Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby Agent Orange » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:40 pm

Would anyone like to discuss Donovan Smith and his penalties and whiffed blocks in key situations? He is one of the few players that we have that just continues to make mistakes weekly.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby Alpha » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:17 am

Agent Orange wrote:Just about as frustrated as I ever have been with the Bucs. We have the talent. Sure there are the Comte’s and Hargreaves is not good. Overall though this team has more talent than we have had since the Super Bowl.



You people are delusional.

Just because we may have "more talent", doesn't mean we have "more talent" everywhere. At WR? TE? LB? DT? I'll grant you that...but ANYWHERE else? No.

Our secondary SUCKS. It did last year and it does now. And I DEFY you to show me where this alleged "talent" is paying off. When the opponent runs a 4 WR set and CHRIS CONTE is having to cover man/man? Hargreaves has proven to be a bust thus far...and yet he's our "2nd best" CB?

We do NOT have "talent" in our secondary. PERHAPS the Evans kid will pan out at safety. Other than that? We've got ****. Why do you suppose every team has torched our secondary this year? Mike Smith has been a damn good DC in this league for a long time. Did he suddenly forget how to coach? I highly doubt it.

Alpha wrote:This game was OVER after the first 3 Cardinal, offensive series'. The final score means nothing and is in NO WAY indicative of the outcome.

Myself...as well as other posters (not to mention Vegas) thought this team was an 8 win team (give or take). This still sounds about right.

Here is the single most disturbing thing from this entire game...from my perspective:

This defense looks like they do not understand what Mike Smith is trying to have them do. This is how they looked for (roughly) the first half of last year. The run D not withstanding (which was horrid), there were coverage breakdowns on nearly EVERY Cardinal offensive play. I'll re-watch to verify but most were BLATANT, even watching the game in real time.

If you'll remember, the BEARS were moving the ball on us fairly easily, until the turnovers came. They did and we were able to put the game away quickly. That doesn't mean that the Bears weren't moving, pretty much at will, on our defense, until they were forced to scrap their game plan.

The Vikings, Giants, Patriots and now the Cards have ALL moved up and down the field on this defense. I'm "sensing a trend" here...

As I (and I'm sure others as well) have been saying for MONTHS now...this defense is TALENT STARVED. Especially in the secondary. You can deny it all you like but opposing defensive co-ordinators clearly see this and are abusing this D. The lack of talent combined with the inability of the coaching staff AND players to get on the same page, is going to cost this team until it gets figured out.

I'm not as concerned about the offense and frankly, they don't matter right now because our defense is a very real problem. And has been from game 1.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby Rocker » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:35 am

I strongly agree with your points about a lack of talent in the secondary, Alpha.

What troubles me more is the severe lack of talent on our D line. McCoy is an amazing player; but he's only 25% of that unit; which has performed abysmally to this point. Anyone with sense knows that the game is won and lost in the trenches; and boy does ours need help. BADLY.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby BayAreaBucFan25 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:43 am

Rocker wrote:I strongly agree with your points about a lack of talent in the secondary, Alpha.

What troubles me more is the severe lack of talent on our D line. McCoy is an amazing player; but he's only 25% of that unit; which has performed abysmally to this point. Anyone with sense knows that the game is won and lost in the trenches; and boy does ours need help. BADLY.


This!! It has been 12 years since Simeon rice left and we have yet to find a Premier DE who can get 10-15 sacks a year. I still have hope for spence. But not targeting a Oliver Vernon or Calais Campbell who has 8 sacks by the way is hurting us very bad. I have seen nothing at all out of Hargreaves except for his once a game wave of the finger for a overthrown ball on which he was beat in the first place. Once again we need to target a DE and CB come march and April. I will say that our defense does play better with Kwon he is the heart and soul of you ask me.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby Rocker » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:54 am

BayAreaBucFan25 wrote:
Rocker wrote:I strongly agree with your points about a lack of talent in the secondary, Alpha.

What troubles me more is the severe lack of talent on our D line. McCoy is an amazing player; but he's only 25% of that unit; which has performed abysmally to this point. Anyone with sense knows that the game is won and lost in the trenches; and boy does ours need help. BADLY.


This!! It has been 12 years since Simeon rice left and we have yet to find a Premier DE who can get 10-15 sacks a year. I still have hope for spence. But not targeting a Oliver Vernon or Calais Campbell who has 8 sacks by the way is hurting us very bad. I have seen nothing at all out of Hargreaves except for his once a game wave of the finger for a overthrown ball on which he was beat in the first place. Once again we need to target a DE and CB come march and April. I will say that our defense does play better with Kwon he is the heart and soul of you ask me.



Give me two ends that average 6.5 a year. Give me a solid press corner. Give me anyone not named Conte (who, by my count, was sitting on his ass after getting blown up or whiffing six times today). That would give us a defense that can contend for December.

Our current group cannot.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:40 am

Pull Hargreaves from outside corner and give it to Ryan and give him help over the top. Then let Hargreaves and McClain battle it our for who sucks the worst at nickelback.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby Moozician » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:56 am

2 and 3.... and not looking good. Secondary allowed what, 13 straight completions by Palmer? 10 completions to Fitzgerald.... While we are not out of it, running for a playoff spot, we are nowhere NEAR the caliber of a playoff team. Dirk Koetter seems lost, to me.

That all being said, ad nauseum, the offense finally wakes up with the back up QB. It's obvious that JW still has problems finding check-down receivers; he's still "locked on" to the primary receiver. That might have worked for him at FSU, but it doesn't work at this level. Fitz doesn't seem to have that problem. We have shown that we DO have a potent offense (27 points in Q4) but still have problems with consistency. Our Offensive draft picks didn't seem to do much, maybe I missed it. The three receivers of the day were Evans, Brate, and Humphries.

We still have problems, but I'm proud that the Bucs didn't quit. I AM getting tired of not winning games that we should.

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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby Buc2 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:41 am

Of all the years to choose to go to, not 1, but 2 Bucs games. :(
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby MRM » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:42 am

This organization hasm't drafted a good CB since Talib. I know Hargreaves is young, but he does some head scratching things out there.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby Buc2 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:09 am

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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby BucaRican » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:43 am

Good thing is we are undefeated, in the division!
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:57 am

BucaRican wrote:Good thing is we are undefeated, in the division!


We are only 1 game back in the Loss column from everyone else in the NFC (other than the 5-1 Eagles). With Rodgers (possibly) out for the season in Green Bay the playoff picture is still wide open. The NFL is based on parity and there isn't much that separates 80% of the teams in the league this season. Good teams usually start to separate themselves around mid season and we'll find out who this Bucs team is in the next month, b/c right now I don't think Koetter even know who this team is other than widely inconsistent.

All's not lost, but we need to figure things out internally. It may be semantics, but there is difference between being a bad football team and just playing bad football. Right now it's the latter imo so I still have hope. But this team needs to do some soul searching quick and start playing some complimentary football. Let's start with the basics of stopping the run and running the football.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby BucaRican » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:01 am

DreadNaught wrote:
BucaRican wrote:Good thing is we are undefeated, in the division!


We are only 1 game back in the Loss column from everyone else in the NFC (other than the 5-1 Eagles). With Rodgers (possibly) out for the season in Green Bay the playoff picture is still wide open. The NFL is based on parity and there isn't much that separates 80% of the teams in the league this season. Good teams usually start to separate themselves around mid season and we'll find out who this Bucs team is in the next month, b/c right now I don't think Koetter even know who this team is other than widely inconsistent.

All's not lost, but we need to figure things out internally. It may be semantics, but there is difference between being a bad football team and just playing bad football. Right now it's the latter imo so I still have hope. But this team needs to do some soul searching quick and start playing some complimentary football. Let's start with the basics of stopping the run and running the football.

Coaching separates. As much as I like Koetter, he needs to give up the play calling. And he needs to be more involved in the overall game.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby Jason Bourne » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:07 am

We just need to want to ... the thing is this team is capable of a 5 game winning streak , they have shown it before . They just need to play with intensity all game . We had the same issues last year
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby DreadNaught » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:13 am

BucaRican wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
We are only 1 game back in the Loss column from everyone else in the NFC (other than the 5-1 Eagles). With Rodgers (possibly) out for the season in Green Bay the playoff picture is still wide open. The NFL is based on parity and there isn't much that separates 80% of the teams in the league this season. Good teams usually start to separate themselves around mid season and we'll find out who this Bucs team is in the next month, b/c right now I don't think Koetter even know who this team is other than widely inconsistent.

All's not lost, but we need to figure things out internally. It may be semantics, but there is difference between being a bad football team and just playing bad football. Right now it's the latter imo so I still have hope. But this team needs to do some soul searching quick and start playing some complimentary football. Let's start with the basics of stopping the run and running the football.

Coaching separates. As much as I like Koetter, he needs to give up the play calling. And he needs to be more involved in the overall game.


Hogwash!! Plenty of HC call plays, we're just searching for reasons right now. Hell, the Rams HC is going through puberty and literally doesn't even pay attention to the game when the team is on defense and they are 4-2 with an offense near tops in the NFL.

I get it, we're all frustrated that this talented team is playing so terrible, mostly due to being inconsistent in all 3 phases. But Koetter has called plays for 30 years and over a decade in the NFL while leading some the top 5 NFL offenses that had less talent than this one does. So I honestly don't think it's the plays being called. We need to make better decisions and execute better as team.

I'm not trying to absolve Koetter, as the HC it's his responsibility at the end of the day for the team to play up to their talent. But I just don't think him calling the plays is the problem. It certainly wasn't the reason our defense didn't show up in the 1st half yesterday.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby pewterpirates » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:24 am

Entering most seasons over the past 15 years, I've generally entered knowing the Bucs would suck. So when the suck actually happened, I wasn't pissed or sad or whatever. But, after the glimpses we showed last year, after the moves we made in the offseason, with it being the ("magical") third year for Jameis, etc, etc ... I entered this season with playoff expectations. And now I'm pissed I bought into the hype.

Different year, same crap ass Bucs.

The defense sucked.
Ryan freaking Fitzpatrick has a better deep ball than our franchise savior.
The coaching and playcalling is abysmal.

The Panthers lost to the Eagles. And the freaking Dolphins beat ATL at home. We should've taken advantage of that...
BUT...
We're right back in last place already.

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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby Doctor » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:42 am

DreadNaught wrote:
BucaRican wrote:Coaching separates. As much as I like Koetter, he needs to give up the play calling. And he needs to be more involved in the overall game.


Hogwash!! Plenty of HC call plays, we're just searching for reasons right now. Hell, the Rams HC is going through puberty and literally doesn't even pay attention to the game when the team is on defense and they are 4-2 with an offense near tops in the NFL.

I get it, we're all frustrated that this talented team is playing so terrible, mostly due to being inconsistent in all 3 phases. But Koetter has called plays for 30 years and over a decade in the NFL while leading some the top 5 NFL offenses that had less talent than this one does. So I honestly don't think it's the plays being called. We need to make better decisions and execute better as team.

I'm not trying to absolve Koetter, as the HC it's his responsibility at the end of the day for the team to play up to their talent. But I just don't think him calling the plays is the problem. It certainly wasn't the reason our defense didn't show up in the 1st half yesterday.


Bingo. DK has coached and play called for some top offenses. Heck, in four of the past six years his offenses have finished in the top 8. It's just easier to blame the play calling then the players because it gives fans false hope that all we have to do is change the play-caller and it's an instant fix. That's far more appealing than the reality that it's not an easy fix but a slow, painful fix of growing and developing a young offense and QB.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby Deuce » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:47 am

Deuce wrote:Cut to Week 12, Jameis injures his ankle, Fitz comes in and throws 3 TDs, no INTs, we win, QB controversy ensues (on this board, not in real life).





*Official reverse jinx post*


Dang, I thought I had called something like this happening in the Fitzpatrick signing thread. Turns out I was pretty far off.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby NYBF » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:59 am

deltbucs wrote:
Super K wrote:I've had a HORRIBLE football year thus far..

Son's team is 1-6 and he got hurt and missed last game (Friday)..

FSU is a **** show..

And now we have this/us..

2017 wasn't supposed to be like this man..

**** me sideways..

Football is cancelled


Good thing NBA is starting this week. LET'S GO MAGIC!


:cry:
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby DanTurksGhost » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:41 am

1. Fitz is a superior passer to Winston. Not a better QB overall, but clearly a better passer. His accuracy, ball placement, understanding of coverages, ability to look off defenses, as well as the catchability of this throws are a significant step up over Jameis. D-Jax may actually hope that Winston's shoulder injury will keep him out for a while. His frustration level with his #1 QB has GOT to be high.

2. VHIII stinks, on ice. He needs to get much better, very quickly. All we have as far as competency in the secondary at this point is Grimes.

3. The two areas that concerned me the most going into this season -- both lines, if you recall -- are, indeed, significant problem areas for this team. McCoy's prime is being completely wasted because there's simply NOTHING else around him that scares anyone. We can't get to the QB on a regular basis, and therefore we are tied for third WORST in the NFL in opposing QB's passer rating. We're also third WORST in third down defense. Again, due primarily to the lack of a credible, consistent pass rush. Drew Brees is probably going to throw for a combined 1,000 yards against us.

4. Coaching is suspect, on many fronts. Week after week I'm losing more and more confidence in Koetter and company. Ditto for Jason Licht. No one in the coaching staff or the front office has any right to feel at all comfortable about their jobs as far as I'm concerned.

5. I had set my expected win total for this season at 8... but I'm probably going to have to adjust that down.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby Deuce » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:32 am

DanTurksGhost wrote:1. Fitz is a superior passer to Winston. Not a better QB overall, but clearly a better passer. His accuracy, ball placement, understanding of coverages, ability to look off defenses, as well as the catchability of this throws are a significant step up over Jameis. D-Jax may actually hope that Winston's shoulder injury will keep him out for a while. His frustration level with his #1 QB has GOT to be high.

2. VHIII stinks, on ice. He needs to get much better, very quickly. All we have as far as competency in the secondary at this point is Grimes.

3. The two areas that concerned me the most going into this season -- both lines, if you recall -- are, indeed, significant problem areas for this team. McCoy's prime is being completely wasted because there's simply NOTHING else around him that scares anyone. We can't get to the QB on a regular basis, and therefore we are tied for third WORST in the NFL in opposing QB's passer rating. We're also third WORST in third down defense. Again, due primarily to the lack of a credible, consistent pass rush. Drew Brees is probably going to throw for a combined 1,000 yards against us.

4. Coaching is suspect, on many fronts. Week after week I'm losing more and more confidence in Koetter and company. Ditto for Jason Licht. No one in the coaching staff or the front office has any right to feel at all comfortable about their jobs as far as I'm concerned.

5. I had set my expected win total for this season at 8... but I'm probably going to have to adjust that down.


Have to disagree with you there. Fitz had a few great passes- the TD to Evans, the TD to Brate. But he had a lot of WTF passes- the 2 pt conversion to Evans, the one on the goal line to Evans that was knocked down by Peterson, the INT on the 1 yard line, even the TD to Desean was a horrible throw (all of these are just off the top of my head).

The thing I learned about Fitz playing was that this offense is not meant to get the ball out quick. It seemed like he tried a bunch of times and the routes just weren't there. It seems that our QB position is forced to make 10-15 yard throws, often in traffic, and put up 50/50 balls for our playmakers. Oh, and throw a screen to Sims on 3rd and 15.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby ComingThisFall » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:38 am

Fitz was able to get some quick passes out but he had to move around and contort his body and arm angles to do so.

And yeah, he has His moments where he throws crazy ass underhand ducks that would make Josh McKown proud
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby Heisenberg » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:50 am

Mountaineer Buc wrote:
Onthebrink wrote:Fitz showed that you can move the ball against a prevent defense. Especially when the other team is up by 30 points. He also threw a beautiful int. on the 1 yard line.

Bullshit.

This isn't Madden. Fitz made plays including a beautiful long ball touchdown pass to Evans. Saying that was all garbage time serves no other purpose but to defend our starting quarterback who continues to not take what the defense gives him.

Prevent my ass.

Didn't Jameis do something similar against the pats? And gets discredited cause it'd garbage time against prevent? But a journeyman QB gets credit? Lmao.. Fitz had that nice td I'll give him that. Most everything else was a result of soft prevent defenses and good catching.

Playcalling is the main issue.. We waste too many downs on pointless deep routes. DK still hasn't realized djax is better with slants and YAC routes than 30 yard outs. Hes still the most predictable play caller. Incomplete deep pass, run, short gain/incomplete, punt. No plays to get QB in rhythm, no plays to set up runs, not using play action like we should be. All this talent and an incompetent oc wasting it away.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby Swashy » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:56 am

Inexcusable performance. I'm so damn lucky I missed this game
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby Doctor » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:59 am

The main difference between Fitz and Winston is he has twelve years in this league to Winston's two. He literally has thousands of defensive reads and pass attempts under his belt more than Winston.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby Heisenberg » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:01 pm

Doctor wrote:The main difference between Fitz and Winston is he has twelve years in this league to Winston's two. He literally has thousands of defensive reads and pass attempts under his belt more than Winston.

Which is why I was glad we signed him, so Winston could learn a few things. Winston staring down receivers and not looking safeties off is something he really needs to study and learn
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby Doctor » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:03 pm

Heisenberg wrote:
Doctor wrote:The main difference between Fitz and Winston is he has twelve years in this league to Winston's two. He literally has thousands of defensive reads and pass attempts under his belt more than Winston.

Which is why I was glad we signed him, so Winston could learn a few things. Winston staring down receivers and not looking safeties off is something he really needs to study and learn

Among many things, yes. He'll get there. Not overnight, but he'll get there.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby deltbucs » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:22 pm

NYBF wrote:
deltbucs wrote:Football is cancelled


Good thing NBA is starting this week. LET'S GO MAGIC!


:cry:

HA! The NBA is a terrible product these days. It's not even worth watching unless you're a fan of one of about 3 teams...and especially not if you're a fan of a team like the magic. I seriously quit watching NBA and only watch college hoops.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby DanTurksGhost » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:25 pm

Doctor wrote:He'll get there. Not overnight, but he'll get there.


I'm not so sure. I think he'll get marginally better. Favre was a career 62% passer, but his second, third and fourth seasons were all over 66% and up.
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Re: Rapid Reactions Week 6 38-33 Loss @ Arizona

Postby Swashy » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:29 pm

NYBF wrote:
deltbucs wrote:Football is cancelled


Good thing NBA is starting this week. LET'S GO MAGIC!


:cry:


The drive for 35 baby!!! WE BELIEVE!
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