The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:52 pm

I don't off anything to offer to current debate on cliffs or whatnot.

But I've been over half the practices in addition to going about the same number of them last year and in my observation Aguayo looks like a different kicker, he looks like a pro.

Last year in camp there were obvious warnings signs early on that Aguayo would struggle b/c he was terribly inconsistant from day 1. His regular season was much better than his camp if you can believe it. But we had just traded up to take him in round 2 so we were going to sink or swim with him last year.

Aguayo's job security is not guaranteed this year (it's actually cheaper to cut Aguayo instead of Folk iirc). He's been much more consistent this camp and right now has a slight edge in performance over Folk.

We'll see how it plays out the rest of camp and the preseason, but the main point I'm trying to make is that NONE of the warning signs we saw last year are there now.

Either way the competition at the position will serve the team best once the real games start and I trust Dirk/Licht to make the right choice. Licht has proven he's not afraid to move off a bad investment.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby NYBF » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:54 pm

JFC. This is your ****ing post.

real bucs fan wrote: if a kicker has an 8 year track record like Folk does they don't just suddenly fall off a cliff to Berto territory... usually an 8 year track record leads to a 10-15 year track record.


I asked, at least three times, how many point drop off constitutes falling off a cliff? Because with very little work, I found 2 who had a significant dropoff in FG% after year 8, which was the exact milestone you mentioned. I thought it was clear what I was asking when I quoted your exact post that I quoted above then asked:

Is a 20 point drop from year 8 to year 9 "falling off a cliff"?


How about 12?


Maybe this is still too confusing for you to understand.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:10 pm

NYBF wrote:JFC. This is your ****ing post.

real bucs fan wrote: if a kicker has an 8 year track record like Folk does they don't just suddenly fall off a cliff to Berto territory... usually an 8 year track record leads to a 10-15 year track record.


I asked, at least three times, how many point drop off constitutes falling off a cliff? Because with very little work, I found 2 who had a significant dropoff in FG% after year 8, which was the exact milestone you mentioned. I thought it was clear what I was asking when I quoted your exact post that I quoted above then asked:

Is a 20 point drop from year 8 to year 9 "falling off a cliff"?


How about 12?


Maybe this is still too confusing for you to understand.

Okay... well maybe once in a blue moon a kicker will fall off a cliff after a decade of good work, but it's definitely the outlier and not the norm. /discussion
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby NYBF » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:19 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
NYBF wrote:JFC. This is your ****ing post.



I asked, at least three times, how many point drop off constitutes falling off a cliff? Because with very little work, I found 2 who had a significant dropoff in FG% after year 8, which was the exact milestone you mentioned. I thought it was clear what I was asking when I quoted your exact post that I quoted above then asked:





Maybe this is still too confusing for you to understand.

Okay... well maybe once in a blue moon a kicker will fall off a cliff after a decade of good work, but it's definitely the outlier and not the norm. /discussion


NYBF wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:Do you have any evidence to support this claim? From where I'm sitting, generally speaking, if a kicker has an 8 year track record like Folk does they don't just suddenly fall off a cliff to Berto territory... usually an 8 year track record leads to a 10-15 year track record.


Do you have any evidence to support this claim?
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:22 pm

real bucs fan wrote:Do you have any evidence to support this claim? From where I'm sitting, generally speaking, if a kicker has an 8 year track record like Folk does they don't just suddenly fall off a cliff to Berto territory... usually an 8 year track record leads to a 10-15 year track record.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby NYBF » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:54 pm

So you don't. Got it.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:57 pm

It's common sense.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Patrick McIrish » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:08 pm

Not reading the thread, if Licht is here Aguayo is here. I'm sure everyone has it wrong AGAIN.

Dread - it's not about dollar and cents, not this decision. This trumps money, this is pride or what passes for it in Licht's world......

This is about burning the draft pick. This is about somehow trying to get some redemption if the kid has a good season.

Had another GM brought him in the kid would have been cut last year.

Thanks for coming to town, train leaves in an hour Folk.


PS - I see you RBF, you got an ass whipping on the way. :tappingfoot: :tappingfoot:
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby DreadNaught » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:21 pm

Patrick McIrish wrote:Not reading the thread, if Licht is here Aguayo is here. I'm sure everyone has it wrong AGAIN.

Dread - it's not about dollar and cents, not this decision. This trumps money, this is pride or what passes for it in Licht's world......

This is about burning the draft pick. This is about somehow trying to get some redemption if the kid has a good season.

Had another GM brought him in the kid would have been cut last year.


Spoken like true casual.. Licht released Anthony Collins & Michael Johnson after 1 season, ASJ (another 2nd round pick) after 2 seasons. He's shown repeatedly he's not afraid cut a player instead of double down on a bad investment (unlike you with your football takes, good call on Winston btw I'm still waiting for your list of Olinemen we should've traded down for that year).

Do you even follow the team? Or just shitpost about what you hear on the radio?
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Caradoc » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:59 pm

You've been here long enough to know you are arguing with the resident troll, right?
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby real bucs fan » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:26 pm

Patrick McIrish wrote:Not reading the thread, if Licht is here Aguayo is here. I'm sure everyone has it wrong AGAIN.

Dread - it's not about dollar and cents, not this decision. This trumps money, this is pride or what passes for it in Licht's world......

This is about burning the draft pick. This is about somehow trying to get some redemption if the kid has a good season.

Had another GM brought him in the kid would have been cut last year.

Thanks for coming to town, train leaves in an hour Folk.


PS - I see you RBF, you got an ass whipping on the way. :tappingfoot: :tappingfoot:

lol

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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Doctor » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:25 am

Caradoc wrote:You've been here long enough to know you are arguing with the resident troll, right?

Pat has a way of sucking the air out of any thread he comes into. Like he sits down and everyone else just gets up and leaves.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Buc2 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:58 am

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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Patrick McIrish » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:34 pm

DreadNaught wrote:
Patrick McIrish wrote:Not reading the thread, if Licht is here Aguayo is here. I'm sure everyone has it wrong AGAIN.

Dread - it's not about dollar and cents, not this decision. This trumps money, this is pride or what passes for it in Licht's world......

This is about burning the draft pick. This is about somehow trying to get some redemption if the kid has a good season.

Had another GM brought him in the kid would have been cut last year.


Spoken like true casual.. Licht released Anthony Collins & Michael Johnson after 1 season, ASJ (another 2nd round pick) after 2 seasons. He's shown repeatedly he's not afraid cut a player instead of double down on a bad investment (unlike you with your football takes, good call on Winston btw I'm still waiting for your list of Olinemen we should've traded down for that year).

Do you even follow the team? Or just shitpost about what you hear on the radio?


Dread, you better knock off that candy-assed casual stuff now that I'm back. I can see you been sparring with morons again.

1 - The thread isn't about Anthony Collins, Michael Johnson or ASJ.

2 - None of those are kickers.

3 - None of those were traded up to the 2nd round to draft.....

4 - And most importantly with none of those picks was he made to be the laughingstock of the NFL.

I assume a man without pride could never relate to someone who does possess it.

Seems easy enough though, I blindly think Aguayo stays. And I hate the kid. Nor have I been to camp or listened to the radio.

You have Folk because you go to every practice....

And most importantly because ASJ, Collins and Johnson aren't here, only makes sense Licht gets rid of Arguayo now. :shock: :shock:

I was going to ask if your reasoning skills had improved, that won't be necessary now.

We move on.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Patrick McIrish » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:40 pm

DreadNaught wrote:[.... good call on Winston btw I'm still waiting for your list of Olinemen we should've traded down for that year.

Do you even follow the team? Or just shitpost about what you hear on the radio?


Thank you. Props to admitting it, I had a lot of doubt anyone would.

I did go on a limb and say no playoffs the first 2 years, mediocrity, while all you guys had us making the playoffs.

Yes, I was alone and it was a tough call here on our board but I knew I was right.

Now you see why I stick to my opinions, I'm right an incredible amount of times.

As for OL I've already told you, we have no idea who would or would not have been available.

Depends on what sort of trade we got where we would be drafting.

Got it now? No, I didn't think so. Bootz or Kenda should be along soon, that's more your level of debate.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Caradoc » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:52 pm

real bucs fan wrote:
Caradoc wrote:
Even you don't believe that.

When have I ever not supported a Buc? Why would I want our kicker to fail? Nice try doe



LOL. If he wins the job you'll just grumble and say "you'll see I was right soon enough". And every time he misses a kick you'll go on another rant on why he sucks as a player and a pick. That's not "support"
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby The Outsider » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:15 pm

Caradoc wrote:
real bucs fan wrote:When have I ever not supported a Buc? Why would I want our kicker to fail? Nice try doe


LOL. If he wins the job you'll just grumble and say "you'll see I was right soon enough". And every time he misses a kick you'll go on another rant on why he sucks as a player and a pick. That's not "support"



He'll become the Aguayo equivalent of AgentOrange?
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:19 pm

Good stuff Clint
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Phantom Phenom » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:37 pm

Aguayo missed extra point....
Last edited by Phantom Phenom on Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Heidguy » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:38 pm

This ****ing guy! Smh
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Wesmon » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:41 pm

I think this missed extra point tonight is probably the nail in the coffin. Right out of the gate he is inside his own head again and I can't see the front office trusting him with the starting job even if he nails the rest of his pre-season kicks.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Bootz2004 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:14 pm

Wesmon wrote:I think this missed extra point tonight is probably the nail in the coffin. Right out of the gate he is inside his own head again and I can't see the front office trusting him with the starting job even if he nails the rest of his pre-season kicks.


Lmao! So even if he hits the rest of his kicks all the FO will focus on is the 1 missed XP in the 1st PS game. You can't make this stuff up. Casuals are such idiots. Dumbest thing I've read all off-season. **** coaching the guy and hoping for improvement. He missed a kick 4 weeks ago so we're cutting him now. LMAO!
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Wesmon » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:28 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Wesmon wrote:I think this missed extra point tonight is probably the nail in the coffin. Right out of the gate he is inside his own head again and I can't see the front office trusting him with the starting job even if he nails the rest of his pre-season kicks.


Lmao! So even if he hits the rest of his kicks all the FO will focus on is the 1 missed XP in the 1st PS game. You can't make this stuff up. Casuals are such idiots. Dumbest thing I've read all off-season. **** coaching the guy and hoping for improvement. He missed a kick 4 weeks ago so we're cutting him now. LMAO!


He has problems in games. You can't argue that. It doesn't matter how he looks in camp if you can't trust him when it is for real.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Phantom Phenom » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:40 pm

Tampa Bay Kicking
FG PCT LONG XP PTS
N. Folk 1/1 100.0 45 0/0 3
R. Aguayo 1/2 50.0 20 0/1 3
TEAM 2/3 66.7 45 0/1 6
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Jason Bourne » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:42 pm

Odious Aquao
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Caradoc » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:52 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Wesmon wrote:I think this missed extra point tonight is probably the nail in the coffin. Right out of the gate he is inside his own head again and I can't see the front office trusting him with the starting job even if he nails the rest of his pre-season kicks.


Lmao! So even if he hits the rest of his kicks all the FO will focus on is the 1 missed XP in the 1st PS game. You can't make this stuff up. Casuals are such idiots. Dumbest thing I've read all off-season. **** coaching the guy and hoping for improvement. He missed a kick 4 weeks ago so we're cutting him now. LMAO!



Like I said in the gameday thread, the kicking "competition" wasn't Aguayo vs Folk, it was Aguayo vs Aguayo. Aguayo just needed to show his head was right, they weren't going to cut him if it was a matter of both being good and then taking score to see who was better.

All they wanted to see was that Aguayo has fixed his mental issues. He had a whole offseason to do that. Tonight he showed he didn't fix it, he still has exactly the same issues plaguing him. They aren't going to expect him to fix it in the next 3 weeks after he failed to do so all offseason.
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Jason Bourne » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:57 pm

Dirk didn't sound too happy about it , wouldn't be surprised if he was cut tonight or tomorrow .
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Nano » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:23 pm

I find it funny that fans of other teams always want to blame the Bucs instead of Aguayo for his performance. Apparently we put too much pressure on him and mentally ruined a great kicker
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby real bucs fan » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:32 pm

Funny how Aguayo having a good practice meant he had rightened the ship, yet Folks decade long track record meant nothing...

I mean really, does anyone actually ****ing trust this guy to make kicks for us this year?
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Re: The Kicker Battle: Folk v Aguayo

Postby Go_Bucs! » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:33 pm

Bootz2004 wrote:
Wesmon wrote:I think this missed extra point tonight is probably the nail in the coffin. Right out of the gate he is inside his own head again and I can't see the front office trusting him with the starting job even if he nails the rest of his pre-season kicks.


Lmao! So even if he hits the rest of his kicks all the FO will focus on is the 1 missed XP in the 1st PS game. You can't make this stuff up. Casuals are such idiots. Dumbest thing I've read all off-season. **** coaching the guy and hoping for improvement. He missed a kick 4 weeks ago so we're cutting him now. LMAO!

Its not the first extra point missed by this smuck and it won't be the last, he's gone, congrats folk!
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