Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:22 pm

IchabodCrane84 wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:Like Grimes wouldnt have looked bad.


No, but at least he'd have someone defending him on Twitter.



True, and surprisingly not everyone has Smith walking the plank. Smith has made some really good tackles - yeah he's missed a few - but I think he will get better.

If the defense gets better around him, I think he would too.
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby mdb1958 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:34 pm

Most of Grimes career has been on the side he is on now, Atl played him some on both sides.
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby DanTurksGhost » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:22 pm

mdb1958 wrote:True, and surprisingly not everyone has Smith walking the plank. Smith has made some really good tackles - yeah he's missed a few - but I think he will get better.

If the defense gets better around him, I think he would too.


Ryan Smith has really improved. Watching him in preseason scared the life out of me. But he really seems to be putting it together. Hopefully he'll continue that ascent.
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby Doctor » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:46 pm

We need to go out and pay a guy like DeMarcus Lawrence in Dallas to come over here.
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby Caradoc » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:48 pm

We definitely need to pay for an edge rusher, as well as draft one in the first. I'd be all for drafting two, but I think an established one is needed and we will need to draft a corner early too. But nobody is going to thrive with this defensive staff. It's like Smith looked at Lovies passive to the point of absurdity scheme and went "hold my beer..."
Last edited by Caradoc on Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby DanTurksGhost » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:51 pm

Caradoc wrote:We definitely need to pay for an edge rusher, as well as draft one in the first. I'd be all for drafting two, but I think an established one is needed and we will need to draft a corner early too.


Yep, I agree. Fix the DL and fix a lot of other problems with this defense. Go back to 2001/2002 and look at how things got really good when the Bucs added Rice and Spires.
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby Sammich » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:26 pm

DanTurksGhost wrote:
Caradoc wrote:We definitely need to pay for an edge rusher, as well as draft one in the first. I'd be all for drafting two, but I think an established one is needed and we will need to draft a corner early too.


Yep, I agree. Fix the DL and fix a lot of other problems with this defense. Go back to 2001/2002 and look at how things got really good when the Bucs added Rice and Spires.


Yup. There were a handful of us screaming all offseason to fix the damn lines. This team is built like a video game team instead of an NFL team. When the opposing QB can have tea before he throws the ball it isn't going to be pretty. When your own running back has nowhere to go and gets consistently hit in the backfield it isn't going to be pretty.

Which is a big part of why Mikw Smith is frustrating me so much this year. I know he's a good coach. I know that he knows his ****. Why is he insisting on spending so much time in a soft zone when his front 4 cannot get pressure? Why do we not adjust? Against the Falcons you must double Julio or pressure Ryan (preferably both) and we did neither. I just don't get it.
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby PrimeMinister » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:49 pm

Cheb wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:
This is where I am. This time last year everyone was on the Mike Smith train. Many of you were afraid he'd leave to become a head coach. Now all of a sudden those same people who last year LOVED THE SAME SCHEME think he's a bum who can't coach and want him axed. This is why I go off on a tangent so much. You Casuals change POVs more often than a newborn needs it's diaper changed. You pretend to know what you're talking about when in reality you don't. You're just going with the flow trying to appear smart. Like Alpha said here, Mike Smith didn't forget how to coach all of a sudden. It's not always the coaches fault, which is something casuals believe 9 times out of 10. Talent is an obvious problem. Especially where it matters, up front. You lose the LOS you lose games. Simple as that. We don't have the talent up front to compete week after week. That can't be debated. We have fan favorites. Some nice role players. But lack real consistency. Now I'll say maybe that's on the coaches for not developing these guys. But still that requires talent. Look at OJ Howard, Justin Evans, Kendall Beckwith. All 3 have improved since they got here in May as one would expect given their draft status. But Ryan Smith, Ryan Russell and Will Clarke have no business playing at this point. Russell and Clarke are JAGS. Smith has had some good moments but more bad ones. And given that he's an FCS prospect he needs more time to develop his skills. And even still he shouldn't be more than a backup. We're forced to play these guys extensively. It's no surprise we are where we are. Coaching isn't the biggest problem.


I just went back and watched every catch that Julio Jones made against us. He was never double teamed. He got a free release on every catch, and every incompletion as well. Even when our corner lined up tight in press coverage, they didn't get a hand on him, just immediately bailed. Julio was running free all day.

Now, is that an issue with execution or with coaching? I'd say the latter.

It is a coaching decision not to try to take away the best player on the other team. Every other team in the league doubles Julio to the point of being boring, either doubling him throughout the game or failing that, they double him in the red zone on damn near every snap. The only team that doesn't double him every snap are the Cardinals, who match up Patrick Peterson on him one-on-one throughout the game. I would post links to sources, but it's a quick google search away. There are reams of evidence about this phenomenon.

It's a coaching decision not to slide your safeties over to his direction. It's a coaching decision to tell your corners to have nine to twelve yard cushions on him. It's a coaching decision not to call bracket coverage on the dude who is literally the best player on the other team.

It is a coaching decision not to matchup your cornerbacks or shift out of your coverage shell, allowing Julio to get away from our best cover man (Grimes) by just lining him up on the left side of the field, or by avoiding our second best cover man (Ryan Smith) by placing Julio in the slot on the left. It's simple as **** to get Julio on our shittiest DBs, and the Falcons did it with regularity. Look at Julio's big catches. The first TD from Sanu? Slot on the left, untouched by Robert McClain. The TD from Ryan? Untouched by Ryan Smith, one-on-one on the outside.

Gerald McCoy is arguably the best player on our team. So what did the Falcons do? They doubled him every snap, forcing our other defenders to beat them. This led to McCoy being effectively neutralized, and Ryan was only hit three times on 35 dropbacks. Doubling a team's best player is smart.

I coach in a very competitive conference in California. There are scholarship players every year that we play against, three and four and five star recruits who will be playing on Saturdays definitely and Sundays maybe. You know what we do? We sell out to stop the studs. Sure, your passing game may be better than their average against us, but your four star running back playing in the Pac-12 next year isn't hanging up his normal 200 rushing yards per game. The reason we do that is because if you don't stop the studs, then you aren't taking away a team's best option. And you will lose. Badly.

Julio Jones is the best player on the Falcons. They were without their top running back. He had the most yards, catches, targets, and yards per catch on their team by healthy margins. Anyone with half a brain can say that their offense would be running through him. We could devote a safety to help deal with their best receiver, thereby forcing the rest of the Falcons to beat us. That's what smart teams do. ****, EVERY OTHER TEAM BUT ONE IN THE NFL DOES THIS! Instead, we let Ryan Smith get embarrassed on the outside all by his lonesome, and let Julio run free every damn snap. And during the game, when Ryan didn't even go through a read progression, often just staring down Julio Jones on every completion, we didn't make an adjustment to get more help on the guy who is singlehandedly beating us.

Now, is it Ryan Smith's fault that he got embarrassed consistently by Julio ****ing Jones every snap? I wouldn't say so. We did not put him in a position to succeed.

I'm sorry to ramble, but that was a horrible gameplan, and someone should be tarred and feathered for it.


This is the indictment that should get Smith fired.
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby Mex-Buc » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:58 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:
Cheb wrote:
I just went back and watched every catch that Julio Jones made against us. He was never double teamed. He got a free release on every catch, and every incompletion as well. Even when our corner lined up tight in press coverage, they didn't get a hand on him, just immediately bailed. Julio was running free all day.

Now, is that an issue with execution or with coaching? I'd say the latter.

It is a coaching decision not to try to take away the best player on the other team. Every other team in the league doubles Julio to the point of being boring, either doubling him throughout the game or failing that, they double him in the red zone on damn near every snap. The only team that doesn't double him every snap are the Cardinals, who match up Patrick Peterson on him one-on-one throughout the game. I would post links to sources, but it's a quick google search away. There are reams of evidence about this phenomenon.

It's a coaching decision not to slide your safeties over to his direction. It's a coaching decision to tell your corners to have nine to twelve yard cushions on him. It's a coaching decision not to call bracket coverage on the dude who is literally the best player on the other team.

It is a coaching decision not to matchup your cornerbacks or shift out of your coverage shell, allowing Julio to get away from our best cover man (Grimes) by just lining him up on the left side of the field, or by avoiding our second best cover man (Ryan Smith) by placing Julio in the slot on the left. It's simple as **** to get Julio on our shittiest DBs, and the Falcons did it with regularity. Look at Julio's big catches. The first TD from Sanu? Slot on the left, untouched by Robert McClain. The TD from Ryan? Untouched by Ryan Smith, one-on-one on the outside.

Gerald McCoy is arguably the best player on our team. So what did the Falcons do? They doubled him every snap, forcing our other defenders to beat them. This led to McCoy being effectively neutralized, and Ryan was only hit three times on 35 dropbacks. Doubling a team's best player is smart.

I coach in a very competitive conference in California. There are scholarship players every year that we play against, three and four and five star recruits who will be playing on Saturdays definitely and Sundays maybe. You know what we do? We sell out to stop the studs. Sure, your passing game may be better than their average against us, but your four star running back playing in the Pac-12 next year isn't hanging up his normal 200 rushing yards per game. The reason we do that is because if you don't stop the studs, then you aren't taking away a team's best option. And you will lose. Badly.

Julio Jones is the best player on the Falcons. They were without their top running back. He had the most yards, catches, targets, and yards per catch on their team by healthy margins. Anyone with half a brain can say that their offense would be running through him. We could devote a safety to help deal with their best receiver, thereby forcing the rest of the Falcons to beat us. That's what smart teams do. ****, EVERY OTHER TEAM BUT ONE IN THE NFL DOES THIS! Instead, we let Ryan Smith get embarrassed on the outside all by his lonesome, and let Julio run free every damn snap. And during the game, when Ryan didn't even go through a read progression, often just staring down Julio Jones on every completion, we didn't make an adjustment to get more help on the guy who is singlehandedly beating us.

Now, is it Ryan Smith's fault that he got embarrassed consistently by Julio ****ing Jones every snap? I wouldn't say so. We did not put him in a position to succeed.

I'm sorry to ramble, but that was a horrible gameplan, and someone should be tarred and feathered for it.


This is the indictment that should get Smith fired.


Exactly, just look a the Patriots every god damn game, they take away your best player.. they always do that, and what are the results? 17 straight years with a Winning record..

Mike Smith we all know his soft zone scheme doesn't work, but for Koetter not even tell him something about stopping Julio Jones? That's ridiculous..

That's my main reason on why they should be fired this season, how the **** do you let 1 player gain 250 yds of offense? HOW???? :banghead:
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:01 pm

People keep saying this soft zone scheme doesn't work yet they had no problems with it last year when it did work......Did the league change that much in 12 months?
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby Mex-Buc » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:03 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:People keep saying this soft zone scheme doesn't work yet they had no problems with it last year when it did work......Did the league change that much in 12 months?


Did it work on Sunday?
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:16 pm

Mex-Buc wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:People keep saying this soft zone scheme doesn't work yet they had no problems with it last year when it did work......Did the league change that much in 12 months?


Did it work on Sunday?


Brent Grimes and Ryan smith and Justin Evans on the coverage. Casuals act as if talent and skill doesn't matter. It's not ALWAYS on the coaches or the scheme. It makes conversation and dialogue impossible because instead of actual discussion it's more of an educating moment due to your lack of football knowledge.
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby Mex-Buc » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:28 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Mex-Buc wrote:
Did it work on Sunday?


Brent Grimes and Ryan smith and Justin Evans on the coverage. Casuals act as if talent and skill doesn't matter. It's not ALWAYS on the coaches or the scheme. It makes conversation and dialogue impossible because instead of actual discussion it's more of an educating moment due to your lack of football knowledge.


Again with the useless word you say for every ****ing discussion.. "Casual"..

Don't you think Grimes and Evans could have doubled him up all game, and just let Ryan beat you with something else? Just the same way they did with McCoy?

It gives you a better chance at winning the game to just let Julio (Their best player) beat you for 250 yds, you idiot, I know scheme works better when you have the talent to make it work, but when you don't which is clear, you gotta adjust to what you have and gameplan accordingly to what your strengths are.. it's really not difficult, at least you have to try and take away their best player while you adjust.
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby RedLeader » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:59 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Mex-Buc wrote:
Did it work on Sunday?


Brent Grimes and Ryan smith and Justin Evans on the coverage. Casuals act as if talent and skill doesn't matter. It's not ALWAYS on the coaches or the scheme. It makes conversation and dialogue impossible because instead of actual discussion it's more of an educating moment due to your lack of football knowledge.


Haha. This made me laugh.


Such is the cross of a football genius, eh Bootzie!
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby Super K » Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:27 pm

To Bootz's point, it damn near worked...

It was what, 27-20, we were driving to tie the the game and we couldn't convert a 3rd and 2 and then a 4th and 1...which they then turned into 7 more..

Now, I'm not saying I agree with or like the concept, cause I ****ing hate that we let Julio make us look like his little bitch all day long...but if we had better/more experienced (in the case of Smith and Evans) out there maybe things would have been different..

I would still hate the scheme however..

And yes, I hated it last year too..
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby DanTurksGhost » Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:27 pm

RedLeader wrote:Such is the cross of a football genius, eh Bootzie!


It's gotten completely tedious.
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby PetePierson » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:41 pm

I doubt Puss&Bootz will reply seriously; but will ask anyway:

To Cheb's point; did M. Smith call to double Julio and players just decided to ignore it?
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby Sammich » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:44 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Mex-Buc wrote:
Did it work on Sunday?


Brent Grimes and Ryan smith and Justin Evans on the coverage. Casuals act as if talent and skill doesn't matter. It's not ALWAYS on the coaches or the scheme. It makes conversation and dialogue impossible because instead of actual discussion it's more of an educating moment due to your lack of football knowledge.


You're talking in circles. The point is that we are running a scheme we lack the talent to execute. That doesn't mean the scheme doesn't work- just that it doesn't work for us.

As far as blaming the coaches I'm pretty sure making a young and inexperienced corner cover Julio Jones 1v1 with no pass rush falls squarely on the coaches unless you think somebody else was calling the plays.
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby PetePierson » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:49 pm

Sammich wrote:
You're talking in circles. The point is that we are running a scheme we lack the talent to execute. That doesn't mean the scheme doesn't work- just that it doesn't work for us.

As far as blaming the coaches I'm pretty sure making a young and inexperienced corner cover Julio Jones 1v1 with no pass rush falls squarely on the coaches unless you think somebody else was calling the plays.


But everyone else is a casual and trying to sound smart.

How is Puss&Bootz not a GM by now?
Can even deliver a sweet fade & cut in between scouting!
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:04 pm

Its all about playing the game better than the team your playing. The NFL is turning into a turnstile, injuries, health, dedication! To me an old timer, even these so called stars, many will hardly even be remembered. Its getting harder and harder to see talent even last to the 2nd contract, that means you make what you got work as best as you can. Including getting them to play however you want them to play.
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:15 pm

If our d-line was asked about all the players they face? Whose better you or ???

You would get! He's better He's better He's better He's better He's better He's better He's better He's better Um maybe me...


Take all the guards, centers, and tackles and ask them (our d-line) who can you beat in three seconds, honesty will tell you the list would be very short. And yes that includes gap shooter.
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby Alpha » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:29 am

Cheb...MJ...DTG...I appreciate all of your knowledgeable opinions.

That said...you can't make chicken salad out of chicken **** (as we say down south).

I've never coached/played defense for a single day. But philosophically, I agree with all of you. Bottom line: You don't let their best (offensive) player beat you. And that's EXACTLY what we did.

That said...Mike Smith is dealing with hot garbage. He is, in fact, trying to make chicken salad out of chicken ****. And he's (not surprisingly)...failing. NO D-linemen that can (consistently) pressure the QB, BOBBT McClain is a STARTING CB. WTF? No Ayers (for that game). Chris Baker has taken the money and that's about it. Our defense needs TALENT. NFL caliber talent. Not the scrubs we have playing currently.

Give him the tools and he'll succeed. Don't...and he'll fail. Just like ANY other coach.
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby MJW » Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:30 am

Alpha wrote:Cheb...MJ...DTG...I appreciate all of your knowledgeable opinions.

That said...you can't make chicken salad out of chicken **** (as we say down south).

I've never coached/played defense for a single day. But philosophically, I agree with all of you. Bottom line: You don't let their best (offensive) player beat you. And that's EXACTLY what we did.

That said...Mike Smith is dealing with hot garbage. He is, in fact, trying to make chicken salad out of chicken ****. And he's (not surprisingly)...failing. NO D-linemen that can (consistently) pressure the QB, BOBBT McClain is a STARTING CB. WTF? No Ayers (for that game). Chris Baker has taken the money and that's about it. Our defense needs TALENT. NFL caliber talent. Not the scrubs we have playing currently.

Give him the tools and he'll succeed. Don't...and he'll fail. Just like ANY other coach.


This is reasonable.

We just went to battle with William Gholston and Darryl Tapp/Will Clarke as our edge rushers, two rookies starting in our back seven, and three regular guys in our starting defense, along with McCoy (who they triple-teamed) and a linebacking group that didn't have a good game. It's pretty unreasonable to expect any DC to make hay in that scenario.

But watching Julio Jones, play after play, get an eight yard cushion and play catch with Matt Ryan against overmatched corners getting no help...it's tough not to be a critic all the same. Koetter said Smith tried "14" different coverages against Julio, but they all looked a lot like that to me.
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Re: Mike Smith is a ****ing disgrace

Postby mdb1958 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:31 am

No one remembers me saying - everybody is reloading on defense and we are going to be left behind.
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