**1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:48 am

Fair enough. But your earlier comment on how Godwin hasn't accomplished anything on an NFL field didn't seem to jive with that explanation. Which if I understand correctly is based on draft position (1st vs 3rd) and that there is a significant difference between being 1st or 2nd team (Howard-Stocker) as opposed to 2nd-3rd team (Martino-Godwin).

It will all wash out in the end. Godwin has been outstanding thus far and that isn't a knock on Howard who has been good also. Both guys will be getting on the field for us this season much more than either Stocker or Martino (barring injury).
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:02 am

DreadNaught wrote:Fair enough. But your earlier comment on how Godwin hasn't accomplished anything on an NFL field didn't seem to jive with that explanation. Which if I understand correctly is based on draft position (1st vs 3rd) and that there is a significant difference between being 1st or 2nd team (Howard-Stocker) as opposed to 2nd-3rd team (Martino-Godwin).

It will all wash out in the end. Godwin has been outstanding thus far and that isn't a knock on Howard who has been good also. Both guys will be getting on the field for us this season much more than either Stocker or Martino (barring injury).


That's true. But Howard has no one in front of him while Godwin has Evans, Jackson, and Humphries.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby Bucs N Beers » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:05 am

Coincidentally, both Howard and Godwin were beasting today. Howard will be a starter as listed, Godwin will be behind Mike and DJax but has made a damn fine point to get a lot of time on the field. Both guys are running routes that are near impossible to cover, both guys are above average blockers.

EDIT: How does a Safety/LB cover this route by Howard? https://twitter.com/PewterReport/status ... 2530614272

I think in the long run, Godwin is going to end up being the #1/#2 WR from this draft class (competing with Corey Davis).
For the record - WR's drafted ahead of him:
Mike Williams
Corey Davis
John Ross
JuJu SS
Curtis Samuel
Dede Westbrook
ArDarius Stewart
Cooper Kupp
Zay Jones
Taywan Taylor

2nd EDIT: Yes, I know it's way too early to go there.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:11 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:Fair enough. But your earlier comment on how Godwin hasn't accomplished anything on an NFL field didn't seem to jive with that explanation. Which if I understand correctly is based on draft position (1st vs 3rd) and that there is a significant difference between being 1st or 2nd team (Howard-Stocker) as opposed to 2nd-3rd team (Martino-Godwin).

It will all wash out in the end. Godwin has been outstanding thus far and that isn't a knock on Howard who has been good also. Both guys will be getting on the field for us this season much more than either Stocker or Martino (barring injury).


That's true. But Howard has no one in front of him while Godwin has Evans, Jackson, and Humphries.



Once they get into play packages he will get plenty of plays. It wouldnt surprise me if they give him plays from all three guys.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:15 am

Bucs N Beers wrote:Coincidentally, both Howard and Godwin were beasting today. Howard will be a starter as listed, Godwin will be behind Mike and DJax but has made a damn fine point to get a lot of time on the field. Both guys are running routes that are near impossible to cover, both guys are above average blockers.

EDIT: How does a Safety/LB cover this route by Howard? https://twitter.com/PewterReport/status ... 2530614272

I think in the long run, Godwin is going to end up being the #1/#2 WR from this draft class (competing with Corey Davis).
For the record - WR's drafted ahead of him:
Mike Williams
Corey Davis
John Ross
JuJu SS
Curtis Samuel
Dede Westbrook
ArDarius Stewart
Cooper Kupp
Zay Jones
Taywan Taylor

2nd EDIT: Yes, I know it's way too early to go there.


Impressive by Howard, but Tandy wasn't bad at all here. He recovered well and almost made a play on the ball. In fact Saturday they ran a similar play in 7 on 7s and Tandy made the play on the ball.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:16 am



They don't. A well thrown/accurate ball there is a TD every time. One of the thing you notice at camp is the QBs intentionally throwing the ball high on those type of routes in the back of the end zone. It's a TD or incompletion. When you have a 6'6" TE who is as athletic as OJ vs a 6' LB/SS it's almost like playing catch.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:25 am

I think we ought took keep a watchful eye out for those 2 rookie safeties on the Patriots - save a spot on our practice squad.

David Jones and Jason Thompson!
Last edited by mdb1958 on Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:55 am

19 seconds.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby Swashy » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:05 pm

Bucs N Beers wrote:How does a Safety/LB cover this route by Howard? https://twitter.com/PewterReport/status ... 2530614272


You don't. OJ is a FREAK and defending a player like that is physically impossible to a degree.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:07 pm

Swashy wrote:
Bucs N Beers wrote:How does a Safety/LB cover this route by Howard? https://twitter.com/PewterReport/status ... 2530614272


You don't. OJ is a FREAK and defending a player like that is physically impossible to a degree.

It's gonna be fun when defences are overly focused on Evans and Djax, and Howard gets left alone running across the middle and turns the corner for a TD.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby Swashy » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:39 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Swashy wrote:
You don't. OJ is a FREAK and defending a player like that is physically impossible to a degree.

It's gonna be fun when defences are overly focused on Evans and Djax, and Howard gets left alone running across the middle and turns the corner for a TD.


On paper yeah that should be how things play out. But it's going to depend on how Koetter wants Howard utilized. We have reason to be optimistic because Tony Gonzalez continued his stellar career when Koetter was the Falcon's OC and it shows that if you have talent at TE then Koetter will use you. We all know Howard is NOT Tony Gonzalez but we can at least look back upon Koetter's track record with the players he had and trust he has the common sense to use the hell out of a truly great player. We don't know if Howard will be great but that track record shows us what we can expect if he DOES become great. TBH I think it's likely it's that coach may want to have Howard do a lot of blocking and it's entirely possible that the only time he gets a ball thrown his way is in the scenario you just gave.

But I've been known to be wrong before and for all I know Koetter is pulling Howard aside saying he wants him to be our Jimmy Graham and Greg Olsen and we're counting on him to be at his best on every down. But for now all we can objectively prove is that Howard has the size to do that and we're going to have to wait until Howard hits the field on opening night to see what he's truly capable of.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:50 pm

Between Evans, Djax, Brate, and Howard we should have options. Having multiple weapons like that forces the defense to play honest in pass coverage. That was NOT the case last year when teams would basically bracket Evans with a single high safety shaded to his side and none of the receivers could beat m2m coverage.

With Howard and DJax I doubt we see nearly as much m2m coverage since both of those guys are tough match-ups m2m without help.

Which mean more zone looks where Evans and even guys like Brate and Hump will be much more effective in finding space/windows for Jameis.

If we can run the ball with any kind of efficiency than we'll really be cooking with fire.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby Naismith » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:00 pm

PrimeMinister wrote:
Naismith wrote:Zero surprises and I think the current starters will be the starters come opening day, barring injuries and suspensions.


You expected Martino to be above Godwin?


Sorry, I meant of the starters.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:09 pm

real bucs fan wrote:19 seconds.



19 seconds?
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:15 pm

I also think in case we need WR's due to injury a lot of our guys that get cut will be available.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:45 pm

Howard is gonna have to prove himself as a receiver. I don't think he's going to get nearly as many chances early on as a receiver as we think. He'll stay in to block more often. That's why so much has been made about him being a blocker.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby DreadNaught » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:57 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Howard is gonna have to prove himself as a receiver. I don't think he's going to get nearly as many chances early on as a receiver as we think. He'll stay in to block more often. That's why so much has been made about him being a blocker.


I agree, although I don't what exactly "we" think in terms of targets for Howard. He's very talented but still has guys like Evans, DJax, Brate and Hump around him that will demand targets also. There is only one ball and around 25-30 attempts per game on average.

But early on I think you're absolutely correct and wouldn't imagine we see more than 2-3 catches a game from Howard. Maybe more of a focus in the red zone.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:17 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:Howard is gonna have to prove himself as a receiver. I don't think he's going to get nearly as many chances early on as a receiver as we think. He'll stay in to block more often. That's why so much has been made about him being a blocker.



He is going to block in the run game and the passing game, when he releases into a pass route they're going to hate him.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:20 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Bootz2004 wrote:Howard is gonna have to prove himself as a receiver. I don't think he's going to get nearly as many chances early on as a receiver as we think. He'll stay in to block more often. That's why so much has been made about him being a blocker.


I agree, although I don't what exactly "we" think in terms of targets for Howard. He's very talented but still has guys like Evans, DJax, Brate and Hump around him that will demand targets also. There is only one ball and around 25-30 attempts per game on average.

But early on I think you're absolutely correct and wouldn't imagine we see more than 2-3 catches a game from Howard. Maybe more of a focus in the red zone.


Yea I do think he will be featured more so in the red zone, which is what you see in that 1 on 1 play with him and Tandy. I wouldn't be all that surprised if he were to match the 8 TDs Brate put up last season. Winston loves throwing to TEs period and especially in the red zone.

It's interesting to note that every TD of Brate's career was inside of the red zone.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby Super K » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:37 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Bucs N Beers wrote:Coincidentally, both Howard and Godwin were beasting today. Howard will be a starter as listed, Godwin will be behind Mike and DJax but has made a damn fine point to get a lot of time on the field. Both guys are running routes that are near impossible to cover, both guys are above average blockers.

EDIT: How does a Safety/LB cover this route by Howard? https://twitter.com/PewterReport/status ... 2530614272

I think in the long run, Godwin is going to end up being the #1/#2 WR from this draft class (competing with Corey Davis).
For the record - WR's drafted ahead of him:
Mike Williams
Corey Davis
John Ross
JuJu SS
Curtis Samuel
Dede Westbrook
ArDarius Stewart
Cooper Kupp
Zay Jones
Taywan Taylor

2nd EDIT: Yes, I know it's way too early to go there.


Impressive by Howard, but Tandy wasn't bad at all here. He recovered well and almost made a play on the ball. In fact Saturday they ran a similar play in 7 on 7s and Tandy made the play on the ball.


Agreed..Howard is SUPPOSED to make that play and look that good in that drill..if he didn't I'd be worried (see the McC vs Kuechly vid)..

Tandy did recover well...
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:53 pm

If Auclair proves to be a better blocker than Stocker, I wouldnt mind seeing him and OJ some. The knowledge of Stocker wont mean much if he is on the bench, and I think thats what happened when we got Howard.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby real bucs fan » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:02 pm

mdb1958 wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:19 seconds.



19 seconds?

The amount of time Koetter spent on this depth chart.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby Bucs N Beers » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:44 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:

19 seconds?

The amount of time Koetter spent on this depth chart.


Hook. Line. Sinker.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby Nano » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:54 pm

mdb1958 wrote:If Auclair proves to be a better blocker than Stocker, I wouldnt mind seeing him and OJ some. The knowledge of Stocker wont mean much if he is on the bench, and I think thats what happened when we got Howard.

I imagine if Auclair proves to be a better blocker than Stocker, then Stocker is probably gone. He's younger, cheaper, and has more unknown potential at receiver(Compared to Stocker who we know sucks at catching the ball).
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:48 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
mdb1958 wrote:I wonder, if at times they have Hargreaves play the middle? That would get Ryan Smith on the field but who else would be a likely candidate? Somebody is going to have to start getting some reps on the outside for the future.


VH3 won't be playing nickel (middle?). The team tooled around with that last season in camp before putting him outside full time. I haven't seen VH3 line up inside this entire camp as he and Grimes are entrenched as our starting CBs on the outside just like last season.

Javion Elliott has looked great at Nickel this camp after playing very well there in place of JudeAB the final 4 games last season (alot of people overlook that). I'd bet Elliott will win that (nickel) job. JudeAB and Bobby Mac have looked good in camp also so there is good competition at nickel.

I commented the other day that I could see the team keeping 11 DBs (6CBs 5 Safeties) with the aforementioned 6 CBs along with Safety/ST Ace Josh Robinson and 4 safeties (Conte-Tandy-Evans-Wilcox).

That likely would mean only 5 LBs (which is what we've carried for better part of the last 2 seasons).



If Grimes retires, you cant go into next season with nobody that has taken reps. And I dont think bringing a vet to learn our system as a guaranteed starter is the answer either.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby mdb1958 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:46 pm

"I commented the other day that I could see the team keeping 11 DBs (6CBs 5 Safeties) with the aforementioned 6 CBs along with Safety/ST Ace Josh Robinson and 4 safeties (Conte-Tandy-Evans-Wilcox)."


I'll go with 5 and 5 with 2 more going on the practice squad.
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby Bootz2004 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:23 pm

Slight change to the chart today. They switched Peyton Barber & Jeremy McNichols
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Re: **1st Official Depth Chart of 2017**

Postby terrytate » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:05 am

Bootz2004 wrote:
DreadNaught wrote:
So you posted earlier that Godwin hasn't done anything in the NFL and thus was behind Martino. Yet here you justify how "easy" it is to put Howard in front of Stocker (who is a much more established NFL vet and lockerroom presence than Freddy Martino). By your own logic "what has Godwin Howard accomplished on an NFL field"? Are you saying that being 1st round pick justifies it for Howard?

I've seen Godwin line up in the slot plenty, but I've seen all WR line up everywhere so I don't how much stock I'd put in it. Godwin is usually in the slot when he's running with the second team. When he's in there with Evans and/or Djax he's been on the outside for the most part. Which is another reason Godwin should be ahead of Martino in that Godwin gets alot of reps with Jameis and the 1st team. Much more than Martino does. So the practice reps are not reflective of the depth chart either in that regard.

Come this season I think we'll see Evans, DJax, and obviously Hump all work out of the slot in 3-4 WR formations. Maybe even Godwin some also.

My point about him being behind Martino has ZERO to do with him playing the slot. I'm simply questioning the logic of having Howard over Stocker while having Martino over Godwin when Godwin has had the best camp of any of them day in and day out coupled with the fact Stocker is a more established player on this team.

I don't dispute Howard will/should start over Stocker and agree he should be there. But based on merit/performance and the same logic Godwin should also be over Martino.


1st round pick vs 3rd round pick. This is not a tough one. It happens annually all over the league. You think Howard and Godwin are equals? Of course you don't. With Martino/Godwin you're talking about the 4th/5th WR spots. Neither is vying for a starting spot. If Martino was our incumbent #2, perhaps you see Godwin ahead of him. But at this point they are both pretty much riding the bench. So at this point it doesn't matter. With Howard/Stocker you are talking about a starting spot. A starting spot that we've been lacking pretty much since ASJ was gone and likely before. Luke Stocker is a quality blocker but he's no threat as a receiver. He's in the final year of his contract and it's not even guaranteed. OJ Howard is a 1st round pick. The staff saw him as a valuable piece which is why they used a 1st round pick on him. What's the point of having him ride the bench for a mediocre player like Stocker? No use in wasting time there.



Bolded for emphasis.

Plus, according to rumors, Howard HAS been lighting it up. Lastly, Howard was drafted with the intention of being a major cog in this offense, both with blocking and receiving. Godwin was drafted to provide depth. Other than that, there are a million possible reasons. Maybe he doesn't know the full playbook well enough. Maybe they know he's a keeper and have the other guys ahead of him while they sort out who is staying and going. Who knows. As I said earlier, it's the first depth chart of camp, it really doesn't mean a lot.
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