagree that we are not trying to put him in position to be successful. I'm sorry, but I can't see what Sapp is saying there when McCoy is lined up at 3-tech pretty much every snap.

The fact is McCoy will continue to get doubled by the Center and Guard to his side until others on the Dline start winning the 1v1s they get. It doesn't matter where we put McCoy he's going to get double teamed if we only rush 4. We can blitz the A gap to free up McCoy for a 1v1, or others can start winning 1v1s. Since the latter seems unlikely with current cast of characters I think the obvious answer to resolve our pass rush woes is to blitz more. Our 4 man rush just isn't good enough.

We CAN get McCoy one-on-one's if we try. We aren't really trying hard. A lot of time when we get the offense in 3rd and longs we'll but both DT's in the 3 tech. If we put the other DT at the 1 or 0, the center can't ignore him.
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby Super K » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:32 am

Dread, I see your point, but I also believe what Delt and Sapp are saying..

I think you do as well because even in your example of "blitzing a backer in the A gap" that's an example of scheming McCoy a 1 on 1...

To Sapp's point, we need to "plan" 6-8 plays a game that get McCoy a 1 on 1..whether that be via blitz, as you said, or adjusting the nose, as Delt offered..

We seem content with just having GMac just play..and that ain't working..
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Re: Rapid Reactions: Week 8 17-3 L vs Carolina

Postby Super K » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:28 am

Here's a thought I've been kicking around, so please feel free to tear it apart..

Why the hell don't we bump GMac out to DE on some obvious pass downs and bring in McDonald at the UT spot?

Clint has shown some decent, albeit sporadic, ability to cause some mayhem in the backfield..

Either GMac gets doubled leaving the DTs 1 on 1, or he gets a 1 on 1 vs a tackle..

Can't hurt to give it a whirl..
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